I don't know what's so difficult about something as basic as tone/context and how it fundamentally changes the way you're supposed to react to media or how literally to take it (ie: Moe whacking Larry over the head with a frying pan is totally different than if it happened in Schiendler's List or whatever), but it sure seems to be really difficult for some people.
Genre, tone, context, literary background, format, target audience, purpose: none of these can be ignored when analyzing a piece of media. SW is tonally and structurally as different from a long episodic animated tv series targeted to children as it is from an HBO show. You can’t use the same discourse and criteria indiscriminately to analyze everything.
I have issues with Face the Raven too and would love to read your thoughts
My big freaking problem with Face the Raven can be summarized as thus: Clara behaves stupidly for the sake of making sure a plot element happens, and she didn’t have to behave stupidly for that plot element to happen.
(This post turned longer than I thought and I’m sort of second-guessing about posting it but here we go. Not tagging it since this isn’t a fight I want to kick up 2.5 years after the fact. :V)
I’m going to be upfront and say I haven’t seen the episode in a while, so I’m not quoting on verbatim or anything. But really, I still, to this day, don’t get why they made Clara’s ego be the crux of the plot. Clara’s crazy overconfidence, to the point of being rather obnoxious about it, gets her killed. Why.
We understand that the point of the story is “oh no, Clara is becoming more and more like the Doctor, and not everything about the Doctor is good”. Right. Got it. We also understand that some of the negative aspects include a sort of cocky, presumptive, overconfidence in one’s self, which doesn’t always work for humans (hence the “I’m less breakable than you” line). Okay. Got it.
But this seemed to get amped up in Face the Raven in a way that wasn’t present before. Throughout s9 we saw Clara be more assertive and comfortable in that commanding role. However - and this is a big however - we also always saw her in emotive or vulnerable situations. It was the bravery slipping and her humanity showing. Being trapped in a Dalek and in tears upon being released. Angry and lashing out when 12 says it’s his time to die under the lake. Able to console and comfort 12 when he couldn’t figure out a way to save the viking village.
Face the Raven seemed to forget about that, except for the very beginning and the very end. And all this is leading to my one thing that could be done instead, and it would still result in Clara facing the raven, but with a motivation actually true to her character: have her take the countdown from Rigsy not out of smug overconfidence, but because he has a family and she cannot allow that to be broken.
There. Done.
That motivation ties into what we know about Clara - mothering, nuturing, protective. An echo was a governess, she looked after the Maitland kids, she is a schoolteacher. It would tie into the beginning of the episode, when she’s admiring Lucy. It would tie into Clara’s past, with how she lost her mother, and how she wouldn’t want that on someone else. It would make her behavior less motivated by blind stupidity for the sake of a plot point and instead motivated by her humanity and wanting to help anyone and everyone, while ultimately and sadly realizing that she as a human cannot do certain things no matter how much she wants to because, simply, she’s breakable. Life is risks, and the life of time traveler has bigger risks. This is a risk she lost.
And that’s my problem and why I have a hard time enjoying Face the Raven for anything more than Lucy being the cutest thing ever and the intense, romantic scene between 12 and Clara at the end. It takes a character that employed her cleverness and wit and gained confidence to the point of being another Doctor, but decided to punish her for it. Great, just the lesson I want for the audience: Hey audience, you can’t be the Doctor, because you’re human and breakable, so fuck you.
What’s most maddening to me is that I’m not even going to complain about her dying. Shouldn’t that be my problem? But crazy enough, that’s not my problem. My problem is that the script takes Clara and cranks up her hubris to make a point, which simultaneously makes me cringe. If there’s one emotion I remember feeling (other than gut-wrenching heartbreak, let’s compartmentalize that one for now), it was being uncomfortable. I didn’t feel like what Clara was doing was in line with the character. Shit like hanging out of the TARDIS, what the heck was that about.
I mean...given how she behaves at the end with 12...like shit got real so the illusion shattered? I’m now thinking in string-of-consciousness thoughts, and it’s getting me to a place where the more I think about the episode, the more I’m having problems with it.
