@lunadys and I have been talking. And maybe this is controversial, but we've always maintained that the Veil has gotta come down. It's like so many people hear, "The veil is thin here, the Veil thin here." And Sera MOCKING Solas for how much he says that. AND HOW EASY TEARS IN THE VEIL FORM. And somehow, the idea that the Veil is unravelling seems to go over some people's heads.
It is breaking apart. It is in TATTERS by Inquisition. We've been holding it together with ducttape and a dream.
It's like the floor is rotting out beneath us, and he's ripping it up. But everyone is SCREAMING "Where will we walk!" and risking the collapse of the entire house to stop him.
Why are we all so adamant that Solas shouldn't bring it down in a more controlled and humane manner? He outright SAYS there is no other way. He outright SAYS every other option is worse. He wants you to find a better way, but in the nine years since the last game, how has that been going?
Varric went up those stairs trying to get through to Solas. And presented him with the same speech they have been giving Solas for a decade. I think SOLAS might have actually been getting through to Varric. In that hushed conversation.
So when Solas says, "I have taken measures to minimise the damage." And ROOK decided that he wants to know what the worst case scenario will look like first hand, and kicks out the flooring supports.
...but with Veiguard, I feel like this time it just didn't care and was in a hurry to bury the DA world as fast as possible, so it could proceed to finishing Mass Effect off the same way.
Spoiler-y nitpicks and thoughts below
Once again, I'm all for the premise of almost none of the higher beings and deities of Thedas being kind or benevolent - and all of them turning out to be not what they seemed or were promised to be.
It fits the undergoing theme of every group in Thedas subtly believing that their true gods will come and fix everything, and every atrocity, every bloodbath, every sacrifice will be worth it. For the plot to take away that hope and expose how deep the wounds go, how absolutely wrecked this world is (and you can never un-wreck it , would have been absolutely logical and very in tune with the general tone of the series.
The Old Gods
If Archdemons contain not the souls of the Old Gods, but the key to the Evanuris mortality, why was Solas mad at the Grey Wardens for killing them? Why did Mythal/Flemeth needed to preserve the soul of an Old God? Wouldn't she, a betrayed and angry goddess, want to sever her traitors' connection to immortality? Instead, she wanted it "a piece of what once was, snatched from the jaws of darkness". Something, that meant to be saved from corruption and destruction. But now Solas dismisses it by saying that Old Gods were never a thing, it has always been the Evanuris using dragons as their conduits and immortality placeholders?
Then why did you give Grey Wardens so much crap for killing these dragons, Solas?!
Yeah, we can argue that Solas was worrying about the Evanuris not being able to sustain the Veil due to losing their immortality, but he was going to bring it down anyways? So what difference would it have made anyways?
Something doesn't add up.
I think, the most logical thing would have been to leave the Old Gods as the raw magic incarnate - truly a relict from the world back when magic was everywhere. So, it would have make sense for Flemeth, Morrigan and Solas want to preserve it - despite all the destructive potential, it has always belonged to this world. It would have also explained why darkspawn need to infect the slumbering Old Gods - as ancient magical beings, they are attuned to the world, and the taint means to exploit that connection.
2. The taint and the Blight
If the taint is the product of the Titan's anger and desire for vengeance...why can Ghila'nain use it like her own personal Play-Doh? I'd imagine, the pure concentration of wrath and anger should be particularly deadly for the Evanuris - because it's directed against them, first and foremost. I don't mind the Titans being as the general source of the plague - it would explain the Deep Roads and darkspawn behavior. A twisted wish to be whole again, an unfulfilled desire to keep fighting - a constant, never-ending call to arms. It also would have been a nice callback to the state of the Mother from Awakening: she woke up only to realize and remember what has been done to her, which broke her mind and made her desperate to either die or return to that mindless state of rage and destruction. So do the Titans feel, knowing they were mutilated and plundered, broken apart, and are in too much pain to ever forgive or know peace.
If Titans were so connected to the physical world, the taint changing everything it touches would have made sense: life itself twisting and contorting into a weapon, against an attacker it can't see or find. This is truly tragic, horrifying and realistic - taint as a wound that cannot heal, that festers, and rots but never closes. It's a very accurate depiction of trauma caused by a genocidal war.
