Reply-Reply to Purified-Zone: Strider-Lalonde Agency
purified-zone replied to your post: Reply-Reply to Purified-Zone: Dave at Tanagra,...
Oh, so like when Rose started to wreck turtle shit trying to “break the game”?
Yeah, kinda. Rose felt like The Game was rigged, and she said “I’ll be damned if I’m gonna allow this” and starting tearing it apart for a way she and her Friends could escape. Dave was asserting that his life is his own, that his identity matters by choosing to go out the way he did, and also rejecting the absurdity of the Loops while simultaneously embracing the absurdity of his situation by accepting that only through dying so he could reincarnate in his Dream-Self, could he escape having to constantly be completing these ridiculous Time Loops.
Both were asserting that what they Want and Care about Matters, even in the face of Universal Obligations, though I think I’d say Rose’s fighting BecNoir was more similar analogy wise.
in your "Rose & Dirk" Pesterchum Inheritance post, what do you mean when you say "his agency would continue to be beholden to his Aspect" in relation to Dave hypothetically not killing Noir?
Oh, I just meant that Dave felt -and was probably right- that if he didn’t dead-end his loops at some point, then he’d be stuck dealing with loops forever. That, rather than making his own decisions as he wants, he’d be stuck playing out the decisions of future and past hims, which were themselves dictated by the necessity of maintaining Causality and avoiding Time-Paradoxes, as part of the necessity he faces of maintaining Causality and avoiding Time-Paradoxes.
EDIT 1: Kind of explains where his “the right decision is to never use it” opinion of Time Travel comes from, don’t it :p
Pesterchum Inheritance: GG: Jade and Jane: Psychology
[PART 1: S&CB] [PART 2:F&R]
Ok; SsssoOOo........ time to discuss Repression (:( (:( (:(
If you want to understand a character, some good places to start are their Motivations and what Frightens or Hurts them, and since there's basically No Way this post isn't going to be [:( to read, let's just jump right into the rough stuff >:|
What hurts Jade?
"Failing"
Not being able to fix things
and "Letting Others Down"
Hints of how she responds to this hurt have already been seen;
with Denial of and Disgust at herself yes but, not to be forgotten,
with an intense and explosive Rage. When Jade sees "weakness" and "failure" in herself, she gets pissed, and we know from her pursuit of John and her reaction to Dave's BS while grimbark that, while she doesn't express it at others, she sometimes feels a similar anger at the "weakness" of others as well.
Jane is hurt by the same things. As seen in Part 2's GG/TT section, her drive to enter the Session was in part fear for her Friends' safety and thus, since she is the Leader, a fear of her own failure
and while her B-Day Catastrophe may be what opens the floodgates, following it we see how her inability to Find Her Father
and to Save Calliope
has been contributing to the strain she is under, through how it helps to fuel her continuing breakdown.
Jane's emotional responses to this -of Rage, Self Blame, and Self-Disgust- also match with Jade's.
But why such violent, even explosive, reactions? In a suitably paradoxical round-about-way, Jane straight-up tells us.
The things Jane and Jade said and did while mind-controlled were things they usually wouldn't have said or done. Actions come with Emotions; even something as simple as a feeling of rightness or necessity, or dismissive disdain for the consequences others will pay for one's actions is still an emotional motivation tied to a discreet act[1]. I include this for pedantry's sake, but this is a proviso unneeded in the case of MC'd!Jade&Jane's behavior since they were quite open
about the Emotions
driving their behavior. These emotions -Anger, Frustration, Vengefulness, Ruthlessness, Desire- drive their actions while under Condy's control and these are the emotions they typically suppress and hide from others.
So Jade and Jane's Rage is so explosive because they suppress it all the time, but we already knew that (:( The real question is; why do they suppress these feelings?
To answer that I think we need to take a wider view, and look at other things they hide, how they hide them, why they eventually discuss them, and the emotions hidden along with them.
Jane hides her botanical and gardening past by flat-out refusing to talk about it, hiding her Frustration in the process
Jade Shared her stories With Calliope, but did so thinking she might be dead, thinking she remembered Calliope, feeling vaguely guilty about things she might have done, and as part of "resting" while in the Bubbles, which she's been in previously and knows the function of; that is to say, as a conscious act of catharsis.
