Yesssss. Frank had so much potential and I feel like some of it carried through but also the ball dropped on him a little:
HE DID NOT GET SKINNY. He just got a little taller because size difference slaps and also I think it's funny that he was already pretty fucking tall and yet Mars was like "you're too short, here's a couple more inches pipsqueak", like bro
Deals with depersonalization - the more he shapeshifts, the more he starts to lose touch with his humanity. Eventually he just can't recognize himself in the mirror, his body feels weird, like a skinsuit he's stuck in, something someone zipped over his head and no matter how hard he tries he can't reach the zipper to get out
When he's really going through it, he shapeshifts into whatever animal (or animal combo) makes him feel a little more settled. But even as an animal, he doesn't always feel there. It's a permanent unsettlement now, and he just has to make the changes to get through it
He can mix-and-match animal traits. I know it's canon that he can't but like, idc, i wrote it in a fic and I think it fits his depersonalization struggles, like he'll fuck with as many body parts, traits, etc, to get something that feels okay and the output sometimes isn't a bear, but a bear with tiger legs and a lizard tail and so on
He doesn't get along with the Ares cabin. they're too rough and tumble, Mars is more disciplined than that so he finds their anger and violence unnecessary and sometimes distasteful
Despite that, he gets angry pretty easily. However, he dislikes his own anger so he sort of separates it from himself and, as such, doesn't always recognize when he is angry (I think Jason is a little similar sometimes). Like Jason, as well, he tends to see his anger as more of a rational thing rather than an emotional response
He speaks French better than he speaks Chinese
He's pretty introverted and doesn't really enjoy socializing
He can play the violin! His grandmother put him in lessons when he was very young. He's rusty as he hasn't played in a long time, since he quit a year or two before he left for Camp Jupiter. He's always been a big strong boy so his grandmother thought the violin would help him learn to be more delicate and aware of his movements
The only person he's ever really been attracted to is Hazel. He's probably gray-aroace, but he doesn't care enough to think further on it. He knows he likes Hazel and he doesn't really need to look at it any more than that
He and Nico play Mythomagic with each other. Not on a regular basis but whenever one of them gets a new pack or if Nico is hanging around for a little longer than a couple days. They both agree that the games are just for fun but they still get competitive about winning anyway and are 100% keeping score in their heads
Personally I have no specific ideas for Zia having DID. I will say, that DID occurs from repeat childhood trauma causing an inability to form a cohesive identity, whereas the childhood trauma we know Zia to have was the one-time event.
HOWEVER, it is strange to me that she completely lost all memories of her life prior to being found by Iskander. If she were younger when it happened, I'd think it'd make more sense for her not to recall her family. I mean, yeah, people often block traumatic events from memory, but there's definitely a difference between blocking the memory of your village being destroyed and completely forgetting everything that happened before you were eight years old. If she already has issues with her memory though...
We also know (or at least it was heavily implied IIRC) that Zia had been receiving memories from her shabti in The Red Pyramid. Yet she had little to no recollection of Carter when she was freed in the following book. Where did those memories go then?
I think it's certainly an interesting idea to explore, and is easily doable with the fact that Zia remembers next to nothing about her childhood, so fans can easily make things up about her upbringing. It would also be interesting if the Zia shabti was (unintentionally) modelled after a specific part and that's one of the reasons she has no familiarity/connection with Carter despite everything in the prior book.
In any case, she could certainly struggle with other dissociative disorders as well.
For the super cool character headcanons meme, Nico di Angelo (only if you want to!)
2-4 songs that are probably on their iPod: To be honest, I don't normally consider the type of music characters listen to. Nico would likely harbor a lot of preference for the music he grew up with, but unfortunately I don't listen to any opera, so I'll go with:
Lady in Red by Chris de Burgh (one of my granny's favourites, lol)
Second Child, Restless Child by The Oh Hellos
Glitter and Gold by Barnes Courtney
Home by Good Neighbors
the one place they sometimes end up falling asleep — where they’re not supposed to: The void, lol. He's not supposed to go to sleep in there, but sometimes he slips into the shadows while half-asleep and drifts off in the cool arms of Erebus until he wakes up or Hades comes by and carries him out 😂
the game they’d destroy everyone else at: Mythomagic (canon). Monopoly (headcanon). Hazel's the exception. They're both ruthless.
the emoticon they’d use most often:
emoticon: :) because it's simple and also i'm not too familiar with all the different emoticons
emoji: 💀(skull emoji) (he's nothing if not on theme)
what they act like when they haven’t had enough sleep: internally, he's screaming nonstop, body breaking down (and it's already in active decay so this just makes it worse). on the outside, completely functional. however, the more prolonged and intense the sleeplessness, the more noticeable it becomes as his powers become less contained (e.g. small patches of grass dying beneath his feet).
