When Was the First Kingdom of the Wilderwest Built? (HTTYD Books)
Hello, my fellow Dragonmarkers! It's been awhile! As promised, here's the article concerning the plausible timeline of the Kingdom of the Wilderwest. This article was actually a very old one of mine that I had written during this month in 2018. Why didn't I post it on here? Because I wasn't on Tumblr until 2020. And by then, I had forgotten to post this on here. Whoops. Teehee. 😜
When did Hiccup the First end the First Human-Dragon War and built the First Kingdom of the Wilderwest?
Many fans just go with what Wodensfang says in Book 11, supporting the 1000-Year Dynasty mentioned in Book 11 rather than the 500-700-Year Dynasty suggested in Book 9. In fact, it's everywhere in the HTTYD Wiki. I guess it's because fans view Book 11 to be more accurate because it's a later book? I don't know; maybe I'm thinking too hard about this.
But I want to talk through this and thoroughly go through the pros and cons of both sides of the argument and do this right. I'd love to know what you guys think about this.
Anyway, on to the topic!
Possible Contradiction?:
In the First Book — the Book that we're all familiar with — in Chapter 6, Page 68, says that:
"The Dragon (speaking of the Green Death) had crawled down into the depths of the ocean and had gone into a Sleep Coma. Dragons can stay in this suspended state for eternity, half-dead, half-alive, buried under fathom after fathom of icy-cold seawater. Not a muscle of this particular Dragon had moved for six or seven centuries."
Wodensfang's account of Hiccup the First in Book 9 "How to Steal a Dragon's Sword", on Chapter 12, Page 203, seems to probably confirm this when he says: "Five or six centuries ago, when I was young, it was a very dark age, and the dragons and humans were at war."
He goes on further explanation in Page 208 concerning the Green Death: "...Merciless flew to the north, and to the Open Sea. He lived so long a loner that perhaps over the centuries he forgot his youth as leader of a dragon army and became quite an ordinary killer. Rumor was that several hundred years later, he was known only as the Green Death, one of the many monsters that terrorize the Deep Sea."
So you're probably saying, "Great! There it is! There's your answer! It was 600-700 years ago! Problem solved, right?"
Wrong.
In Book 11 "How to Betray a Dragon's Hero", on Chapter 6, Page 98, Wodensfang tells the story of how the Dragonmark came to be, as well as a more detailed history of the Kingdom of the Wilderwest and the story of Grimbeard the Ghastly as a boy, and how he changed the Mark.
He says at the beginning of the story: "Once upon a time, Hiccup, a thousand or so years ago, when I was young and about the size of a Saber-Toothed Driver Dragon, I met your ancestor, Hiccup Horrendous Haddock the First, and I gave him the Dragon Jewel and trusted him with the Jewel's Secret."
In Page 100, Wodensfang repeats this by saying: "For over a thousand years, it seemed like I had made the right decision to entrust the Secret of the Dragon Jewel to the humans."
I know right? I'm as confused as you are! Didn't he say in Book 9 that it was "five or six centuries ago"? Maybe even SEVEN centuries ago? Why the change? Did he suddenly get the Dragon equivalent of memory loss due to old age? Does he not know how to count?
Here's the confusing thing: if he was rounding, this might explain it. But the thing is that you can do it with small numbers, but as the number gets bigger, you can't round up in great jumps.
(Warning: Math Ahead!)
For example, say that the number is 8, you round it up to 10 (in certain circumstances) because 8 is closer to 10 than 5. However, if it's 6, then you have to round down to 5 because 6 is closer to 5. The only time that it doesn't is when you're rounding up in percentages (55.678594375 would be 56, for example).
You can't round up to 1000 years from 600, or even 700. That's too high of a jump. Especially when you're telling a historical account. For one thing, it's inaccurate, and for another, it's lazy. And it'll spread lots of confusion.
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A Roman Piece to a Nordic Puzzle | The Hint's in the Roman Numerals:
So then, which is it? Was the Kingdom of the Wilderwest built 600-700 years ago or 1000-odd years ago?
