#dndads discourse

[wherearethecheatcodes]

I hope all the DnDads fans on tumblr.com are looking after yourselves and doing your stretches!

Wouldn't want anyone to pull a muscle with all the reaching and mental gymnastics going on.

[ma-lark-ey]

DnDads fandom, here’s some food for thought for you. 

You keep telling Anthony you want representation, that you want more diversity, you want characters confirmed as fandom wide headcanons, whatever. You tell him you want more. 

But, these same blogs that say these things reblog posts on the “men writing women” memes and rant on cis people writing trans characters and white people writing POC and whatever else, so let me off you this. 

If you were a content creator, and your fans were asking you for representation, while on the same note saying how people who aren’t [people group] can never get [people group] right, what would possess you to take that step to provide that? I want you to genuinely think about that, because as a content creator who prides themself on putting in the kinds of characters I’ve heard people cry for in my stories, seeing those kinds of things is very discouraging. Because, I, as a white person know my portrayal of a POC is never going to be as good as POC want it to be, but all I can do is try  my very best and listen to them on their critiques and turn around what I did wrong. 

I’m not saying Anthony is justified in the lack of diversity in NPCs, but you guys need to understand that when you tell him to provide diversity then also complain that [majority group] never portray [minority group] right is not helping your case. All you’re gonna do is discourage him from providing that. 

If you need evidence, here’s an actual Talking Dads quote form Anthony on Trans Nick and other fandom wide headcanons  ( I did not transcribe this scene, i thank my Discord friend for sending me this. I don’t know your Tumblr but if you see this just drop a say so in the notes) 

“Anthony: Oh wow. There are a lot of ones I like that are almost exclusively about gender and orientations and stuff like that. Of like, oh yeah maybe Nick is trans or or or any of those kinds of things. Cause those, it’s always like, not not that I would ever take those because uh, uh, and, make them part of the main canon just because I feel like that might- I don’t trust myself to not make that appropriative and weird. But I love that people from marginalized communities are taking those characters and being like “he’s ours now!”

Beth: Yeah. 

Anthony: ‘Nick, he’s- he’s black and he’s a trans man and Glenn loves him and it’s not a big deal.’ And like, all that kind of stuff.”

I’m sympathetic to sentiments like this, because this was my writing until this very year. My thought process was “I won’t write POC because I, as a white person, might fuck it up” and that thought process is only made so much stronger when if you do fuck up, no matter how minor or how severe, you’re met with nothing but inbox spam and threats and hostility. If you want response; use your words politely. When you attack them, nothing will change. Attacking does nothing but make them fear their own fans, and that’s genuinely not what we want. I know that’s not what we want. This callout/cancel culture people have created in this little fandom is so toxic, to both us and the dads. 

If you’re gonna ask something of the dads, do it nicely. Don’t come for their throats. If you, YOU personally, have sent them the same message multiple times and have no response after a couple weeks; then you get rights to get more aggressive. Not when you’re posting one call out on their Twitter.com and do nothing but yell and accuse. That’s not accomplishing anything. 

If I, a fifteen year old, find myself using more tact in these posts than grown ass adults, there’s definitely a problem here. And it’s not the dads. 

You wanna know that dads aren’t giving representation? Because they’re scared of fucking it up, they’re scared you ADULTS are going to come for their throats at the smallest mistake and continue to turn their fanbase into a warzone. Don’t make it a warzone. 

You know how you fix that? Approach them. Message them on some platform. Just say; Hey, I know your fans want [character] to be [minority group] and if you wanted help in learning how to confirm that, I am [minority group] and I’d be willing to help you.

It’s that easy! Wow! 

Because, honestly, even a sensitivity director can’t be perfectly knowledgeable on every single minority group. 

If you want your kind of minority group represented in DnDads, god dammit reach out to the cast and offer your input. Not you may not be an authority on your minority group, or some kind of genius on it, but one of those people reaching out and offering advice based on their own experiences is often much better than nothing. 

Like, the other day on twitter someone said, “Hey, Jenna and Anthony! I noticed you called Ratticus Finch ‘agendered’ and that’s not a perfect term for all nonbinary people, so I would suggest putting in some more research on terms before the next episode.” And THAT’S how you approach topics at first, not screaming and yelling. That’s how you put in advice. That’s how you provide criticism. 

I said when I first started talking about discourse that the adults are the problem, and i still stand by that. Because I am yet to see anyone under the age of 25 acting like this. Anyone younger I’ve seen on this has been tactful, and polite. Which really shows the difference in generations. It’s sad. 