their preferred hot beverage on really cold nights. or mornings. or whenever: pomegranate tea
how they like to comfort/care for themselves when they’re in a slump: turn on some quiet music, curl up in a thick comforter and rest in a corner in the pitch dark like the cave-dweller he is. if he needs a bigger pick-me-up, he'll schedule a session with Pasithea or go bury himself alive for a few hours (very refreshing)
what they wanted to be when they grew up: pilot. he thought they looked cool.
their favorite kind of weather: overcast
thoughts on their singing voice (decent? terrible? soprano? alto?): i think he can sing! nothing too spectacular, but nice to listen to (heavenly if you're dead).
how/what they like to draw or doodle: he prefers to draw nature. he used to doodle fish a lot as a little kid and was quite proud of himself with how they turned out but then his crush on percy happened and he became really embarrassed about it. switched to plants and trees. then he got turned into a plant twice. switched to gems. so far so good.
I just finished reading your posts on Yukio having AVPD and/or OCPD and I just wanted to say how much love your analyses on him. He's such a complex character who's so misunderstood by so many people (don't get me started on Yukio haters who base their opinion of him solely on what they've seen in the anime...) and that has always left me wondering what mental issues he could be dealing with. I'm by no means a mental health expert, but I've recently been researching BPD and Yukio immediately came to my mind. It became a headcanon of mine that he has BPD because the symptoms seem very consistent with Yukio's behavior and I was wondering if this is a disorder you think he could possibly have.
Also, I just found out you're the author of AOEX Misc Shorts, which I ABSOLUTELY LOVE!!!
Thank you! I’m glad you liked the drabbles, and my thoughts on Yukio’s various mental health issues 😂
I’m not a mental health expert either – just a guy who likes reading up on mental health disorders. I have actually made a post a while back about Rin and Yukio both having BPD – Rin with a classic, overt BPD and Yukio having quiet BPD – as a concept of them both being more similar than they think. So yes, I do think BPD is fitting for Yukio (and Rin). I haven’t applied much thought on it because I figured AVPD and OCPD applied to him more significantly, and I wanted to explore them at greater depth. Non-Cluster B PDs tend to get little consideration when it comes to headcanons (or just general knowledge), so I like analyzing them when I feel it’s applicable.
But, yes, I do think Yukio (and Rin) fit. BPD is commonly comorbid with AVPD, so it wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility for Yukio to have both. He’s also just. So mentally ill, like, there is no number of problems he could have, let’s be real.
To get into a little more, let’s engage in some long-winded analysis and rambling! Yay!!
So, first, I want to explain that quiet BPD isn’t an official diagnosis but often used to explain when someone’s symptoms are more internalized than externalized. Now, the DSM-5 diagnostic criteria states that patients must have a persistent pattern of unstable relationships, self-image, and emotions (ie, emotional dysregulation) and pronounced impulsivity, shown by at least five of the following:
Desperate efforts to avoid abandonment (actual or imagined)
Unstable, intense relationships that alternate between idealizing and devaluing the other person
An unstable self-image or sense of self
Impulsivity in two or more areas that could harm themselves
Repeated suicidal behavior and/or gestures or threats or self-mutilation
Rapid changes in mood, lasting usually only a few hours and rarely more than a few days
Persistent feelings of emptiness
Inappropriately intense anger or problems controlling anger
Temporary paranoid thoughts or severe dissociative symptoms triggered by stress
For Rin, I would say it’s 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 (that’s seven of nine), and for Yukio, I would say it’s 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, and 9 (also seven of nine). The last one for Yukio is more personal belief given the amount of stress he’s under daily. Being susceptible to dissociation, especially as a result of constant emotional repression, feels very plausible.
With point seven, persistent feelings of emptiness, I think it fits the both of them as an exacerbation of the other symptoms experienced. It manifests as sort of a hollowness or void-like sensation, and can create a barrier or wall separating someone from a sense of purpose, fulfillment, emotional connection, etc.
In-depth reasoning for the other factors:
Point 2: I think this is more related to the twin’s relationship with each other, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it also included Shiro, especially, for Yukio, when he was Shiro’s student. Rin and Yukio’s relationship does tend to have an intensity to it on both sides. Yukio struggles a lot with his feelings regarding Rin, in a way that Rin doesn’t. But I do think they both have a hard time with viewing the other as fully faceted person. I think this is pretty obvious with Yukio - his focus on Rin’s strength, his power, his relationships with other people. Similarly, Rin often views Yukio as a perfect person and this is either a positive thing (he’s so smart!) or a negative thing (he’s belittling me!).
I think Rin much more idealizes Yukio, and Yukio much more devalues Rin, but either way, they both kind of see each other as the “ideal” person. For Yukio, this backfires as he gets jealous and angry due to other issues and so he ends up devaluing Rin frequently because it’s the only way for him to survive his own feelings. For Rin, this backfires because he ends up hating on himself and/or getting mad at Yukio for being "perfect", which only serves to idealize Yukio even more, especially because he is not privy to the internal feelings Yukio experiences.