First off, allow me to redirect your attention once more to the references concerning the Green Death (also known as Merciless):
The Green Death Takes His Tea by Crownflame on DeviantArt
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"The Dragon (speaking of the Green Death) had crawled down into the depths of the ocean and had gone into a Sleep Coma. Dragons can stay in this suspended state for eternity, half-dead, half-alive, buried under fathom after fathom of icy-cold seawater. Not a muscle of this particular Dragon had moved for six or seven centuries."
And this one:
". . .Merciless flew to the north, and to the Open Sea. He lived so long a loner that perhaps over the centuries he forgot his youth as leader of a dragon army and became quite an ordinary killer. Rumor was that several hundred years later, he was known only as the Green Death, one of the many monsters that terrorize the Deep Sea."
According to these two quotes concerning the Dragon Merciless, it would appear that the events were about roughly 600 years ago. The problem is that the first quote says he had been in a Sleep Coma for six or seven centuries. I don't know about you, but that doesn't seem like a lot of time to me for him to have forgotten his past and about his nemesis Hiccup. It sounds like in the latter quote, Merciless lived and journeyed alone for a long time — about 100-200 years or more — before he fell into a Sleep Coma.
What might help support this is the mention of what he had eaten in Book 1, Page 129: "He was awake now, and he had coughed up the last thing he had eaten, the Eagle Standard of the Eighth Legion, with its pathetic ribbons still flying bravely."
Now, yes, the HTTYD books are exaggeratory and any historical references are "purely coincidental," and that the Roman Dragonrustlers were about during Hiccup the Third's time (but after Book 3 was said to have fled back to Rome — which is inaccurate because Hiccup's time was during the Viking Age, over 300 years after the fall of the Roman Empire. However, I have a theory that'll explain that in the future).
But what if we DID get historical here? According to history, the only 8th Legion in Roman history was the Legio VIII Augusta, one of the oldest Roman legions in Rome's history (along with the Legio VI Feratta, Legio VII Claudia, and the (in)famous Legio IX Hispana). They were stationed in Gaul (modern France) near the modern-day Strasbourg area (called Argentoratum in Roman times). It was founded in 65 BC by Julius Caesar during the Gaul Wars. It continued service presumedly until either before or until the Fall of Rome (400-500 AD).
Of course, since it continued service until that time period, then it's impossible for the Green Death to have eaten the Legion, right?
As Old Wrinkly used to say: "It's not im-POSSIBLE, only im-PROBABLE. The only thing that limits us are the limits to our imaginations."
So, taking this sagely advice, let's think about this carefully.
According to Roman history, the Eighth Legion was disbanded during the first of Rome's Civil Wars (called Caesar's Civil War and the conflict was between Caesar and Scipio) soon after the Battle and Siege of Thapsus (modern-day Tunisia) in 46 BC for unknown reasons. It was reconstituted in 44 BC by Caesar's adopted son Augustus for Caesar's veterans who had loyally served him and helped him defeat Mark Antony and gain power as Rome's first Emperor.
So basically, there's a two-year gap between the disbandment and the reinstation of the Eighth Legion, which means that Merciless could've easily have eaten the Legion during that time and nobody would've been the wiser, and when Augustus reinstated the Legion two years later, he filled the ranks with other veterans who had served Caesar and Augustus.
What do you think? Plausible?
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Possible Connection to Dragon-Aging and Dates in the Book of Dragons:
Now, in Book 1, in the back of the How to Train Your Dragon book that Hiccup reads (similar to the Book of Dragons in the film) in Chapter 4 on Page 53-58, it says that the last stamped due-date was on "16 May 866 AD". The first and second due-dates stamped on there before that were "10 June 789 AD" and "9 April 835 AD".
However, there's no mention of when that book was borrowed, or when it was returned, or the gap between the date and when Gobber the Belch had burgled it from the Meathead "Public" Library. The Hooligans seemed to have had the book for a while. So the current date of the time of Hiccup's first memoir could be anywhere from 866-900 AD — if not later!
