So the simple answer is yes, I do, because I shipped them before ACOWAR, & nothing changed despite my hatred of the book itself. Honestly, Cassian was one of the few things I actually really liked in ACOWAR, & I liked seeing more of his & Nesta’s interactions with each other (though I think that is because they actually were given time & care because of the pending novels/novellas, of which I’d be surprised if the first one wasn’t Nessian). I love my Cazigan crack ship, but when it comes down to it, I’d still want Nessian to be canon. :)
I'm sorry my post was really aggressive. I still stand by my point that it ISN'T fair to dismiss Mor's romantic feelings (or lack thereof) towards Az, but how I acted was really awful. You don't have to post this publicly, but I hope you know I'm very sorry. My intention wasn't to try to start drama, but just receive an explanation over WHY you still ship Moriel. My way of going about it was TERRIBLE. I know sorry is just a word, but I'M SORRY.
2/2 I didn’t send you three asks. I only sent you one? Just to clear that up.3/3 I also didn’t send more than one ask. :/
Okay Anon. While I find it extremely hard to believe because of the timing (especially because for as long as I have been on here, I have RARELY gotten asks, let alone 3 in such quick succession that are so similar), as well as the fact that you clearly don’t stand behind your words because you felt the need to do this all on anon/have to make sure we know that you still think we are wrong, I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt & accept your apology.In regards to your question, why I still ship Moriel, @sarahviehmann honestly said it best in her original answer to you: “ACOMAF was written in a way that intended for them to be shipped. So those people spent a year building up their fanon and meta and so forth, only to have the rug pulled out from under them.”
(For the sake of everyone, I’m putting this under a cut. It got way long.)
I hated ACOWAR. I’ve made no secret of that. I’ve also made no secret as to WHY. I’ve been writing fic for this series for over a year, & heavily focused on ACOMAF. I started when there were literally 7 fics posted to Ao3. Basically all of my free time at home & all of my breaks at work were spent either writing fic, discussing the series/meta with people here/talking my poor friends’ ears off over dinner, or planning fic for characters I wanted to explore in POV fics like Rhys, Tamlin, & Tarquin. Hell, I still have a 10 chapter Amarantha POV pre-ACOTAR through ACOTAR fic that’s over half written at 16k that I originally wanted to try as a surprise for my readers. I read ACOMAF enough times that I honestly would have said that I knew those characters as well as my own family, knew exactly what happened in which chapters, & got many comments here & on Ao3 from people who felt I’d captured the characters correctly, so I felt pretty good about what to expect going forward.
When ACOWAR spoilers came out, absolutely nothing made sense with what we knew or had been prior established canon. Most of all in regards to Mor, Rhys, Feyre, & Lucien, but I’m going to specifically focus on Mor, since she’s at the crux of the issue at hand. In Mor’s case, we took a woman who is described in ACOMAF as “a queen who owned her body, her life, her destiny, and never apologized for it” & says to Feyre, “I once lived in a place where the opinion of others mattered. It suffocated me, nearly broke me. So you’ll understand me, Feyre, when I say that I know what you feel, and I know what they tried to do to you, and that with enough courage, you can say to hell with a reputation. You do what you love, what you need”, & in ACOWAR made her a victim in circumstances that make absolutely no sense for the character we had known up until that date. Queen of the Hewn City? She wasn’t even treated with enough respect to be prepared to go into a meeting with her abusers, let alone shown that she is in charge. The first real female friend Feyre has ever had? Regulated to acting like a jealous girlfriend around Cassian whenever Nesta got too close. And speaking of Cassian, it was pointed out in another post (I’m sorry I don’t have the link right now) that the Cassian & Mor moments read like they were originally Az & Mor moments & were hastily changed when suddenly they weren’t supposed to be even friends. Nothing in this book read like it had been edited for continuity.