Point 3: An unstable sense of self often includes excessive self-criticism, feelings of guilt and/or shame, and the sense that you are “bad”. As a result, people who struggle with a sense of self may suddenly change opinions, careers, goals, and often feel like they don’t know who they are. They may lack a sense of direction in life, or feel like they don’t have purpose/reason to exist.
This is usually one of the reasons that people with BPD can become very quickly attached to other people or concepts. Since they don’t have an internal or stable sense of self, they may try to gain one through external means. When those means no longer serve them, they sever all ties to it.
They’ll struggle with emotional regulation, boundaries, trust, etc.
For Rin, this is most evident. Pretty much from infancy, people have seen him as a bad person and, despite attempts from Shiro, Yukio and other people close to him, he definitely has internalized that. He lacks self-direction and has no clear goals for his life. Even becoming Paladin isn’t really something he wants. It’s just an impulsive thing he says because he was angry. He chooses to become an exorcist because it’s the only option he has for survival and he wants to protect Yukio (before he finds out Yukio has known this whole time). Despite that, he doesn’t put as much effort as the others do into it. He doesn’t have a positive perception of himself. In fact, I think, at least in childhood, it’s through Yukio that he’s able to perceive himself positively in any way. He protects him and he feeds him and, despite all his horribleness, Yukio loves him, so he can’t be too horrible, right?
For Yukio, it’s a little more subtle. He has a clear stated goal at the start – to become a doctor – and presumably he’s still working towards that. But as the series moves on, we see that Yukio still perceives himself as a crybaby weakling, even though he’s not that child anymore. It’s a massive sore spot. He’s incredibly self-critical and self-loathing. He doesn’t seem to like himself as a person. I think a large part of him also only really sees his purpose, especially now, as being Rin’s caretaker. Which is why he gets so quickly frustrated with Rin because all that work he’d been doing to protect Rin suddenly became pointless. As soon as he discovers information about Shiro and the Order he immediately denounces the whole thing and leaves. But after confessing all his feelings to Rin, he's talked about being a teacher for the cram school again.
Point 4: Lol, does this part really need explanation? Rin’s impulsive behaviour is more obvious, but Yukio also shows impulsive behaviours in ways that could harm him. His suicide attempts, pointing a gun at Mephisto, ripping off his protective gear when he was trying to heal that kid in the Impure King arc, blowing up the airship while he was still inside, etc.
Point 5: Yukio is most obvious here. Rin, however, does show repeated suicidal/self-mutilating behaviours. Because it’s not backed by obvious thoughts of wanting to die or hurt himself, I think people tend to skim past it, and, for sure, you can certainly argue against him fitting this part. But going back to unstable sense of self and how Rin already does not like himself and has considered at different points whether or not he should exist, I do think there’s an argument to be made. He cares very little for his physical well-being, frequently getting into fights throughout childhood and intentionally putting himself in harm’s way. His healing factor also makes it easier to ignore. So I am more 50-50 on Rin with this point, but, lol, Yukio all the way!
Point 6: Rin does show a lot of rapid mood changes through the series. He expresses himself much more overtly, so they’re easier to notice. Him being sour but immediately brightening up when Shiro offers meat for dinner at the start, being excited to see Kyoto then despondent when the others ignore him then happy again when Izumo doesn’t, being panicked for Shiemi then immediately angry with Ryuuji on the train, feeling serious when going to save Yukio then happy when Yukio tells him he didn’t actually join the Illuminati, etc. Yukio, on the other hand, doesn’t really show a lot of rapid mood changes the way Rin does, and when we do have access to his inner thoughts and emotions, he doesn’t seem to show any changes. Even when he’s feigning otherwise, his emotion – usually frustration – remains steady.
Point 8: Lol, yeah. They both frequently experience intense anger. Rin has a hard time controlling it, where Yukio is better at disguising it. It’s still there though.
And to get a little more into it, let’s look at the Alternative Model of Personality Disorder. Part A states that a “moderate of greater impairment in personality functioning manifested by characteristic difficulties in two or more of the following four areas:
Identity: Markedly impoverished, poorly developed, or unstable self-image, often associated with excessive self-criticism; chronic feelings of emptiness; dissociative states under stress
Self-direction: Instability in goals, aspirations, values, or career plans
Empathy: Compromised ability to recognize the feelings and needs of others associated with interpersonal hypersensitive (i.e. prone to feel slighted or insulted); perceptions of others selectively biased toward negative attributes or vulnerabilities
Intimacy: Intense, unstable, and conflicted close relationships, marked by mistrust, neediness, and anxious preoccupation with real or imagined abandonment; close relationship often viewed in extremes of idealization and devaluation and alternating between overinvolvement and withdrawal
I think identity and intimacy are applicable for both, and self-direction is most applicable for Rin. Both have been discussed previously. Empathy is a curious one. While they’re both prone to feeling slighted or insulted, I don’t think this compromises Rin’s ability to recognize the feelings or needs of others and I’m not too sure if it does or doesn’t with Yukio. I don’t think Rin focuses his perceptions of other people selectively on their negative attributes or vulnerabilities. I think Yukio might, or would be most likely to, but can’t recall any specific moments.