I hold hope in the hosts, because they’ve made steps to change in the past. And they’re only gonna take the issues one hurdle at a time, you can’t expect everything to be managed all at once, they have to pace themselves or else they’re going to get burned out and that’s worse. 

And if this podcast at the moment is not up to your standards? That’s fine. Walk. Away Come check back in in a few months if you still hold interest and see if it’s what you want to associate yourself with. Just stop attacking the hosts, criticize and construct them instead. 

You get nothing out of tearing others down, only more destruction. 

[ma-lark-ey]

HI I’M BACK ON THE DISCOURSE. 

This time about the DnDads transcripts. As i said before; I’ve been voluntarily transcribing episode one on my own accord for awhile now. I’m halfway through episode one, so i decided to check my work with the official transcript. 

It’s so bad. It’s not even accurate at times. 

I can and will link my in progress doc for you all to fact check me if requested. 

Here’s the thing; I read this transcript, and each scene I noticed inconsistencies I went back to make sure I hadn’t messed up in my own transcript. I didn’t. 

Here’s some of the problems I found, in the first twenty minutes of episode one alone; 

1. the opening lines from Freddie. They’re not aligned with what he actually says. I’m going to copy and paste my transcript versus the official transcript.

Discrepancies are bolded

[ LARK’S TRANSCRIPTION ] 

“[ intro music 0:00-0;16] 

Freddie: Welcome to Dungeons and Daddies! Which is, um, not a BDSM podcast. That’s very important. Ah, this is actually a DnD real-play podcast that tells the story of four dads from our world who are transported into the Forgotten Realms; and they’re quest to rescue they’re lost sons! 

Freddie: For those of you who have never played Dungeons and Dragons or listened to a DnD podcast before, here’s what you need to know; this is basically an improvised adventure where we, the players, who will be introducing themselves shortly, roleplay as dad characters! We can basically do anything we want, but the results of our actions are dictated by Anthony, our Dungeon Master, and the rolls of dice! The standard die used is a twenty-sided die called a d20, and basically the higher we roll, the better the outcome. One being a total failure and twenty being a total success. That being said; my name is Freddie Wong, and I play Glenn Close who is- 

[interrupted by the laughter of the rest of the table momentarily, most notably Will] 

Will: I’m sorry! I laugh everytime everytime I hear it. 

Beth: [chuckles] 

Freddie: Who is a, uh, dad-rock cover band dad/bard. Fun Dad Fact about Glenn! You might’ve saw him back in 1997 on the side stages of Bonnaroo; him and the Glenn Close Trio played, uh, one of the side stages on the way to hot dogs! 

Will: Wow! 

Freddie: yeah, over in the, yeah they’re… [trails off]” 

[ OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPTION ] 

“[theme song]

Freddie: Welcome to Dungeons and Daddies, which is not a BDSM podcast. That is very important. This is actually a D&D real-play podcast that tells the story of 4 dads from our world, who are transported into the Forgotten Realms and their quest to rescue their lost sons. My name is Freddie Wong, and I play Glenn Close—

[all laugh]  

Will: I’m sorry, I laugh every time I hear it.

Freddie: —who is a dad-rock cover band dad, slash bard. Fun dad fact about Glenn: you might have saw him back in 1997 on the side stages of Bonnaroo. Him and the Glenn Close Trio played one of the side stages on the way to the hot dogs.”

There are also moments where they straight up have the WRONG HOST listed. It’s painfully obvious these transcripts were not done meticulously. 

One example at 10:31 through about the next minute, and I even fact checked this with another listener to make sure I hadn’t screwed up which host it was, because I’d realized I’d mixed up Freddie and Anthony in a previous line. And, nope, they had who was clearly Freddie listed as Anthony. 

[ LARK’S TRANSCRIPT ] 

“Darryl; Woah-ho! Hey there, boys! Hey! You must be Henry, howzit going? My name’s Darryl. Darryl Wilson!

 Henry: Hey- hey Henry- its uh- no wait. [ Will is also breaking character during this moment ] 

Freddie: You guys don’t actually have to actually physically shake hands in real life. 

Darryl/Matt [unclear which]: Hey there, Glenn! It’s just about being polite. I’m just gonna give the man a handshake. You can tell a lot about a man from his handshake. 

Henry: Hi there, uh, Darryl! These are my two beautiful boys, Lark and Sparrow."

[ OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT ] 

“Darryl: Woah! Hey there, boys! Hey, you must be Henry! How’s it goin’? My name’s Darryl, Darryl Wilson!

Henry: H-Hey, Henry, it’s, uh, wait—

Anthony: You guys don’t have to actually, physically shake hands in real life!

