Hi! Here I am again, since I loved your insights on Doomsday. ;-)
So, let's continue talking about Ten's behaviour, this time in Rise of the Cybermen/Age of Steel.
In my opinion, Ten is rather distant and almost assholey towards Rose in this two-parter, especially when compared to Nine's incredible tenderness in Father's Day (and this despite the whole end-of-the-world + mutual-insults situation!). I totally understand what he says to her (that Parallel Pete is not her father, that her father died when she was 6 months old...) but... would it hurt you to also take her hand, hug her, say something about how you are sorry for what she must be feeling? So, I wonder[ed] why Ten behaves like this.
In this case, I had tried to answer myself by considering two hypotheses:
- "GitF is canon/it fits into S2" --> then I would sort of explain Ten's behaviour with keeping in line with his distancing from Rose and pushing her back towards Mickey after School Reunion and GitF;
- "GitF was originally planned as an episode at the beginning of S1, therefore is not to be considered canon" --> Yeah, Ten still is worried about his relationship with Rose, as of School Reunion, but then... is Mickey being aboard (and once again close to Rose) enough to justify Ten's distance?
What do you think?
TIA!
Hey! Firstly, I am so so sorry this has taken me nearly two weeks to reply to - life got in the way, deadlines and ridiculously unjust work demands, and then I lost all my DW files and have slowly had to re-download them 😂 but I'm here now! And I’m glad to see you in my inbox - hello lovely!
Ah, yes. Rise of the Cyberman. Post-GITF Ten. I can’t believe I’m about to agree with your hypothesis that GITF is canon but... here we are! And you're right, ten is an absolute arsehole to Rose in this episode, just as he is in GITF, and just as he is in SR. Honesty, its a wonder why we ship them??
Stuck with you, that's not so bad.
If I believe in one thing, just one thing, I believe in her.
How long are you going to stay with me? Forever.
I made my choice a long time ago and I'm never going to leave you.
Rose Tyler, defender of the Earth!
Does it need saying?
Rose, her name was, Rose, and we were together.
Tonight's a night for lost things being found.
Who's gonna hold his hand now?
ah right yes, that's why 😭
ANYWAY I digress. Ten's behaviour in ROTC is very... Ten. And his reaction, compared to Nine's, when Rose meets her dad is very different. But... understandable. Not condoning Ten's behaviour!! But, for a moment let's forget GITF exists (I mean, if you've not already):
Nine almost lost her to her dad. She's the one man she was happy to be stuck with ('stuck with you that's not so bad' FEELINGS 😭), and Nine initially shrugs it off. 'Fine, see if I care' sort of attitude (which, we all know he does, he's just frustrated that he's let himself fall for a girl he shouldn't really have). Ten adopts the complete opposite: he panics. He's desperate to keep her with him now, regardless of what's gone on in the last few episodes.
But see, the previous episodes did happen. This line is such a throw away line that we don't really notice it all that much, but he's addressing what happened between him and Reinette here:
He's saying this, because he's damn sure she's never trusted him less at that moment. He broke her trust by leaving, and it might look a lot like neither of them spoke about what happened, but he knows, and Ten's dumb enough that he doesn't just know when he messed up, he's told.
And so he's keeping hold of her at the beginning, too — body angled towards hers and his arm lazily reaching behind her to physically keep her close to him because he almost lost her.
Ten is incredibly selfish, and it's unbearable at the start of series 2. Nine regnerated into Ten literally for Rose, because he loved her and the last act of the Time War was a sacrifice for love. She came back for him, she absorbed the time vortex for him, so, as much as he finds it hard to believe, he knows somewhere that she loves him. He acts instinctively, he's so in love with her and she's about to die. Ten's born out of this unbearable love Nine held for her in this moment, to the point where Ten literally only exists to love Rose.
He's so sure of his love for her, that he takes it for granted.
Rose took the time vortex for him, and that's it then. She's in love with him, he's in love with her, so just go for it. But then comes actually... going for it, and he realises he can't. He's going to lose her, and he needs to bring them both back to reality because this is real. It's like when you fancy someone and you know, realistically, you can't have a future with them for whatever reason - different religion, one wants children while the other doesn't. You still go for it, because it gets to a certain point where you have to act on your feelings, but one day you will have to face those conflicts and you will always have to end things. Ten puts a stop to them, and the only way he can put a stop to them for her is by slapping her in the face with reality.
Again, Ten's an arsehole.
But then he slaps her in the face with reality so hard that he nearly loses her. He doesn't want that, but he can't exactly... declare his love for her after what he did.
"Rose, I know I've made you feel awful for being human and for leaving me behind by dying, and I know I did exactly that to you the very next day, but I love you and I don't want you to leave me behind."