Part B of BPD under the AMPD states that once part A has been satisfied, the person should showcase at least four of the following pathological personality traits, at least one of which must be Impulsivity, Risk Taking, or Hostility:
Emotional Lability: Unstable emotional experiences and frequent mood changes; emotions that are easily aroused, intense, and/or out of proportion to events and circumstances
Anxiousness: Intense feelings of nervousness, tenseness, or panic, often in reaction to interpersonal stresses; worry about the negative effects of past unpleasant experiences and future negative possibilities; feeling fearful, apprehensive, or threatened by uncertainty; fears of falling apart or losing control
Separation Insecurity: Fears of rejection by – and/or separation from – significant others, associated with fears of excessive dependency and complete loss of autonomy
Depressivity: Frequent feelings of being down, miserable, and/or hopeless; difficulty recovering from such moods; pessimism about the future; pervasive shame, feelings of inferior self-worth; thoughts of suicide and suicidal behaviour
Impulsivity: Acting on the spur of the moment in response to immediate stimuli; acting on a momentary basis without a plan or consideration of outcomes; difficulty establishing or following plans; a sense of urgency and self-harming behaviour under emotional distress
Risk Taking: Engagement in dangerous, risky, and potentially self-damaging activities, unnecessarily and without regard to consequences; lack of concern for one’s limitations and denial of the reality of personal danger
Hostility: Persistent or frequent angry feelings; anger of irritability in response to minor slights and insults
For Yukio:
Anxiousness (which is also a required trait under AVPD in the AMPD)
Depressivity
Impulsivity
Hostility
For Rin:
Emotional lability
Separation insecurity
Depressivity
Impulsivity
Risk taking
Hostility
With Rin and separation insecurity, I know it specifies “significant others” but I think that specification needs to be broadened because this, to me, fits his feelings about Yukio. I think one of Rin’s biggest fears is that Yukio doesn’t need him as much as he needs Yukio. It’s pretty clear from how quick he was to be like “okay, well Yukio and I will just run away forever and if we can’t, I’ll stay with him anyway” that being separated from Yukio is not it for him. Additionally, Yukio rejecting him before leaving with Renzou – and then rejecting him a second time on the airship – causes him to freak out very intensely, and later is the reason he starts to lose the battle with his inner demon.
Additionally, some people who have more than one personality disorder find that each PD tends to be more significant in certain situations. I’ve seen some people with combo BPD-AVPD note that their AVPD tends to be most notable in general, but when they’re in a relationship, they find their BPD traits are most notable, or vice versa.
For others, they may consider one their “key” PD and the others are just tacked on, or they see the others as a consequence of the initial. Think of it as like “AVPD with BPD and OCPD.” The secondary PDs typically feeds into the initial PD, rather than existing on their own.
Hi! I wanna ask about your hc's for frank and hazel? Individually or as a relationship or even hot takes are totally okay ✨
Hazel
Suffers from derealization as a result of not being properly reborn. It eases up as she gets older and becomes more grounded in her new life, but it never fully fades away
She's 15 at the start of HoO (tbh i always thought her being 15 was canon and never realized it wasn't until people started pointing it out in their RR crit posts)
She's straight
She learned Chinese to surprise Frank (and low-key impress his grandmother) and she actually speaks it better than he does
After she leaves Camp Jupiter, she works full-time as a freelance business manager and accountant. Her main clients are Annabeth and Leo (and they both just really want to make things so their business practices drives her up the wall)
In her free time, she likes to sew. A lot of her clothes are handmade. She sewed her wedding dress, and helped tailor Frank's tux
Hazel is extroverted. People often assume differently because she's a child of Pluto and tends to be quiet and reserved, but she really likes socializing with other people. She will often find an excuse to throw parties at her and Frank's house
She doesn't have a lot of friends though because, like her father, she is very peticular about who she shares her space and time with
Frank
Suffers from depersonalization as a result of constant shapeshifting. It never eases up but he learns to live with it. Some days are harder than others.
