hii!! I've seen your post (or was it someone elses?) about comparing phantom mandarin hats. i tried looking it up, but im not sure when does it happen. I've seen pictures like ben lewis wear it, why exactly is this? was this an event? tqu!!
p.s. the post was a little old, maybe around 2018ish if not surrounding years, sorry if i caused some confusion🙏
Hi! I don't think that would have been my post; maybe this one? The Phantom wears the Mandarin robe and hat in the first lair, when he's composing and Christine wakes up and unmasks him, so Ben would have worn it during his time in the West End production.
As for why the character would wear it, it's a subject of speculation, but it's probably the equivalent of cozy at-home wear? Possibly something he picked up on his travels? It's such a gorgeous costume with a lot of amazing details.
Hi there. Idk if this question has been asked before, but where do they find the fabric for the mandarin coat?
I'd say there are as many answers as there are versions of the costume. But some pointers:
Many of the early versions were made with partly antique embroidered textiles from the Qing dynasty. These were a popular collector's item in the 19th and 20th century, to the point where some of them were never intended for use in China, they were made as souvenirs. The original design by Maria Bjørnson suggests antique Chinese fabrics, with a hem showing the classic water-and-mountain motif, the collar being a cloud collar usually seen in women's attires, and the hat a decorated winter hat.
Even if all these costumes are made from scratch rather than bought, I thought it could be interesting to compare it to a similar authentic Chinese robe - without the collar - dated to the 1890s and sold by Augusta Auctions some years ago:
This robe has a badge - an insignia of rank and position of a Mandarin official in the Qing dynasty. These were used both on the chest and back, and the bird or otherwise animal told onlookers all they needed to know, if the person was a civil or military employee, and how high up in the system they were. The badge is not featured in Bjørnson's design, but it has showed up in a few costumes. Maybe most proninently in Michael Crawford's original West End costume, which Bjørnson would have supervised:
To my eye it looks like many of the elder costumes (up until c. 2005) used a lot of antique or vintage fabrics, but used on a new base. Details to look for is distinct gold couching, re-used badges, special dragon embroideres, antique collars and tabards, fringework etc. I am quite convinced some of these are antique or vintage details, like the China blue tabard with water and mountain motif used by John Owen-Jones in West End c. 2002:
The cuff and details on one of the original Australian robes, and continued to shine in the World Tour up until 2015 or so:
The tabard of the Swedish/Danish version, first made in 1989 and still in use in 2019 (maybe not too visible in the stage photo, but definitely when seen up close backstage!):
As a contrast, newer costumes tends to be brassier and bigger, with less embroidery and more appliquées and trims. It looks to me like they mostly rely on new fabrics and materials, maybe with some elements of elder embroidery. This collar made for Ben Lewis in West End is a good example:
And the recent German version, here seen on Mathias Edenborn in Hamburg. It's a costume I got to study up close and I couldn't spot any particular details that looked old:
And this Broadway robe with what looks like a very new firefly pattern brocade and embroidered gold trims appliquéed on:
So why this change? I guess it depends on what is available. Qing textiles has become more rare on the open market, and more expensive. Elder textiles are also more fragile, while new textiles will handle wear and tear, dry cleaning etc. better. Some of these costumes are used on stage up to eight times a week, after all.
Due to the fragility of elder textiles, they may have to cover the embroidery with fine mesh. This dulls down the effect and makes the costume heavier, so it's not always ideal. Better then to use new stuff. Here's an early 1990 West End one covered with mesh, to protect the embroidery:
A last aspect is of course that by using elder textiles you may put specific meaning-bearing motifs on which ideally shouldn't be there. The beautiful embroidered Indian fabric with elephants and swastikas - in India a symbol of the sun and good luck - which appeared in an unfortunate Danish Elissa skirt is a good example. Luckilly the costume crew knew what they were doing by including the five bats - for good luck - on this Broadway Mandarin robe:
If you plan on making your own costume, I would say: Create the base of a Chinese brocade (silk or synthetic) with predominantely black or dark blue base and polychrome pattern. As an inspiration, here's the robe, collar and tabard - fairly undecorated - in making for Scott Davies (top) and Ben Lewis (bottom) in West End, with photos generously shared by head-of-costume Ceris Donovan:
For the back: Go for a main motif, and build everything around that. And layer! Gems upon trims upon embroideries upon fabrics. The more structure, embroidery, couching and details the various materials has, the better. And then add some on top of that.
Note that it varies if a production do both the robe, cloud collar and tabard. Some production only do two of these, some do all three. But whatever the case, the costume with hat should create angles, texture and lines that makes him stand out from the previous scene, where he wore black and white and tight-fitting clothes.