There are many bloggers who are far more qualified than I am to speak on Mor’s coming out scene, & while there was a divide, there were quite a few I know & follow who felt it was poorly written/bad rep, & I agree with their reasoning. Besides the fact that I don’t believe for one dang second that no one in the Inner Circle at a minimum would have picked up on something bothering Mor in 500 years or that she wouldn’t have at least told them even if she hid everything from Keir, there is the fact of Azriel. Azriel is in love with her, no disputing it. But it is mentioned by Rhys that Az has always thought himself unworthy of her, & Mor says that she could take her clothes off in front of him & he wouldn’t do anything. Does that sound like someone who is trying to avoid him because she isn’t interested, or someone who is creepily stalking her? In the Nessian short Wings & Embers, Cassian speaks on their relationship as well: “He wasn’t stupid. He knew she and Azriel were … whatever they were. Knew Azriel had been in love with Mor from the moment she’d strutted into the war-camp five centuries ago. And Cassian had been jealous—of Mor’s shy glances at Azriel in those first few weeks, and the fact that his dearest friend and brother … was looking at someone else.”
I’m not going to rehash Wings & Embers or ACOMAF for you. But as Sarah said, it was clearly written with them as a ship in mind, & this is from the POV of a character that has known them since the beginning, not just a few months like Feyre.
Why I still ship Moriel at this point? Because I ship it in any form. I love her & Az together period, even as friends. This ship was one of the ways @illyriantremors & I bonded originally, before we found out how much else we had in common & she became as good as a biological sister to me (I call her my Threadsister for a reason), because we shipped it back in the beginning before there was really any fic for it because it was overshadowed by Feysand, Nessian, & Elucien. Moriel was our Nessian; the unconfirmed side-ship with so much potential & evidence to back it up. When Sierra met SJM at San Diego Comic Con last summer, SJM dedicated Sierra’s copy of ACOMAF to Moriel. Why the af would an author do that if they planned to destroy a ship in the next book from the beginning?
We still love Moriel because it is hard to let go of something you’ve loved that much after you’ve been strung along & then had the rug pulled out from under you with no actual basis in ACOMAF to say “oh, it was there all along”; like when rereading ACOTAR through the ACOMAF filter, as I like to say to people, & seeing the clues that were left to the deeper story for Rhys. For me, those were not in ACOMAF upon reading it again after ACOWAR. I noticed you using my tags in your defense of yourself to Sarah regarding why I wanted to ignore ACOWAR &, by your interpretation, erase Mor’s sexuality. If you had read any of my blog at all after ACOWAR, you would have read that isn’t true, but I’ll spell it out for you: I want to ignore ACOWAR & what it did to my favorite characters’ personalities/their interactions with each other. I want to forget that Mor’s agency was taken away from her & that she was regulated to a plot twist. I want to forget that Az has been made out to be a creepy stalker. I want to forget Rhys treating Mor like she would be too emotional to deal with the negotiations with Kier & Eris & so he & Az didn’t tell her. I want to forget Feyre using Lucien to make Tamlin jealous in the Spring Court while she dismantled it from within & putting him in danger. And so much more.
I personally hate the book for multiple reasons, ranging everywhere from inconsistent characterization to grammar/editing issues. But I’m stuck with the facts it gave us, which is why writing fic is so hard to even consider anymore. It made everything about the series, not just Mor & Az, something I no longer can love with the intensity I once did, & the fandom diminishes that love more & more everyday with their bullying of people for not believing exactly the way they do, which is exactly what you contributed to when you sent those asks to myself & Sierra. And honestly, I couldn’t care less what you think of me. But if you had even looked at one of Sierra’s actual written posts/answers to asks—just one—you would have seen how quiet she’s been about her love for them as a ship & how determined she’s been to not to offend people while she’s been trying to come to terms with losing something that has been a lifesaver for her, to the point she has mostly stopped contributing to the fandom at all. She posted two Moriel drabbles during her birthday week because she was inspired by the Azriel candle I got her for her birthday, & as she said to you in her response to your original message, they were her way of saying farewell to Moriel. And guess what: even though it isn’t canon, people liked them.
I view Mor as bi, & if she’s given a healthy, happy female love interest in a future installment, then awesome. I want Moriel at least as close friends because I genuinely don’t think Az (at least the one from ACOMAF that actually made sense) would begrudge her if he knew the truth. Would he be sad? Sure, but I think he would support her nonetheless, just as the rest of the Inner Circle would. But I have absolutely no faith that SJM will give Mor anything good because she can milk the drama and turmoil she’s created, & I have no desire to see the characters & ships (across the board) I have loved so much destroyed any further.
I think @my-name-is-fireheart put it perfectly in her chime in on Sarah’s post: “Also, we should keep in mind that Mor expresses sexual attraction to men, she just prefers women. How she feels about men romantically is also blurred, though it’s slightly more clear. She says she doesn’t think she loves Az romantically but she doesn’t want to try it just to see.” SJM didn’t even know how to break her own ship apart properly to fit what you suggested, which is a good chunk of why we are even having this discussion right now.