The one animal he will not shapeshift into is a bee
Frank's sexuality is Hazel. Does that mean he's straight? No. It means Hazel
Hazel was his first real friend. He had kids he hung out with from school or because their family knew his family but there was never any closeness with people until he joined Camp Jupiter and met Hazel, so he's a lot more protective and possessive of her than she is of him
He wrestles Jason in wolf form a lot for fun. The game ends when one of them manages to bite the other person's throat, lol
In addition to war, Mars is also the god of the Roman people. So I think it would interesting if his kids were very good at socializing and getting along with people, but lack the ability to fully connect with someone on a personal level. Frank has excellent emotional depth and understanding, but between him and other people exists this line of disconnect that he can't seem to push past
This is one of the reasons he did not have any friends prior to Hazel and why he is not close to his family, outside of his mother and grandmother
Frank is a fairly solitary person. He enjoys people but he loses energy quickly. He helps Hazel with the parties, and afterwards he'll spend a significant amount of time as a cat or small dog decompressing
Even after the whole wheel and getting blessed thing in HoH, he still struggles with accepting that Mars is his dad. He has a lot of complex feelings about war, especially given its why his mom died, and having fought through one doesn't make it any easier.
He knows how to play the violin. He quit shortly after his mom's last deployment. It was one of the few times he argued back to his grandmother. He picks it up again after they have their first kid because they liked the sound of classical music, but he stops again after his grandmother dies
Frazel/Hank (lol)
One source of conflict is that Frank's taste in food is pretty plain (his grandmother mourns) and Hazel loves a lot of spice. He's usually pretty willing to try things for her, but god he hates it and if he's particularly overwhelmed or tired, he will let her know and they'll argue over him having the tastebuds of a white man (cue Nico in the background inhaling spicy curry like "does this mean i'm not white")
Otherwise they're one of those couples people think are perfect and you'd think that means secretly they're fighting and dreaming of killing each other but NOPE. They are SO FUCKING IN LOVE
They get engaged as soon as Hazel turns 18 (it was a dual proposal)
Their wedding was a very small ceremony: them, the officiant, Nico, Pluto, and Frank's grandmother. It took place a couple months after the engagement and they've framed the marriage certifacte above their bed
They like petplay
Frank gets kinda nervous about it because sometimes he loses his sense of humanity, even if he's not shifted, and he's always worried about hurting her but then she calls him a good boy and pets his head and he's like "oh my god this is the best thing in the world"
Frank having grown up rich and Hazel having grown up poor is another source of conflict. Hazel grew up pinching pennies, waiting until things were completely unusable to replace them, and trying to rig as many workable solutions to broken objects as possible whereas Frank notices the toilet isn't flushing and immediately calls a plumber just to pay a ridiculous amount of money to replace the chain
On the other end, Hazel gets very freaked out when their food depletes too quickly or when snacks don't last as long, even though Frank's build means he has to eat a lot, and the food can be easily replaced
She also doesn't buy groceries in large amounts because the cost of food is so much more than it was when she was younger (and it was still fairly cost prohibitive even then) so while buying in bulk would be smarter, the cost freaks her out
They've talked it through a lot though and worked through it together. Hazel has provided a generous budget that makes her feel safe but allows for some frivolity and they stick pretty well to it. Frank buys the bulk of their groceries (so Hazel doesn't have to see the price).
After they get engaged, he takes her to China to introduce her to his extended family. While a few members are openly not happy about it (racism), most of his family think Hazel is a nice girl and wish them well. Frank and Hazel aren't bothered by the racists because Frank is not close to his family and doesn't really have any intention of being so. Introducing his wife-to-be is just a courtesy so they're not like "whomst the fuck is this black girl" when the two of them start sending out Christmas cards, lol
Also his grandmother told him he had to and fuck if he's not gonna listen to his grandmother
Hazel, however, does actually start getting close to a couple of his cousins. His family owns a handful of successful businesses in China and few scattered through the world. So Hazel's business accumen is well regarded by the family members who have or are gearing up to take over those businesses
They plan on retiring back to Toronto one day so Frank can be easily buried with his mother and grandmother. Currently they live in New Rome. Hazel, however, will not buried with them. When she dies, Prosperina will take her body and use it to grow a tree. If she dies before Frank, a clipping will be buried with him. If she dies after Frank, Nico (or their kids, whoever's still alive) has to dig up his grave and put a clipping in with him
They have three kids and they love them to death.
Hot Takes
The "my lifeline is tied to a stick" subplot was pointless post SoN. Especially since apparently he ends up burning it all up and nothing happens. I think the smart thing to do would've been for Thanatos to get rid of it after Frank freed him. The stick serves no purpose after that and it neatly gets tucked away in Hazel's pocket then Leo's fireproof baggy. Thanatos could've easily thanked Frank for freeing him and as a reward, hey what if I take this death curse off your hands.
If the consequence must remain, let's say Thanatos informs Frank that in exchange for getting rid of the stick, Frank's life expectancy will be shaved off by X number of years and, maybe, that number will decrease based on Y action. But, hey, now he doesn't have to worry about the stick burning up.
Frank taking over as praetor in Jason's place is a cool moment, but dull in the aftermath. He doesn't become a leader on the ship. We never get to see him in action.