Suffering Scallops, it could even be in the 1000s AD!!! In Book 7, Hiccup writes in his epilogue that: "Now I am an old, old man, and the world that I created has no need for dragons. They have retreated from the civilization that I brought, along with the wolves, and the Berserks, and the monsters of my childhood."
In 1015 AD, Berserkers were outlawed, and the practice of "going berserk" as a profession and the rituals involving their cults were forbidden until by the turn of the 12th century, Berserkers had all but disappeared from human history. The end of the Viking Age was considered to be between 1066-1100 AD, so, scallops, Hiccup could very well have lived during this time.
(This could explain the crossbows in the TV series, as they were beginning to show up around this time, as well as Hiccup's quote in the first film: "300 years and I'm the first Viking who wouldn't kill a dragon!")
And, in Book 12, Hiccup also explains in his epilogue that Sea-Dragons like Toothless can live for thousands of years, so maybe 1000-year period might be correct? There's no mention about the other sea dragons, apparently, so I guess they don't live nearly as long?
The problem is the period of growth in the Sea-Dragons. Wodensfang was probably of-age by the time he meets Hiccup the First, and he was "the size of a Saber-Toothed Driver Dragon" then. Then, as the decades and centuries went by and the Kingdom prospered, he grew to be "as large as a mountain". Then he says that hundreds of years ago, he began to "shrink in old age", as Sea-Dragons are small in young and old ages, but in adult stages they're colossal, until he shrunk to the "size of a large Viking hunting dog (probably a Norwegian Elkhound, which lived during this time and was used mainly as a guard and hunting dog)" during the time of Grimbeard the Ghastly. By Hiccup the Third's time a hundred years later, he shrunk to the size of Toothless.
Furious was still considered a baby during Hiccup the Second's time, but grew to be the size of a small elephant. Then 100 years later, he became the size of a mountain, when it doesn't seem that Wodensfang grew that big that quickly (though, to be fair, the Berserks had been feeding him well with human sacrifices for the past 100 years, among other foods, so he probably grew to be that big because of it.) He must've had an early growth spurt. lol 😂
That being said, the reason Furious and Wodensfang have different growing speeds may be likely due to Furious having been fed well since his hatchling days. Whereas it's hinted by Wodensfang himself that he's had a difficult life in his younger days, which is one of the reasons he joins Merciless' rebellion against the Vikings. So the struggle for food could've stunted his growth until he met Hiccup the First later on, at which point he grew faster as more food was available.
Meanwhile, there's Toothless, who's a baby, and has been the size of Wodensfang since the first book, and, according to Hiccup in his epilogue in Book 12, hasn't really grown up at all despite it being 62 years since the events of Book 12 (which if Hiccup was 10-11 when he got Toothless in Book 1, this would make Toothless 65-66 years old by Hiccup's death) and is still able to sleep on his chest.
He must be a late bloomer. lol 😂
Then there's the Green Death — or Merciless — to consider. While he was Furious's size during Hiccup the First's time, and was considered to be a young dragon, then several centuries later, if not more, when he meets Hiccup the Third, he's still the same size! Do Sleep Comas delay aging and growth or something?
So basically we have FOUR Sea-Dragons who grow and age at various speeds! So I don't think we can glean anything from this.
So . . . 1000 years or 600-700 years? Honestly, I seem to get more confused the further I try to explain it! I hope you're having better luck keeping up than I am at the moment! lol 😂
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Time For a Little More Math! (cue the groans!):
Okay, I'm going to do a little more math. To be honest, graphs, charts, and basic math is the only math I love. If you don't like it, then skip if you'd like, though you'll miss out on the cool part. 😉🧐
I've done the calculations and I'll do my best with it. If there are any mistakes, please let me know and I'll correct them.
I'll be using current time from 866-1100 AD and then add the date to when the Kingdom of the Wilderwest could've been established in Hiccup the First's time.
I will be using the terms CTP (Current Time Period) and DFP (Dynasty Foundation Period) to avoid confusion.
Whew! Okay! Now that THAT'S done and over with, let's get to the average ages of the Kings of the Wilderwest to further prove (hopefully) which date it might've been.
