#eoerp

[rnanyeo]

truly, thank you for everything you've posted and done. sadly these people will never admit or think that they are wrong, but can't say i'm surprised because you can still find people who believe slavery should be reinstated and that the holocaust was a good thing.

thanks for the message! i’m glad it opened up a discussion considering my initial reblog was to kind of put my opinions on the table for consideration. while the admins may not have valued or looked too closely at them, i’m glad that what i’ve said resonated with others based on some of the asks i’ve gotten and some other blogs that ended up entering the discussion. unfortunately you cannot make people listen, but i’m glad some awareness was spread!!

[rnanyeo]

i'm mostly aghast at people in the tag seeking oppressor/oppressed romantic relationships for their chars. did they miss the whole RITA scandal of a few weeks ago? using a horrific event as a redemption arc to get your "feels" on is reprehensible & i hope the admins take a stand on that, if they do anything. thanks for opening this discussion!

yeah it definitely is, i have a super, super big problem with people romanticizing real struggles of peoples lives. i see it on rp a lot - whether it be sexual abuse, emotional abuse, mental illness, a whole array of things that are inappropriate and they do not bother to understand the impact that certain situations, illnesses, struggles have on people. some things are more than just a plot device, and they shouldn’t be used as a roadblock to a relationship, and they will not disappear because your character is now in love. especially with an oppressor/oppressed relationship there is also a level of coercion that is always present that goes unchecked and ignored the vast amount of the time. it’s definitely not a great thing to do, and its a very cliched, lazy way of writing. and no problem,  i didn’t really know it would get quite as big as it has, thanks for the ask though!

[rnanyeo]

you should check out allthingsroleplay and their stance on the matter. apparently they think it's okay to condone this, but people are outraged with atr for saying that (look at the reblogs). it's really sickening to see how people are trying to justify this as okay. i'm going to pray for every single one of them.

i just went and checked them out, thanks for the tip! one thing i do have issue with is this:

“One thing I feel like some roleplayers these days forget is that even if a character is a murderer, racist, homophobic, or any other sort of path you want to take them down.. that does NOT mean the player believes those things, or that it makes them right. As writers being able to write from multiple perspectives with taboo topics and things that others may not agree with is a great ability to possess.”

while a role player may not believe these things, it still can be damaging for uneducated people (and I’m not saying anyone who is still in hs, who hasn’t studied a topic has a lack of knowledge in general, but rather do not posses the full breadth of knowledge needed to be able to approach certain standpoints from a way that doesn’t spiral into the role of a sympathizer).of course you might say, ‘well no, i don’t believe those things so I’m not a sympathizer!’ but taking things from a certain individuals pov has been done in order to humanize the people behind the masks. yes, a member of the kkk might love his family and dote on his son billy, but that does not make him a good person, and it is in a way excusing these acts to point out the good in people who aren’t. this can be very damaging!!! people are multi-faceted, there definitely are things going on in their lives and issues are not white and black. but is it okay to explore the psyche of a kkk member, to try and portray them in a way that humanizes the apparent ‘good’ aspects of their personality and puts their flaws on the backburner? to show that they are so much more than the racist rhetoric that they uphold? my answer to that is no, because it has been proved as something damaging, and it’s frowned on. especially when the platform that these characters, these plots, these stories are being built on are roleplaying sites. this is a hobby for people, these plots do not reach a great number of people, most don’t even branch out to read anyone’s threads other than their own. this is for you, for your entertainment and nothing more. the fact that it’s trying to be elevated like it’s some scholarly masterpiece, like they’re on such a high plane of self-awareness and that their writing somehow circumvents things that people have been correcting and fighting for years and years is kind of…not a great argument. 

