#souls shit

[ultramothermother]

[skelayton-lord]

??? Jfc I never realized the one fucking dragging the corpse (most likely you, the player) is the fukin Soul of Cinder, instead of some random knight.

They literally shows up in the opening cutscene and I was just fukin sleeping the whole time.

Does that mean some sort of time fuckery where the Soul themselves put you in that coffin? So you’re awakened again on the next cycle? Hmm.

Also the “crown”/tiara the Firekeeper wears over her eyes just seems to have an image of the whirling pool/vortex from Souls 2 on the inside. Still not sure the exact meaning of this, whether it’s to cloud her vision, or just contains the Truth and so she becomes able to see it once she gets the eyes, or it carries some relation to beckoning the unkindled to the Shrine where she is (similar to how the vortex would draw undead into it and so they’d end up in Things Betwixt).

Edit: Oh yeah and the Soul is later in the same position as the player gets to receive the blessings/powers of the lords, even the cinders falling on their head is similar. Maybe the Soul takes the physical form of the previous undead/unkindled? Hmm...

[skelayton-lord]

Yo Lay buddy, what do you think about Havel just chillin up on Arch Dragon Peak or Tarkus going by the name of Knightslayer Tsorig?

Havel had many followers and they all wore his armor  like an uniform, the new description of his armor (and even his ring, which I thought was unique to him and the only way to tell between Follower and Havel) suggests his followers were all like him from ideals down to the bits of armor, so I think that one havel is just one of his followers, like (possibly) Ancient Knight Varg from the gank squad if he wasnt just a graverobber  but given his “ancient” title it could be possible. The only way to tell that dude would be Havel, would be if he had the name over his head, but just the HP bar shows up when you lock on. As for the weapons, they always seem to be taken and storaged somewhere weird, or taken by dragons (unless the one in souls 2 was more like a fresh dragon tooth and not the original). I believe the only actual Havel so far was the one locked in the cell just because of the description of the Watchtower Key and the fact that so many havel NPCs are always carrying around his supposedly unique weapons (when there was an “extra” in the chests in Anor Londo in souls 1) makes me believe he had extras (maybe like another or 2) and left them behind (or got taken from him by silver knights or any other under the orders of Gwyn/Gwyndolin) for Followers to take his place when he was gone/dead.

As for Tsorig, he’s the invader that makes the least sense because he doesnt just bear Tarkus’ armor but also the FUGS, altho at this point, given Lothric’s whole “place where things converge” and “time is convoluted” when it comes to explain how phantoms and invaders are supposed to interact with one another and hosts, I am completely leaving invasion-only characters off to the side as I dont think they belong to that timeline the player is in at all, as well as unique items such as armor obtained via the crows which references characters that are supposed to have been “from the future”, crows are fucking time travelers and also make the least sense (take Souls 2 for example, casually gives you a demon’s great hammer or a channeller’s trident for getting that sick silky smooth shit, also how they were only obtainable through them; I’m just putting this here in case anyone asks me about Lucatiel’s vague mention through her hat/mask, which is only obtainable through the crows).

The set now says Tsorig was infamous for it, but given he has the FUGS (and the descrip of the FUGS mentions Raime as someone from “long ago”) and how there have been at least 5 fire linkings (counting the number of Lords of Cinder/the thrones in Firelink) then it means there have been at least 5 thousand years between the events of Souls 1 and 3, and in the mean time, Tsorig could have gotten most of Tarkus’ stuff except for the very standard greatsword and used it often and became the new face of the armor. But again, I believe he’s just a nerd using the armor, his title could also mean he just takes shit from whatever knights he slains.

Even Solaire’s armor (obtainable through crows altho since souls 3 is def afterwards souls 1, it’s possible they simply scavanged it from somewhere far off) says it was from a knight of a past age. It’s been long enough time for the NPCs name to fade, but not their ideals/deeds, such as Lautrec’s name not being mentioned but he was still known as The Embraced and how peculiar he was for his love for Fina. Tsorig doesnt share the tale of a Berenike knight who traveled to possibly take on the gods, or in some other sort of mission (hell, if From rly wanted to make refs about everything, could’ve even added Tarkus’ infamous badassery of taking giant iron golems himself) and how well known he was for his strength, he was just a dude who killed other knights and ppl feared him. Besides, even his ring is originally from the guardians of Eleum Loyce and the new descrip suggests he fought them.

Now, that might also be a reference to how Tarkus, initially, looked like he was gonna be one mean invader if judged by his souls 1 concept art where the inside of his helm glows red, maybe he was supposed to be a bad guy, but in the end he was the complete opposite.