Rose would rightfully bollock him. So he tries his best to rationalise, making this less about him telling her what to do and what he wants, and more about reminding her why she's living in a fairytale world where her dad never died and he's still alive. That is her dream come true, but, just as its impossible that they could have their happily ever after, it's impossible that her dad's still alive.
And you can see Mickey in the background getting pissed off, wincing at how bloody harsh he's being... but, he's right. He could have snapped at Ten for being an arse, telling him to go easy on her, but he doesn't, because somebody had to say it.
On Mickey, he's not convinced in any way that somethings going to happen to Rose to change her mind. He knows she's going to be alright, but the Doctor doesn't. He's panicking massively, and the fact that he's still being aggressive even here, without Rose, just goes to show how furious he is with himself for giving her a reason to leave him.
Imagine him, in the TARDIS and before Mickey arrives, cursing himself for what he did. Rightly so, because he was a dick, and this is almost satisfying to watch. But we don't get to see it explicitly, we only get the idea that, behind closed doors, he knows he fucked up big. He even admits that he's worrying about what's going to happen.
So bloody satisfying.
But then there's the other thing: she never existed in this world. Look at how he drops his facade for just a moment,
He doesn't say "well, of course not — why would you?", or point out that it's even more proof that this world isn't right for her, his hearts break for her. It's as bad as it gets for Rose - knowing that her mum and dad are happy in this world without her. She's not needed, literally anywhere. And that's when he shifts his tone.
He protects Pete, brings him with them because he knows how much he means to Rose,
but most of all, he reminds her that she's something, she's worth so much more than the lies she's telling herself, the lies he made her believe when he left her behind, that she's important and this world's got it wrong by not having her in it.
All these different worlds, not one of them gets it right.
Ten would go above and beyond to not admit his feelings for Rose — well, that's not true, he wouldn't admit his feelings for Rose to Rose — but ROTC/AOS marks a turning point for him. He got cocky, he took her feelings for granted, he took them for granted, and he nearly paid the price. He's not getting that close again, and, contrary to ROTC, he does declare his love for her from then on. He's unafraid to show it from the Idiot's Lantern onwards — he's terrified, because he knows he's going to lose her — but he lets his guard down because she deserves to know. She deserves to feel wanted, to feel important. He doesn't do that by telling her, he does it by showing her. By believing in her to defeat the devil, by fighting tooth and claw to get her back after her face — she — was stolen, by constantly putting his faith in her to save the day and save him, by telling her she's his hand to hold, she's his home, that, by the time he's giving her the option to live with her dad and be safe with her dad, she's empowered enough for make her own decision about what she really does want. And that's him.
His anger in this episode is completely directed towards himself. He's harsh with her, but it's in character, because Ten loathes himself so much that he's just filled with fury and rage. Tentoo's exactly the same, filled with blood and anger. He's not afraid to show it, but he also doesn't really know how to show anything else. He's either giddy and flirtatious, or tearing down his enemies — which is often himself. He doesn't deal with emotions at all, so when he feels things that terrifies him, he gets snappy. He gets impatient, things are rapidly falling out of his control and she he does anything to get them back.
Ten/Rose coming from GITF to ROTC is similar to Ten/Rose going from AOS to TIL. By the time 2.07 rolls round, they're madly in love. And it's why I think they spent a little bit of time at the Powell Estate mid-series 2, where he finally calms down and realises she's safe with him, and he takes the time to console her. She's lost Pete, she's lost Mickey, and now that he's not going to lose her, he loves her instead.
WOW this one got away from me — not sure I even answered your question?? 😂😂 But I hope you enjoyed either way!
(oh no i have forgotten what you've already answered) S and T for the fanfic ask game! if you've already answered them feel free to replace them with others :)
Hello darling! Thank you for this! ♥️
I have answered these! But you can never have too many 😂
S: Any fandom tropes you can't resist?
Sharing a bed. I meaaaan, anything that's got Nine/Ten Rose sharing a bed, when they're not dating, just... submerge me.
T: Any fandom tropes you can't stand?
Okay hear me out...
Declarations of love. But only because it makes me recoil, I can't stand declarations of love in rom coms and that stuff that it's even dafter for a dramatic 'I love you' in Doctor Who 😂 But that's not to say it can't be done right!
And I could go on a rant about this, but Ten's reaction to Rose's I love you was as close to ideal as possible — because he didn't immediately say it back. When somebody tells you they love you for the first time, give them a hot min. They've just built up the courage to say I love you. Ten just let her say it, didn't just echo it... but he did disappear before he said it in return... so it's an 8/10 from me.
Anyway, it's probably just me but I always cringe at declarations of love. Even the first time my boyfriend told me he loved me I ran away to another country.
... I'm not kidding. It was at the airport just before I got on a flight to China.