Jade tells John about her taxidermied attic-corpse only when events force her hand, and even then tries to keep it secret, only being honest about it when John presses the matter
All this, along with Jade's reaction to Jadesprite and what Jane has to say about her birthday wish
suggest a reason. The GGs deeply wish to be helpful and, related to this, to not "be a burden" to others. Specifically, the GGs see being a source of positivity, support, and improvement in others' lives -feeling only good things, always "helping" their friends whether through support or correction of error, trying to never be the cause or source of negative feelings&experiences for them- as a sort of duty. This means they see their Emotions -and the emotional impact they have on others, which is to say, the Emotions of others- as being just as much a part of their Duty as their actions are. That necessarily means they feel they must be in control of their emotions just as much as they feel they must be in control of what they do and say.
Jade hides her corpse and dissociates from it; "its nothing secret" -this thing I'm keeping a secret from you- "or personal" -my corpse, that I grew up seeing often, knowing it meant I'd die- "or anything.... it is just something kind of sad and weird for you to see" she says, never mentioning how it makes her feel, directly erasing her emotions from the equation, making the conversation entirely about John and how her actions impact his emotions. In discussing her own corpse, her own house, her own past, Jade removes every part of herself from the conversation except for her concern for John and his state of mind. Because that is appropriate, supportive, and kind, and the rest of it is just some "sad and weird" thing he doesn't need to hear(no matter how much she needs to tell it [:[).
Jane shows us how repressing and erasing oneself in-the-moment directly relates to this oversized sense of responsibility derived from a Duty to Be Positive/Good when discussing her birthday with Dirk. She simultaneously takes responsibility for their crumby situation, while blaming herself for denying it -"What a farce. I was trying to act as if we were all living normal well adjusted lives, albeit in a marvelous fantasy setting populated by skeletons"- while mocking herself for trying to fix it[2]-"And if only we just had some cake and worse some hats and I blew out all the candles in one big puff, we could all pretend all the problems we had with each other would magically stop existing."- while also blaming herself via this wish for the Trickster Arc(which really isn't her fault considering the magnetic attraction the Lollipops showed in each others presence) -"And the most horrifying thing of all is, I actually got my wish! Haha. Thanks, Calliope." Having failed to fix things, Jane's immediate response in the aftermath is to use her motivating desire to be a purely positive force by making her party about others -and her conviction to think positively in the grimmest situation- a reason to blame herself entirely for everything bad in their Session.
By removing herself, her feelings, and her experience Jade sought to "protect" John and his happiness; by failing to keep everyone happy and safe, a bad situation becomes all about Jane's failures. The latter response is merely the negative of the former; the same reaction flipped around its outcome. That there is a certain Atlasian egotism in expecting oneself to be responsible for how events play out and how others feel about them should not pass unnoticed, even if Jade and Jane never seem to realize this about themselves.
So; what connects a person wanting to be a totally positive force, to the point of erasing themselves from discussions of their own death and beating themselves for expressing sadness and fear, and a person immediately jumping to total self-blame when things go south? If you already see yourself as being positive, why would you feel the need to achieve it? If you truly saw yourself as accomplished and helpful, why would you fear letting others down? Jade and Jane want to be positive and want to be helpful because they see themselves as negative and burdens.
Jade's early life provides a likely answer for why she sees herself this way. She grew up in the shadow of her own approaching death, thinking her Grandfather had either been killed by a blue doll that terrified her or committed suicide,
and having to take care of herself, her Tower, and Bec while randomly falling into Vriska-induced sleep. The difficulty this "narcolepsy" would have introduced to everyday tasks, combined with the self-blame she likely felt for her Grandfather's "suicide"(such a response to suicide is common, especially in children. Also, consider how she argues with his stuffed corpse, putting herself in the position of having to "prove" that she is responsible and capable; if something has to be proved, then it isn't sure), could easily cause one to consider oneself a "Disappointment". Jade expects herself to Handle everything emotionally and physically by herself -to literally be Omnipotent: All-Able- because for most of her life She Had To. She was the only one, and if her grandpa killed himself then -in her eyes- she'd already failed being "good enough" at least once. The difference between what needed to be done and what she actually managed, between her expectations and her reality, created her sense of herself as an Impotent Disappointment, her fear of being so, and her related drive to never be Impotent again.
The source of Jane's negative self-assessment is more difficult to see, and I think the underlying reason is different. Unlike Jade, there is nothing about Jane's life that would fundamentally undermine her self-confidence, and thus drive her to Achieve and Commit Competence as proof of her worth, nor a loss she could blame herself for causing through "Failure". Jane grows up assured in her wealth and social status as the CrockerCorp Heiress, albeit subject to Condy's subliminal programming. To get at why she fears being/sees herself as a letdown, I think we need to look again at her self-censorship, and how she behaves without it.