It also cheapens what it means to praetor. At first we get the implication that it is a prestigous position that people work hard to achieve. Then Percy gets elected into it after a week, most of which he didn't even spend as Camp Jupiter. Then Frank, who has never displayed any desire to be a leader, gets the position in a life or death situation and seemingly does nothing with it. Maybe in the post HoO books it's more obvious but I don't know since I never read them
Frank strikes me more as a second-in-command kind of person anyway. He doesn't want to make the big decisions but he'll help strategize and keep everyone else in line.
Now that I think about it, that moment with the ghosts refusing to obey Jason should've been like Nico's moment in TBotL where he declares he's the Ghost King. A reckoning of "I know who I am". Jason's whole arc is about not knowing where he belongs or which side he should choose. The books end on both places coming together (seemingly as one), so it would've been more thematic if Jason reconciled with that in the moment, declaring that he is both Roman and Greek, that one is not any more signifcant than the other, and they will obey his authority as his leader
do you have any more thoughts on npd!Annabeth? I love your takes so much - it explains so much
So this post has my initial thoughts on how I interpret Annabeth fitting the DSM criteria. As for other thoughts...
Personally I don't put too much stake in the sub-types of PDs because I think most people have a mix of traits from more than one. However, I do think it can be useful both for people trying to figure out their issues and a starting place for character work. Sub-types of any PD basically just break down different ways it may present in someone. As I understand it, there are a few sub-types for NPD, but the two most frequently spoken about are overt and covert. For me, Annabeth leans more towards overt narcissism.
Overt narcissism is generally viewed as stemming from a genuine view of one's own self-importance. Comparatively people with covert narcissism typically have deep insecurities and fears of failure/inferiority. Their narcissism is a projection meant to protect them. This is why covert NPD and AVPD can be mistaken for one another as both can stem from an extreme fear of rejection. But where covert NPD relies on a projection of superiority as a coping mechanism, AVPD relies on isolation.
Now, while Annabeth does lean more overt, she does have that fear of being less than others and is easily envious of other people's achievements, especially when they outshine her or she perceives them to have gotten something she deserves. But she is openly more grandiose (re: hubris), controlling and not as self-deprecating as may be seen in people with with covert NPD. When she receives criticism, she doesn't internalize and become depressed. She gets angry and rude. This is what I mean by people having a mix of traits among the sub-types.
I feel Annabeth is the type of person where you don't initially think of her as a narcissist, but once someone is like "she has NPD", you're like "oh yeah, I see that." Part of that is because she is a kind person and she gets along fairly well with other people. So she doesn't come off the way it's stereotyped. I don't think she masks much either, but because she grew up in an environment where her strengths thrived, she didn't have to. The praise and admiration she seeks is often praise and admiration she deserves.
So she often butts heads with people who did not grow up with her and thereby do not understand what a miracle of genius she is. I think the one person she struggles to get along with the most is Jason because of this. He grew up in an environment where teamwork was required and enforced. He personally believes that no one person is significantly better than the rest. So while he will praise her for an outstanding job, he won't lend her sole credit if someone else was also there, no matter how minor their role.
Since she's used to being touted as the best of the best, even if someone aided her, this doesn't go over well. Normally she would reject him immediately because this damages her ego, but because Jason is a child of Jupiter, chosen champion of Juno, former praetor of New Rome and Thalia's brother, she thinks of him as Special and Important and needs him to like her. Which he does! Just not to the extent she wants him to.
Her ability to get along well with others is also part of her NPD. She needs everyone to like her. She needs people to want to be around her. It strokes her ego.
Most people she interacts with are not Important or Special, but she is kind and friendly to them anyway because she is a nice person. Also being kind ensures that people continue to think of her as Important and Special. Because she is the world's most special princess, she prioritizes interacting with people who are also the world's most special princesses. Which is why she latches onto Percy so quick even though she thinks they're not supposed to be friends because of their parents. He is Special and Important and being around him will make her even more Special and Important.
Percy prioritizing his friendship with Grover drives her up the wall because she is Special and, while she does genuinely like and care about him, Grover is still just a neurotic anxious satyr who failed to do the one thing he's supposed to do. He is Not Special.
I have talked/joked about Annabeth and Leo starting their own business. Leo is a mathematics and engineering prodigy. Annabeth is not. So he often sees flaws her in her plans and she hates it so so much. She also prefers aesthetic whereas he prefers function. She wants it to look amazing. He just wants it to work. So he'll often have to talk her down from something overly extravagant and she hates that so so much.
Sometimes he doesn't see a flaw, he just sees missed potential, but she can't stand that either. Honestly she probably hates that more than when he notices a mistake.
She probably splits on him quite a bit because of this dynamic and it's definitely not healthy. Because she still needs him to value her, I think it would be uncommon for her to be explicit about the shift in thinking. She won't be upfront, she'll just knock him down a peg more subtly. Be a little ruder, a little shorter, a little more dismissive. And then eventually her mood settles and she shifts back to positive and they're fine until it happens again.
