#sh lilith

[ketzwrites]

"unpopular" or just random thought: making Lilith an abusive uncomplicated evil figure who doesn't understand love and is obsessed with childbearing is kind of meh in an era where Lilith is now often read as a feminist symbol

I agree to an extent. I think there is a way to put a spin on Lilith while using her new “feminist icon” image. Because while the legend of Lilith has been revisited by modern-thinking audiences and given a new meaning, Lilith on Shadowhunters is very much a demon. A greater demon, with personality and goals, but a demon still. I wouldn’t have changed that.

In any case, I still agree that Lilith wasn’t given the nuance she could’ve had. I don’t mind exploring how her misogynist curse (inability to conceive) destroyed her psyche after all these years. It’s an interesting concept, considering she is known as Mother of All Demons. 

But I would’ve been interested in seeing the female characters challenge Lilith’s feminist-dressed agenda. In 3A, Lilith talked a big game about not kneeling to a man, how a man ruined her, and all that jazz. Only, she didn’t mind hurting women - or sexually abusing men. I wish Clary or Izzy or Maia had called her out on that. Clary, especially, since Lilith put the Twinning Rune on her without her consent. 

Another thing that could’ve been done is contrasting Lilith with Maryse, as both are mother figures. Even bring on Jia, talk a little bit more about Jocelyn. If we’re going to explore motherhood, make it a theme of the season. Contrast the different mother figures on the show. 

And, for the love of god, don’t make Lilith pass on curses by kissing her victims. She is literally the only female demon we’ve had. No need to sexualize her evilness when no male demon has been seen smooching their victims into submission. 

[redwolfgirl]

@folksvfx: You've seen her this week on @shadowhunters , now here's your chance to take an up-close look at the mother of all demons. #VFX #ShadowhuntersSeason3  #3DModeling

[ketzwrites]

lilith isn't in edom. she escaped when they summoned her

Lilith literally said “Lift that sword and come to Edom with me. I need your Mark to protect me from Jonathan. Do me this one favor I'll bring your brother Abel back to life."

She’s in Edom.

[ketzwrites]

I don't understand the lore in this show. Lilith was human and she became a demon but why is she more stronger than Asmodeus ? Asmodeus wasn't human, he was an angel. Maybe the fall made him more weaker ? It's the only theory I have. It doesn't make sense that Lilith is more older than Asmodeus because of he angel lore.

I believe Lilith is the strongest demon because she is the first demon in the Shadowhunters’ lore. She’s the Mother of All Demons, after all.

I don’t think it matters what they were before becoming demons or who was created first. For example, we know the Seelie Queen was there when Lilith was still human but Lilith is stronger than her now. I think we just have to accept that, when it comes to Shadowhunters, that’s how things are. 

Avoid the headache, nonny. If they offer an explanation - even a silly explanation -, it’s better to just take it. Like Magnus saying his real state agent has been dead for decades and that being why he has no choice but to move in with Alec. I think it’s a terrible explanation, but that’s my problem. We can huff all we want, it won’t change canon.  

[ketzwrites]

Lilith fears Asmodeus... even Magus as a warlock he was able to banish his father. But Lilith... it's weird because Asmodeus was "happy" when Lilith left Edom. I'm confused. I agree to say Lilith is more stronger than Azazel.

Anonymous said: lilith didn't want to hurt magnus because she was scare by asmodeus and azazel didn't care and hurts magnus ? so in this demon contest it's 1) asmodeus 2) azazel 3) lilith i believe the mark of cain can banish every demons not only lilith.

Think feudalism, nonnies. Edom is the kingdom. Lilith is the monarch. Asmodeus is a vassal lord. So is Azazel. It’s better for Asmodeus when Lilith is not in Edom bossing him around, but he’s still subservient to her. That’s why he was happy when Lilith was on Earth: he doesn’t have to answer to anyone while she’s gone. 

For Lilith, it’s better when Asmodeus is not causing trouble. That’s why she didn’t kill his favorite child. She doesn’t fear Asmodeus, she fears the effort and destruction that a war against him would entail. Even if she is stronger than him, that doesn’t make Asmodeus weak. If she can avoid a direct conflict, she will. 

As for Azazel: he is not stronger than neither Lilith nor Asmodeus. But his goal was to take the Mortal Cup, which would make him able to control demons. If you can control demons - Asmodeus included -, you can anger them and it makes no difference. Besides, Azazel kills and hurts for sport. He doesn’t seem the type to think his actions through like Lilith does.

