An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, an silly ask for an silly ask :3
plz tell me of your JayTim thoughts as well, or/and perhaps your JayRoy thoughts
-redhoodinternaldialectical
Ship ask game
jaytim first! under a read more cause i love to talk <3
What made you ship it?
oop- i dont remember the exact moment or any specific Thing that made me ship them (partially cause it was too long ago) but also i think because mostly it was inevitable for me to be into jaytim as a ship
they just have soooo much that i care about! i fuck heavy with the post-crisis characterizations, and like you touched on, and like the lovely @kevin-day-is-bi has mentioned in this post that i think about Constantly -- jason and tim are just so interconnected its impossible for me to not to keep them tied together in some manner
this kind of leads into question two which is: What are your favorite things about the ship?
but really what aren't my favorite things about this ship? lmao
they're just So Unwell about each other. tim can't stand jason but continuously makes major life decisions based on jason's death and shadow. jason says he cant stand tim but also can't stop singing his praises. like theres just So Much going on between them that i'll never get them out of my head
it's hard to (read: impossible) to separate early tim from jason because of how he's being held up to jason's ghost throughout most of his own tenure as robin- so its endlessly fascinating to me to see how they interact and how they /could/ interact once jason returns
what's that @cleromancy post "what if the cautionary tale and the thing that spawned in its wreckage that couldnt exist without him on purpose kissed" (<- yet another post i think about all the time. it's just. so good and true)
and that brings us to question 3: Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?
im also really not into the use of "replacement" as a pet name for tim from jason- not really for the same reasons, but just because i dont like the widespread use of it in general. i think it really flattens out their dynamic and im a little annoyed that its actually a canon thing jason has called tim now ajshgjhg
HOWEVER i am a Big Fan of the actual canon insult "pretender"
i think it plays up their early dynamic when jason uses it earnestly and then is just a fun little callback when their relationship isnt so straight up antagonistic- it just doesnt hold a lot of bite after jason runs around talking about how tim takes his beatings "like a man"
hehe and yes ill do jayroy too
What made you ship it?
i dont remember /exactly/ but odds are it was either a jayroytim fic (more likely) or i just got curious after i got too annoyed with rhato and dropped it lmao
What are your favorite things about the ship?
theres a lot to like about this ship but i think part of it is how easily it fits these two wildly different dynamics for them- cause there's the canon of them being best friends- the build of trust between them as they work together, and it gives this soft edge to the way they rib each other
but on the other hand, its So Easy to play into darker dynamics if you set their relationship earlier on- yknow, have them meet back when jason was still robin and roy is doing something wrong by pursuing him
it is funny to me that as a general rule i do prefer the softer side for jayroy (just because i looooove to play into darker dynamics in my fiction) but i think a lot of the time in jason's ships its this rough antagonistic sort of love and jayroy is where i turn when i want something softer for him
its incredibly easy for me to see them build this super domestic life together around their vigilante work and i think thats a major part of the draw for me when i need a break from putting jason through the wringer with everything else he has going on lmaooo
Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship?
i like roy and lian to have a place in gotham when hes involved with jason
and l o o k i know, okay- i know that there is no fucking reason for roy to live in gotham, and that it plays into the batcentric bullshit making all the other dc characters revolve around the bats- but i dont wanna deal with the logistics of long distance relationships and jason will Never move out of gotham (and i dont want him to lol)
Re: Stalker Tim, what do you think Tim would keep around as like physical mementos to put on his Dick Grayson stalker shrine? Like I've got case details and newspaper clippings and The Photo of flying grayson dick holding itty bitty timmy of course, but I'm wondering if you have any ideas for something more interesting?
I may or may not be contemplating this for a future chapter of one of my fics...
-redhoodinternaldialectical
cant believe i missed this for 2 whole weeks... im blind and a fool...
i like to go full freak with stalker tim. security footage taken from security cameras thru less than legitimate means, strands of hair and other forms of DNA (what if tim needs to clone him!!), all of his medical records, profiles on every single person dick has had a meaningful interaction with. do u see my vision
I dug deep on my Heteroooo Mia headcanon in my last post, so I’ll take advantage of this one to talk a bit about Mia and sex, especifically. Warning for allusions to csa and child trafficking.
I’ve talked about this with other shippers but I think she’d love very involved roleplaying. She likely has past experiences with those kinds of games, and not good ones (yet, at the same time, pretending someone else can afford you some distance), so she might’ve been unsure at first, but to her surprise and delight, it’s immensely fun. Especially with costumes involved, which is something she ponders and jokes about out loud with other capes, Because.
