#codot q&e

[nygmaass]

I think you can only answer a Question once so I’ll just tag you, since it’s easier to split this into two parts. @kazissexy

“What would you consider to be the media that best represents Q&E? and add onto that- What do you think is essential when writing their characters?”

(This is reuploaded but slightly tweaked to hopefully answer this question by giving an example of bad writing, in reference to rogues!)

The first issue is the way the riddler treats Q&E within Rogues! Is weird and there’s no way the girls would take that treatment. they are working for Edward because it pays well, and they like to. They worked well together before Edward, and they even work for other criminals if he’s not available (Nightwing Vol 2 #1,000,000, 1998). They would not stick around for poor treatment. They are not meek in any way, and do not need to be portrayed as such. Even in Questions multiply the mystery (1995) when they are abandoned they come after the riddler with an axe.

Furthermore:

• ​Nina in particular is treated badly. She is an idiot to put it plainly, she lacks the intelligence or ability to keep up with Edward. It feels like her only purpose is comic relief not to play an actual role. It comes to a point where I’d question if she was necessary to include.

• There is definitely an imbalance in how Query and Echo are portrayed. They do not read as equals, Query is the more competent one, the one who Edward can prefer and trust while Echo is barely tolerable and frankly quite lazy. How does one forget to do their job?

• The only form of personality codotverse Q&E have is lusting over Jonathan and giggling like school girls, Which is disheartening to listen to, why are two strong women being reduced to that? It also feels a little wild considering Query is a lesbian (as seen in Robin Vol 2 #93, 2001) through her Labrys axe tattoo. The labrys axe was a commonly claimed symbol in 70’s among lesbians (though not now). “Send out the right signals so other women can cruise you” (The pink paper, 1995) in reference to wearing an Labrys axe. Echo isn’t confirmed, but likely to be queer to. They are clearly visually queer punk women taking inspiration from the lesbian BDSM scene in the 90's. Related reading would be Robinson, S. (2018) who writes about this new acceptance in the 80’s and 90’s of “sex radicalism”among lesbians creating a community to explore “a range of sexual practices and aesthetics more commonly linked with gay men, such as sexual sadomasochism (S/M) and leather.” If you want to know what this looks like Chloe Sherman has a book ("Renegades, San Francisco: The 1990s") of photos of lesbians that show the queer culture and fashion at this time (she has some of these photos on her instagram) it does not need to be explicitly said when it is ingrained in their design. They are queer women.

•Codoverse also feels like it ignores their comic book relationship. The way Edward and the girls interacts canonically isn’t strictly boss/worker, there’s quite a blur in boundaries. Edward both LIKES and fears the girls. They have a very physically close relationship that isn’t typical when you look at other characters and henchpeople (especially if you look at other henchpeople of the riddler's) he is fond of them, and they hold a fondness for him... They are affectionately close. Codotverse portrays a very different idea of their relationship that just feels cold and very black and white.

Both girls are neglected and poorly written

(This is more personal issues as well as alternative idea to fix it)

•I also find it odd that Nina is a gamer, which is really not the biggest deal, but there was more potential to build on what was already there. She’s a biker. We know that, we know her and Diedre are very bold and fun girls. They get enjoyment from the thrill of what they do. Query is shown to be trigger happy and it's clear they are both reckless. So why not have them as joyriders and adrenaline junkies because that’s who they are. I’d even like to see them in roller derby something that differs from comics but still is in line with their characters. Roller derby has a big punk and lesbian culture. It is fun, fast pace and has a positive relationship with sexuality of women which seems perfectly suited to them. If you want to read to get an idea of derby culture Jessica Stites (2008) is a good place to start.

Their personalities felt so tame and out of place in Rogues! for the characters they really are. They deserve to be portrayed better, they are interesting characters and sure comics do not delve deep enough into who they are as people (I wish there was more) but rogues! Does an awful job.

Sources l've referenced (outside of comics)

Jessica Stites (2008) Roller derby queens: short skirts, fishnets, and full contact. Inside the lesbian underground of the Los Angeles Derby Dolls. The Advocate

Robinson, S. (2018) "the new lesbian sexual revolution": Lesbian sex radicals in Sydney during the 1980s and 1990s, Australian Historical Studies, 49(4), pp. 441-456. doi:10.1080/1031461x.2018.1522654.

Sherman, C. (2023) Renegades: San Francisco: The 1990s. Berlin: Hatje Cantz.

The pink paper (1995) Queer icons: Labrys. London: Gay Times, Ltd.

[nygmaass]

What would you consider to be the media that best represents Q&E? and add onto that- What do you think is essential when writing their characters?

Omg yessss I love to talk about Q&E!! Unfortunately, there is limited media of them, so the only canon media you can really consume is comic books. So I’d say that is the best. I have a list of all Q&E appearances that I will actually upload onto my pinned post as well to make it easier to locate.

Within that the best comic books to read are:

•Detective Comics Annual #8 Questions multiply the mystery(1995)

•Detective Comics Vol 1 #705, #706, #707(1996)

•Robin Vol 2 #93, #94 (2001)

•Batman:The Riddler Factory DCAU #119 (1995) (This one follows Quiz and Query but is so good)

These are my personal favourites and I think the best representations of them.

When it comes to writing them, I have touched on this with a criticism of rogues! Which poorly represents the girls and I will reupload that separately to give an idea of what not to do.

I think the most important thing is their relationship with the Riddler. They are supportive roles to him. However, Edward does appreciate them (as much as he can anyway). The girls have a positive relationship with the riddler. Which brings me to my next point,

Sexualisation. DC Comics sexualise their female characters and Q&E are sexualised aesthetically. That’s why they’re called “BADD girls”, a joke on them drawn with larger breasts. HOWEVER, brilliantly enough, they are never treated differently for being sex workers. The riddler doesn’t look down on them for this (there are two comics where he doesn't talk about them very nicely, but that's later in their existence). Over all, the girls working at Pandora’s Box is never negative, and they are never treated poorly for it because the riddler A) doesn’t care, B) appreciates them, C) sees them as kindred spirits.

When it comes to personalities, there’s very limited information to draw on, but from the fact that the Riddler keeps them around often, we can tell they must be intelligent, otherwise they probably wouldn't last long. They are also willing to listen to the Riddler and have a sort of affectionate personal relationship with him where he's also happy to open up to them. Moving onto more solid aspects, the girls are both reckless and wild. With little distinction between them, Detective Comics #845 (2008) however, offers the Riddler specifically naming Query as impulsive, with a gun, which leads me to the conclusion that while both are reckless, Query is the more trigger-happy one out of the pair.

Sexuality, I also think, is very important to them even if it’s not mentioned. I will touch on this further when I share my critique of rogues! Query is canonically a lesbian echo is never confirmed but from context it’s clear she’s also queer it’s just not specifying her sexuality.

If you’re writing Q&E I think these are the main points to keep in mind and while DC doesn’t always offer much. Q&E do offer a surprisingly solid ground to work off of especially if you focus on on the 90’s being their prime, queer history + fetish community (because that history is linked) which then introduces us to the punk community and lesbian movements at the time. Given the time and right writer Q&E would be really interesting and realistically complex characters.