Jane talks about being once interested in amateur botany. Botany isn't just gardening, it's the science of plants, and it's a wider field than just pumpkins. Jane's intro tells us about the botany, tells us she grew vegetables, and tells us she stopped the lot of it out of frustration over disappearing vegetables. This Log with Roxy specifies that it was Pumpkins that were disappearing. What is hidden from us is how Jane responded to this frustration and what, exactly, she did with her botany plants.
When she botches her romance discussion with Jake she does so by refusing to talk honestly about her desires. She doesn't put herself and her wants first, being more concerned with avoiding pain and embarrassment, ends up furious with herself for this lack of drive and daring, and suppresses this fury as part of being "A Good Friend". She later takes that fury out on an entirely innocent Tobias Funke poster.
As a Crocker-Tier Cyborg bereft of her normal self-control, Jane Is Short and Uncivil, Condescending and Tyrannical, Violent and Ruthless about doing what needs to be done to achieve her goals, no matter who it hurts. Her Potion-Selling to Kanaya also heavily implies she attempted to love-potion Jake, an action she kept secret from even Roxy.
Jane's target in emotional suppression isn't emotions that make her feel or remind her of being impotent or a burden, as with Jade. Rather, what Jane is most concerned with suppressing and hiding are her anger and ruthless tendencies; that willingness to say "That's IT" and kill off everything she grew out of spite at a single disappearing species. While Jane still does wish to be able and in control, she focuses more on the "positive" side of the equation. Jane fears "letting her friends down" by taking her desire to "be in control" too far by giving in to her cruelty(and egotism, though again, I'm not sure how aware Jane is of that side of herself). Thus the differences in the pair while under Condy's Power; Jade revels in and frequently mentions things she can do and her "omnipotence", while Jane displays and revels in contempt, ambition, desire, and easy violence.
Which, morbidly perhaps, brings us back to who they find romantically appealing, and why. For the GGs, Dave/sprite and Jake bring out the sides of themselves they are confident in, like, and want to present. At the same time -through their humor and collaboration- these Friends give them an "escape" from the sides of themselves they find unappealing(Dave/Davesprite helping Jade feel competent through their artist collabs; Jake giving Jane an "out" from her controlling tendencies and anger through their initially easier relationship), and both remind the GGs that they are part of wider community of Friends, undermining the isolation their emotional repression and self-fears -and the internal "secret" life those create- naturally cause them to feel.
CONCLUSION
The GGs fear that they will let people down, and they fear this because, frankly, they are WAY too hard on themselves. They expect themselves to be emotionally perfect -to never feel angry, to never want selfishly, to never share or act from their deep sadnesses because that would be a burden- and this is basically impossible, beyond being seriously unhealthy. Instead of seeking internal resolution or outside counsel, they sublimate these feelings into Actions, but while this may make them physically "stronger" and more skillful, or "get stuff done", it leaves their real issues unresolved, festering, and waiting for the right match to ignite them. Rather than dealing with this, they look outside of themselves to Romance, essentially for escape through reprieve, but this is doomed to failure; emotional suppression breeds emotional anxiety and dishonesty, which ensures a partner -no matter how well-meaning- will never be able to help them "fix" what's wrong. That solution requires Honesty and, I think, the healthiest moments we see for Jade and Jane are those ones where they are speaking openly and honestly with people who they care about, who care for them, and who really listen. Jane and Dirk's conversation in the Crypts, Jane's narration of her Session to Calliope, Jade's B2 argument with Dave, Jade's end-of-Session Logs with John, Jade's cathartic openness with Calliope in Callie's dream fort; these moments when Jade and Jane are dropping their guard are Jade and Jane at their best. The GGs need more of this. They need to become comfortable with being honest about themselves with themselves, showing others what they truly feel, and letting those who love them carry some of that load.