Therefore, it would have made more sense if the Evanuris were fucking terrified of the taint and the darkspawn because of how devastating it was to them and because they had no clue how to destroy it - they could only contain it and hope it works.
Maybe Ghila'nain tried to master it but barely survived and went mad, modifying her body and "perfecting" herself as a result. It would still have been possible to keep her obsessed with taint - mostly out of pure denial that something can be beyond her control as she believes herself to be the Goddess of Creation.
Also, you can still have your scarier version of more active and virulent taint - just make it change in response to the gods appearing in the physical world. Make it spread more actively, make the darkspawn go into frenzy, make it look like the new Blight is starting - but now it's as if blindly searching for something or someone. Wouldn't that be fucking creepy?
Maybe, for the first time in a long while, the South of Thedas isn't the one to take a hit - instead, the darkspawn are flocking to where the gods are.
(Of course, the question is, why the taint doesn't target the elves specifically? Because of them losing their immortality - the taint isn't exactly sentient, so it perceives them as part of physical world)
It would have posed such an interesting and controversial option for the player: to weaponize the Blight to end the gods.
3. Maker
I remember that the developers mentioned that the Maker never meant to be real. It was meant to represent the humanity's ability to believe in a symbol. But the Veilguard's "the legend about the Maker was actually about magister's breaking into the prison made by Solas and accidentally blighting all around the place" is such an underwhelming conclusion. After all, the Ashes of Andraste meant to imply that there is something. That it's not just a collective gaslighting - but something else.
I feel like they could have made so much with it:
In the context of the taint's connection to the Titans, what if Maker has always been somewhat of an emissary of the taint? It was cut off from the dwarves and locked away - but it needed a way out, right? Even subconsciously, it knew that it has to get out. It was the music that kept playing, the song that called. So, it reached out to other beings of the physical world, whispering to them and beckoning them. Andraste, due to probably being a Dream Walker or extremely sensitive to the Fade, caught a glimpse of that events, but was never able to make sense of it, which led her to fill in the gaps, which led to the creation of andrastianism. Therefore, Maker didn't leave the Golden City - once the taint was released, it fulfilled its purpose.
What if Andraste willed the Maker into existence? Since Fade is attuned to people's dreams, thoughts, and inner worlds, maybe Andraste's connection to it was so strong, it channeled her pain, her wish for justice and salvation into a figure that she believed to be the Maker? What if she was even able to perform miracles with the Maker as her avatar, turning people into believers? So, logically, when she died, the Maker stopped responding: she was no longer there to sustain him. No amount of prayers and sermons, of repressions and murders, of crusades and chats would have made the Maker return - because the only person actually capable of that was burned and killed long ago. This would have also explained why some spirits believe in Maker because they saw him in people's dreams - the Maker never existed in any other shape and it couldn't manifest completely because his image differed based on individual person's imagination and convictions.
After all, the true horror of living is realizing that nobody is control. Nobody is coming to fix things for you. There is no hope - only the consequences you are forced to live in.
I’ve been seeing a lot of posts directed at Solavellans by kind, caring people who want to make sure we temper our expectations. After 10 years of being treated like dirt by the fandom, it’s so nice to have so many people take an interest in us, to the point of compassionately telling us that we aren’t going to get much content, as sad as that may be. I can’t speak for all Solavellans but I wanted to let everyone know why they don’t have to worry about me at least:
We are grown ups
We are adults, well versed in managing our expectations. In fact, most of us hold down jobs, take care of our families and live our lives. Are we excited that our Inquisitors will be in the game? Of course. Do we expect them to be the central character? Of course not. We understand that Rook is the star of the show. We are busy planning our Rooks and deciding which romances to pursue. We are trying to decide what class and faction to play just like everyone else. Are we excited about what we know about Solas so far? Yes. If Dorian is announced to be in the game, as seems likely, I’m sure people will be equally excited and talking about what they hope to see.
We know Solavellan content will not be the focus
See above but also, we are used to having less content. We have the least amount of romance content in DAI. In Trespasser everyone got to talk to their Lis throughout the game. We had a 15-minute conversation at the end. Most players got a resolution to their romances. Like all Inquisitors, our Lavellans are kind of in limbo where Solas is concerned. The fact that we are making Inquisitors in the character creator tells me that all Inquisitors will have at least one confrontation with Solas and Rook will probably be part of that. Those will differ depending on whether you want to stop him at all costs, redeem him or want to redeem him and romanced him. This was done in Trespasser. If they can find the time and money to put three paths of 15-minute conversation in a ten-hour game, they can do the same for a 70-hour game. That’s not a lot of content but it is sure to be impactful and we will be happy with it.