I think she and Jason would feed into each other with this (because you know this would be a shared kink). Through anyone else’s eyes, the result is way too convoluted and complicated. These two are building up an entire film, a saga. They’re enjoying themselves immensely.
I also have this headcanon that her limits, her comfort zone, are in constant movement. Not static, shifting, hard to predict. What sometimes feels right, other times becomes a hard limit. If sometimes giving head feels active, feels like being in charge, feels like indulging in how much she can affect the guy, other times the posture itself feels degrading. If sometimes certain possessiveness makes her feel wanted and desired, as herself and not just a body and a means to an end, there are other times when it feels like ownership and she gets the urge to escape. Or simply, physical touches that usually cause pleasure will suddenly, without her being able to find an explanation, feel awkward and immensely unsexy. It’s a headache and a half, and something that can add to her insecurities about being too “high maintenance” (unlovable) in a romantic relationship.
I have a several loose ideas about Jason cuckolding Bernard (or Tim! Sometimes Tim must be punished 😌) running in the background of my head and I am never going to write any of them, you are welcome to them
damiaaaaaaaaaan!!!! i!!!! yes!! okay i will definitely write something with this then 👀👀
if you wanna share the ideas you do have in your brain i would love to hear them 🥺👉👈 (if not no worries!)
i dont have anything against it and im sure that plenty of authors can do it well but i've never sought it out in my life and i dont even really remember if ive read any that focused on that and weren't like,, , ,threesomes with 2 of the same character for whatever reason and then a third separate person 🤔
time loops!!!! thats an A for sure, if i see a time loop tag i am So There
there is just something so juicy about stripping a person down and forcing them to confront who they would be in a world with no consequences and seeing if they learn from that or not
(this doesnt even just go for fanfics, i love time loop media- if yall havent watched happy death day or palm springs please do so!!! and then come talk to me about them lmaooo, i know a fun fact about happy death day that i love to share lmao)
2, 5, and 28 for the fanfic writer ask game pls :3
Fic Ask Game
2. Which of your fics is your pride and joy?
all of them lmao. no but really why is this so hard to answer??
RoRoR (jayroytim) seems to be the fan favorite lol, but i am quite partial to gilded cage (jaytim with vampire!dick) despite how short it is, and Grey Swan Theory (jaytim with multiverse genderbent shenanigans) because i had so much fun playing with tim's pov after writing the first part of that series
5. What’s something you learned while researching a fic?
uuuuhhhh, i dont really write much that actually requires research? not lately at least. i do vaguely remember going down research holes back in some of my older fandoms (but that was long enough ago that i dont remember what they were), and so far i haven't included details in any of my dc fic that have needed me to look anything up
28. What's the angstiest idea you've ever come up with?
probably this jaytim idea, where tim kills and falls into a relationship with jason, spiraling further and further down because of the damage killing someone does to his mental state. and jason knows tim is getting worse, running himself ragged, wearing himself down, and so he takes it upon himself to wreck their relationship and push tim back to bruce
YESSSSSS i would love to read what you've got sorted out for your Dick alters :D
*does an evil little cheerleader dance*
-redhoodinternaldialectical
Hi! I liked the Ric arc. Conceptually. Sort of. It has many problems but it stuck with me. Most of my DIDick notes are tucked away in my DMs so I'm gonna do my best to go over all that! (and according to my writing program this is over 1.6K words so. whoops?)
By the end of the Ric arc, Dick has what are essentially 3-4 different lives in his noggin. I think the crystal shit is honestly more fucked up if he /doesn't/ have DID. And I was also just enamored with Ric, and all of the "we want you to come home Dick!!" that he was dealing with. Waking up for the first time and being bombarded by people insisting that you're someone else? It works so well for a DID story.
As I continued to think about/work on it, it grew far past just covering Ric/Talon/Joker. I ended up going through the major turning points in Dick’s life and sort of walking through it, and seeing who I would end up with.
In the canon I'm most attached to Dick is sent to juvie for a while before ending up with Bruce. That's where I imagine their mind first starting to take shape.