[PART 1:S&CB] [PART 2:F&R]
NOTES
[1]Priority -whether the emotion is summoned to justify a want or creates it- is irrelevant to whether the connection between Emotion and Act exists(besides being a super complicated question in itself that I will mercifully not side-track onto here). The impact of mood disorders and fatigue-symptoms upon drive, however, suggests to me that Emotion has a very mechanical prominence and priority in Motivation and the creation of Action that is often overlooked or deliberately downplayed(though not dealing specifically with these issues, Harlow's morally atrocious Monkey Studies, and the newer, kinder, "Rat Companion" experiments also point to this connection between emotion and motivation). There's also a discussion to be had here about the concepts of "value" and utility, their essential subjectivity, and thus their inherent "Emotional" quality. Obviously, I don't have space here for either discussion, and it's also kind of pretentious(italics for extra :p), but I kind of had to touch on them a bit given the assertion I'm making above. Or at least I felt I did, because I place value on trying not to make "Blind Arguments" that seem to come out of nowhere, which is itself, as I've suggested, an "emotional" motivation :]
[2]How can she be both in denial of problems and trying to fix them at the same time? Because one can only deny what one is aware of, and that second-tier awareness, which one hides even from oneself except when alone, compels someone set on "Being Helpful" towards fixing it. Denial is an Ignorance born of Awareness; much like Emotional Repression is a short-term outer Order bought at the price of long-term inner Turmoil. This doesn't have anything to do with this argument really, I just like pointing out paradoxes and how they are resolved by perspective :] :]
Pesterchum Inheritance: GG: Jade and Jane: Friendships and Romance
[PART 1:S&CB] [PART 3:PSYCH]
Unlike the other Pesterchum Pairs, Jane and Jade don't relate to other people in similar ways and for similar reasons, but rather deal with each Friend uniquely. Their similarity in relationships goes beyond taking a personal touch, however; Jane and Jade relate to each of the other Pairs in similar ways. While Jane and Jade show different faces to different people, Jane's friendships with Dirk, Roxy, and Jake are remarkably similar in structure and foundation to Jade's friendships with Rose, Dave, and John.
GG/TT
Dirk does not hesitate to launch into Complex, Theoretical discussions with Jane. He sees in her a mental-quickness, focus, and resolve reflecting his own, even when Jane doubts it.
And while Jane may express doubt about her understanding of irony and ability to wrap her brain around Dirk's complex cerebralizing, she actually holds her own rather well; asking edifying questions,
standing up for her own sense of style and taste,
expressing impressive insights,
and displaying a firm grasp of the connection of irony and sincerity at the very moment she denies it.
The same intellectual respect can be seen between Jade and Rose. Rose is inclined to see John's gift as a pushy dig at her personality and interests, but she listens to and respects Jade's insight on the matter.
And when Rose needs advice from a friend, not only does she -Exclusively for most of their Session- go to Jade, but Jade is upfront about her foreknowledge with Rose, rather than downplaying or attempting to hide it as she does with John and Dave.
Whereas Dave sees Jade as a bit weird and in need of protecting, and John sees Jade as alienated and in need of inclusion, Rose recognizes Jade's difference, incessantly ferrets it out,
but trusts it, and treats it as something Jade shouldn't be ashamed or secretive about.
This mutual trust and respect between GGs and TTs isn't purely intellectual, however. As effusive as their texting can be, Jade and Jane are actually far more reticent to talk about their lives(as seen in Jane's Private Breakdowns and by Jade's serial dishonesty about Bec, Grandpa Harley, and her visions) than even the evasive and "stoic" TTs. The two pairs will talk to each other, though.
To Jane, Dirk is open about his difficulties with AR,
and his unique experience as a Hero of Heart
in a way he isn't with Roxy and Jake. Jane returns the favor through opening up to him about her feelings of guilt regarding her treatment of Roxy
and her fears about what will happen if they delay playing The Game
Similarly, Rose is comfortable being confused,
lost,
and needy
with Jade in a way she typically isn't with John and Dave. She brings Jade her insecurities
and trusts her advice, while to John and Dave she presents herself as a counselor, guide, and source of information.
GGs and TTs respect each other intellectually and temperamentally, and this is the foundation for a deep, seldom commented upon trust and mutual reliance. That trust, never mentioned directly but introduced and built naturalistically through their conversations, might be why the heart-baring end-of-session dialogues between these pairs don't come as a surprise to the reader, or seem terribly out of place. Of course Rose would take her True, Complicated Feelings for her mother to Jade, the first friend she was ever comfortable letting see her insecurity; and who better for Jade to admit her feelings of social inadequacy to than the first person she trusted with her closest secrets? Of course Dirk would confess his obsessive insecurity to Jane, the friend he thinks of as an intellectual equal(or at least, near equal) and allowed to see him as less than completely competent; and who better for Jane to work through her embarrassment and self-disappointment with than the friend who has talked her through those doubts
in the past?