I've organized it into different sections. Before Hiccup the Third, there were 12 Kings of the Wilderwest. So I'll divide the number of years that the Dynasty could've lasted to the number of Kings to get the average lifespan that each of the Kings have to be in order for this to become plausible.
Now granted, some of these Kings could've died young (20s-30s), or very old, or in their middle-ages (pun not intended). This is the AVERAGE lifespan for each king -- not a literal statistic for each and every King.
Unless, of course, if we were fanciful people, we might've theorized that there's some sort of magic spell in the Dragon Jewel that Wodensfang didn't mention that causes all of the Twelve Kings to die at the same age.
In that case, if true, and if every King DOES INDEED die at the same age, then since Hiccup the Third dies at the age of 75/76, it would've been 900 years since the foundation of the Kingdom of the Wilderwest since every King would've died at the same age that Hiccup had died.
But we're not fanciful people . . . and that would be ridiculous. lol 😜
However, you're probably noticing that there are no 1000 Years among the statistics that I just showed above. That's because I had just remembered that the Kingdom of the Wilderwest collapsed a hundred years before Hiccup the Third's time. Meaning that if the Dynasty and Kingdom lasted for 1000 years, then only 900 years of that has passed as a kingdom.
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Conclusion:
So . . . WHEW! That took a long time to write (5-6 hours, though the time could've been cut in half had I not done the statistics, but then where'd be the fun in that? lol 😜)
I apologize if any of this went over your head or overwhelmed you with informational overload. If it did, then I sympathize because I'm feeling this as well — and I'm WRITING THIS!
So my conclusion is that, basically speaking, regardless of the Kingdom being anywhere from 600-1000 years old, 100 of those years need to be subtracted since the Kingdom fell apart when Grimbeard dissolved it a hundred years prior to the current events of the Second Dragon War. So, realistically, the Kingdom — and the 12 Kings (including Grimbeard) — lasted around 500-900 years, and when Wodensfang tells Hiccup the Third about the history of the Wilderwest, he includes the 100 years into the timeframe when the Kingdom of the Wilderwest was first founded.
So I guess that, in the end, the actual date and timeline will be left up to the fans to headcanon for themselves.
If you could take anything from this, what would it be?
What current timeline do you think Hiccup the Third could be living in during the Viking Age? 900s? 1000s? 1100?
And how many years do you think that the Kingdom of the Wilderwest was established (including the 100-year gap)? 1000 years? 800? 700? 600?
Please share your thoughts! I'd LOVE to hear from you!!! ^_^
Thank you SO MUCH for taking the time to read this and I am looking forward to reading any theories, corrections, suggestions, discussions, answers, and/or questions you may have.
I hope this article finds you well, and I hope you have a splendid weekend!
Hiccup the First's Capital City of the Wilderwest (HTTYD)
You know, I got to thinking:
We know that Grimbeard disliked being confined to Berk, viewing it as not a PROPER PLACE for a KING, so he built the Great City of Tomorrow.
But what was the place Hiccup the First and the other Kings made their capital? Was it Berk? Or was it the Mainland but then it later became Berk?
My headcanon was that after becoming King, Hiccup the First rallied his Tribe and routed the Uglithugs out of the Mainland, which had been the Hooligans' original home before they got kicked out by them just after Hiccup was born. And a plausible theory being that after Hiccup died, or even perhaps after his son's reign, the Uglithugs took the Mainland back, forcing later Kings to rule from Berk.
What do you guys think? Plausible?
Where Was the Wilderwest's Original Capital Before Grimbeard's City of Tomorrow?
Greetings, fellow Dragonmarkers! Just wanted to let you know that I'm currently working on a new article for the HTTYD Books, focusing on the timeline of the books and the Kingdom of the Wilderwest.
(I’m sorry in advance for any blurry map images, but I can only do so much. If you guys have clearer copies of this, please let me know.)
Hello everyone! Today I’ll write another article that I think you’ll find interesting. I know I haven’t written an article for the Books in, like, a very long time, but now I’ve got myself a topic to talk about.
As you know, Outlawry and Outcasts are among the main antagonists and themes in the Books. That being said, and in spite of it, there isn’t really a whole lot of info concerning this, aside from the few hints, theories, and mentions we get from it.
