#cursedtrans

[lu-is-not-ok]

Thoughts on the new Jia candidate? They seem to be at the very least related to Iori, considering their execution of that one guy and the red snake skin wrapped around himself and his companion(?). Makes me wonder if Iori or her disciples are going to make a physical appearance in the Canto.

Alright, let me put things under the cut for the spoiler warning for literally the last two cutscenes in this Intervallo.

When it comes to Jia Qiu, I don't have many thoughts on his place in the world or wider story as of yet.

It's clear that he's a figure that's meant to have quite a lot of renown, one that can be easily believed as being the one people sing about in the Backstreets. One that is so sure of his position in the world that he doesn't even bother finishing off Xichun or Hong Lu due to knowing they don't pose even the tiniest bit of a threat to him.

It's also interesting how he's described. There's a lot of similarities between him and Hong Lu in that way. He's shown to be always serene, almost intimidatingly so. The way he looks at the Sinners, "as though he was gazing upon the clouds or blades of grass", is a direct reflection of how Hong Lu is described earlier in the same Intervallo. In fact, that confident calmness of his is shown to be what makes him so intimidating.

As for the Iori connection... Well, first of all it's made kind of unclear who Actually kills Shi Yihua. Before the execution happens, Zigong comments on the presence of "a serpent", while Jia Qiu tells her to "leave it". After Yihua is killed, Qiu once again repeats to leave this serpent alone, this time directing the order to Zilu.

This, I think, implies that whoever killed Yihua is not actually affiliated with Jia Qiu at all. That 'serpent' who killed him was an outsider, a spy of some kind that Jia Qiu deemed unimportant enough to let live despite the sudden seemingly hostile action.

It's also important to note that the furry trio from the Prologue all have specifically Purple accessories. While Iori's connection with snakes and serpents is an important part of her identity, what's often more important and identifying is the color Purple due to it being a direct part of her Fixer title.

Thus, personally, I believe the serpent could have some connection to Iori, as it has both the purple and the snake imagery to tie it to her.

Jia Qiu and his posse on the other hand not only are implied to not be affiliated with that serpent, but also only have the snakeskin motive, not the color. It's kind of like the Rabbits of R corp and Hares of the Heishou Pack - they're based on similar animals, but are at their core extremely different and unaffiliated.

But. That's not really what I want to talk about.

No, what I want to talk about is what I think Jia Qiu's narrative role might be.

See, here's the thing about Jia Qiu and his posse. Neither him nor anyone following him are directly named after any DOTRC characters.

However, another source for specifically Zilu and Zigong has already been found - they're named after Confucius's disciples. The reason why that's important is that Confucianism plays a major role in DOTRC, with one of the ways it comes up being a notable part of the reason why Baoyu is abused by his father - as Jia Zheng is a Confucian scholar that tries to live by those values, while Baoyu is anything but.

Thus, there are now two camps I see when it comes to theories on who Jia Qiu is meant to be based on.

There is the camp that believes Jia Qiu might be PM's reinterpretation of Jia Zhu, Baoyu's older brother who dies before the events of DOTRC.

There is also the other camp that looks at the references to Confucius's disciples and believes that Jia Qiu is just straight up Confucius himself.

My take? I think he's both. I think he's a composite character of both Jia Zhu and Confucius. And I even have a sound reason for why PM would do that.

Remember how I mentioned that Confucian values are part of the reason why Baoyu is targeted and abused by his father so much? Well, Jia Zhu is the other part of the reason. Jia Zhu, when he was alive, was exactly the kind of son and heir that Jia Zheng wanted. So, when he died, all of those expectations fell onto Baoyu. There's even a point where Baoyu's mother has a moment where she laments that she wishes Baoyu was the one to die instead of Zhu, as Zhu wouldn't have angered his father nearly as much.

I believe that Jia Qiu is meant to represent everything that Hong Lu's family wishes he could be. Everything that Hong Lu can't truly be no matter how much he tries. A combination of the creator behind the values forced upon everyone in the family, and of the family son who was perfect for the role in his family. The ideal heir, the template Hong Lu was meant to fit but never could.

Something tells me he's not going to survive for long.

[donglerang]

Imagine leading donglelings

THEY'RE NOT MY DONGLELINGS. THEY ARE MY FOLLOWERS. AND I DO NOT LEAD THEM LIKE DUCKLINGS

[lu-is-not-ok]

So you mentioned having your own thoughts on the Pinky, if you’re willing to ramble about it I’d love to hear that!

My main thoughts can boil down to being. Well. I suppose alternate interpretations of the different aesthetic and thematic choices PM has made with the Pinky that you already used in your own analysis and speculation post.

The thing with the Fingers is that they all, at some level, have some motif of extreme retribution/punishment. The Thumb severely punishes anyone who doesn't mind their position in the hierarchy through bodily harm. The Index effectively murders anyone who fails to follow the Prescripts given to them. The Middle deals out extreme revenge to outsiders who offend them on a regular enough basis to have a whole rulebook dedicated to what punishments are used for what. The Ring deals violently with anyone who fails their art exams or ruins what they consider a piece of art.