GG/GT
The GG/GT relationships are a bit different in their emotional motivations(Jane desires Jake sexually and romantically, whereas John is family to Jade), but the nature of the Jade/John and Jane/Jake relationships(how they treat each other, what they do for each other emotionally and socially) are still very similar.
Both GGs worry about their GT Friends, and have important Dream-Experiences built around them. Jade Fixes John's Dream Graffiti, anxiously awaits his awakening, and Dream-Dies Protecting Him, while Jane Sees Jake's Funeral and Tells Him to be Careful.
The GTs worry about the GGs in turn, though their expression of that concern so far has been less immediate and dramatic. John Worries about Jade's Isolation, so he makes a point of including her in their group
and letting her set the pace honesty-ways rather than pushing, while rolling his eyes at Dave and Rose's spooky-Jade-talk.
there's a distance between Jane and others for various reason(class-consciousness, Crocker-pride, diction/grammar, her skepticism) and Jake undermines this separation in a way similar to how John does Jade's isolation. He does so passively through things like their shared anachronistic speech and his simple friendship as an English, when CrockerCorp and Skaianet were known to be vicious corporate rivals. He also just has a more informal, laid-back approach to Jane than their other friends; where Dirk is a fellow Heir and protege who Jane wants to impress, and Roxy's friendship dear but a constant challenge, Jake deals with Jane as just a regular kid and friend.
Part of this more laid back relationship is that they easily joke around with each other. John and Jade's earliest conversations are mostly srs bznz, but as Jade begins to play the game proper(rather than just supporting her Friends while setting stuff up behind the scenes) they Start to Goof Off, and the easy-going jokery increases from there, often with them discussing their other Friends,
and sometimes exchanging references,
Jane and Jake's are similarly chummy, though there's less direct joking and more conversational humor. They discuss their mutual Strider-Lalonde travails,
and Jake plays up his persona around Jane, using more asterisk-asides, and using anachronistic-sounding constructions slightly more often when speaking with her(I'm not too sure on this last part; I didn't bother counting, it's just my sense from the logs).
The GGs and GTs also exchange motivation, taking time to cheer each other on and express their Friend-Faith, though the Harley-Englishs tend more towards the motivating, and the Crocker-Egberts towards the needing of it.
And the GTs tend to turn to the GGs with their Romance Worries, though in the case of Jane And Jake that doesn't end up playing out so well (:/
Which brings up an important point; while in general the GGs find an easier friendship in the GTs -one lacking in formality, distance, and game playing- that isn't to say they are relationships entirely without stress and strain. Over time, the more negative aspects of the GT character leads to GG frustration, which the GG penchant for reticent repression rather than honesty mentioned above builds into an explosion.
Jane's romantic ambitions both cause and amplify the stress in her relationship with Jake, though only when she Isn't Allowed to Avoid the Issue of romance, and Jake's tendency to cede responsibility for relationships to others through excessive trust exacerbates this further[1]. Jane stresses over revealing her feelings, stresses over keeping them secret, and berates herself for "missing her chance" while mourning the loss of it; stress that is only amplified by her decision to endure Jake's Rom-Chats as his relationship with Dirk begins to collapse. In this way, Jane's repression combines with Jake's excessive aversion to conflict, self-doubt-induced over-reliance on others to help him "know" and manage his emotions, and the illusion of egotism this creates(his desire to talk through his issues with Jane, her refusal to discuss what she really feels in turn, and the one-sided conversations this leads to) to create her blow up at him.
John and Jade have similar moments of stress such as when he gives WV, the Bunny, and CD a send off while Jade Watches, unable to contact him because he's forgotten his computer, and due to his Ridiculous Behavior during the Meteor Trip(that whole log really, but from here to the end is when he's infuriating her the most, imo). Her Desire to chase Him Down while Grimbark suggests what sort of emotions Jade was repressing in response to John's least flattering moments. As Jane Says, their behavior during that time was particularly uninhibited, and what little we see of her interactions with John(during This Flash, for instance) involved her either chasing John, or smacking him around; if Grimbark!Jade wanted to beat up John, and Jade Isn't a typically violent person, then anger and frustration at John that she's refrained from voicing in the past is a good bet for why she'd want to trash him once her filters are turned off. When GGs/GTs are both not at their best GTs can certainly grate on GG nerves, but, having said that, the Core of Fondness which central to their typically more mellow Friendship endures vuv
GG/TG
For the GGs, Dave and Roxy are simultaneously their most engaging and most frustrating Friendships.