We are no different in voicing our hopes than anyone else
I have seen plenty of posts where people that romanced Dorian want to have a tender moment between their Inquisitors and him. I fully support their hopes. I want that to happen for them. Other hopes expressed are the return of Cullen, the return of the Hero of Fereldan, Fenris and Merril cameos, etc. All are expressed in terms of “I hope” or “I will riot if it doesn’t happen.” To be honest, I feel sad for those poor souls because no one is telling them to temper their expectations. Does the fandom not care about their health and well-being? We are expressing our hopes and wishes. Do we think we will get all of it? Of course not. We are, as I said before, adults.
We Think We Will Rescue Solas
Honestly? We hope we can be a part of that, but it is just hope. It is more likely that Rook will break him out of prison. Maybe the Inquisitor will get to help – the way Hawk and the Warden Companion did in DAI – but if not, there will probably be some sort of confrontation. Rook may ask the Inquisitor’s opinion about Solas and the answer will depend on the Inquisitor’s relationship with Solas but that may be all.
We have too many unrealistic expectation
Please don’t think that we expect everything we want to happen to be in the game. We are aware that a lot of our hopes are not going to be realized. To be honest, we are already surprised that some of those hopes are figuring in the game. Keep in mind that for 10 years we thought our only interaction with him would be to make sure he didn’t die alone. We recognize we are a small group and so does BioWare. Yes, we have indulged our brain rot and obsession with art and fiction but that’s just us. We don’t expect it to show up in the game. If it does, we will be excited. If it doesn’t, we will shrug our shoulders and go back to drawing and writing.
We are talking amongst ourselves
We are talking to other Solavellans. Solavellan has become a tight-knit community over the years because of what we’ve had to put up with. Anders fans can probably relate. We are not talking to the DA community at large. Most of us don’t interact with the larger DA community because of everything that has been said over the years. We talk to and support each other. If you aren’t a Solavellan, feel free to scroll past our posts or even block us if you think we are too loud or annoying. You won’t hurt our feelings.
I’m sure other Solavellans can add to this or mention things I’ve forgotten. Again, don’t worry about us. We will be fine.
Disclaimer: This is just for fun. My lore knowledge sucks. That being said. Lets fucking go, y'all.
According to the Chantry the First Blight was caused when the Tevinter Magistrates entered the Fade. They say the Golden City became tainted, the darkspawn are created, and the First Blight begins. This is said to happen in -395 Ancient. However, if you believe Corypheus, then the Golden City was already Black when the Magisters arrived. If you believe him or not probably depends on your views of the Golden/Black City and what is actually is.
According to the Chantry, The Golden City is the seat of The Maker. After the Maker's second mortal child began worshipping the Old Gods, the Maker banished spirits from the Golden City, and left it himself, abandoning both the city and humanity. The Elves have something different to say though, and their belief is that their gods are trapped in the Eternal City at the heart of the fade, and that Fen'Harel still roams the Fade keeping watch, so the gods can never escape from their prison. In Dragon Age Inquisition, we can actually see the Black City in the background. This will prompt Cole to comment "They still remember when they were higher, before it woke up and everything fell." which is quite cryptic, but something worth mentioning.
At this point the things I believe are: The city was indeed Black when the Magisters arrived, the city is where the Elven gods are imprisoned, and the act of visiting the City did indeed, trigger the First Blight. This does raise a few questions though. Why was the city already Black if it's the prison of the Elven Gods? Why did breaching the city start the Blight?
There is a line in Dragon Age Inquisition that has been on my mind for years. "Mythal speaks the calling." Maybe 10 years without DA4 has gotten to me, but I think this makes some amount of sense. A codex entry in DAI says "Andruil put on armor made of the Void, and all forgot her true face. She made weapons of Darkness, and plague ate her lands. She howled things meant to be forgotten, and the other gods became fearful Andruil would hunt them in turn…. Mythal's magic sapped Andruil's strength, and stole her knowledge of how to find the Void." According to Elven beliefs, the Void is home to the gods of disease, terror, spite, and malevolence. What is also worth noting is that the Taint itself is referred to as "darkness" several times through the series, and that blight disease is often called a plague. My proposition is this: Andruil brought the taint back from the Void, and after killing her Mythal was able to exert some control over it in some fashion, allowing life for the Elves to continue a bit longer.
