#morbidsask

[morbidsmenagerie]

Hello, I am hoping for some advice on choosing a scorpion. I want an arid american species for sure, but I don't know if Centruroides sculpturatus, Hadrurus arizonensis, Paravaejovis spinigerus, a different species, or if I just shouldn't be looking into scorpions at all.

I have a 10 gallon set up with two blue death feigning beetles, Chowder and Gumbo, as well as an Orthoporus ornatus, Morb. I mostly just want more desert friends and a lot of resources suggested BDFBs and certain species of desert scorpions do well together. Morb can move to his own tank if need be as I couldn't find any confirmation one way or another if they can cohabitate.

There's 6 inches of substrate and the tank is heated. I prefer smaller species, and have no preference regarding arboreal vs terrestrial. I would love something that can be captive bred but it's not a big deal. Not looking to ever handle the beastie and I have no preference for activity level. I just love desert friends.

Personally paravaejovis spinigerus are one of my favorite species of all time, so I'd pretty much always recommend that. Centruroides sculpturatus are medically significant, so although they could also work in that set up I wouldn't get them unless you're experienced with scorpions. I don't really recommend Hadrurus, they're the only US native scorpion I'm not planning on getting. Similarly to bdfb and orthoporus, we haven't really gotten their care requirements down yet and they're almost impossible to breed in captivity. They need a deep, clay based substrate that they can dig permanent burrows into and are really sensitive to water and wet substrate. These requirements do overlap with bdfb and orthoporus tho so they can be cohabed. I'm honestly not sure if orthoporus can be cohabed with a scorpion? I believe they have some chemical defenses so the scorpion wont see them as food, and bdfb are too armored to really be appetizing to a scorpion which is why they dont get eaten. If you get a scorpion tho, make sure you get an adult, as a molting scorpion is an easy target for the bdfb.

There are other Arizona native scorpions that could probably work, but I think the three species you listed are your best bets. Most other species are a lot smaller and more at a risk of being eating by the beetles, I will say if you are comfortable with getting a c sculp being arboreal would keep it away from the other tank mates more which might make things less risky.

[morbidsmenagerie]

@ovvscolofex Unfortunately arachnid first aid is in its infancy, most of the knowledge we have about it is based on the tarantula keeping community, which pioneer such techniques as superglueing together breaks in the cuticle and inducing your tarantula to have a fever by keeping them hot to cure nematodes. These techniques mainly deal with breaks from drops, broken limbs, or other physical trauma to the tarantula. As of right now, no one knows how to cure bacterial or fungal infections once they've colonized the cuticle of the arachnid. Mycosis kills a lot of desert scorpions, even the smallest spot will quickly spread or cause the fungus to break off and circulate in the scorpions blood stream, and as of right now no one has any idea how to cure it.

This isn't mycosis, this is an altogether different thing. You have to appreciate what it feels like dealing with something so unknown. I don't know if its bacterial or fungal, or if it's dangerous, and how dangerous it is. I don't know if it will spread and kill her, or if it's just natural discoloration. No one really knows, because such things have never been studied before. Arachnid keeping as a whole is still a new subject, even more so than herp and reptile keeping.

The hermit crab treatments have been proven to cure fungal and bacterial infections on the cuticle of an arthopod, and that route seems safer than trying to use human remedies like using neosporin or something. The dosage of the bath is already adjusted to a small arthopod, and the ingredients have been proven to be nontoxic to at least some brand of arthopod (again, much less risk than using a human antiseptic).

As for whether or not the actual soaking itself is cruel, that's just silly. Tropical scorpions (especially heterometrus) have been shown time and time again to willingly enter bodies of water both in the wild and in captivity.

(the first pic is mine, the second I got off fb somewhere)

https://youtu.be/JN8_PLHW0Q4

Video of a scorpion (from an arid region at that!) walking along the bottom of a pool.

This is from František Kovarík's "Illustrated Catalog of Scorpions Part 1", the range of how long scorpions can hold their breath ranges from a couple days to well over a week, I typically say 2-3 days if people ask.

From the same book, the range of p. viatoris is listed as "West Africa", with the particular scorpion he was studying coming from Zambia.

This is in the "wet" band throughout the middle of Africa, which ranges from tropical regions in the central area to temperate forests and "woodland savanna" with seasonal heavy rains. I have stated several times I would not bathe a scorpion from an arid or semiarid environment, as they are much less equiped to deal with standing water.

I also place the scorpion in a dry dish and then slowly fill it up with the bathwater, so she has time to realize what's happening and close her spiracles (essentially "taking a breath"). I don't just dunk her into the water, and as previously stated I observe her the whole time and don't leave her longer than 10 minutes. It is no more cruel than cleaning out your dogs ears or giving medicine to your snake, of course they're going to be a little uncomfortable, but you're doing what's best for them.

[morbidsmenagerie]

How do you keep mold and fungus from growing in your enclosures? I had a pill bug colony start growing some weird fungus looking stuff.

Springtails are amazing! They won't stop mold once it's already established, but a healthy springtail population will keep molt from cropping up. In my isopod enclosures I also wet only the subtrate, not the leaf litter on top, and only feed on the dry side.

[morbidsmenagerie]

Where did you get your V carolinianus? Was it wild collected or captive bred?

Captive bred, got her from Nightmare Arachnoculture on FB, along with my d. cozumel and h. flavidulus.

[morbidsmenagerie]

You know Gil Wizen?! His work is incredible, he took AMAZING photos of my PhD study system (Bolitotherus cornutus) and every time I see his watermark is makes me happy.

He's in a few different bug discord servers I'm in, I've talked to him a few times, definitely one of the primer amblypygi experts I've ever encountered. He posts his photos in the server (and talked about the AI editing which is how I heard about it), his photos are great!

[morbidsmenagerie]

psst, is your Northern Scorpion still kicking? Still hoping to actually SEE one of these guys when Summer rolls back around

Yep! Hasnt molted yet and I haven't gotten many pictures of him recently, partially because I'm starting to doubt that ID so I want to wait until him and my supposed Paravaejovis waeringi molt so I can compare them. I'm suspecting they might both be P. waeringi 😭 ID is kinda difficult on immatures and I would need to look at the trichobothria and I just dont want to try that on a living scorp.

[morbidsmenagerie]

I sent in the ask asking about how to tell if a scorpion is mature or not the other day

This is my scorpion

I don't wanna bother them to much but I was wondering your opinion on if it's mature or not, I'm thinking mature based off of your post but I do know

Yeah that's a Heterometrus silenus, I would say adult but you miiiight get another molt in if they're a bigger individual.

[morbidsmenagerie]

Hi! I just wanted to say your invertebrates are beautiful!!! I get so excited when I see them on my dash

Thanks so much! I really appreciate it!