Robin: A baby. All those happy memories of /before/ tucked away where they can be protected. Any pronouns, too young to really be concerned with much. They're an all around bundle of joy that almost never gets to come out despite wanting to explore and make friends. It's just too dangerous, and they have to stay "pure". This is essentially how they stay, a time capsule that never ages. For simplicity's sake, I'll refer to them as "Baby Robin" instead of Robin for the rest of this.
Dick/Magpie: Dick sees Magpie as his imaginary friend. Magpie sees Dick as her partner in crime. The two co-front and switch places a lot, and are generally pretty close. Dick is still exposed to the horrors of the outside world enough to not /think/ he's missing anything, but Magpie takes on what he can't.
They slowly but surely become distant as time passes. Dick completely forgets about her by the time he turns 13. For most of their life Dick is completely in the dark. It's easier like this, when there's a face recognized by the outside world that doesn't need to know the details. It's easier to lie when you don't know you're doing it.
There's a period around 10-14 where everything gets /messy/ and memories get weird, particularly where the Joker is involved.
Dolly: A little girl with big dreams. She thinks herself much more mature than she is, and doesn't understand what's so wrong about Humbert Humbert. "He really did love her, you know?". Joker showers her in the attention that she couldn't find anywhere else at the time. He's the only person who knows she exists even including the others inside the system. He's the first person outside the system to know that there /is/ a system in the first place. Magpie eventually gets some indication of Dolly's existence, but she doesn't act on it. Has no clue what can even be done for Dolly in this situation.
It does make moving in with the Teen Titans an easy decision. They need to be away from Bruce for a bit, need to just leave Gotham and get it together. The stress of it all still keeps picking up while they're with the Titans. It's no easy feat to manage a team while trying to balance their own mental state(s).
Elle: Originally unnamed, but Baby Robin thought they should be named after Elle Woods because they're "smart and cool like her!" but the resemblance pretty much ends there. They're very no nonsense and short tempered. They don't control the body at all, instead managing things from an inside perspective. They know just about everything about everyone. Like Oracle, but for the system and all that encompasses. They can occasionally co-front and speak if need be, but prefer not to. Cannot move the body if they were to front alone.
X: Do I even need to explain. X, Apprentice, eventually Renegade, it has many names, X just stuck the best. Rose ends up calling it René though. Slade gets to call it whatever he wants. X is pretty morally neutral. Doesn't seek to do harm, but follows orders without guilt or hesitation. Doesn't talk, sometimes it just can't, sometimes it just doesn't want to. Slade has heard its voice the most out of anybody. Its mental image of itself has no face, only a warped echo of the mask that Robin once wore. Not actually as mean as it might seem, especially when Slade isn’t around for it to serve. Slade was surprised when he found out about the system, but rolls with it in a way that earns him at least a little favor with most of them.
Maggie (Magpie): She's quiet during the teen years. She can't bring herself to talk to the Titans, seeing them as Dick's friends and not hers. She's lonely. Honestly, she’s a pretty normal teenage girl.
Dolly: Went dormant when they left Gotham.
Dick still helps in Gotham for a while. Until he gets fired by Batman. It sets everything a bit sideways. Dick is sort of leading the charge for a while and is so annoying about it that a coup is briefly considered. This is around the time he falls in with Eddie and Liu, eventually losing his virginity to the latter. Maggie doesn’t handle that last part well. It does end in Dick establishing Nightwing, and most are content with that, but Maggie still occasionally ends up with the memories that Dick pushes out. It eats at her and eats at her, and she never really recovers. Maggie is stuck in a permanent state of being sixteen after this.
Life goes on. Life goes wrong. Jason dies. Everything is messy again. Eventually Dolly comes back, but more as an adult this time. Doesn’t mean she’s well adjusted though. She’s selfish, reckless, and far too attached to the demon in their head. Did I mention the Joker introject? Good. Neither did any of them. It’s an open secret, a he-who-shall-not-be-named type of situation.
Joker: “My pronouns are eat/my/ass.” He’s pretty much exactly how you think he’d be. He gained some influence after Dick tried to kill the original Joker, but he’s always been this ambiguous boogeyman. Doesn’t really go out of his way to fuck shit up, and mainly sticks to fucking with his Dolly.
Lola/Dolores (Dolly): Can't lie, she’s my favorite. She's got so many issues, but carries herself with a mix of playfulness and flirtation. She's a /woman/ now and isn't afraid to remind you, /Papa/. She thinks of Lulu Belle as being her “girlhood self”. It’s a lot more pleasant to cling to memories of when she and Bruce met and got along through the occasional “cross-dressing” mission than it is to think about what most of her younger years were like. She’s prone to manic episodes, and is frequently enabled by Joker. She drinks, she plays, and she gets yelled at by Elle about making sure she at least uses protection.
