#diva tag

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liza minnelli by andy warhol

[princesshalfdemon]

“We are the same. You, I, the rich, the poor, the powerful, the weak. We are all fundamentally the same.”

“We come from nothing. And so, we one day will die in nothing.”

Luisia Watanabe

Antonia Riberia

Diva

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this post about lesbian divas rlly delighted me. it's fun to see this niche topic talked about and expanded on with lots of examples. soooo i compiled all the responses as of 21/09/23 10:30pm EST and put them in a spreadsheet. then ranked them by how much of a diva i consider them lol

first off, the general list. i found 152 unique responses in the replies, tags, and comments. some were only first names so i didnt bother researching into who the poster was talking about. images for ease of viewing:

second... what is a diva?? clarifying where im coming from is important to understand my upcoming opinions. i should make clear that im talking about DIVAS as in DIVA WORSHIP as in LIZA MINNELLI-BARBRA STREISAND-BETTE DAVIS-LADY GAGA etcetera. dykes can see these female celebs as divas as well, but what the original post touches on is the male diva.

this rthko ask explains the diva well. you should also take a look at scholarly articles and books -- divas have been a part of recorded gay culture and esp gay male culture and drag queen culture forever -- the term isnt concrete. rthko says that "there's no real formula" but lists these typical features of a diva:

larger than life -- glam, humor, charisma? would a drag queen impersonate them?

theatrical / proximity to theatre

sexy / horny -- rthko notes here that these arent requirements, citing liza's lack of sexual overtness

strength

niche -- can be popular but not a general crowd-pleaser

gay rights supporter -- before it was cool

now rthko is talking about female divas, even noting the blind spot for bi/lesbian fans and artists. i say you can apply the same features to male celebrities to identify the male divas dykes idolize. i should note that some of the ppl on the list are women or genderqueer. so the list is not entirely male.

another note: im putting so much emphasis on DIVAHOOD because it's SUCH a specific term. not all icons, "weird little guys", "blorbos" are divas. one thing rthko doesn't touch on is how a diva often has a strong sense of self that the devotee can identify and want to emulate -- at the xtreme, leads to drag art. if they dont inspire and amaze, then are they a diva?

lets get into part 3: which of these 152 people / concepts / groups are honest to god divas? you can argue they're all Icons to some extent (the bare minimum being having a lesbian fanbase) but do they have what rthko and i (and gay culture researchers) consider to be the features of a diva?

first thing i did identify those i both recognized and "saw divahood within". ended up with 44:

then i shrunk down the list even further to 18 (again, pure opinion):

then i ranked the 44 more methodically by mapping out the 7 features of the diva:

several important notes:

this ranking is not definite -- though i tried to be fair, considering the limits to what i know, it is subjective

i dont know the histories of some of these people, so i may be missing some things. an inverse example: i know far too much about gerard way, so i had a good idea of how he fit into each feature

some of these i couldnt decide whether i should check or not. al pacino i was esp worried about... couldnt justify checking those boxes the way i can for other people

either way, my findings yielded interesting results! 3 of the most commonly talked about singer-songwriters (bruce, bob, johnny) ranked low. this may indicate that there's other features to the male diva that arent specified or dont apply to females divas / gay male devotees. perhaps defined gender expression, or “voice for lesbians”, or something else.

all of the people with a score of 4 or more can be emulated. "sex" (meaning overt sexuality) is the least common feature, after "theatrical".

though anyone can be a diva to anyone, there's a certain "canon" of who is a diva in gay circles. liza barbra bette gaga. this messy qualitative approach is an attempt to figure that out for dyke divas. i would love to talk about it more.

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Judy Garland and Liza Minnelli by Andy Warhol

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thinking about divas once more. divas are often celebrities (sometimes not). there is the real person (little known) and there is the character (completely known). but divas are a step forward in that the character becomes a real person. lets take a nondiva like. brad pitt. he’s a known person but the character doesnt have a life of its own. it’s just there whenever he’s there. but liza is a spirit separate from the girl. i can call onto her: oh liza get me through this. it’s hard to identify recent divas because celebrity itself has become blurred in the real and the projected.

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besides the blood or because of the blood, it seems like where the gay diva upholds a perfect appearance, the dyke diva (shorthand for people I a DYKE consider to be divas) is disheveled, unmade, off-putting… but still has a strong aesthetic direction…

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i dont see gerard way the guy as a diva but what he does on stage and the clarity in vision and the person he projects and the levels at which gay people see themselves in him and the camp and theatre all point to a divalike flourish

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my dyke divas