F: Share a snippet from one of your favourite dialogue scenes you've written and explain why you're proud of it.
Another one I enjoyed writing was from the stone rose, because I wrote it completely on the spot but it just made me happy 😂
“Speaking of remembering things,” she started, but then seemed to lose her nerve. He waited for her, and kept his hearts steady until she just about found her courage once more. “Can we not forget about that kiss?”
His hearts most certainly sank at that. “You don’t want to?”
It was quiet, frighteningly so, which is why he knew for certain that she didn’t reply audibly. She did, however, shake her head, and his grin in response was unabashed.
“Me neither,” he whispered, and he felt her smile through his shirt.
P: Are you what George R. R. Martin would call an "architect" or a "gardener"? (How much do you plan in advance, versus letting the storu unfold as you go?)
I've answered gardener to this, but I realise doomsday did actually take a heck of a lot of planning. One day I'll publish it haha.
I: Do you have a guilty pleasure in fic (reading or writing)?
Again, answered, but I also sometimes just love reading just sickeningly hurtful angst lmao. I don't know why man, I'm gonna blame the bipolar
I never realized how many times you edit your works before you post them. oh my god, thank you - your time is hugely appreciated by the fandom!
thanks!!
Yeah, fanfic... its like a part time job 😂 and we do it all for free on our own watch!
I always say you should write fanfic for yourself only... but it's nice to share it with others so they can get enjoyment out of it — if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
hello friend your asks are a party today haha! hope you’re having a good one! 💓 just a contribution to the POV conversation!
I’m sure I missed the origin of this convo but I think part of the beauty of POV selection is that it can drastically change the story you’re telling!! just as an example, a story that’s told with fluff and humor centered on jealousy and pining from the Doctor’s POV could be told as an angsty hurt/comfort fic from Rose’s POV! so I think the POV I choose personally is based off the story I want to tell and the desired vibes and all that, if that makes sense?
Sherly G my love!! Always room for you at the party♥️
That is such a good point!! Part of the fun I had with the bits in between series was deciding which character to write the perspective from. There were so many times where I've considered re-writing that whole series but from the other's perspective to see how different it would make it.
And I think you're right — all the prompts I've received, I've almost instantly known who I'm going to write from once I've decided the plot. It's interesting that we automatically assume a genre, right? Like if I'd get a jealousy prompt, it would likely be more fluffy if I wrote it from Rose's perspective, vs more angsty 'woe is me' from the Doctor's perspective.
K: What's the angstiest idea you've ever come up with?
Bloody hell, so many! Ha! One that I haven't started to write, probably because it's too painful, is Rose having grown old with the Doctor, and the slow 'wither and die' decline he has to witness.
M: Got any premises on the back burner that you'd care to share?
Other than the 25 lined up right now (😂), one that's in my mind that I haven't started yet is Jackie getting very sick, and Ten (or Tentoo) unexpectedly losing his mind, and we get to see a bit about how much Jackie means to him.
N: Is there a fic you wish someone else would write (or finish) for you?
I've answered this here and here, I'll try another! One of mine, actually, that people have requested I follow up and I even wrote (oh god, draft 26) is a follow up to hiraeth, where Ten remembers her conversation with Nine.
I only have one letter for you and it’s A. But do it for as many of your fics as you can be bothered to please and thank you
Oh my godddd this is cracking me up!! I love you 💕
A: How did you come up with the title to [insert fic]?
Those nonsense ones? Other-Wordly, a word that relates to the theme/setting/synopsis of the fic
Bits in-between series — guess 😂
Others are just either pieces of dialogue, or the settings. A few examples
amber and embers comes from the line those amber eyes flickered as embers sparked within them (and bonus, because Amber is @rcse real name!)
a thousand times but only once comes from the fact that Rose had had a thousand of these moments with Tentoo but with Ten only once
spaghettification and the singularity comes from their conversation about what happens on the event horizon and beyond!
eight, nine, ten involves the eighth Doctor, ninth Doctor (jacket) and tenth Doctor all being ridiculously in love with and influenced by Rose
2.04.1 and 2.09.1 are the episode numbers + 1, as in a new story added to the episode, but not quite 2.05 or 2.10... nonsense, yes. No reason behind it other than I'm lazy and love a good number.
If you do have any specifics, by all means ask! Haha! But my titles are usually the result of me taking a deep sigh and thinking to myself, 'what the heck is this' and writing the first thing I think of... so usually something I've just written 😂😂
I: Do you have a guilty pleasure in fic (reading or writing)?
Ha! I can never not read missing scenes. I just love them. Especially E-rated 😂
Z: Major character death—do you ever write/read it? Is there a character whose death you can't tolerate?
Answered, but only in response to reading it. So would I ever write it? Yes — and I have tried to write it, simply because I want to push myself as a writer.