Dolores and Joker are effectively married (derogatory). It’s obviously really bad for Dolores. She doesn’t really distinguish between her introject husband and the original Joker, often prone to breakdowns when he sees the original with other women. She fucking hates Harley so damn much, and Punchline when that all happens. It doesn’t really come to anything, but it does mess her up emotionally.
It goes on like that. The Blockbuster incident proves to be another low. They keep pulling themselves together into something functional just to be broken down again. Dolores forces her way to the front a lot. She already had a drinking problem, but it doesn’t really get better. At least that makes for a good excuse as to why Dick’s memories are so full of holes.
Then Jason is back. He’s intimidating. He doesn’t know, but he can see through them more than most. They keep him at a distance when they can, because it’s terrifying feeling so exposed.
And then there’s the headshot and the crystal. All previous alters are essentially locked out, and for a while it’s just Ric.
Ric: He’s angry and hurting. Why wouldn’t he be? Everyone looks at him and treats him like a man that he’s never met. They /hate/ him for not being that person. He’s reckless and guarded, but softens up around people who don’t know the stranger he’s supposed to be. He doesn’t know Slade, but he would've fallen for him easily. Also of note is that he ends up as one of those alcoholics turned health bros, in large part due to finding out that he’s a part of a system. He has a huge soft spot for animals and kids, and is pretty nice to those who deserve it. He’s not afraid to tell people when he thinks they /don’t/ deserve it though. The most date-able of them all tbh.
Talon: It’s a feral animal. All its memories, thoughts, and feelings are incoherent and abstract.
Joker: He’s given memories of being abused by the Graysons’ and the original Joker gets cemented in his mind as his dad. The aftermath of being groomed and controlled by the original Joker really fucks him up. He gets pretty forcibly humanized. He’s still not great, but he’s slightly better now that he’s learned about concepts like “pain” and “trauma” first hand. He’s morally improved and mad about it. He misses being evil and guiltless.
Eventually the previous alters come back after the crystal is taken care of. It’s a fucking trip for Dick, because he’s finding out about all of them for the first time. From here they’d ideally stay away from the bats while they sort out/adjust to all that.
So, I'm writing a long fanfic based around the characterizations of the various Bats in the 80s-00s time frame, and Nightwing is gonna be important but I don't have a good grasp of his personality yet. I'm currently reading through The Resurrection of Ras Al Ghul, but that and a few of the 2016 issues are all I've got to go off of right now.
Do you have any comics you'd recommend for getting a good grasp of his personality and general vibes?
I'd also be happy to read any kind of ramble about his personality/appeal you feel like writing. Having read your fanfiction I feel like (sincere compliment:) you are the exact kind of unhinged I want to get character opinions from.
(Also you mentioned Dick being in the mob which sounds Very Fun and I wanna know what titles so I can read that)
-redhoodinternaldialectical on anon cause sideblog
ok first of all. im flattered. i feel so powerful rn.
and second of all... my 'to read' list is embarrassingly long, and dick's been around and in a lot of comics so i have a lot of trouble keeping up ;-; but i will try my best!!
The New Teen Titans gets recommended a lot as a starting point for Dick as Nightwing, and while i havent read much of it, the stuff i have read has been pretty solid and i get why its so popular.
Nightwing 1996 is my personal go to comic for Dick, mainly bc it was his first real solo run. (it's often listed as "volume 2" of nightwing, but volume 1 aka Nightwing 1995 was really more of a test drive just to see if they should make a Nightwing solo series) It's also where Dick joins the mob! although that came off the tail end of a lot of different plot points.
(This is a bit unrelated, but in general I think knowing a bit of irl context to certain comic events is important. Like, at one point Bludhaven is nuked off the map. It doesn't make sense, and it was most likely due to some higher up DC nonsense. And Nightwing 1996's second annual is written by a man. etc etc.)
... I actually have a guide I've been working on, main reasons being quick reference for what happens where, and that writing these things down helps me remember them better
as you can probably tell, I still have a ways to go. looking at this now i'm starting to realize that i am really down bad for him lol
Mobbed Up (where Dick gets adopted by a random mob boss who took one look at his depressed mug as he was getting fired from the police force and said "new son?") is issues #107-111
I feel like I should get back to character thoughts.