Definitely not healthy. But I don't see her recognizing this pattern and Leo does not have a healthy enough self-esteem to tell her to fuck off. If he's got AVPD tacked on top, he probably hides from her or self-deprecates until she's nice again.
It's difficult because I think Leo, for all his class clown antics, is fairly socially aware. Yeah, he tends to think of people looking down on him so the accuracy of that awareness is questionable but I think he picks up on shifts in mood and behaviour, so even if she's subtle about it, he knows she's pissed. It's not hard to pinpoint why. I think this makes it harder for him to speak candidly about her mistakes. He'll try to sugarcoat it in a joke or two but the sugarcoating just makes her feel worse because how dare he say she made a mistake and also treat her like a child.
That being said, Annabeth is well aware that Leo is a prodigy, even if that fact annoys her, so when her mind isn't trying to convince her that he does not deserve to associate with her because he's the world's worst person, she genuinely does enjoy working with him and is willing to learn new things from him. For her, I think Leo is a Special person, which would surprise him. He's not Important, but he's definitely Special and so she wants to hang out with him. I think he'd also be into architecture, but since that's not a passion for him, it allows her to show off and be better than him while also bonding.
When it comes to Special and Important People, I don't mean it in a favourite person sense either. She may sense that someone is Special (and Important) but not associate with or even like them. For example, Nico would be a Special (and occasionally Important, quest depending) person but she doesn't go out of her way to spend time with him.
When it comes to FPs, I've seen the respective term used be Equal Person (as in someone they consider to be equal to them) or Chosen Person (as in people they don't consider to be equal to them but care for deeply). But I'll just use FP going forward.
From what I've come to understand (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), with NPD, FPs are seen as kind of extension of the self. With BPD, an FP is a very large source of that person's identity and often a very key part in their ability to emotionally regulate. With NPD, it's more like they're an extra limb.
With this, I think Percy would probably be Annabeth's FP. She has very specific expectations of their future, he is typically willing to go along with whatever she wants or plans, he thinks highly of her, and she doesn't really bother with his interests but he is happy to engage with hers. Outside of PJOverse, this is mostly because Percy doesn't really have any clear interests. The books are very plot based, which is fine, and Percy is kind of a blank slate from which the readers learn Greek myths and such, so where other characters have their "specializations" that help advance the plot and teach us, Percy doesn't.
In universe, and specifically within this AU, this can be written off as Annabeth having trouble seeing Percy as his own person.
I think before Percy, Luke was probably her FP. And it's because he is an extension of her that she has trouble seeing him as the enemy up until the fifth book. He cannot be bad because she is not bad. Once she's able to understand it, Luke is dropped and Percy takes his place. This is bolstered by the fact that they are dating and Percy wants to make her happy.
So! When Percy has BPD, I typically write his mom and Grover as being his FPs. However, while she is not an FP in that Percy never fully idealizes her, when neither of them are around or available, she becomes a key source of his identity. His attachment is likely very fulfilling for her as it boosts her ego.
When trying to be canon compliant, I can see her utilizing their move to New Rome as both a way to ensure he continues to follow the plan she's setup for him (even if he himself doesn't care about it) and have him to rely on her in such a way that he continues to be an extension of her, rather than his own person.
When it comes to her siblings, canonically we don't get much insight on her relationship with them. Coupled with Athena favouring her (the invisibility hat, architect of Olympus post, something else I'm probably forgetting), I imagine her relationship with her demigod half-siblings lacks any real closeness. Whether consciously or not, she doesn't think of them as equal to her. She is their mother's favourite girl and she knows it and they know it.
I don't think she intentionally flaunts it at them. But she doesn't have the self-awareness to be humble about it when they're around. And on a surface level, she looks at her siblings and sees Athena's children, and as Athena's children they should be logical and smart and therefore understand that she is more Special than them and not care about it when she shows off for other people.
Unfortunately, they are more than just Athena's kids so it doesn't work like that. If she were to actually pay attention, she's probably recognize that her siblings are far closer to each other than to her. Whether or not this would bother her is debatable.
Alright, this is. Long. 😅 So I will leave it off here.
Hi! What are your thoughts on the possibility that Rin won't age like a human, that he'll live, likely, for centuries. What do you think Rin's thoughts would be like on this? What about Yukio?
Feel free to take this as a Prompt or just an Ask :)
Thanks,
~Shay
So I have thought about Rin's longevity before! One thing I've noticed is that no other directly descended Nephilim, such as the clones or Iblis's son, have demon hearts. When Amaimon took over one of Mephisto's clones, they knew it because his demon heart sprouted from the clone's chest.
It could be that Satan, as the concept of Gehenna itself, can only create Demons. It could be that Rin absorbed Yukio's demon half in the womb. It could be that some Nephilim are born with demon hearts and we just haven't seen those yet. After all, the Paladin before Shiro was one of Mephisto's clones, yet he didn't demonstrate any power over time during the whole battle with baby Rin. So maybe having a demon heart is where their access to those kinds of powers come from. Maybe the first Shemihaza had a demon heart, who knows?
