Better Get Your Clown Makeup Ready
Had to make a new post, cause this isn’t gonna fit in the comments lmao. Didn’t think I forgot about you, did you? @kingfawx
This is gonna be a long one lol
So, to preface my response: It’s incredibly hypocritical of you to say that the APA and the DSM is an unreliable source, and then turn around and use a bunch of research that sources the APA and DSM. What exactly is your logic here? “The APA is bad and wrong, except about the stuff they agree with me on”? That’s not how this works. So, a lot of your sources already aren’t in your favor. If the APA is unreliable, that makes any research that uses the APA unreliable. So you’re either willingly using the research you believe to be unreliable just because it might agree with you; OR, you don’t really think the APA is an unreliable source. But, you can’t have it both ways.
Before I get into your sources, I’m gonna address what you said first:
>And as I stated countless times, "nondysphoric" people who've transitioned have dysphoria that they didn't acknowledge,
Do you have a source on that? Cause I didn’t see it in your masterpost lmao. There’s little research on non-dysphorics, and you are in no way qualified to diagnose dysphoria in people over the internet, so there’s no way you can prove that non-dysphorics who successfully transition have “hidden dysphoria”. You either don’t understand what dysphoria is, or you’re talking out of your ass.
>APA also says GNC people are trans and that being gay was a mental disorder as well
No, actually, the APA says that there are GNC people who are trans, and specifically notes that being GNC-alone does not mean someone is trans lmao. And, although they did do that, they don’t anymore. But it’s funny that you’re concerned with labelling natural human-variation as a disorder when it comes to gay people, but you’re fine when it’s done to trans people.
>also WHO has stated that gender incongruence and gender dysphoria are the same thing
The WHO defines gender incongruence as a disconnect between one’s sex and gender; and Gender Dysphoria as a medical condition involving significant amounts of distress caused by a gender incongruence. What mental gymnastics are you doing to decide that those are the same definitions? How can Gender Incongruence be the cause of itself? Just in case you want to argue, the WHO is on-record stating that GI and GD are different: https://www.wma.net/policies-post/wma-statement-on-transgender-people/
Anyways, on to your sources. Wanna know something funny? Your sources are outdated. Luckily for me, I’ve already gone through all of your sources here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vHZfZ44_7WDE2H_YIjaYTF3KeOJUFNetHOy8fH0nKdE/edit#gid=917815876
Feel free to scroll through that sheet I lovingly crafted. Definitely check out the highlighted boxes, which points out the sources that directly disagree with you. Especially the one thats explicitly about gender incongruence, and how even the non-dysphoric ones have brains that match their desired gender.
The issue with all of your sources is that none of them compare non-dysphorics to dysphorics. And yes, because every major medical organization acknowledges that non-dysphorics exist, simply comparing cis people to trans people doesn’t prove anything about dysphoria. Because that comparison only works if cis people can’t get dysphoria, and the WPATH acknowledges that cis people can and do get dysphoria (i.e. a woman dysphoric about being a woman, but also just as dysphoric about being a man). Sooo, what? You’re gonna say that WPATH is wrong too?
In fact, here’s a real source using brain sex that specifically brings up that Gender Incongruence is not inherently distressing, therefore Gender Dysphoria is not inherent to trans people. https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/27/2/998/3056235
And here’s an excerpt from WPATH explaining why not all trans people have dysphoria:
“Some people experience gender dysphoria at such a level that the distress meets criteria for a formal diagnosis that might be classified as a mental disorder… A disorder is a description of something with which a person might struggle, not a description of the person or the person’s identity. Thus, transsexual, transgender, and gender-nonconforming individuals are not inherently disordered. Rather, the distress of gender dysphoria, when present, is the concern that might be diagnosable and for which various treatment options are available.”
And if you clink that link, you can read through the whole thing and see the part about how cis people can get dysphoria.
What you don’t seem to understand is that Gender Dysphoria does not refer to “general discomfort”, it refers to a specific medical condition.
So unless you, A) Have a source that comes to the conclusion that Gender Incongruence is inherently distressing or B) a source that explicitly says that non-dysphoric trans people either don’t exist or don’t have brains that match their desired sex—you have no proof and you are objectively wrong. The conclusions you make after reading a source is not proof. That is still your opinion. The conclusion the research makes needs to support you to be valid proof for the statements you’re making.
And a final hint: If two words have two separate definitions, even if they might be related, they are still two separate things. Gender Incongruence and Gender Dysphoria are different in the exact way being sad and Depression are different. One is a symptom. The other is a medical condition.
Christ.