Dick on his own is deeply serious, he has a job to do and it's incredibly important that he does it right. In the beginning this serves as an invaluable asset, but as he loses more people it starts to turn into more destructive. A trait that is morphed by his traumas into obsessiveness.
Dick when Tim comes to visit (or just when he's around people he cares about) is a bit softer, it's subtle, but it shows that he's aware of/cares for the people around him.
Dick with Bruce around seems to worry so much about proving himself, about being seen as a respectable peer, that it backfires into making him come off more insecure and as a bit of a "rebellious teen". (which is exactly what he's trying to avoid when he strikes out on his own) I've read various arcs and issues but I haven't actually read any focused on Dick and Bruce aside from the ones towards the beginning, so I'm sure their relationship must change, but this is how they were when Dick had first moved to Blud.
I feel like Bludhaven is also important to talk about. It's very much meant to be "Gotham, but worse". It's a place that even Batman wouldn't bother with, a place beyond saving. I'm... kind of breaking my own heart, thinking about how much Dick put into this city, only to. To fail? In a sense? A hero's home city isn't usually obliterated like that. The only other example that comes to mind is Hal Jordan's, and Hal literally went insane and became a space terrorist to bring it back. Dick is just... forced to move on.
And Dick goes back to NYC. Nightwing patrolling Gotham with any regularity feels very modern. He shows up when there's a major event and DC wants to capitalize on having a bunch of names in the same series, and he shows up when something drastic changes (like a new robin, or a death). Dick has however spent a lot of time in NYC, either because of the Titans or because. yknow. home go boom.
Anyways. Arc recs. Unironically I need you to read Brothers in Blood. Get past the initial gross out factor of Tentatodd and it's a great look at Jason and Dick's relationship. This is #118-122 and right after Bludhaven gets nuked. Dick has just experienced the lowest lows that one could low. Jason seems to know all about it, and tries to help in the worst way possible. Jason is right and blunt and convoluted and so so insecure about where he stands with Dick. Dick doesn't know where he stands with Jason either, on account of all the murder, and his tactless approach to trying to confront Dick on the copious amounts of trauma that Dick is dealing with. BiB is my Jaydick bible.
I'd also say to just give the first few arcs a shot. Beginnings are meant for introductions! It gives a good sense of who Dick is, why he's here, and what his goals are. Exposition baby! And I'm once again thinking about how ultimately Dick kind of fails said goals. I love him but he makes me so emo. Blockbuster has also been his main villain since the beginning, up until. Yknow. He became deader than his namesake. There's also a few fear toxin based issues that are good for. well. understanding what his fears are. There's also a fear toxin scene in Batman: Orphans, but i'll just reblog the post i made of it so u don't have to read that one. The art is fun, the story is weird and just kinda. meh.
#60 is when Dick joins the force. The beginning of the end, so to speak, but we don't meet Catalina until #71.
#93 is That Issue. The infamous rape scene. The thing about his time with Catalina is that it was almost definitely meant to be explored for what it was- an abusive relationship. But DC wanted Nightwing in an event. It doesn't have any satisfactory end, Bruce (DC) calls Dick to fight in Gotham. He does. His story falls to the wayside for the bigger title. The worst thing that can happen to a DC character IMO is getting a Batman crossover. There was supposed to be an entire arc dedicated to what would happen to Dick in this abusive relationship. But we got 2 issues. And War Games. It pisses me off to absolutely no end. DC needed more mouths to kiss the ground that Batman walks on. They don't give a damn about the stories that exist outside their cash cow.
After all that, eventually Dick is back to his utterly depressing life. He joins the mob, finds a family, bad things happen to said family. (Mobbed Up, #107-111) He wants to protect the daughter, Sophia Tevis, and then Slade holds Sophia hostage to get Dick to teach his daughter Rose how to fight. He does, but he also teaches Rose how to question authority (aka her dad). Slade is not happy about that, and nukes Bludhaven. (Renegade, #112-117) See my earlier note about IRL reasons for dumbass plot points.
Nightwing 1996 has 2 annual issues (despite running for much longer than 2 years). The first annual is a fun murder mystery and i think a good look into how Dick handles relationships. He also reads as very aromantic/demiromantic who doesn't know it yet, but maybe that's just me, lol. the second annual is dog shit. Mark Andreyko can get bent, it sucked total ass and isn't worth reading.