I know Moriel is no longer canon. Cazigan (Cassian/Azriel/Mor) isn’t canon either, but I still love that. I have enjoyed their interactions with each other more than anything else since they were introduced in ACOMAF. The entire Inner Circle made me so happy for their closeness & how much of a family they were. I feel for a plot twist & a couple extra Benjamin Franklins, SJM destroyed everything that made one of my favorite characters in the entire series who she was (a strong, independent woman who didn’t let her circumstances break her & showed Feyre how not to let hers break her) & made her a poor caricature of herself, & made Az something he never has been before either because SJM hastily had to make her new & poorly executed addition work.
I shouldn’t be surprised though. This is the woman who attempted to retcon Eris of all characters into a decent person. And also took away any modicum of being able to read Tamlin as the multifaceted antagonist he had been & just turned him into a completely hateful ass with no loyalty to anyone to further drive home how perfect Rhys is supposed to be (which he definitely is not in ACOWAR, & I say that as someone who loved the morally grey character of Rhys).
TL;DR I ship Mor with Az in any form, even as friends, Mor being bi is not an issue, & I have lost all respect for SJM as an author after ACOWAR for giving us a poorly written/poorly edited product after the anticipation/hype this book had. Make of that what you will; I don’t care. I’m out of effs to give, & your ask & the other Az one I received, no matter who it was from or what your intentions were, pretty much tipped the scale in favor of me wanting to step back even further & have nothing to do with this fandom ever again.
I would ask that next time you think you have a problem with someone (because I doubt Sierra & I will be the last people you do this to), please think about how it comes across & think about your target. Your original ask was terribly hateful, & there is no amount of apology that can take that hurt away. And you would be amazed how far a little kindness & grace when asking a question instead of an accusatory message can go.
This explanation is more than you probably bargained for when you started this yesterday, but that’s the last I’ll say on any of this.
why aren't you around as much. i love your blog and i miss you <3
Hello sweet anon! :D
So to be 100% honest, as a lot of people know, I have been overflowing with SaltTM for ACOWAR & SJM, which made it hard to want to write fic (even finish ones that are mostly done). But what really made me take a step back was the rude messages Sierra & I got over us still loving Moriel post-ACOWAR (on our own blogs), especially the one from an anon who didn’t know us at all/took pieces of our blogs out of context to defend to our friends why they felt justified to be treating us so rudely.
I already had felt for a long time that no one would miss me if I didn’t post anything, because I am not Sierra, Sarah Viehmann, Leslie, or so many other fic writers in this fandom. Those of us who are not pleased with SJM or what she did are very much in the minority, & getting those messages… it just really hurt. I forgave the anon, but that hurt doesn’t just go away.
I’m trying to bring myself to a point where I can still enjoy at least the first two books without thinking about the third one too much, or can find things I don’t hate in the third book to explore. It’s taking work, but the fic I posted today is an attempt at trying to find that… if not happy, than at least tolerable, medium.
Tl;dr: the messages you send people have a lasting effect on people. This message you sent brought a huge smile to my face, & I give you all the hugs & cookies 🍪 I’m going to try to be around more, but I can’t promise when the next fic I post will be. Hopefully soon though, & if I take too long, please feel free to come nudge me to post! I love hearing from people :)
Thank you again for the sweet message, it really did make me so happy 💜 Hope you are having a wonderful day anon!
this fandom is what once brought us together and is what is tearing us apart. funny how that works :((((
I agree anon :( I hadn’t been involved in a fandom to this level in over thirteen years (or honestly ever to this level), but quite a few of my IRL friends could tell you how I bragged on this fandom being so wonderful a year ago, with people being respectful, engaging, friendly, & generally kind; the anti-thesis to most fandoms. I mourn the loss of that fandom of last summer, & I mourn the loss of the enjoyment I & so many others felt with this series. Despite that, I am grateful for the friends I’ve made through the last year, and no amount of anon hate messages or posts can take that away, no matter how hard they try.
Hello Anon that just sent me three asks in succession under the guise of the Unpopular Opinions meme. I take it you & I aren't well acquainted, so I figure I will answer you this way.