Jade and Jane spend the most time with Dave and Roxy respectively, both in-person(Frog-Hunting, Jade/Davesprite; working as a team during the Months of Futility) and In Chat(technically, Jane's post-mind control logs with Jake give him slightly more, but those are rather short and one-sided, imo. Regardless, this point is debatable). Humor
is a big part
of their interactions.
They also tend to keep(or at least, try to keep) each other on track, and not always in a Game sense. Dave Tricks Jade into Slapping Herself awake after the Sepucrow Incident, and Jade reels Dave In when his facades are showing or he loses the reins on a joke.
Jane unleashes the Full Fury of Friendnagging on Roxy's Game-related recalcitrance, and corrects/chastises her grammar and questionably unintentional mistyping.
while Roxy Repeatedly Reminds Jane of her duty to Amorous Ambition, and tries to calm her rage post birthday Jake-chat.
Romance seems to be a particularly stressful and fraught topic for them; there is Jade and Davesprite's failed romance[2] and Roxy's Jakestakes guilt-tripping reff'd above obviously, but there's also Jane's Rom-Drom Fueled Blowup at Roxy
and Jade and Dave's Meandering and Infuriating Log over Davesprite and Jade's failed romance with him.
It also needs to be said(as the above Jade/Dave log makes clear, I think) that the TGs can be very manipulative towards the GGs when they feel it is justified, and that they don't shirk from Hurting or Putting the GGs In Danger through this manipulation. This cannot but add to the strain in their Friendships, particularly when the GGs have the relationship to their emotions that they do. To someone who Works at being nice, "being nice" is necessarily the product of Effort and so, to them, any trickery or manipulation for a close friend would come across as doubly negative; first in-itself, and secondly for, in the eyes of the repressor, "taking advantage" of this "Work" or "Effort" by implicitly betting that forgiveness will be forthcoming for the trespass.
ROMANCE
GGs seem to prefer, as can be judged by their choice in paramours, people who make them laugh, and with whom they share personal qualities/experiences.
Jade and Davesprite have Both Sacrificed their lives for Their Friends, both Experienced the Irrevocable Loss of those Friends through Death, and both know what it's like to Be A Gamesprite. One of the first things both Jade and Dave did upon entering The Game was make themselves a whole bunch of flashy, fashionable clothes :]
Jane and Jake both stand out through their odd and anachronistic speech,
are both Corporate Inheritors with a Decided Preference for their Corporation's Products, and both tend naturally towards what are, in their culture, roles and personal presentations deemed "appropriate" for another gender. Jane is a natural leader -who sees leadership as her natural place and privilege- with a well-hidden iron-fisted ruthlessness under her genteel veneer, and who prefers wearing pants and enjoys/identifies with mustaches(not only is she Attracted to men with them, she Likes Wearing Them). Jake tends towards a passive role in his relationships and his Story is, so far, very much that of a Fairy-Tale or Medieval Romance Damsel(alone in a tower built by his female Guardian who then left or died; guarded or imprisoned by monsters; averse to violence and strife while easily making friends even with "beasts"; destined to "save the kingdom" and deliver a terrible villain their first defeat, somehow, but very likely not through violence; abused, used, and manipulated by an evil fairy-witch) and enjoys Donning Hotpants.
However, neither Jade nor Jane are really confident about or comfortable with romance, their feelings relating to it, or talking about it.
With Jane this is particularly obvious given that her shyness/discomfort is a central part of her Story; she starts off hiding her romantic ambitions from Jake, Flubs Discussing Her Feelings in a truly spectacular fashion, Explodes from the combined strain of keeping these feelings secret and being constantly reminded of them by Jake's coming to her for relationship advice, and expresses them selfishly through Domineering Objectification while under the influence of HiC's inhibition-inhibiting mind-control.
Jade's romantic anxiety isn't as obvious or as central to her Story, but it's still there. She initially Hides Her Romance with Davesprite from John, then Hides Their Breakup until John's birthday, when Davesprite's absence can't help but be noticed. When she, as deinhibited Grimbark!Jade, finally sees Dave again, that meeting quickly devolves into An Argument About That Romance and all the frustration Daves give her.