The next notable event is the Rebellion that ends when Solas creates the Veil and banishes the Elven Gods. The event that triggers him to do this is the murder of Mythal. If Mythal was able to exert control over the taint, then her murder likely caused her control to weaken, if not cease all together. Building on this theory I propose that the Black City is the prison of the Elven Gods. It was blackened when the Magisters arrived, and likely blackened when Solas banished the gods, because the entire city has become tainted without Mythal able to protect it.
In short: Mythal's "speaking the calling" implies she has some control or influence over the taint. As her murder predates the creation of the Veil, and the Magisters breaching of the Golden City, then the taint should as well. Codex entries regarding other Elven Gods contain the same phrasing as Grey Warden lore, and may refer to the taint, supporting the presence of the taint on Thedas, as well as Mythal having a measure of influence over it. The Black City was likely tainted when the Elven gods were imprisoned, as a result of Mythal having been murdered by them.
At this point it becomes worthwhile to mention that Solas imprisoned two sets of Elven Gods. The Gods I suggest are imprisoned in the Black City are the Evanuris. This is the set of gods that murdered Mythal. But Solas also imprisoned a second set of gods called the Forgotten Ones. Legend says that he locked them in the abyss, while the Evanuris were locked in the Fade. Now, we don't get told where the abyss/Void is or how to access it the way we're told about the Fade. However there are some hints as to where the abyss is. First, we have an elven belief that states the sun burned the creations of earth to ashes, and the earth's sorrow created a deep abyss. A great chasm in Orlais is called the "Abyssal Rift" from which darkspawn swarmed out of during the Second Blight. The third notable hint is in DAI where three of the lower levels are grouped together as "the Uncharted Abyss." Every reference we have to the abyss that does not mention the Forgotten Ones points deep underground. There is another set of gods deep underground: The Old Gods. The Archdemons. I do think that it is possible they are the same: the surviving Forgotten Ones of Elven Lore are the Old Gods of Tevinter, are the Archdemons of the Blights. This could be a theory on its own, but if we accept that the Elven Gods were real and imprisoned, then we also need to consider the fate of the Forgotten Ones.
The First Blight began when the Magisters breached the Golden/Black City. If we accept the above theory of Mythal and the Taint, an easy explanation for this is that the Taint simply spread when the City was breached. I think that this makes sense, and is perhaps the simplest answer. However, I think there might be more to it. "Mythal Speaks the Calling," with what we know from the games, would imply that she speaks the song that calls the darkspawn to corrupt the Old Gods. If Mythal speaks the calling that drives the darkspawn to corrupt Old God's, its worth asking why she's doing this. I think there are a few potential reasons.
1. Mythal's control over the taint has weakened considerably since the time of the ancient Elves. Perhaps speaking the calling is all she has power left to do. And at the very least, this largely keeps the Darkspawn off the surface of Thedas.
2. Mythal intended for the blights to occur after the Black City was breached. The blight and the calling was Mythal's last attempt to destroy the Evanuris: should they ever escape they would have been haunted by the Archdemons.
In this theory, I tend to lean a little more towards option 2. The fact that Mythal knew the dark ritual she has Morrigan preform, and later takes the old God soul from Kieran, seems to me as if this had an element of planning to it. The blights were intended to destroy or weaken the Evanuris, but also present an opportunity for Mythal to grow her power. Which would perhaps allow her to eventually destroy the Evanuris herself, payback for her murder at their hands in the Ancient Age.
Theres been so much time between DAI and DA4 that I could stitch together a lot more tiny shards of dialog or codex entries to support this. But I'm going to leave it here and move on to some other fun theories.
Literally just woke up a couple days ago and this came pouring out of me, so apparently I worked on this in my sleep.
Advisory: please check that your tin hat is securely fastened.
Ok. So, Andraste. She confuses me, right, because we KNOW she existed. There are multiple nations' records of her and we even find her magical ashes.