Some may suggest Tsorig is then proof Souls 3 happens after Souls 2, but there are so many stronger points to a less passage of time between Souls 1 and 3 than how it is between Souls 1 and 2 that really, all I can say to explain how Tsorig’s stuff refers to Souls 2 beings in the past tense, is because it’s past in his time. It wouldnt make any sense for Souls 2′s characters’ names be forgotten but the old Lords from Lordran times to still be so fresh in memory. Hell, even Velka’s statue is there and well, something we never rly got in Souls 1 and I was even surprised to see pardoners in Souls 2.

As a side point, we also dont know how long it’s been since the DLC areas had fallen, we just warp there and everything is already in ruins. It’s possible that those kingdoms might have happened in a time co-existent to Souls 3 and Tsorig just conquered both Eleum Loyce and the Iron Keep/Brume Tower way earlier than the Bearer of the Curse did.

TL;DR: That Havel is most likely just a Follower of Havel’s and not Havel himself. Tsorig must have invaded from the Souls 2′s timeline, or the kingdoms of the Ivory and Iron King have already fallen and he just pillaged stuff way before Drangleic’s time since we arent sure of when exactly those kingdoms existed, we already explore the areas fallen in ruins.

[skelayton-lord]

        The following is an attempt at giving sense to the beast transformations in BB. Ever since getting such weird blood transfusion (and then following injections of blood to heal, with no matter which blood type ppl are [seriously you and your pal can share and exchange blood vials like juice boxes]) is so tied to the plague of beasts and I have always been a sucker for science stuff being applied into seemingly supernatural things.

      The transformation is triggered by a high concentration of “Yharnam blood” (Old Blood/Ashen Blood and even the Good Blood, when used without caution and it becomes addictive) and presence of certain hormones, mostly the ones related to stress (Cortisol, adrenaline, norepinephrine) but it can also be triggered by a high level of dopamine, since the blood is an addicting substance and can grant pleasure much how drugs do. When the concentration of said blood meets the concentration of said hormones, a cascade of events begins and the brain is forced to send signals all over the body to “adjust” it and lessen the internal damage caused by such reaction. Thus, people who have been doing heavy use of blood will eventually turn into a beast, either during a stressful/fight or flight situation or when experiencing pleasure of any kind.                 Each person’s transformation might be different or alike depending on the quantity of blood used, its “purity” and biotype. Some end up with long limbs, others are more robust, but the first signs of the transformation are usually the same, often including chest pain with palpitations and a strong headache.         Church hunters are the most likely to turn into beasts since they both have easier access to those types of blood AND are constantly under stressful situations.         The hunting practice requires fully awareness and the hunters’ eye pupils are frequently dilating and contracting. Such natural reflex, along rising levels of said blood in the body, sooner or later results in rupture of the iris, giving the “collapsed pupil” look and, due that, these hunters become light-sensitive and they might blindfold themselves and/or be more active at night.         Yellow eyes might also be present with or without the collapsed pupil, since the usage of blood can be a form of blood intoxication.

[skelayton-lord]

Alright, will do when I'm home, on another note, Alfred is a nerd, and I'm curious what he'd look like as a beast, considering the executioners are part of the church, and members of the church become the worst beasts, but he's still not a cleric

Y  E A H. I mean, I had my silly theory/thought of “What if Executioners were werewolves?”, because their attire is extremely oversized, with the cord by the hood/chest that seems to be able to adjust the size, the boots have button-clips that seem to facilitate the removal and the gloves with those many “leather rings” seem easy to take off too, by pushing the very first “ring” of the arm down to the wrist, pushing the others as it comes down and then removing the glove.

What do you think classify oneself as a cleric? To me, simply serving the church faithfully already makes it one.

Alfred uses lead elixir and later on the wheel. Regardless if he stole it or not, he knows how these things work. Study/research in bloodborne is tied to the Arcane stat and I believe he has high arcane knowledge (maybe not as high as Micolash ofc, but still p high), such arcane meddlings is tied to the church, so I’d consider him a cleric.

But anyway, I have beast!Alfie things/ideas in the works. Even though I consider him a cleric, my idea of beast!Alfie isnt that of a very malformed beast, much to the contrary, for the most part.

My interpretation of beasts is that they’re “the monster within”, how disfigured they might be, however, wouldnt be tied to their character but to how much blood the person has been meddling with. It ranges from the classic wolfman look to modern werewolves to complete fuck ups. The reason clerics would end up so disfigured is due high blood usage, the way I see it. Besides eventually getting a “rush” for the hunting. "He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster.“ is something that I clearly see being played out in the whole beast hunting, for both common hunters and clergy.

So my main idea for beast design is “the beast within” + “blood usage” formula.

And so from that, my image of a beast!Alfie is that of a beast as big as Abhorrent, but with a nice golden coat. A nice golden coat sure is unusual among the seemingly greasy, gross grey-ish/dark fur of most beasts, but he’s blond and I usually tie fur color with the human’s hair color (Amelia seems to have white hair and she came up as a white-furry beast; Gascan’s white/greyish hair gives off in his faint hairy/sorta furry forearms when he transforms, so I’m sticking with it).

