#soul discourse

[kyliafanfiction]

Admittedly, the AtS show’s constant jokes about Angel being unable to have sex doesn’t really help keep it clear, but the reasonable inference from the “perfect happiness” is that it’s about the unconditional love and acceptance Buffy was giving him, not just sex.

[drusillathekiller]

Vampire/Council Meta Ramble

Sorry, I had Thoughts and then this happened so. 

Do you ever think about how Giles’s explanation for vampires was nonsense? Soul out, demon in to fill the gap to give the body a few extra powers, sure. But “Has nothing in common with who they were before,” to quote one instance, is just… wrong, time and time again.

Every vampire was driven by who they were before. Vamp-Willow was terrifyingly familiar, Angel and Spike had the same drives, Dru kept a lot in common…

But it also makes sense for him to be wrong; he’s a Watcher, he got his info from the Council, and they want teenage girls to regularly slaughter formerly human sentient creatures. And on top of that, they’ve been shown to be questionable. Of course they’d lie, and give a more palatable truth. Vampires are inhuman, irredeemable monsters, they’re nothing like who they once were, feel no guilt, don’t hesitate… 

And the scary thing is that if they lie about something as basic as the nature of a Vampire Slayer’s primary enemy, how much do we actually know and how much is little more than propaganda? 

I mean, take for example how soulless vampires are described. Remorseless killing machines, little more than rabid animals, no thought and no care… Which is just wrong. Spike and Dru, for example, were in love; conventional logic dictates that should be impossible. There was a vampire incinerated by the Judge, which targeted humanity. There was Spike’s attempt at redemption, Harmony being about as callous as her human self but still not exactly being a serial killer, that random guy that wanted to psychoanalyse Buffy in S7…  Pretty much every single vampire we see in the series has some kind of humanity. They’ve got hunger too, the constant thirst for blood which might well desensitise them to needing to kill or distract them from morality until it’s too late, so they are absolutely going to be crueller than your average person even without touching the concept of losing a soul (especially the older ones), but beyond that? 

We see plenty of sadists and murderers, sure. But we also see plenty of dorks and lovers and a whole wealth of humanity. 

With how many vampires feel the need to feed and kill, with how many fall into gangs and basically cults lead by ancient and bloodthirsty individuals, and how the Watcher’s Council are known to lie in order to make a Slayer easier to point at a target, how much do we actually know about any vampiric predisposition to evil? 

The loss of a soul might make it easier, but with all the other factors, and what we actually see of vampires, it’s hard to believe the picture the Council paints is accurate. 

(In reference to this post).

Another amazing submission from an anon who has been sending me extremely thoughtful and well written essays for over two years. Always using the handle ‘[email protected]’, they’ve sent me an essay arguing that Drusilla was the Big Good of the Buffyverse all along, and a delightful thesis on why Jasmine might be connected to Glory. Whoever you are dearest anon, I love everything you send me and your messages have brightened my days for a long time.

[kyliafanfiction]

After reading ICC and seeing how you gave Drusilla a soul, I was curious about something. Hypothetically, how do you think Harmony might gone if she had ended up with a soul at some point?

More or less as she did in canon, but less evil? I mean, Harmony no doubt killed people, but she sucked really bad at being evil and probably didn’t work hard at it after Disharmony.

One of my many theories around the nature of a soul for a vampire - since humans with souls can be evil (how many times have I seen characters bring up Hitler in this discussion in fic? A lot.  Which is of course, why I did it, because people IRL use Hitler as a benchmark for evil all the time, so of course these characters would) is that the more evil the vampire, the more the guilt of the soul compels them to do good. Angelus and Spike were among the most brutal of vampires in the world, so of course they rebound, ultimately, by doing good once ensouled. (Angel’s hundred-odd years of moping around doing nothing does shoot a hole in my theory, but like I said, it’s just one of my theories and the whole doesn’t *destroy* the theory, IMO).

So if you ensouled a just turned vampire that’s killed no one? You’d have a more or less normal person with a craving for blood. So they’d probably not kill, at least not intentionally, and if they did, they’d handle it emotionally and intellectually the way a human would, more or less. Maybe.

So for Harmony? She’d deal with some guilt, but she seems very good at ignoring unpleasant emotions or details, so I think in the end she’d probably be more or less the same, just less evil. She wouldn’t betray Angel at the end, but given that her betrayal was part of Angel’s plan, it kind of worked out.

That’s my theory anyway.

[kyliafanfiction]

So if the guilt of their wrongdoings is at least part of what turns a souled vampire good, what happens if you ensoul a freshly turned vamp, before they commit any sins? Like, say someone hit Jesse with a soul right after he rose, would you just have Jesse with vamp powers (and maybe some PTSD from being murdered)? Or would the vampire demon still influence the personality and change him even if his soul keeps him from killing?

I previously discussed this here, actually Well, I mean, it's just one theory, but under this theory of vampiric ensoulment and so on, they'd probably just end up being just a regular guy. But with a thirst for blood. But assuming Jesse realized he could just eat animal blood, he'd probably do that. It's really hard to say because we don't know much about his personality. For all we know, Jesse was a lot more messed up under the hood and could have ended up some stalker serial killer type eventually.

But probably he'd just be himself, whatever that was.

[drusillathekiller]

Interesting note: when Angel has a soul Drusilla still called him Angelus on occasion. Similarly, when he loses his soul and becomes 'Angelus', Drusilla then refers to him as Angel.

Make of that what you will.