And what does this result in? Jane and Jade, uncomfortable with Romance, suppress those feelings, feel Self-Directed Anger due to this awkwardness, then suppress that too(the link is for pedantic thoroughness; if you've read this far you know which log that is >:|). Uncomfortable with such emotions and finding it personally difficult to open up to others, they accept "losing" relationships they deeply desire while forcing themselves to continue friendly interactions, making their feelings of heart-break even worse (:( The same reticence then amplifies the problem a final time by ensuring that they will primarily seek catharsis through sublimation(turning their hurt into action while denying it to the world), leaving their issues unresolved. For the GGs, honest discussion and genuine catharsis remains a studiously avoided last resort(Jane's Crypt-Convo with Dirk; Jade's corpse and break up confessions to John, her openness to Calli in the Dream-Fort, discussing her fears of social ineptness with Rose only when Rose is trying to talk to her about her mother's death) (:( (:(
[PART 3:PSYCH] [PART 1:S&CB]
NOTES
[1]I'm putting this in the notes since this post is about the GGs, not fleshing out Jake. Some would say "his cluelessness" here instead, but Jake isn't clueless by any means; as He Says Here, he has pieced together that Jane has feelings for him, and he only begins to act as if she doesn't after she tells him that(also there's his trolling of Caliborn over the word gay; don't forget Jake's as much John as he is Jade :p). Jake's part of causing this strain isn't being unaware, but not trusting his social instincts or himself, and believing he can compensate for his insecurities by letting his Friends have all the initiative, and putting too much on them. Trusting other people to make your decisions for you because you don't trust yourself to do it, beyond being pretty selfish in the amount of pressure it places on well meaning Friends, is very dangerous and can easily lead to unhealthy places, as Jake's Arc pretty well shows.
[2]And who knows how that'll play out now, in a questionable new TL where Jade and DS may have had enough time to start, but DS was killed before it could go anywhere, particularly if Jaspersprite wasn't the only one to hitch a LoWaS ride.
I enjoyed your post comparing Jade & Jane's dialog styles, since you used actual data (although I like hard numbers, e.g. number of ellipses used). There are 2 minor notes I would like to make. Although it's never seen in comic, Jane's first modus we know about was the Fibonacci heap, so you should specify that sentence as the first modi one we actually see. You noted you were referring to dialog early in this arcs, but Jade's overall cursing rate 0.19% is higher than Jane's 0.12%.
That’s good to know; thanks for the data :)
My Pesterchum Inheritance posts tend to be more impressionistic than entirely empirical, particularly in the Psych and conclusion parts where more often than not I'm more trying to suggest a new way to look at the characters than say this is "definitely" who they are, so I appreciate folks who take the time to get the actual numbers “checking my work” and correcting my reader-sense of the issue, as it were :p
Also, I really like your Lexical Maps and Analyses, so getting a comment from you on the subject is personally rather pleasing uvu
Pesterchum Inheritance: GG: Jade and Jane: Style and Callbacks
[PART 2: F&R] [PART 3:PSYCH]
Jane is more formal and orderly than Jade in how she types, but there are similarities. The story similarities are what really tie the GGs together, and that'll take a bit longer to cover.
Style
Both have a strong preference for ending their sentences with punctuation(though Jade seems to loosen up on this over time, particularly on reaching God-Tier), make prolific use of emoticons, and, when using emoticons, tend to place them outside end punctuation(though again, Jade gradually beings slipping on this, using emoticons as end punctuation later on in the B1 Session).
Both use multi-clause inputs from their first full chat-logs(meaning they don't break up clauses by making a new line),
both type in all-caps when shouting,
both have an early aversion to expletives(Jane's less so. As per theorigamiphoenix my original impression Was Wrong On This Jade actually curses at a higher rate than Jane[1]), an affection for laughter-based onomatopoeia, a tendency to multiply punctuation when excited or infuriated, and an itchy shift-1 finger when happy
They are also, among the Kids of Universe B, the staunchest devotees of the ellipsis :)
Callbacks
Both have their first pesterlogs with GT Players, and both of those conversations regard gifts, the Sburb Session, and their respective teams' TT Player.
In their introduction pages, both are described as having a fascination with particular FAUNA; Jade enjoys those of an anthropomorphic bent, while Jane favors the frightening. Both were at one point aspiring gardeners, and both shared a frustration born of vanishing pumpkins,
You once dabbled in AMATEUR BOTANY but found it TOO FRUSTRATING, because your VEGETABLES KEPT DISAP-actually you know what, you DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT.
Nevertheless, when you spend time in your GARDEN ATRIUM, the only thing on your mind is your deep passion for HORTICULTURE.
yet their responses differed. Jane abandoned horticulture due to the ganking of her gourds while Jade persisted despite the disappearances.