I also want to look at this quote:

“You glaze over that these events, that these things and people that believe these ways of life are okay, do exist… we’re not here to say “you can’t do that”.”

because I’ve seen a few people trying to construct a strawman to argue with instead of me. if people have bothered to read through my points (silly me though, why would they do that), i have stated multiple times i’m not after the erasure of history, that i’m not trying to quiet people from discussing events in history, but rather looking at the context, research, and platform that these issues are being revealed from. so i’m really not sure why they’re trying to make this my standpoint - maybe because it’s easier to argue with than my actual points? 

however i am glad to see that multiple people are taking issue with this based on the reblogs, and that it’s a more serious issue than ‘just a character, just a site, just a roleplay plot’ - if it was just any of those things, then there wouldn’t be such a large amount of people who take offense to it, or see a problem with it.

[rnanyeo]

i can see that, definitely. there are going to be members who haven't done their research, are basing their characters off movies/tv/books, and unknowingly romanticizing the subject for the sake of plots. and, as a historian who specializes in 19th and 20th century europe, i would never want to see the memory of those who went through wwii to be dishonored. but eoe isn't the only historical rp out there, & they seem to be getting all the criticism & hate. this is a much larger issue than eoe.

tbh i haven’t been on western rp in years and i’m sure there are more. i was linked this one by someone who is involved with the community who was upset and i agreed with their sentiments. however, should they go unchecked just because “everyone else is doing it?” i don’t really think that’s a good argument. it is much larger than eoe, but people realizing that it is a problem has to start somewhere. and if it’s with eoe, then awesome, and if not, then hopefully it catches on somewhere else. i have gotten asks from people who said they hadn’t realized why it can be problematic, that they’re glad they got my viewpoint on the subject, so if a few people understand my stance then i’m happy. i don’t really know what else to tell you. i definitely am not trying to start a crusade against all rps ever, i’m not planning on tracking down and messaging every single wwii rp out there. i don’t understand why i should be mandated too just because i pointed out eoe isn’t great just so that it’s “fair.” i’m sorry if this sounds catty but i’ve been answering asks from their followers all day and then they’re trying to point fingers like i’m trying to stir up trouble when people are literally asking me to talk about points.

[frankflanflakes]

Our intentions with this site, which most of you have never seen the full plot of, is not to glorify anyone. WWII was full of a lot of good guys, a lot of bad guys, and a lot somewhere in between. It was full of a lot of victims, a lot of survivors, and a lot of oppressors. The world then seems so far removed from our own due to the massive amounts of life lost and life completely butchered in the name of 'progress'. But it is not. People existed here. People died here. People we knew, and people we loved. Some we've come to identify with time, some who've faded into the background noise of the overwhelming amount of suffering.

We exist to explore the world they lived in through a collaborative effort. All of them. Which can be a complicated moral issue for some, but we've never hidden what sort of site we are. We do require that our members be at least eighteen years of age, and will hold them to a certain standard of knowledge and sensitivity surrounding the topic.

But for some of you, that's not enough. And while I can understand your feelings, I don't share them. And neither do our followers, or our staff. We are committed to the site and the historical setting. As you've mentioned, you'll have a problem with us existing as long as we exist so there's not much to say on it at this point. Any vitriol launched our way is simply that, and we won't tolerate hate or harassment lobbed our way. We will not give you a platform for your anger or outrage. You have your own space for that, and we can respect that. We ask that you respect us in a similar way.

If you'd like to talk, I have aim. You can send me an ask and I'll give it to you and we can have a conversation about it.

[rnanyeo]

thanks so much for taking the time to answer my earlier question. i have to say though that i do feel like the debate has gone from being being thought-provoking and highly intelligent to being more than a bit judgmental when it comes to the admins =/. i understand that there are a lot of people who feel strongly about EOE, but is shaming the admins and people who want to join the answer? we've only seen snippets of the site. how can we tell that they are doing what they are being accused of?

i’m not really sure what you’re asking me….my stance has been the same the entire way through and my points on why i don’t agree are the same as when i started. i’ve never shamed anyone, i’ve just repeated that people who do not have the knowledge required to accurately put together a historical-fiction piece that doesn’t trivialize things shouldn’t be doing it. the entire premise of the site is what i’m against, so no matter what they do i won’t like it. 