Matt: Hey there, man, it’s just about being polite, you can tell a lot about a man from a handshake!

Henry: Hi there, Darryl, these are my two beautiful boys, Lark and Sparrow—”

I’m not counting the discrepancies in grammar or punctuation here, because that’s a matter of transcribers choice. But cutting out entire lines  and listing the wrong people? 

As I said before; If you want something right, do it yourself. 

If anyone wants to help me on writing these transcripts, my DMs are open. I’m not like, requesting people help, but if someone else is also interested in doing this with me? hit me up. 

[ma-lark-ey]

If one more of y'all motherfuckers draw WHITE OAK TWINS I am coming for you.

[ma-lark-ey]

I'm making this post the disclose my current opinions on the Dndads discourse and how frivolous its become.

I would like to preface with one thing;

This post contains content of grooming and manipulation, as this has been the main discussion in this fandom and the issues. I am speaking from my own personal experience, as a former victim of grooming who only recently escaped my abuser. I will not say their name, those who I feel comfortable knowing further information on this already know.

this is my trauma, and I am speaking from my experiences. This is one of the hardest possible topics I could touch on, and I beg anyone who still cares to listen, whether I change your mind or not. Listen.

I've wrestled with my support of this podcast for eleven weeks now. Maybe longer. Since before the discourse became a major thing. I've wrestled with this since episode 34 was released, and I need you understand that.

I need you to understand that I believe the hosts have done what they can to fix these issues. And I genuinely do not see what people still want from them. I will address each topic one at a time, and if I touch on things lesser than others, please understand that this discourse triggers a trauma that I underwent less than a year ago. a trauma I am still processing.

1. Grant, and his over sexualization.

The jokes revolving Grant and his sexual orientation or exploration were sometimes in very poor taste, I am not that blind. I will not defend them or say they weren't as bad as they are. But here'd what people have to think about when we talk about this; Those jokes are already in the episode. They cannot be removed, and the best the hosts can do about that is avoid that humor in the future. Humans are not perfect, and humor is ever growing part of a person, its always a tossup of if a joke will land or not. These did not, and they have not made these jokes since they got called on it.

On the Discord claims about them discussing his porn history, I can say nothing on that. I've seen no sources or proof that that happened. I won't make any opinions or comments on that until I've seen concrete proof that these conversations happened.

2. The Unsafe Discord.

They're Discord is no longer unsafe. Blanket statement, no discussion open. Here's the thing and here's where I'm going into my personal experience; Discords minor precautions arent up to par either. The DnDads hosts have made their 18+ channels, they've made the Discord clear to not be a totally kid friendly place and has tried to separate adults and minors. But they genuinely can only do so much. Minors can easily bypass these guidelines, and that is where we get to the whole grooming argument.

As a grooming victim, this is not the slippery slope people make it out to be. And adult fans,,this is where I'm telling you to sit down and shut up for a minute. Listen, for just a moment. I know I'm "just a kid" but, I've lived the possible outcomes you've thrown out. I lived that experience, and I lived. I survived, and the way you talk about it is so invalidating to me its absolutely disgusting.

I'm prefacing this with this may sound ineloquent, and not as "pleasant" as I usually like to sound. Because with this I expect people to listen. Its not in the public ass Discord server where you should watch out for the child. Its if you see an 18+ individual actively DMing that person, and this minor speaking about this person as if they're a major part of their life.

I need you to understand that I was genuinely wary of one of our own community members when I first began speaking with them, because of this trauma. I wary of ALL of our community members. I didn't share my other socials with people in this community unless I knew their content first. There have been multiple times I've stopped myself from messaging who I will call "My Annus" because of this trauma I've endured.

And I'm sorry, but Waterdeep genuinely has no precautions set in place to separate adults and minors that the DnDads Patreon does not. You cannot act like saints and villainize them, when they adjusted and became you. Then either both of you are saints or both of you are demons.

Children interacting with adults is always a bit set back at first. But I've been groomed. Twice. And you people act like its obvious, like it can happen so easily. And it does, it happens easily. First its them texting you so much you feel overwhelmed, then its them becoming someone you rely on. Someone who makes you pity them.

And its not gonna be people who are SIGNIFCANTLY older. (i.e, I feel much less worry interacting with 30 year olds than I do 18-22 year olds.) Because the adult people that feel 'more understandable' to be friends with cause their just barely adults? they tend to pry harder. They can get away with it. Thats just fact. The people who say "Oh I'm eighteen, but I just turned eighteen" I'm always the wariest of. Not because I'm convinced they're bad people or whatever, but because both times; my abuser was one of those people. This was two different people as well.