The 'Kylo is hotter' take sends me round the bend: it's??? the sAME PERSON?!? I also see so many posts like 'you guys want a pure, beige cardigan-wearing cinnamon roll but That Boy is dead and he can never go back' and it's the most infuriating nonsense. People don't want healing- being whole & functional isn't sexy- and people apparently still have no idea what redemption is or of what it consists. What about ANY of the SW heroes makes them think good guys have to be boring perfect care bears?
Biiiig fuckin mood.
It really kind of disgusts me that people look at Ben, who is saying stuff like “It’s too late” while crying at his father who is begging him to come home, or telling Snoke that “I gave everything to you. To the Dark Side” when his Master berates him for being devastated over killing his dad, and then even Snoke himself remarks that “You’re no Vader, you’re just a child in a mask” and in the TLJ novelization notes that he had never stopped being Ben Solo or a light and compassionate person and they’re like “How dare you want him to be Ben Solo again he’s dead sweaty?? Kylo Ren is who he is” and you’re the idiot for reading the story as it is given to you textually and wanting this character to stop hurting himself through bad coping methods that have given him nothing but misery. Fuck that? Fuck that.
But tumblr doesn’t care because it’s all about idealizing bad coping methods and shaming people who are trying to get better :))
reachexceedinggrasp replied to your post “I think you don't need help, you've got it pretty good from your...”
The Regina 'take him to my bedchamber' scene is way too deliberate to be unintentional imo. They just didn't take it seriously (or expect the audience to) because it's female-on-male. The ongoing nature of it they probably didn't even think about.
Yeah, I wasn’t even thinking about that line but it’s way too blatant to be taken any other way.
And that’s what I’m talking about when I say they don’t think to the future at all. If they had put literally 2 seconds of thought into it might have thought, “Hmm. Maybe we should ease up on those implications if we plan of ever redeeming this character,” but they didn’t and here we are.
reachexceedinggrasp said: The timeline on the show isn’t nearly as long as it FEELS like it is, either. For the characters, Regina’s last attempt on their lives was extremely recent and it’s ridiculous that they act like her villainy is in the distant past.
You’re totally right. I mentioned that in the original reply to the ask about Graham. This show feels like it’s been running for ages but really only the first season took place in more or less real time. S2 is probably the season I remember the least well but S3 was the Neverland Family Camping Trip which couldn’t have taken too long, then the missing year/hiatus, and then the Zelena fiasco which also couldn’t have taken very long.
This season was especially ridiculous because the Frozen stuff happened over two weeks, tops. Some of the episodes take place in the same day or even the same couple of hours. And the QOD stuff happened over basically the same amount of time, with a couple of months in between. If, within this year, you’ve tried to kill someone, you shouldn’t be out on the streets, even if you’re not currently trying to kill anyone.
And not only do they act like Regina’s crimes were in the past, they act like they were done by a completely different person. Like you know how Bruce Banner refers to the Hulk as, “The Other Guy”? That’s what it’s like with “Regina” and “The Evil Queen” except it’s just a distancing technique because she does not have the gamma radiation excuse. When Bruce turns into the Hulk it literally messes with his brain chemistry. The difference between Regina and the Evil Queen is just several yards of fabric and some hair products.
elaine-august said: What’s AU?? That kept me from getting this completely. Other than that, I’m still not sure how I feel about that twist. Altho I agree with you, they’re too far in the madness to do something “normal”.
AU=Alternate Universe
reachexceedinggrasp said: I don’t know how this show can have a great example of a humanly nuanced, grey villain with sympathetic motives (S1-3 Rumple imo) AND a ridiculous travesty where the narrative starts coddling an unrepentant monster (Regina).
Yeah, the show’s internal logic is really weird. Two characters will do the same thing and one will be (rightfully) raked over the coals for it and the other will face no repercussions. It wouldn’t even be so bad if they handwaved everything. The fact that they only do it sometimes is what really makes me crazy.