however, they’ve blocked me in an attempt to quiet me, delete asks from people who do not agree and only publish people who agree with them. if i could reblog though i would bring attention to this point on their latest ask;

“cheap facsimiles are more, not less, offensive.” 

here’s the definition of facsimiles: an exact copy, especially of written or printed material.

so by definition, they are a cheap facsimile. not really sure where they were going with that (maybe the work of a thesaurus word pick gone wrong?) - but they’re right, it’s definitely offensive!

[rnanyeo]

i can't believe they're still considering opening this roleplay. i used to roleplay with etta and allie on terminus, but i will never join a site they ever make again because of their actions. they should be ashamed. any one who joins this site should be ashamed. it's truly horrific. how dare they make light of the suffering of so many people just to try and "triumph and save them11!!!1!". such a white savior complex. it's truly disgusting. i want to throw up.

tbh i don’t really know who the admins are, i sort of just got linked to the site by someone and i though it was really inappropriate as well. but i definitely agree with you that i think it’s out of bounds and the way they’re trying to argue it is a little baffling to me. hopefully they’ll reconsider opening it, but they seem adamant in their ways /:

[rnanyeo]

i've been reading your comments on the EOE site, and i do find them really interesting. i think your points are eloquent. i was interested in knowing though if you find movies, novels, etc. that deal with the same issues trivializing too. if not, what do you think it about an rp site that makes it more susceptible to trivialization?

thank you! to me it really depends how these things are handled. one big thing  that bugs historians is a movie that leans more toward a pure entertainment factor rather than an accurate one for the sake of a plot or keeping the audience entertained (be it through action, romance, or a ‘hero’ character). when the truth is erased in favor of entertainment value it can become problematic simply because the media has a huge, huge influence on people in the world (whether they realize it or not) and unless you take classes on certain subjects or invest yourself in researching something you might not even realize it just because that  has been the way things are presented to us. so someone may start believing things happened a certain way, or that they aren’t as big of a deal, etc. just because they’ve seen it in a movie based on ‘true events’ (which is a silly moniker in and of itself because you really don’t even need much truth in order to stamp this on).

there definitely are some movies, books, other mediums that deal with things appropriately. for instance, if a historian (or reporter, writer, etc.) went around conducting interviews, research, and understood the magnanimity behind the event(s) and realize how important it is to so many people and are focused on actually shedding light on what people went through, what their stories are, what actually happened then i am completely fine with it. i’m definitely not saying nobody should ever talk about these things, that we should wipe them from history and forget, because i definitely don’t! i really just think it depends on the context, tone and aim of a project.  i’m quoting this article because i agree with their sentiment here, “Films use Nazis as bad guys for good reason: They were bad guys. But all too often, genocidal Germans act as cartoon crutches for storytellers looking to pit good against incontrovertible evil.” so i do think that there are some projects that trivialize things, (nazi zombies, anyone?), but i wouldn’t throw a blanket statement out saying all are good and all are bad (sometimes something can be good but not entirely spot on, too) but you should definitely use your discretion (is it historically accurate, is it removing elements, is it trivializing the plights that people faced, would some people obviously be offended by it?). 

just because they got the money to roll out their work on a big screen doesn’t necessarily mean its okay - hollywood definitely puts an emphasis on certain perspectives, looks, races and stories so sometimes you have to make sure that these works aren’t quieting, replacing the real stories in the process. as far as the rp goes, i think it falls into trivialization because they are constructing fake events, and i would bet my hand not all of them are delving into archives to make sure things are accurate, creating plots (for fun/entertainment value, nothing else but to explore these ‘dark themes’ with their characters), and glorifying a time in life  that was an incredible struggle for many people (and yes, talking about how their characters will ‘triumph’ over the evils present is definitely glorifying).