In the Books, Outlawry and Piracy kinda go hand-in-hand, though they’re not exactly the same thing.
In the Viking Age, there was a complicated yet integral system in Viking society called “Outlawry”. For minor crimes — stealing, injuring, insulting someone’s honor, perjury, non-violent treason (disobeying orders and the like), etc, or if the person exiled himself — they sentenced a person to “Lesser Outlawry”.
Lesser Outlaws had safe zones to live in for up to 3 years, and their family and friends could give them supplies and support if needed. His family could even join him if they so wished. However, if the person ever stepped out of these safe zones for whatever reason, it was fair game if somebody killed him, since he is technically an outlaw, and the killer was exempt from any punishment since the outlaw stepped out of the sanctioned safe zones.
“Greater Outlawry” was when a man or woman committed the following major crimes: assault, rape, manslaughter (accidental or intentional), the harming or killing of a chieftain or lord (or “violent treason”), breaking the terms of the lesser outlawry sentence, and other terrible crimes. If anyone committed these crimes, they were sentenced to “Greater Outlawry”, which was permanent, and could never be revoked once sentenced.
Of course, both in the real world and in this world, it’s natural and essential for outlaws to band together to increase their chances of survival. After all, life as an outlaw wasn’t all sunshine and rainbows, as Hiccup hints at in Book 1, and mentions from time to time in later Books. In fact, such was the stress and isolation of becoming a permanent outlaw — becoming both socially and eventually physically executed — that there are many who commit suicide, unable to handle the drastic change to their circumstances.
To be an Outlaw was to, bluntly speaking, metaphorically become the participant of the Hunger Games — except that everyone was coming to kill YOU, gaining glory and honor for themselves, and notoriety for you if you won instead.
Because of this, it was common for Outlaws to band together in order to protect themselves. This is probably how the Outcast Tribe came to be after Thugheart failed in his rebellion to claim the Throne of the Wilderwest for himself, bringing with him whomever got banished with him. Perhaps even with their families, if any went at all. Over the years, they grew to become a deadly force, and unfortunately devolved into a nasty, ferocious, and somewhat primitive Viking band known for cannibalism, human sacrifices, and other bad deeds. Of course, upon Alvin’s coronation as the new High Chieftain of the Outcasts 5-15 years before the events of Book 1, he reformed the Outcasts into a bit more sophisticated force and a bit more with the times, but he couldn’t change all of their traditions.
This Tribe consists mostly of descendants of pro-Thugheart rebels who wish for the descendants of Thugheart to reclaim the Throne of the Wilderwest and rule the Tribes (even though the rest of the Archipelago view them as nothing more than a family of Outcasts and dishonorable men).
While the Outcasts of the Wilderwest are the main groups, they’re by far not the only ones out there. The Archipelago has many Outcast warbands, large and small, spread out throughout the many isles that make up the Barbaric Archipelago. That being said, the Wilderwest Outcasts are by far the most populous and dangerous outlaw bands out there due to their organization, history, resolve, and semi-legitimacy. Other outlaw bands are mostly just warbands led by a leader or warlord rather than a legitimate chieftain or ruler. If they do, it’s self-made and far from legitimate.
But Vikings of the Archipelago who wish to sail through these waters must take heed to the potential danger of running into any bands of wandering Outcasts. Some bands are on dragons, others on ships, and still others with a mix of both. The life of a Viking is fraught with danger.
However, this isn’t the only path to becoming an Outcast. Nor is it the only fate of one, either.
Regardless if you were Outlawed or not, if you have the misfortune and bad luck to run into the Uglithug Slave Ships, you may as well forget ever hoping for freedom again. To become a slave is the same as becoming an Outcast practically. Once they grab hold of you and gift you with the Slavemark, you can never hope to become a Free Viking ever again. (At least until the Dragonmarker Revolution led by Hiccup the Third brought it back into its original symbolic meaning.)
But if you ever got lucky enough to escape (though few ever do), you would still be treated as if you were an Outcast and probably killed on the spot, or, if you were lucky, become someone else’s slave.