She was just like, an every day lady in the South of Thedas when she heard the Maker. The Maker who had supposedly turned away from mankind after the hubris of the Magisters Sidereal led them to enter the Golden City and taint it.
Except those Magisters claim that the Golden City was already empty. There was no Maker.
If there is no Maker, then who did Andraste speak with in her dreams? Because she had visions and dreams her whole life of this "Maker". And after her enslavement by Tevinter, it was the "Maker" who urged her to lead an army against the nation.
So, she spoke to an entity in her dreams that led her to lead a rebellion to free slaves? AND she was joined by a BALD elf named Shartan?
We now know that ancient elves naturally bald when they're old enough. So Shartan was an ancient elf? And rumored to be her lover? Shartan is said to have been born into slavery, but that can't be proven. If he is an Ancient, he bears no vallaslin. Which suggests he was freed by Fen'Harel and was a member of the rebellion against the Evanuris.
Could Shartan have been an Agent of Fen'Harel? And if so, could Solas have been the one speaking to Andraste in her dreams?
Is Solas the Maker? I always waved off that theory in the past — it felt too farfetched to me at the time. But now? I don't know...
It also makes sense because it was the Old Gods' whispers that urged the Magisters Sidereal to enter the Fade. Which meant continued Old God worship would be a threat to what Solas had accomplished in locking away the Evanuris. So, he (or another Dreamer ally?) went to Andraste in dreams and urged her to proselytize for the Maker?
If that's the case... The parallels for Shartan/Andraste and Solas/Lavellan are just like... *Chef's kiss*
What in Thedas is happening with these religions?!?!? I must know the truth! Bioware PLEASE!
[Old reposts] Some thoughts about Ghilan’nain’s and Fen’Harel’s apotheosis
The myth of Ghilan’nains ascension tells that
“[Andruil] approached Ghilan'nain with an offer: the gods would share their power with Ghilan'nain, but only if she destroyed her creations”. (Codex: The Ascension of Ghilan’nain)
Dalish lore also points at Ghilan’nain being especially faithful to Andruil’s moral path and, in turn, favoured by her. The offer of apotheosis itself was extended by none other that Andruil.
This opens up a rare possibility of patronage being granted by the Evanuris to their chosen subjects. Eventually, the Evanuris agreed to “share their power with Ghilan’nain”. It likely involved some sort of social rite of passing: she received a domain, a sacred shapeshifting form (perhaps shapeshifting was reserved for the Evanuris only altogether?), probably much more than that, but she had to enter the clique and adjust to their group dynamic.
It is confirmed by Fen’Harel in Trespasser DLC that godhood among the elvhen was a matter of acquired power. The Evanuris climbed the ladder of power and esteem until they were worshipped as gods. This suggests an enormous disparity between the Evanuris and the common people of the Elvhenan in peak moments before Mythal’s murder - a disparity that Fen’Harel would have sworn to even out.
He could walk among both the Evanuris and the Forgotten Ones, but only the latter are said to have recognized him as their equal.
for although he is kin to the gods of the People, the Forgotten Ones knew of his cunning ways and saw him as one of their own. (Codex: Fen’Harel, The Dread Wolf)
It is implied from Cole’s remark from Trespasser DLC that Solas used to wear the vallaslin, presumably Mythal’s, but removed it from his own face:
He did not want a body. But she asked him to come. He left a scar when he burned her off his face.
I’ll leave aside the possibility of him being chosen as Mythal’s beneficiary at some point in history. What interests me is the tricky position: Fen’Harel being “kin” to the Evanuris, but being excluded from the pantheon; always separated as the double-dealing, lone walker, recognized by the Forgotten Ones, but not quite one of them either.
My guess is that Solas broke free from Mythal while she was still alive because, in his earlier years, he was this kind of archetypal chaotic rogue who couldn’t stand any restrictions, or follow any rules for dear life. Thus, he received a trickster moniker that seems to gather all meanings around betrayal, chaos, deceit, duplicity, havoc, revolt, etc. etc. The ostracization of Solas/ Fen’Harel would have begun long before he started his revolt, for one specific reason: he probably despised both cliques, defied their rules and inner dynamics altogether, and rose to power by plucking whatever bit he wanted to pry away from them to undermine the existing dynamic. For all it’s worth, he operated like a Forgotten One.