Both are early Prospit-wakers(likely the earliest after the Striders, who never seem to have been asleep on Derse in the first place), whose pre-entry behavior is strongly influenced by thier GT Prospit Dreaming. Both experienced explosions outside their homes early in their stories(though again there are important differences; Jane's explosion happened to her, while Jade was merely a witness to her's), both were kept away from those explosions by First Guardians, and those explosions were closely related to Cloud-Vision-Flashes detailing how their respective Teams would Enter their Sessions. Later on, both are also flung from their homes by explosions, and both appear to have been caught by convenient First-Guardian-placed furniture.
Jade and Jane's mutually dead grandpas also seem to have a significant impact on their lives(though Jane's is recognized as dead from the beginning, while Jade's is teased as being still alive). Both keep pictures of their grandpas plastered to the lids of their respective chests, and both express admiration for their progenitors, as well as a desire to follow in their footsteps. Poppop Crocker was a noted stand-up comedian, magician, and sit-com star, and Jane has a notable affection for sit-coms, particularly those feature gentlemen of the mustachioed persuasion(like Pop-pop Crocker); Jade's interests in gadgetry, science, and firearms are similarly inspired by Grandpa Harley's life.
Both possess the stuffed corpses of their grand-fathers, kept in their living-room/foyers, directly in front of the fireplace. They confront their mortified ancestor regarding the quality of their respective equipment with similar panels, both plan to place their taxidermied forefathers into the kernel-sprite, and both are prevented by Mind-Control and their respective First Guardians.
Speaking of forebears and inheritance, Jane and Jade are both heiresses to the Crocker Baking Empire,
and we meet them at a point where they both have an actually useful Fetch Modi(though Jane started off with the Fibonacci Heap Modus; a frustratingly complex system she mocks herself for ever using. Thanks to theorigamiphoenix for catching me missing this and sending in a correction ^u^); Jade's, a gift from her Grandpa, and Jane's an invention of the company she stands to inherit. Interestingly, their Alt-Universe-Selves(Jade English and Jane Egbert) are not the sibling to inherit the Batterwitch's company and fortune, though both plot and fail in their own ways to bring her down.
Miscellaneously, both possess a robot, both keep their Favorite Books within their chests, both have their server player changed, and both end up working closely with a Red-text Strider before entering, and during the early phase of, their Session.
Lastly, Jade and Jane both fulfill their roles as Heiresses of the Batterwitch in a more literal sense; Both get Brain-Ganked by Her Imperious Condescension once the B1 Kids arrive.
[PART 2: F&R] [PART 3:PSYCH]
NOTES
[1]I should probably also go back and look at how they use expletives. I get the sense that they use it more to intensify statements rather than as stand-alone expressions, but I never really read to check that so I could be wrong.
Minor Pesterchum Inheritance Announcement Interlude
Whew!
Ok, so some of you may or may not have noticed that I haven't been posting much analysis lately. That's because a few weeks ago I FINALLY got through my block on the GG Pesterchum Inheritance post, and I've been spending all my free time writing on that, mostly because of time concerns and a superstitious worry that I might get "derailed" if I tried to keep up with asks. There were still a few rough bits in there where I didn't write for a few days or could only get through a paragraph or two a day, but I just blazed through the last post easy as could be yesterday and today, so I'm going to start posting them ^u^
So, for those who don't know the drill -which is, like, 70% of you at this point since I've gained a Metric Gaper Load of followers since the last time I posted to this series(which I started working on, like, a week after I started this blog -_-)- there will be three posts -Style and Callbacks, Friendships and Romance, and Psychology, which will include a short conclusion- all but the first will be LONG, though most of this will be my quoted evidence from HS rather than my argument. I will post one of them a day for the next three days(including today), probably at ~5 or 6PM CST when most USians are on. There will probably be some errors I missed in the editing because my brain is a filthy traitor who enjoys laughing at my petty failures >:(
After I get them all posted I'll be adding links on each post to the other two in its group, and once this one is all posted I'll be adding a new "Page" to my blog-proper for Pesterchum Inheritance where all these posts can be found. Anyway, thanks for your patience on this ^u^(but also (:/ )
~Note from the Management: We would also like to take a moment to thank our Dear, Sweet, Precious, Dear, Dear, Sweet Readers for their Gracious Tolerance of Our Staff's troubles regarding this post series, motivation, and efficient time-management[Note from Author: >|P Low blow, Management; I think that one drew blood >:| From today until the End of today, you have made yourself an enemy >:]]. Your continued Patronage is, As Always, Appreciated.