His theme is that of a different, seemingly beautiful creature when looking at him from his back, but his face shows his hidden violent nature. He has a medium snout because of his long nose yet square-ish jaw, an underbite to add on the angry/violent look. I’ll base his design on bears, a bit of gorilla and some dogs like bulldogs. He’s a bruttish beast who hides his face with his giant hood and even though he does have the angry look and can have violent outbursts, he can be nice. Mostly to other Executioners/Logarius and some hunters. He’d be able to smell whether someone is a Vile or not and basically his angry animal nature unleashes towards them.

[skelayton-lord]

BB DLC spoiler under the cut, lore speculation.

I actually rly rly like Woolie’s (from super/two best friends play) theory on Laurence?? When he was playing the DLC and came up to him, he wasnt like “Oh so you’re Laurence? Ok.” but rather he quickly thinks “Oh yeah, right, this is a nightmare, this might be just an image of Laurence.”

He still believes the headless blood-letting is most likely to be the “real” Laurence not only because of how nightmares seem to work, but he also mentions how the original japanese name of the blood-letting is something along the lines of “the origin of blood“ beast and then he talks about the whole story of Laurence eventually going to a labyrinth, not returning, and some hunters/scholars going to check/save him but in the end they just return with blood that would mark the healing church’s blood ministration.

Honestly, this sparked my eyes, mostly because I often forget/overlook dreams/nightmares as 100% “real”. In order to show how this theory is very convincing to me, I’ll break it down as: dreams/nightmares -> the Hunter’s Nightmare -> Laurence, the First Vicar boss fight.

The dreams/nightmares

Important facts about nightmares (and dreams):

There will always be a Great One that rules over it.

There will often be a host.

They’re real places that exist either in another dimension/realm or are really just high up in the sky.

Now, the host is an important element, because the presence of a host might change the nightmare’s view into something that the host is familiar with (compare Frontier, a seemingly hostless place, to the Hunter’s Dream, Nightmare and Nightmare of Mensis). This can range from scenery to enemies. What makes me think so about this is Micolash saying “The nightmare swirls and churns unending”, I took that as a hint that the nightmares change forms everytime and that he knows how to bend/use it to his advantage (see: him going through mirrors while the hunter cannot, he can disappear out of thin air when the hunter takes him down the first time, his voice just magically echoes through the whole place).

Now we take how the Hunter’s Dream looks like, the Nightmare of Mensis and the Hunter’s Nightmare. We can say that the 3 mirror things their possible hosts are familiar with. HD’s host is Gehrman and it’s a perfect copy of the abandoned workshop; NoM is akin to a mad scientist’s place with the cages and monstrosities (dog-crows/crow-dogs as the biggest example) and HN mimics the vision of a hunter who ranks high in the church (due the presence of the Research Hall, low-rank hunters couldnt be aware of such thing and, even though many could say Gehrman is akin to also be or have been its host, I believe Maria is the actual host here, which I’ll break down later).

The Frontier seems to be hostless - or Patches could be the host but regarding his physical appearance (and how there are more of his type in Mensis, called nightmare apostles) I believe he’s from the realm of nightmares and therefore he’s familiar with the natural look of said places -which makes me believe the Frontier shows how nightmares truly are. Places where rocks bleed or seem organic, it shows its inhabitants (rock-throwing trolls, the apostles possibly, besides the Great Ones), a place that just floats up in the sky like magical floating islands (look out some cliffs and you might see other “islands” that float up in the air, looking down sometimes you can see ships’ masts). So the Frontier, possibly due being that, a frontier, has a “neutral” look and shows how nightmares truly are when the human influence is little to none.

Not saying that nightmares can be “customized” by their hosts everytime, at will, no, it’s more like the nightmares change themselves according to the hosts’ memories, conscious (Mensis/Micolash) or not (repressed memories; Maria, in part). How far it can change might depend on the Great One watching over it.

With that down, now we take on the Hunter’s Nightmare.

The Hunter’s Nightmare is possibly the hardest place to figure out what is “real” and what is not, for that I mean which beings are real people (or used to be) and which are created by the nightmare based on memories.

Firstly, the HN isnt exactly like hell, a place you go when you die a sinner, rather, you must be blood-drunk (have collapsed pupil eyes, yours or not) and end up getting grabbed by an Amygdala, you dont die.

To better understand its elements, we must pin point its host.

Since the beginning of the nightmare is so influenced by the old hunting days, it must be an old hunter. Gehrman comes to mind since he could have had both a Dream and a Nightmare, while his psych might be tied/have some influence on certain elements, I dont think his play in this realm is as deep as that of an actual host (also due the lack of evidence for someone being the host of 2 or more nightmares/dreams, maybe one could have been a host to one, left it, and became the host of a new one, but I dont think it’s that easy to switch through Great Ones’ “bonds/allegiance/inprisonment”).