From Geldauran’s Claim we can derive that at least one of the Forgotten Ones recognized accomplishments of power and rejected the Evanuris as a group with their pretence to set the rules for others. We don’t know if the Forgotten Ones themselves showed any pretence to define themselves as a group, not just defiant individuals reconciled with their fate to be obscured by history as long as it’s dictated by the Evanuris:
Let Andruil’s bow crack, let June’s fire grow cold. Let them build temples and lure the faithful with promises. Their pride will consume them, and I, forgotten, will claim power of my own, apart from them until I strike in mastery. (Codex: Geldauran’s Claim, JOH)
The myth of Fen’Harel and the Tree shows him between a rock and a hard place, having wronged both Andruil and Anaris the Forgotten One. Which implies, our boy could have been really busy pissing everyone off and usually finding a way to escape retribution by the skin of his teeth. The question remains why Fen’Harel was somehow remembered as a separate entity, not just labelled another Forgotten One.
A possible answer is that his remarkable skill in deceit and double-dealing gave him an immunity pass of a spy mastermind who had a hook on everyone. Which leads us to another possible answer: it’s quite possible that he surpassed both groups, and they reluctantly had to reckon with him while trying to keep the common people away from his area of influence. If he truly managed to imprison both groups of the elvhen “gods”, then for a brief moment he might have been, effectively, the most powerful elvhen to ever exist.
So, here’s a contrast between Ghilan’nain, who obeyed the Evanuris and destroyed the majority of her creation in exchange for power and inclusion (possibly, also the mandate to keep making her creatures on a lesser scale, with better resources and infrastructure, under other Evanuris’ scrutiny), and Fen’Harel who disregarded their rules and quite literally remained a self-made figure. Apotheosis as a token of recognition and as a rise in reputation, and apotheosis as a claim for tangible control.
Ok, seems like I have half an hour to kill while this downloads, so just for my own peace of mind, I'm gonna squeeze in my personal Blight/Titan theory post that I didn't find time to do properly - in the most stressed, bullet pointy way possible... just for posterity, I realise everyone will be off playing lol
I believe in this random youtube comment I can't find sources for anymore as the origin of the Blight:
Here's a link btw to a theory I wrote a long while ago about the orb NOT being a titan heart. If anything, mayyyyybe the idol is it.
I think we can clearly ditinguish between elvhen and titan magic (and blight magic) by colour! (See post, but) green=elvhen and blue=titans.
Which brings me to Urthemiel's soul/Mythal/Solas after he absorbed Mythal's power:
ALL BLUE!
I think the Evanuris split up the power of the one slain titan among themselves and this is what makes them so very powerful - see Solas pre vs post absorbing Mythal's power (and I do think it's just her power, she sent away a wisp of her core self to Morrigan through the Eluvian, like she sent one away previously into the amulet, and Morrigan housing that powerless wisp is what we meet in DATV)
I think for whatever reason (maybe Fen'harel tricking them) they put their respective pieces of titan power inside powerful high dragons that are to them what the fake archdemon was to Corypheus. Sort of guardians, sort of horcruxes, sort of enforcers. Not the Evanuris themselves!
I think Flemeth was collecting titan magic, not literal multiple individual souls. I think the "dreams" Kieran were more like titan whispers.
This is also why Harding's new magic does the same (presumably with way less power) as what we see Solas do in Trespasser. Maybe - pure tinfoil - she even gets it from an interaction with Solas rather than a direct connection to a titan like Valta, since she seems so confused about it and Valta seemed to understand via her connection.
******
Ok, other theories:
I think Solas used to literally be a spirit of Pride, as in the sense of identity, self-respect and dignity of a people.
If you continue that thought, when you face systematic oppression a lack of this kind of pride is something that leaves you in a perpetual state of victimhood and vulnerable to exploitation if you don't fight to keep it.
And especially in the Canticle of Exultations there was a bit that kind of implied like there was a more systemic reason why elves are facing oppression over and over. Very curious to see if that is really something...
Anyway, that is why Solas can't just quit to have a happy personal life. Cause that would literally mean the Elvhen give up in more ways than one.
******
Finally - I think Qunari were made by Tevinter, not Ghilan'nain! Just a feeling of how themes connect, but also that's why Corypheus knew about it.
Ok, I think that's it! 5 minutes of download remaining ahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!