So, what would be different about the Pinky to make them a group to be Especially cautious of? I agree that their main theme likely will be Promises, but dealing out undue punishment for breaking a Promise is not that much different from being killed for not following a Prescript, or getting written down in the Book of Vengeance, now is it?

My thought is that the reason why the Pinky is so much more notable as to be extra cautious of is because they are The Most Defined by their idea of retribution out of all of the Fingers. With the other Fingers, the extreme punishments all come from Offending the main value that Finger holds - Hierarchy, Prescripts, Family, Art.

I believe that would likely be reflected tenfold for a Finger whose primary value is fulfilling Promises.

In my mind, the Pinky are a group who always fulfills their Promises, always settles their Debts so to say. They are invaluable allies if you can get on their good side, and especially if you can indebt them to you. However, they are also the most volatile, as any Promise broken or Debt unpaid will result in disproportional punishment. Something like the yubikiri vow implies - a lie punished by swallowing a thousand needles.

This is where another alternate interpretation of mine comes in, that being regarding the visual design of the Finger in Ryoshu's promo art.

See, the aesthetics of each Finger don't just represent the literal aesthetics each Finger has in their uniforms, but they're also a symbolic reflection of their Values.

The chains around the Middle's finger represent the bonds of their idea of Family, while the skull reflects their focus on vengeance for offenses towards that Family. The Ring's finger is fragmented and with many different colored sections, reflecting how The Ring has many different Art movements within it, yet still is united by the very idea of Art itself (perhaps represented by the gold square taking place of the finger's nail). The seal and writing on The Index's finger are of course a reflection of the written Prescripts, with the blue bits floating around them potentially being reflections of the borderline supernatural/divine method the Prescripts are created through. The formal attire on The Thumb's finger reflects their dedication to formalities and respect towards those higher up in the Hierarchy, and how they wish to present themselves as more dignified in a way.

So, what does the heavily injured, ragged, discolored, stabbed through design reflect when it comes to the Pinky?

I think for one it could reflect the inherent Humanity of that Finger compared to the others, as it's the only one on the art that still Actually looks like a human finger. After all, a big part of Pinky Promises isn't the threat of punishment, but the will to actually fulfill them - an inherent wish to extend kindness to those who agree to return it. It's a very Human instinct to want to help people in return for helping you, after all.

The different injuries and metal implements stabbed through the finger could then be reflections of those who Break their Promises against the Pinky - the backstabbers and the people who hurt the Finger despite the kindness they extended towards them. By being so willing to extend their help and Promises to others, the Pinky inherently puts themselves out there knowing they can be hurt, something that's all the more likely in an environment as defined by greed as the City. Thus, the backstabbing and hurt they endure for extending what little kindness they have defines their Values as much as that kindness itself.

Then the cloth could be seen as a bandage, reflecting the very few who are loyal to the Pinky and stick to their Promises. Their help might not be much compared to the constant pain the Pinky is going through though, and its nature might be very flaky - shown through the ragged appearance of the cloth. In a place like the City, there likely are very few willing to genuinely entertain the Pinky's Promises after all.

...And. This is where I get extra speculative.

Because there's something else that the different Fingers' Values contribute to. That being their source of more literal power.

The Thumb's focus on Hierarchy is what allows them to hold control over so many subsidiary Syndicates. The personalized swords the Index Proxies use are given out by the will of the Prescripts. Members of the Middle gain more enhancement tattoos the more vengeance they perform on those who slight their Family. The Ring is said to have varying fighting styles directly influenced by the different Art movements.

So, how would the Pinky's Value of Promises translate to being a source of power for them?

My personal unhinged idea is that the physical pain they suffer in some way directly translates to their physical strength. A sort of eye-for-an-eye source of power - you hurt me, so I promise to hurt you back worse. This is also where those who Do fulfill their Promises come in as well - due to the damage the Pinky members have to suffer first to be able to have any physical prowess, they require help to be cared for and return back to health.

And well. That would be all I have to say. If not for just one thing.

If you've seen my Canto 8 Bingo board, you'd notice one particular square on it. One very, very cope square. That being Lin Daiyu being a (former) member of the Pinky.

See, the reason why I sometimes referred to the Pinky's Promises as "Debts" is entirely because of Daiyu. Something within me deeply wants the Debt of Tears to be translated to something that has meaning on the wider worldbuilding via being a reflection of the Pinky's Values.

Is there any evidence for this possibly being the case? Absolutely fucking not. Am I still going to hold out hope for it until I'm fully proven wrong? You bet your ass I will.

[lu-is-not-ok]

I think it’s really interesting how much Hong Lu loses control and shows his true thoughts and feelings through his EGO. Also I just realized he focuses on both Rupture and Bleed in his Lasso ego. More duality. Always duality.