In West End I think they source it in the many amazing fabric shops in Brixton and Soho, including Borovicks, as well as antique dealers. For Broadway I know a lot was bought in the fabric district in NYC. Other productions may be equipped with fabrics and trims from these, or they may source their own materials locally. I also noticed that the Chinese (left) and Japanese (right) productions tend to use more red and purple fabrics for their versions, which I would think was also locally sourced:
So yeah. As many answers as there are versions out there...
Hi Anea! I was searching for "antique" chinese fabrics on the web and found there were many cheap brocade/embordered fabric on TaoBao that is similar to the fabric in the mandarin coat. Would it be a good idea to remake the mandarin coat using the fabrics? (0 experience first timer)
I mean, why not? I think the main thing about the costume is that it needs texture, surface, embroidery, fringes, details. And using brocades and embroidered fabrics will add to that. But I would make sure the base is made of solid fabrics. Chinese brocades are good in this aspect. Fragile, flimsy materials can be saved for the decorations, where they are put on another surface.
Apart from rich Chinese brocades and embroideries, you can also cut out motifs from suitable fabrics and apply them on to your robe / tabard. Add trims around it, maybe some sequins, and it's a super effective and sometimes money-saving feature.
The costume itself consists of four main features:
The main robe, straight, with long wide cuffs and a standing collar. This is often made of Chinese brocades, with some additional details on the cuffs and maybe collar.
The tabard, the sleeveless overgarment reminding of a long, loose waistcoat. This one can be straight or pointed, it may or may not have a collar, it can be open + tied at the sides, or sewn together, and the back is usually richly ornamented. Many versions also do a fringe or tassel trim at the hem. Sometimes the main robe and tabard is merged into one, or at least it's hard to tell where one ends and the other starts.
The cloud collar, a pointed, rounded and decorated collar. This is not done in all versions, as for example the US costumes only tend to indicate it with trims.
The round, pointed hat (which I won't really address here).
When they built a new costume for Ben Lewis in West End the base of the robe, tabard and collar was various Chinese brocades, but then slowly adding texture to the collar and the back of the tabard, using trims, embroidery, fringes, appliquees etc. The main robe itself doesn't need much decorations apart from the pattern and colours of the fabric. With the exception of the cuffs, of course. They are usually made of different rows of fabrics and trims.
Here's the Ben Lewis costume in making:
I didn't think that costume turned out super textured on stage. I would have liked to see a dash more surface to the collar. But I do like the various blue shades, especially that reminding of peacock blue. Here it is worn by David Thaxton some time later:
A new costume they made for Scott Davies and Tim Howar around the same time also had a base of chinese brocades, and with various structured trims, appliquees, embroideries etc. Again I don't think the collar is the most textured one in West End, but it is still cool to see it in process from costume workshop to stage.
The one they made for Marcus Lovett was more textured. Especially with that embroidered dragon back, but also the ornamentation of the collar. Here it is in making:
And as it appeared on stage, here worn by Ben Lewis:
I would also say the same logic can be applied to other versions of the costume around the world: Chinese brocades as a base, and various embroideries, trims, tassels and appliquees adding structure and bling to make it rich-looking.
Here's the Danish one, as worn by Tomas Ambt Kofod and John Martin Bengtsson. I love the bold blue nerve in the collar, cuffs and lining. It's also not super visible, but there is a lot of antique embroideries in the back and inner collar.
Many versions follow this composition, though with different colours, fabrics and details. Some will have a separate cloud collar, while others indicate a collar by the use of trims. The US is a good example. They do various trims around the neck and tabard, or the trims illuded a cloud collar that is an integrated part of the tabard. Here's Laird Mackintosh on Broadway:
And the back of what I think is the same costume, as worn by Hugh Panaro on Broadway:
The cloud collar shape is even less present - or rather, not at all - in the 1990s versions of the costume. Here's Michael Lackey and John Cudia in US Tour runs. Even if we're not talking the same costume, they are both made of a black and gold Chinese brocade for the main robe, and blue Chinese brocade with large, round ornaments for the tabard. The standing collar is accentuated by trims.
Same goes for the Australian and early World Tour ones. They did the main robe and tabard, but rarely the cloud collar. They did however do amazing vintage gold embroideries and silk-painted details. Here's one worn by Jonathan Roxmouth in his South African run. I love the wing pattern coming to view in the collar and back:
Same also goes for the Japanese ones. They do a main robe with a tabard on top, and the tabard has trims and details denoting a collar rather than a separate cloud collar. They have used many types of fabrics and colours throughout the years, but this recent purple one will forever remain a favourite. The first photo is Yuta Iwaki in Tokyo. I wanna say the second photo shows Osamu Takai, but don't quote me on that...
A final version I will post is this elder German one. Again, the cloud collar shape is only indicated by trims. But they have also added frog fatening in front, which I think is a nice detail. Depicted is Thomas Schulze in Hamburg:
I hope this at least gave you some inspirations on materials used, possible shapes, colours etc. :)
