#citation 11

[audio-luddite]

What's it worth?

That is always an interesting question.

This week there are two adds on Audiomart for pretty much the same thing.

In BC there is a set of Harman Kardon Citation 11, 12, 14 deluxe models. That is an Amplifier, a Preamplifier, and a tuner of 1970's vintage all in lovely wooden cases. Perfect if you are into that Danish teak wood furniture vibe. Price $2150 CDN.

photo from CAM add.

In QC (the other end of the country) is a Citation 11, and 12 in the metal box finish for $ 940 CDN. That's about where I think that should be if in fine electrical shape. Cleaned and checked and working correctly.

photo from CAM add.

In the mid 1970s this was close to SOTA for a short time. The 11 was just a notch below the tube god of the day the ARC SP3a. Lots of people swoon to 70s stuff. It is very good no debate.

Sonically they are a good set. Is one worth double the other? The tuner is OK, but.... The value of these things is what someone is willing to pay for it.

The real difference is the boxes. Really nice wood and nice to look at. Goes well with "modern wood" furniture. Relatively high WAF.

So what does one do? Are the boxes worth 1k? The vendor spent some TLC on the wood. If you are into nice wood nuf said.

I think the guy could be bargained down on the pretty set. Shipping is a cost and these are heavy if you gotta UPS them.

I recall seeing a Citation 12 for $350 bucks a few years ago. There was an 11 for about the same money. $700 the set. I would like to have an 11 to go with my 12 to make the set. I could dump my SAE. I am not going to bid on these. If I were a collector I might, but I aint.

For comparison there is a Citation 25 preamp on the US Audiomart for $200 USD. 20 years newer. It is probably "better", but how much is it worth? It has some phunky phono settings which is not a bad thing. The tribe thinks well of that one.

HK in the day was high end but not the SOTA.

[audio-luddite]

Checking for Deals

I check online ads for old stuff.  I chuckle at what some people covet.  Latest thing was I was looking for pre-amplifiers.  I have one and I like it and it was a good one for its time.  I just saw another slightly newer from another company which is probably better. I am thinking about getting it.

I know what a complementary symmetry circuit is.  I know what FETs are. I know how tube circuits work, mostly. 

While investigating my options today I saw a number of really expensive tube preamps.  They were Dynaco PAS-3s.  Some were modified some were restored all were pretty expensive.  They are NOT worth it.  Back when they were discontinued I was around and getting into audio.  That model was replaced by two subsequent Dynacos one with transistors and the other with Gasp..., Op Amps.  Those were considered far superior to the obsolete Pas-3 by the main stream mags.

Back then there were two preamplifiers that were the ultimates.  One was a Harman Kardon Citation 11 transistor unit and the other was the Audio Research SP3a1 a vacuum tube machine. The favorite by a nose was the tuber. The PAS-3 was considered inferior to both by a wide margin.

Crazy that I saw a Citation 11 for half the price of a PAS 3.  I know which one is better.  It aint the tuber.

Eventually praise for those machines became complaint as the shine wore off. The SP3 is considered non-linear and inaccurate now.  That is because it always was but the flaws sounded nice like sugar in your coffee.

Some people think that the AR machine was a cost-no-object tweak of the Pas-3.  Massive regulated power supply and selected premium components and a slightly different circuit. Reality is more complex, but they all used common principles. Interesting that in the mega-buck wars it was superseded by many other devices many of them using transistors.  For a while AR tried to sell transistors, but the customers did not want them.  They are still in business and still make tube equipment.

I have a big problems with Tube electronics.  One is that they physically wear out and are expensive to maintain.  Another is a feature where you can buy different brands of tubes and get different sounds.  Nut jobs will actually have alternate sets of vacuum tubes to adjust the sound of their system to complement the music they listen too. If you want accuracy that should not be possible.  If you want sweet syrups in your music then fine.  I drink coffee black.

The unit I am thinking of is a transistor beast, from the 80s. I found the circuit diagram.  It is really cool and interesting in that they used a really different and more complex circuit in it.  I suspect it sounds better.  It has complementary symmetry and a couple of FETs.  It has a good reputation.

I am getting twitchy.