And thats what the adults of this fandom won't address. That its not the slope they've made it out to be. Because then they have to retract statements they made, and a lot of people, minors and adults, just don't have the humility to do that.

The only advice I can give to people in the server, who are worried for the minors. These are the only signs I can give you, and this is from my experience or the experience of other survivors I've spoken to, and I'm by no means saying this is concrete.

Abusers tend to be /just/ enough of an adult to be considered on, but not so old that it'll be considered weird for them to befriend a minor. The age gaps I see most often are 14/19 or in that kind of range. They'll go for the lonelier or newer folks, the ones who haven't built their group in the community and are just entering. The ones looking for their place in the hierarchy. If you want to help protect us, you watch like a mother bear when a new minor joins.

A lot of us don't realize its happening until its too late, and by the time we realize the situation we've fallen into its too late for us to get ourselves out. The majority of us have weak wills and a fear of conflict.

3. What the Hosts have done in response.

I honestly, genuinely think the hosts have done a lot of steps in the right direction. And in recent episodes? man, they've tagged their shit better than the McElroys, and no I'm not reaching there.

Honestly, they kind of did before to, on topics they knew were really rough for some people.

When they warned for the Willy Stapler stuff, I was grateful. They warned me I may be triggered by Ron and Willy's dynamic before I was forced with it. The McElroys had a scene with grooming in Grad, and I wasn't warned. I couldn't mentally prepare myself and I had a minor reaction to it. And thats not at all to shit on the McElroys, anyone who knows me know I love that family more than anything. That they saved me. Thats just a statement I need you all to understand.

The Hosts aren't "ignoring us" they're listening to us. They genuinely are. They saw we wanted content warnings, and they gave us some of the best content warnings I've seen. They've content warned episodes I didnt see reason for content warnings.

4. The Transcripts.

Look, this is beating a dead horse at this point. I, personally, have debated beginning to transcribe episode. I know they said they will, and I trust their word. But thats all we can really do, right?

I've transcribed things myself before, guys, and thats hard. and it takes time. and knowing them, they'll want to get all the current episodes up at once, and thats gonna take a hot minute to get down. And we can go into "Well why didnt they transcribe from the beginning?" and well, that's because transcribing just wasn't a thing until recently? Like again, going back to MBMBAM and McElroys, they don't even have all of TAZ transcribed last I checked (I believe their transcriptions go from Grad-Stolen Century, and anything before Stolen Century doesn't have one yet. I may be wrong on that.)

I will not speak on the other grievances and issues people have brought up in the show. The topics I covered are the only ones I feel comfortable speaking on on a public platform, where my words can sway opinions.

There is no TL;DR, because as I said in the beginning; if you can't read this, you aren't listening well enough nor willing to actually discuss the issues you have. You're looking for something to be mad about. Period, end of discussion.

I don't say that to act like I'm some authority on this, or some higher being above all of you for "being forgiving." Because, frankly I don't forgive them. I will continue to support them for making steps in the right direction, and upping their game. But, I won't forgive them for their jokes or the brief lack of precaution in the server. But, I will move on and I will support them. Because, as a victim of the problems people brought up in those situations, the steps the took are the best ones they could have. And I am grateful for that.

If other survivors read this and disagree, you're perfectly valid in that. We all went something, and it effects each of us differently. My heart goes out to you, as well, I know how isolating and genuinely terrifying those experiences and situations can be.

To those who aren't survivors and have read this; I beg you to think about this.

I am open to discussion further on this, but to an extent. There are some opinions I hold in this message that I will flat out tell you to not debate me on, not because of anything other than what I said in this post was hard enough to me to say.

Thank you for your time. EDIT: I implore anyone reading to the read the notes on this post, more information and discussion can be found and all of it is just as important. 

[dingbingbats]

i feel like calling it discourse seriously undermines the potential repercussions of the cast and discord mods’ actions but anyways my general take on the situation is that this shit really needs to be addressed. at the least, consultants should be brought in. im kinda questioning whether i can even continue the show with everything that has repeatedly happen. i think at this point im going to just ride it out because there isn’t much left in the show, but i think i won’t have any more non-”””discourse””” dndads reblogs. i’d make a “anyways stan (dimension 20/quest friends)” but im not even feeling that tbh

[meiwks]

Hey y’all, I know calling out problems in things you like is important but I’d like to remind everybody that

-not everybody wants/has to be involved

-this is a comfort show for many people

-fanartists/writers don’t need to stop making things for the show to recognize the flaws

-you’re still allowed to like a show that has problematic elements

Thank you!