In any case, according to the show canon, the order of power is: Lilith > Asmodeus > Azazel. We know that because we are told so by a character known to be an exposition vessel: Magnus.

Magnus: Asmodeus isn’t just a greater demon. He’s the most powerful Prince of Hell.

(...)

Magnus: Whoever did this is definitely from Edom. But, judging by the energy signature, it’s not my father. 

Alec: That’s a good thing, right?

Magnus: I’m afraid not. This magic is very old and very evil. The demon responsible is as powerful as they come. Not like anything I’ve seen before.

Alec: So, worse than Asmodeus?

Magnus: Much worse.

302: The Powers that Be

That doesn't leave much room for interpretation. 

[ketzwrites]

my biggest issue is when clary brought back valentine from death. it makes lilith looks ridiculous. i'm sorry but she doesn't have an "evil" plan, she just wants to bring back jonathan. lol clary did it with valentine in 3 minuts. at last the actress was good.

I disagree that the Ressurection Rune makes Lilith’s plan ridiculous. Mostly because Lilith - a demon - wouldn’t be able to dwell with Angelic Runes. Why should she care about a method she can’t use? Also, Clary didn’t bring Valentine back to life. She turned him into an undead, a corpse with conscience. That’s not what Lilith wanted to do with Jonathan. 

In the show, there are a few ways to cheat death. Necromancy, Demonic Rituals, the Ressurection Rune, the Wish. Each of them has its pros and cons. But none makes the other superfluous; much like a sword doesn’t make a bow and arrow superfluous in a fight just because both weapons kill.

Lilith was never supposed to be the type of villain that wants to take over the world or has an evil plan that puts the world in danger. She couldn’t care less about the world or the mundanes, shadowhunters, and downworlders. She wanted her son back. And she accomplished it. That makes her more effective that even Clary (who did not save Jace and did not keep Jonathan dead).

[ketzwrites]

Thoughts on Lilith in 3A?

Mostly those. But also, I have a love and hate relationship with how the character was written. Anna Hopkins did an amazing job with what she was given, even if most of it was exposition. Sometimes it was good exposition, like when Lilith talked to Jim about her husband while she watched the newborns, or when Lilith confronted the Seelie Queen. But some was terrible. I still don’t get why Lilith would be spilling out her backstory to the Owl, but I guess the audience needed to know it and that was better than her talking to herself.

I also loathe the decision of making Lilith sexually assault Jace in order to possess him. We don’t see the Owl kissing his victims, so why would Lilith? Because she’s a female demon? That’s so fucked up and it made me drop my interest in the character immediately.

Though there were also really cool parts. Lilith’s “love” for Jonathan is compelling. Her calm and collected demeanor is very menacing. I adored the whole arc of her going to Magnus’s and tricking him into giving her the anti-love potion. When she simply showed up at his door and easily manipulated Magnus into letting her in? I got serious chills. 

I guess my biggest problem with Lilith is that it took too long for the heroes to find out she was there. That meant dragging out her scenes being Evil™. Whenever she was in a scene with a hero (not in her possession) she was absolutely great. Whenever it was just her or just her and the Owl, she was boring or disgusting in a bad way.

But I’m glad she’s going to be back and interacting with Magnus. I’m looking forward to that!

[ketzwrites]

i was watching that bts of harry and Anna dancing in edom and I suddenly wanted more of them. nothing would beat getting to know magnus actual mother, but imagine lilith as a good step mom. Magnus knows about asmodeus and all the wrongs that he's done so he plans prosecute him and have him thrown in prison. throughout all of that his only support is lilith, asmodeus new rich wife who wants to bring him down just as much as magnus does so they team up. not necessarily a promt, just a scenario

Would Lilith be a good stepmother, though? She was a shitty mother to Jonathan and she literally gave her blood to get him. I don’t want to know what she’d do to Magnus.

What I can see happening is Magnus and Lilith joining forces in a “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” sort of way. And that would honestly be a shot on the foot from Magnus’ part. Lilith is worse than Asmodeus or, at least, that is what the show wants us to believe.

That all said, I’m here for a fic where Magnus joins forces with Lilith to bring Asmodeus down, then realizes what huge mistake that was, and has to bring Lilith down next. In black and white, mafia style.