Trying to get a rise out of people does not make you look good. Calling me names when I haven't done anything to you is childish (that is what you were doing with the Moriel & Az asks, I'm sure you realized & intended). Doing so on anon only makes you look bad. If you were expecting some kind of blow up on my end so you could start drama & try to get me blacklisted in the fandom, you came to the wrong person.
I will not be answering your asks, which were clearly intended with hate.
Hmm, honestly, I have to probably give the book a reread now that I am less salty to get a full list, but I will list the ones I can think of offhand (spoilers under the cut, ye be warned):
•The Rhys prologue. The prose in this, his searching for Cassian in case he is among the dead… this set up expectations for this book that were definitely not met in the rest of the book. •The Summer Solstice scene. Screw over Ianthe? SIGN ME UP.•The Feysand reunion in the townhouse. It was so sweet, & I really have no words for how much I liked it. I also loved Rhys’s comment to her about missing his friend as well as his lover/mate/wife. That’s relationship goals right there. I also liked that it was Lucien’s first view of the Night Court, & seeing his interaction with Amren (& this I am writing fic for from Lucien’s POV)•CASSIAN AND AZRIEL OHMYGOODNESS I LOVE MY GRINNING BAT BOYS. Cassian was easily the best part of the book, as well as the most in character (& HIS WINGS WERE HEALED I LEGIT ALMOST CRIED TEARS OF JOY). I love my precious fire bat, & his banter with Nesta. AND AZRIEL. My love for my precious shadowbat only grew this day. He has a wonderful sense of humor & I was glad we got to know him a bit more in this book. And when Feysand came down after their reunion, the general atmosphere between them & Lucien was perfect. (This is a part of the aforementioned planned Lucien POV fic)•The Inner Circle being the Inner Circle when it wasn’t used for damaging, poorly thought out plot twists (the dinner was so much fun)•The very, very beginning of the CoN scene where Feyre sits on the throne & Rhys was on the arm was perfectly in character & fit. Everything went to hell after that, but I liked this little bit.•The conversation between Tarquin & Feysand after the battle of Adriata. I want to write this scene from Tarquin’s POV because he got like no page time & my precious Summer Lord needs more love.•Speaking of which, the High Lords meeting. I really liked this scene overall. I even loved BitterTool!Tamlin salting over everything. I might consider writing at least some of the scene from his POV.•The Feyre & Azriel brotp healed my soul. Those two were amazing, especially for the flying lessons.•Ianthe’s death. Ding dong the witch is dead! (rip Suriel my scary, messy gossip girl 😭)•Nesta & Elain getting to be awesome at the end & take out the King.
There is actually more on this list than I expected. I might come across other scenes on a reread, but these are the concepts/scenes I can think of offhand :)
Was it just me or that CoN scene KILLED me! And not in a good way.
Oh boy, the CoN scene…
((I’m going to try to put it under a cut for spoilers))
I was already wary going in because I was warned, but I liked the very beginning of Feyre sitting on the throne & Rhys sitting on the arm. Very in character for what I would expect in the CoN.
It all went downhill the moment they walked into negotiations. That entire piece was absolutely awful and damaging and I don’t know who thought that was okay. What is sad is, SJM knows how to write abuse arcs correctly; she demonstrated that in both ACOTAR & ACOMAF. This sudden bs explanation for Eris, especially after Feyre tells Rhys when they first reunite that Eris is precisely as awful as Rhys described… I understand that hard decisions have to be made when you are backed into the corner or when you are a ruling power. But after running Mor over twice & completely taking away her agency, her voice, & the only place she feels safe from her father…. and then really no consequences after because Mor suddenly is understanding of what Rhys did?
Suffice it to say this scene was one of the worst in the entire book and Mor deserved better.
Hiya Prev feysand17 How are you? I was also disappointed by acowar but I did love it the Feysand reunion.( wanted it to be in Rhys pov) But I wholeheartedly agree with you I'm also carrying a tiny amount of salt
Hello! Honestly, I have more than a little salt for this book (even with trying to focus on the things I liked), but the more I see out of this fandom policing what opinions people are allowed to have, the sadder I become. This book has done more damage to this fandom & to the people in it than I thought was possible in such a short period of time, & has affected the respect I had for a few.
I honestly was fine with the scene not being in Rhys’s POV (though I’m sure it would be fun), but maybe someone will write a fic of it so that it will exist :)