It's not really hard to see how that happens with how the Sinners' E.G.O work in the first place! According to Dante's Notes, to use E.G.O the Sinners have to strongly empathize with Abnormalities, "making their emotions or self-identity their own". Something like that would naturally make it harder to stay fully in control of one's feelings and thoughts, even for someone like Hong Lu.

That's not even mentioning Corroding, where a Sinner with a weakened mental state ends up Fully believing themself to be the Abnormality they're resonating with, thus becoming nigh indistinguishable from it - even further explaining why some of Hong Lu's most emotion-filled voicelines come from his Corrosions. During those moments all of his control essentially disappears after all.

As for Lasso specifically... Wait, that's actually really interesting. Neither Faust's Lasso nor Rose Hunter in its fight inflict any sort of Bleed, only Rupture. The Bleed is exclusive to Hong Lu's version of Lasso.

In fact, I wonder if there's even more to it than just duality... After all, for one we know Hong Lu's Family used extremely strong and painful ropes to tie people up as punishments, and for two we can speculate that Hong Lu's Lasso is in itself representing Hong Lu's feelings on his Family chasing after him and taking his agency away.

Is the Bleed a representation of that? A representation of just how much more the ropes hurt? Of how much more they dig in when they come from his Family?

[lu-is-not-ok]

Something I just realized is that both Hong Lu and Jia Xichun share Rupture as a part of their kits, but they also both have a secondary element. For Hong Lu it’s Sinking but for Xichun it’s Poise. Feels unique but weird. Thoughts?

See, I've been thinking about status effects in a more general sense as to what they represent more literally. I feel like there's a bit of a difference between Xichun having Rupture+Poise and Hong Lu having Rupture+Sinking, mainly because of what I think those statuses might represent.

Rupture, the status effect both share, is a representation of "true damage". Either damage done to precise weak points, as implied by Seven or Cinq, or damage done with enough power to break through defenses, such as Devyat.

For both Xichun and Hong Lu, I believe it represents their physical prowess and techniques, likely trained into them by the Jia Family.

Poise is a status effect that I believe quite literally represents moving gracefully and with intent. A building up of physical momentum or focus to deal more powerful strikes. Getting into the rhythm of the fight so to say.

This fits Xichun very well as we see she fights with fans, in an almost dance-like fashion. A combat style that would likely focus heavily on moving with intent and keeping up proper focus and momentum.

And while a lot of Hong Lu's IDs move in a graceful dance-like manner as well, they're usually not movements done for the sake of strengthening attacks, but merely for their performance. The only ID of his that does have Poise, Full-Stop, is shown to be explicitly moving with intent in his Uptie Story, weaving in and out to direct enemies into the line of sight of Heathcliff's sniper.

Sinking is an interesting status, as it represents mental, sanity damage. I'm guessing it could represent a lot of things. For the Butler and Dieci IDs, it could represent a sort of overpresent mental pressure. For Spicebush, it could represent the somewhat mind altering nature of the flowers. R Corp Ishmael literally deals damage directly to the psyche. There's a lot it could be, really.

...Which is why base Hong Lu having Sinking is so intriguing to me. Because there's only so much it could represent. Is it a representation of a sort of mental pressure he exerts due to something related to his status? Is he in some way actively taunting the enemy so that they lose resolve? Something else we don't yet know about?

There's also the implication of the juxtaposition of Rupture and Sinking next to each other. Rupture is a very physically-focused status effect, it reflects direct damage to the body. Sinking on the other hand is a very mentally-focused status effect, reflecting damage to the mind. Body and mind.

The very interesting part of this all is that this combination only exists in one other ID as of now - Sunshower Heathcliff. An ID that not only inflicts both Rupture and Sinking, but also gains Sinking as well, a reflection of how the E.G.O gear actively alters the user's mental state. The usage of both Rupture and Sinking here could represent how in Lobcorp terms, this gear could inflict either Black damage, or both Red and White damage. Basically both physical and mental.

So yeah. I think Hong Lu's status combo is much more intriguing than Xichun's, and I'm not sure if the reason for that is the same for both of them. It's a lot easier to explain Xichun's Rupture Poise than it is to explain Hong Lu's Rupture Sinking.

[lu-is-not-ok]

Two in one theory is that hong Lu really likes Oreos, because of the mix of the dark wafer and light cream :)

Goddamn I could go for oreos right now

[lu-is-not-ok]

Probably some gameplay opinion that differs from them. Also what prev said about NPD and different headcanons cuz it’s right on the money.

The fact some people think unbreakable coins are a bad mechanic is wild. Honestly just wish they made unbreakable avoid evade cuz it’s already the most broken thing in Limbus. Rant over.

(Ask game in question)

Lmao yeah. To be honest I don't have that many gameplay opinions, mostly because. I can read and also am good at the game //silly, but I guess that in itself could make people mad LMAO.