#jump combinations

[figureskatingask]

This is probably a dumb question. I just got into figure skating and am trying to understand jumps. In theory is a lutz jump able to be the second jump in a combination since it starts on an outside edge? Or is that not possible?

Thanks for asking! (This is so not a dumb question!)

In theory, yes, a Lutz can be the second jump of a combination - but only if the skater is able to jump in the opposite direction.

A skater who rotates counter-clockwise in the air (I’d say this is about 90% of skaters) will land a jump (or should!) on a right back outside edge. A Lutz for them will take off on a left back outside edge, so the only way to do a Lutz as that second jump would be for them to then rotate clockwise on the second jump.

Now, skaters who can jump in both directions are really rare. Maybe about 1% of skaters can do this. Rohene Ward was one of the most famous of these, and I did hear that he did a 3Lz-2Lz combination once, but I don’t think there’s video.

I should add - if you change feet after landing, it’s no longer a combination, but a jump sequence. In theory, a 3Lz-3Lz jump sequence is entirely possible, but I’m not sure it would be worth it for both the points and the overall damage to your jump repetitions.

[figureskatingask]

In a free skate, you can only repeat two kinds of jumps. Does that count for doubles too? So if you do a 3F-2T-2T, does that count as one of the repeated jumps?

Thanks for asking!

Yes, but separate to the triples and quads. So you can repeat two kinds of triples/quads, and the doubles are separate (but kind of self-limiting, since you really don’t want to do too many of them, ha!).

If you did something like a 3F-2T-2T, you’d best be making your next combo a -2Lo, or a 1Lo-3, or a 1Lo-2S or something, or you’re going to start getting the asterisk of doom…

Additional: the asterisk of doom now only appears next to the invalid jump, and now only throws out the invalid jump. In the past, it used to be that you lost the whole jumping pass. Imagine losing the whole value of a 3F-2T-2T. Or, as one of my favourite skaters once found out, a second half 3Lz-2T. Ouch…

[figureskatingask]

hi there, do u think it's possible to do quad-quad combos? do u know if anyone's already done it?

Thanks for asking!

I think it is possible this may happen; whether or not it is probable is another matter. I don’t think it would be any of this generation of skaters and maybe not even the next. Having to do a quad from significantly less speed/momentum/buildup would be extremely difficult. 

The closest we’ve got, that we have video of ,was Konstantin Menshov in practice seven years ago. He was short of rotation and two-footed, but it was a pretty good attempt. (You can see in the video that he was also trying quad loops at the time, too.)

There have been other skaters do tail-end quad combinations in practice; Plushenko attempted 3A-4T many years ago, and Uno this year, while last summer Aaron and Kerry both posted videos of single-quad combos (Aaron’s was a single walley-quad toe and Kerry’s was a single Axel-quad toe).

[figureskatingask]

Hello! I have a tricky question (at least, I think). What is the most difficult jump combination? I started watching figure skating recently, and looked on the Internet to find information - I have read that the Axel is the most difficult jump. So I was wondering if there are particularly hard jump combinations too, but to me they all seem impossible XD I hope this makes sense! Sorry to bother you with such questions

Thanks for asking! And don’t worry about bothering me with questions, ask as many as you like, especially with Worlds coming up next week!

Now for the bad news: there’s no real answer to that question. The Axel is considered the most difficult type of jump, because it takes off forward and has an extra half revolution. But no-one’s going to dispute that a quad toe is harder than the double Axel.

In general terms, for straight up combinations, a tail end loop (say, 3T-3Lo) is considered harder than a toe loop (3T-3T). Not only because the loop is worth more, but because of the mechanics of the jump - the loop is very hard to take off from without excessive pre-rotation (which is why many tail end loop combos get < or <<). Probably the hardest tail-end loop combination we’ve seen was Plushenko’s trademark 4T-3T-3Lo.

In terms of half-loop combinations, the hardest one that has been landed in competition is the 3A-1Lo-3F. This is also very difficult due to mechanics, and if you have a dodgy flip edge it might not be worth it. Again, Plushenko was the pioneer on this one.

With all that said, so far I have been ranking “hardest” in terms of how many points a combination is worth. Difficulty can vary from skater to skater. Some skaters find certain jumps easier than others, which of course changes the issue again.

Probably the craziest combination we’ve ever seen in practice is a 3A-4T. Plushenko did one in practice a couple of years ago (because his crazy doesn’t fade with age) and Uno did one in practice at 4CC. Although, I have seen a video of Brendan Kerry attempting a 4T-1Lo-4S, which is just ludicrous.