If you got caught by any Roman ships, then you’d meet the same fate and you’d end up becoming a slave or a gladiator for their Games.
Vikings who got banished from their homes as Outcasts would either go to 2 places: The Mainland, where they would have to deal with dragons AND Uglithugs, and try to avoid becoming a slave or just outright killed on the spot — and woe unto them if they got banished during the winter seasons (though anytime was bad when you’re in the Archipelago); and the second is being sent by UG the Uglithug to the Island of Berserk, where they’re imprisoned in the infamous Forest Dungeon until the time comes for their monthly human sacrifices to the Dragon (until, at least, Hiccup came along and spoilt the fun like the party-pooper he is. XD)
However, there was a THIRD option — one that most people probably don’t know about.
Cannibal Isle. The island where starving to death and dealing with dragons was the LEAST of your worries.
This place was never mentioned in the Books, but you can find this in some maps in Book 1: How To Train Your Dragon and in the Complete Book of Dragons. That being said, it is mentioned in the Books about Vikings being banished having to face dangers such as being beset by cannibals. Book 1 is the most we get about it, but it is interesting to note that he says this. As he says this in lieu of talking about being banished to the Mainland, it might be that Cannibal Isle isn’t the only place where cannibals reside. That being said, we can’t be sure of such things, since Cowell never mentions the place nor about the banishment since it never happens after the Berkian and Meathead Youths’ victory over the Green Death.
I just happened to have seen this on the maps of Book 1 and the Book of Dragons and was very interested and started to wonder if this wasn’t a connection of some sort. If he mentions cannibals, then the other destination they might’ve been sent to other than the Mainland (which, to be honest, is a FAR DISTANCE from Berk) could’ve been Cannibal Isle.
Cannibal Isle might possibly be home to Outcasts who’ve been banished from society and driven to this island, which doesn’t have much in the way of food, and are lucky to get by on plants and fish and whatever they manage to scrounge up. But eventually the hunger drove them mad and caused them to look to man-flesh to sustain their needs. Thus, the island became known as “Cannibal Isle”, and would often be a place to send permanent outlaws to other than the Mainland.
Another area I thought would be an interesting hotspot for pirates, raiders, and outcasts was in the Mazy Multitudes. Only the bravest would enter these waters and make them their base of operations. Other than the weather, the Sharkworms, and the like, they’d also have to contend with the Romans who’ve made their stronghold there on one of the islands.
However, the Mazy Multitudes also make for a great base since not many Vikings would be crazy enough to risk entering the Mazy Multitudes to deal with any Outcasts or Raiders who’ve made themselves at home here, especially since the Romans have made their base here for hundreds of years.
Not only that, but it’s pretty close to several islands, such as Glum, Peaceable Country, Meatheads, Berk, Waterlands, Mystery, Swallow, and others. And much traffic enters near or into these waters, making it a lovely hotspot. Or one of them, at any point. It’s similar to the modern-day water trade routes in Indonesia.
All-in-all, it’s not a bad spot to hang out at -- though, admittedly, there are perhaps more safer areas to establish your base at.
Conclusion:
So there are many paths and many ways that one ends up becoming an Outcast of Viking society when concerning the lore of the Books. And we’ve learned that becoming an Outcast... is not fun’n’games. At all. It’s literally like Hunger Games, but with worse odds and even less support unless you luckily end up in one of the many Outcast bands or form one yourself.
What happens to Outcasts can vary: from going to the Mainland, to becoming a slave, to dying at the hands of Cannibals or some Dragon, to succumbing to the natural and unnatural elements, to getting killed by dragons... the possibilities are ENDLESS.
In fact, there should’ve been a book called “You Wouldn’t Want to be An Outcast in the Barbaric Archipelago”. lol XD (I might actually do a fanfic on this. Who knows?)
I hope you guys had fun reading this and learned a lot. It was definitely fun for me, and I enjoyed thinking up theories concerning Cannibal Isle and the Mazy Multitudes for this article.
Thank you guys for reading! Please reblog to share with others, and I hope to see you in the next article.