As the hunter proceeds, they get deeper and deeper into the church’s nasty stuff, something that only a hunter allied to the high-ranks of the church and deeply involved should know, in order for the nightmare to take said form in such detail. It boils down to Maria.

Her real self is dead, but her conscience lives on in the Nightmare much like Micolash’s case. What makes me believe she’s the host are the eerie little elements like the corpse pile, something that screams what is wrong with beast hunting and wouldnt be there if the nightmare “belonged” to Gehrman who seems to have some pride and nostalgia of the old days. The patients often calling to her is another sign that the nightmare has some elements akin to repressed memories and things that haunt her. So now we can say that the nightmare not only carries her memories, but also her vision of things.

And now, finally, Laurence.

Gehrman and Maria knew him, but does Gehrman know Laurence has been gone for a long time? He calls him when he’s dreaming as if Laurence was still out there alive, could have Gehrman been trapped in the Hunter’s Dream since shortly his workshop was replaced by Ludwig’s? Because if that’s so, then he might have been unaware of things that now only Maria is aware of. Regardless, it all seems that the 2 had different opinions/visions of Laurence.

Laurence in the nightmare is a flaming, lava-bloodied cleric beast. Just the fact that he bleeds lava and can still crawl around with a bleeding torso instead of dying is something only a nightmare (or wicked, forgotten magic from the Keepers, see Watchdog) can make of. The hunter must trigger him by having his (whole, complete, not lacking any pieces) human skull with them, when his beast self has a whole head of its own.

Some people say he’s on fire as a way to symbolize his guilt over Old Yharnam’s fate. If you take this and pretty much everything around him (such as his skull, how he tries to remember himself) this Laurence is a metaphor, and a possible vision of his character in Maria’s eyes.

A man who became a beast, someone who lost their head to the scourge, and is attoning for his sins, possibly set on fire by his allies, a fate every beast has at the hands of hunters. That’s what Maria sees and that’s how it plays out in the nightmare.

It’s possible that she has never seen what was left of him from the labyrinth besides his skull and all she knows was that “he became the first cleric beast”.

The real people in the nightmare so far seems to be Maria (’s consciousness, see Mico), Brador, Simon, Ludwig (whom could have ended up there due being blood-drunk himself) and Yamamura. Adeline is questionable, but so far I think she’s a product as well, just Maria’s psyche showing her story.

TL;DR: The flaming cleric beast Laurence is just a product of the nightmare + its host’s (Maria) influence, since nightmares take the shape of things off their hosts’ psyche (as evidenced by Micolash), and the real Laurence could still be the headless blood-letting also since the original japanese name for it had to do with the “origin of the blood” beast, and the doings of the church (actual medical development) started with this beast’s blood.

[skelayton-lord]

I could have gone a bit deeper in that reblog about how the enemies weaknesses usually work (Hunters/humans (fire) beats (dark)beasts (Bolt) which beats Great Ones (Arcane) which beats Hunters/humans (fire) ) and how Great Ones are tied to the oceans/waters/lakes and we have the windy/thunderstorms as possible beasts, and we have the fact that thunderstorms wreck/”anger”/move oceans, but I’d have gone past the point of the post.

I’m just theory-lore trash.

[skelayton-lord]

Here’s the Ravelord bringing whatever lore speculation she got from the trailer (as prompted by Dusk).

That looked like the giant lord, but it shows a dude grabbing the crown first Its either the giant lord, or the undead turned into it, like how Vendrick tried to turn into one but it wasnt perfect. Crowns hold powers of rulers, maybe wearing the giant lord's lost crown, you can turn into it.

Then the said giant lord seems to be getting on fire, it looks like the same way the chosen undead in dks1 looks when they link the fire  So seems like giants were capable of linking the fire  But if giants are capable of doing it...??? Then they shouldnt be different from undeads.

It'd explain how fires have been linked until the time of dks 2, giants could have been some sorta guardians of the age of fire, making sure the age of dark never comes.

But the seed of a tree of a giant's descr. mentions them being something "outside the cycle", the same could be applied to dragons (they're immortal with their scales), so giants, while not immortal, they're different from undead and dont belong in the life-death  cycle, maybe because they turn into trees after death?? Idk.  But it confirms them being different from undeads, and so, it shouldnt be possible for them to link the fire.  The magical flames need the cursed flesh to be alive. Gwyn was an exception because he was the one who started it, so he could have done something for the flames later on accept only undead, because undead are enemies of the gods since they're related to Manus (and so do all humans, but normal humans lack the properties of the undead curse)  Also, Gwyn "came back to life" once the flames started to fade, tho he was a hollowed Gwyn.