So there's a very real possibility that Rin might be immortal, instead of just having a longer lifespan. After all, the Nephilim we have seen outside of Rin - Iblis's son, Shiro, Abel - are all capable of being killed and dying. Rin has been shot in the head, funnily in the same spot as Mephisto, and it did nothing. He was still talking (like Mephisto, lol) after it happened.
As for Yukio and Rin's reactions - I think Yukio already knows that Rin has an extended lifespan, if not that he's likely immortal. Some people, especially those that don't like Yukio, focus a lot on Yukio shooting Rin in the head and treating it as if Yukio's goal was to kill Rin. It wasn't. Much like their battle on the airship, Yukio's actions had a greater goal than defeating Rin. And Yukio isn't even surprised when Rin attacks him right after.
I don't know if Yukio has really processed it. By the time it's more obvious a lot has started to happen both in plot and Yukio's own mental health decline. Of course, once he gets a chance to think about it, I'm not sure how he'll feel. He'll know that Rin will be upset, and likely his focus will be on managing that rather than assessing his own feelings on his brother's extended lifespan.
For Rin, I don't think he knows yet and I don't think he'll figure it out until his friends start to die and he doesn't. Even if it becomes obvious as everyone gets older and older around him. There's a lot Rin just seems to take in stride and doesn't think deeper on. It wouldn't surprise me if he wrote off his lack of visible aging as just a side effect of being Satan's son.
Once he figures it out, or when it's explained to him, I think his reaction will depend on which one it is: longevity or immortality. Longevity? He'll be depressed. He doesn't want to outlive his friends, and certainly not Yukio. But in the end, one day he'll die, and they'll all be together again.
Immortality? Nah. The cool thing about dying is that you're supposed to be reunited with the people you've loved and lost. Rin doesn't strike me as someone who has ever contemplated immortality and thought, "Yeah."
But, of course, this is where the fun comes in. Because I think for Rin the idea of outliving Yukio has always been a negative one and knowing for sure that he'll outlive Yukio for more than just a handful of years would be something that utterly devastates him. It wouldn't surprise me if he's always thought of them dying hand in hand at the same time. He's sappy like that and very attached to Yukio.
Yukio, however, severely underestimates his importance in Rin's life. He knows Rin loves him. But I think he doesn't understands why because he doesn't really see himself as a person with any inherent value, which is why he's so eager to take on responsibility and prove himself, even to his own detriment.
So if Rin realizes that he'll live longer than everyone else, I think coming to grips with losing Yukio will probably be the hardest part for him and Yukio, who has always tasked himself to manage Rin, will struggle to understand why Rin is so upset by that. He'll point out all the things Rin can do with a longer lifespan (travel the world, help raise his grandkids and great-grandkids, etc) and Rin will become more and more distresed because what's the point of doing any of that if Yukio isn't there with him.
Also, fun fact: I am an older sibling and when I was younger, I used to tell my little sister that I had to die first because I was older. It would be super fun if Rin discovers his longevity because he cracks a similar joke to Yukio, who simply points out the obvious.
Do you have more thoughts on Hazel being an accountant? I actually kinda love it. She isn’t the type to turn her art into a career. And it’s important that her job is done correctly but not “lives hang in the balance” level important.
I like Hazel embracing the business side of wealth a lot. I've written previously about her being the accountant to Annabeth and Leo's architecture and engineering business. She keeps them in check monetarily, but also with resources and supplies because they both do weird shit and things blow up a lot. They both get distracted easily (ADHD) or hyperfocus on something and lose track of inventory as well, so she handles that for them.
I've also talked about her and Walt making jewelry because Walt is a curse user, so he can remove all the bad luck from the jewels she summons and then he makes pretty things, as he does in canon but w/ less magic, that she'll sell at craft fairs and whatnot.
I guess she's less of an accountant and more like the business manager - she handles a lot of things because the others forget or get confused by all the rules and those are things she knows pretty intrisincally through Pluto, the way I headcanon that Jason can walk into a new place he's never been but immediately know all the laws and rules that place is governed by, and how Percy knows how to sail when he gets in a boat. So she's the inventory manager, purchasing manager, accountant, sales assistant, mediator when Annabeth and Leo get weird about each other's ideas - basically like a good portion of the jobs needed to keep a business afloat.
With Walt it's a little easier since he does his stuff more part-time so as not to aggravate his conditon and they get along well.
I also like to think of Hazel shadowing her dad in the underworld and seeing what he does from a management position. She likes to study his spreadsheets and figure out effective cost savings that don't fuck up everyone else's ability to work, as well as assessing which gemstones will become more popular and which will fall out of fashion, idly coming up with competitive prices for her dad to sell his jewels at, making fun growth projections slides and whatnot. He loves it.
