#dean hell trauma

[angelsdean]

the worst most terrifying abusive and violent person in dean's life who contributed to the most of his trauma is literally......alastair.

[beestiel-winchester]

That scene in Lazarus Rising where Sam throws Dean Baby's keys and Dean get's all excited and says "I almost forgot!"

What do you mean he almost forgot? He almost forgot Baby! He almost forgot his home, the one place that kept him safe, the one place that was his own.

And it's not surprising after being tortured in hell for forty years, but most of the time the show doesn't really aknowlege how fucking long Dean actually was away, how much time passed.

That scene get's me every time, It's so devastating.

[angelsdean]

can i also just say, i absolutely despise the line in 12x09 where dean says "I’ve been to Hell. This was worse." in reference to his 6 weeks of being locked in solitary. like yes solitary is awful and in real life would absolutely be a hellish torture to any person. but this is a horror-fantasy show where characters experience things that have no real life equivalent and are often much worse horrors than anyone could imagine. he's literally been to hell and was tortured for every second of 40 years. literally NOTHING he experiences on earth will be worse than that, sorry. and this line just completely minimizes his entire experience in hell and the trauma from it that he still carries every fucking day. acting like it was just a blip and that being locked in a room for 6 weeks is somehow worse than 30 yrs of gruesome bodily torture + 10 yrs of hurting others, an even worse torture for dean.

[angelsdean]

Just saw your Alastair post and I absolutely agree, just curious if you know if there was ever canon confirmation that Alastair lied and John didn't last as long as Dean did? I don't remember specific details well and I'd love to know! Thanks 👍

I don't think there's anything explicitly stated, but it's certainly an interpretation that can be supported by the text. Like, in 2x08 the crossroad's demon is already trying to manipulate Dean into a deal. 2x08 isn't that long after John died. If, like Dean, John were experiencing a decade in hell per earth month, then 100 yrs (10 months) have definitely not yet passed***. Which means if the demons are already trying to get Dean to make a deal so they can get him into hell to break the seal, then this means that they already know John was NOT their guy. Which means John either already broke by 2x08 OR John was never the Righteous Man to begin with.

I'm down for either interpretation, but I tend to favor the latter, which is that they knew John was never the one destined to break the seal, but they used John (and John's deal) to get Dean to make his deal. I think the demon that crashes into them at the end of s1 did so purposely to make Dean's life hang in the balance. Then Azazel continued to manipulate the situation, getting John to make his deal to save Dean. Because then, all throughout s2 we see Dean grappling with his anger and grief over John's deal Dean believing he shouldn't even be alive. What's dead should stay dead etc etc.

I think the demon's first plan, as the crossroad's demon in 2x08 tries to do, was to get Dean to trade his life to bring back John. The demon tries to manipulate his grief (also she admits the demons have been watching him):

DEMON Because your misery's the whole point. It's too much fun to watch. Knowing how your daddy died for you, how he sold his soul. I mean, that's gotta hurt. It's all you ever think about. You wake up and your first thought is, "I can't do this anymore." You're all lit up with pain. I mean, you loved him so much. And it's all your fault. You blew it, Dean! I could have given you what you need. DEAN What do I need? DEMON Your father. I could have brought him back. Your loss. Seeya, Dean. I wish you a nice long life.

And then

DEAN Can you bring him back? My dad? DEMON Of course I can. Just as he was. Your dad would live a long and natural life, like he was meant to. That's a promise. DEAN What about me? DEMON I could give you ten years. Ten long good years with him. That's a lifetime. The family can be together again. John, Dean, Sammy. The Winchester boys all reunited. (she advances towards him) Look. Your dad's supposed to be alive. You're supposed to be dead. So we'll just set things straight, put things back in their natural order. And you get ten extra years on top. That's a bonus.

If she's offering to bring him back, that means John isn't needed in hell and that he either already broke early and they realized it wasn't him or he was never the one they really wanted to being with.

And also yeah she's "promising" him ten years but...being a hunter it's unlikely he would have gotten that and I think, as we saw with the car crash, demons could easily make sure he's dead right when they need him in hell to kickstart the apocalypse. So I don't think they were ever intending on actually giving him ten years. And when this first plan fails, Azazel goes for Sam. Makes sure Sam gets taken out during the Special Children Showdown, because the demons have been watching and they know Dean won't let Sam die. And they know Dean has been thinking all season that he shouldn't be alive and that he will "set things straight, but things back in their natural order" with a deal. And now they don't even try to pretend with him, no promise of 10 yrs, just one.

So anyway, I think they were always gunning for Dean, trying to engineer a way to get him to make a deal. First they took John away, made sure his death would make Dean feel guilty, hoping the guilt would be enough for him to make a deal. When that didn't work they zeroed in on Sam, knowing Dean would trade his life for Sam's. It was always IMO to get Dean into hell because he was always the Righteous Man and not John. John was just a failed pawn. But Dean doesn't know that and Alastair uses that to get under Dean's skin.

*** side note: I don't believe the hell time difference actually applies to any character other than Dean. But again, Dean does not know this and Alastair uses that to his advantage to further manipulate and mess with Dean, making Dean think John was enduring "100 yrs" of hell in the earth year he was dead. I think part of Dean's specific torture was messing with time and making those 4 months feel like 40 yrs. I don't think John or any other character experienced this "hell time." It's similar to how Gabriel makes Sam live through 6 months in a pocket world in Mystery Spot. I think Dean's unique hell torture chamber involved creating some kind of pocket space for him and only him to live through decade after decade of torture. Because they needed him to break and soon. And Dean is strong. And four months would be nothing to him! So, special time-vortex for Dean! Let's speedrun 40 yrs of torture!