#musingsofaheretic

[wedontneedsocialjusticewarriors]

I won't try to drag this out too much more, but I think the main point at which we disagree is the level of influence a person's upbringing has on their choices later. Modern biology has shown that our nurture, even prenatal events, can profoundly change people. That being said, I think as women growing up in a traditionally patriarchal world, we have more internalized negative notions about ourselves and other women than we could even realize, and laws can't help. that kind of thing.

My parents are very supportive, but I was still told that I could “just find a nice rich guy” and be set for life. Even the most well-meaning parents from the 50s 60s era are going to be passing on patriarchal ideas that they got from their 20s, 30s parents, who got them from theirs. I think those ideas stick with us and effect us. Women who overcome those things probably just had more positive surroundings and support. Anyway, I’ll leave it at that. Thanks for the chat :)

I certainly agree that upbringing (or lack-thereof) has an influence, but yes--we do disagree on how much that influence is. I find that now with the power of the internet, that such influence means significantly less as we can be exposed to so many different view points from the comfort of our own homes.

As for laws, I do agree that a simple law won't change the way that people think, which is why, in my opinion, beneficial to work with the opposition rather than vehemently against them, because compromise (something that Tumblr as a whole seems to have forgotten exists) in maters such as this is important.

Thank you, as well--it's nice to have a discussion over these topics that remains civil. (:

-Skyfire

[wedontneedsocialjusticewarriors]

I should say that, when I said I wasn't trying to undermine your position, I really meant that I wasn't trying to disrespect you for your position! I do enjoy debate, which is inherently the act of trying to undermine your recipients logic haha.

You. I like you. :)

-Skyfire

[wedontneedsocialjusticewarriors]

I get your claim that they aren't paid as much because they don't do equal work (I'm not sure how these statistics are derived so i'll give you the benefit of the doubt). But isn't it important to consider that many women don't pursue those positions because they live in a society that has traditionally perceived women as intellectually inferior, meaning many women are raised with such beliefs? 30 year old women today were raised by kids of the 50s, that wasn't a good time for women.

If women aren't pursuing those careers due to societal pressures, what does that say about the women who currently hold positions in those careers? Are they simply stronger than the rest of us? 

I'm not pursuing a career in politics because less because I'm scared of what others would think and more so because I can't afford the education for it. That and, I've always been more interested in other things. 

If I were a woman raised during a bad time, I would certainly work very hard to make sure that the same thing didn't happen to my daughter (However, I will admit that I'm not the best authority on this particular subject, as I have no interest to become a mother myself; I lost my mother when I was very young and, having had an aloof father, was raised predominantly by myself).

-Skyfire

[wedontneedsocialjusticewarriors]

What's up? I just wanted to ask you something about the post about the Patriarchy being a "figment" of women's heads. Not trying to undermine your position or anything, just trying to understand it. How is it you claim there is no such thing as the Patriarchy when men still have more diplomatic and business positions, and women are paid less? Less than 100 years since we could vote, you don't think there are some residuals of a society that, indisputably, was historically patriarchal?

If the Patriarchy did in fact exist, then the men are awfully bad at running it. Women have the right to vote, can wear pretty much whatever we'd like, and aren't even required to register for selective service! 

I am a woman in the United States and, aside from being more likely to qualify for financial aid, I am more likely to be hired than a man at many different jobs, regardless of my qualifications simply because I am a woman.

Women aren't in diplomatic and business positions because they have a choice, and they chose not to pursue those careers. 

As far as I know, it is illegal to pay a woman less than a man for the same job (assuming same hours, etc.). If this happens, instead of complaining about it on Tumblr, go contact a lawyer and report it. The wage gap is only real if you don't take into consideration that different jobs pay different wages. Here's a great post discussing why the wage gap is a myth. 

I won't deny that our society is historically patriarchal, but I don't think that is evidence of a patriarchy existing today (in first world countries).

-Skyfire