(4:44:44 PM) Kai: so! you've had ~real things published~ and all that and abby and i have been reading up on how to get stuff published all that and are pretty confused about the whole agent thing. i was wondering if maybe you could just explain it to me since you know the industry and all that?
(4:45:13 PM) V Arrow: Sure! Lucy and I are actually submitting to agents right now, too, haha.
(4:45:52 PM) V Arrow: Agents function as your lawyer and manager, essentially, and also sometimes your primary editor, depending on your agent.
(4:45:52 PM) V Arrow: They design your contracts to best serve your individual interests as a writer, or writing duo, in your case.
(4:46:16 PM) V Arrow: You cannot get published by the Big Four without an agent.
(4:46:16 PM) V Arrow: They do not take submissions from authors without them.
(4:46:48 PM) V Arrow: That's one of the main reasons that some people elect to self-publish, because they don't want to go through the process of getting an agent, paying agent commission, or the idea of "gatekeepers," what have you.
(4:47:00 PM) Kai: okay, makes sense
(4:47:32 PM) Kai: i know you said once that you would rather go through an agent / publishing house rather than self-publish yeah? i've been reading arguments from both sides.
(4:47:39 PM) V Arrow: I would, yes.
(4:48:31 PM) V Arrow: I think that unless you already have an enormous reader base and a LOT of money to publicize on your own, there is a much bigger margin for loss in self-publishing. Plus, I just feel like if you have the faith that your work is good enough to be published, then you should have faith that people who actually publish real things would also believe that.
(4:48:56 PM) V Arrow: The biggest booksellers in America (physical store-wise, anyway) generally do not stock self-published books.
(4:49:00 PM) Kai: that's kind of what we were thinking xD
(4:49:23 PM) V Arrow: And it's a lot harder to market through indie stores when you're self-pub, too, unless you work with a large distributor (which Amazon doesn't unless you pay a big fee per book).
(4:49:38 PM) V Arrow: That said: agents don't GUARANTEE the Big Four.
(4:50:03 PM) V Arrow: Nor do they guarantee that your book will be picked up by /anyone/, which is what happened to me in 2009.
(4:50:23 PM) V Arrow: Whichhhh is why I didn't write anything else original for like four years, but that's another story.
(4:50:39 PM) Kai: what happens when your book doesn't get picked up by anyone? are there still fees and stuff attached then to the agent?
(4:50:51 PM) V Arrow: No. You should never have to pay an agent anything from pocket.
(4:51:01 PM) V Arrow: If an agent asks for any money up front, then they are a scammer.
(4:51:26 PM) V Arrow: Agents are motivated to sell their clients' books with the best-paying deals and best publicity because their only payment comes from their commission.
(4:51:42 PM) V Arrow: It's a symbiotic system, which some self-pub advocates don't seem to understand.
(4:51:54 PM) V Arrow: That said, agents will be very very very picky and also are very very very driven by the market demands.
(4:52:10 PM) V Arrow: Right now, they mostly want John Green style contemp, BUT that doesn't mean that they WON'T take other things.
(4:52:17 PM) V Arrow: Like, that isn't what Lucy and I wrote, either.
(4:52:43 PM) Kai: if you don't mind me asking, what did you guys write? also, how are you going about looking for agents? like, who do you guys pick to submit to and why?
(4:52:50 PM) Kai: (sorry for all the questions, its fascinating)
(4:53:08 PM) V Arrow: We did a YA urban fantasy/horror kinda thing with no male speaking characters and no romance, so it's... a gamble.
(4:53:55 PM) Kai: THAT SOUNDS AWESOME cause we're doing a YA horror xD personally I love it.
(4:54:18 PM) Kai: it is romance-y though, and do have male characters, but most characters are POC
(4:54:20 PM) V Arrow: We're also submitting to agents that I know or have had positive contact with, and tbh, we're using some connections that I have because of The Panem Companion/Comic Con/etc. BUT those people are also just... the ones we'd be submitting to anyway. The agents that we're looking for are the ones who have an understanding of fandom and online culture, and that's who I tend to have had contact with in the past or have mutual friends with.
(4:54:58 PM) V Arrow: So the agents that have represented books you like? Look them up first. Because you probably like the same books for a reason. :-)
(4:55:11 PM) Kai: okay, great
(4:55:45 PM) V Arrow: I also, personally, would give any boutique agencies you're considering a double-check through AgentTracker and Predators+Editors, just to be suuuure.
(4:55:55 PM) Kai: boutique agencies?
(4:55:57 PM) V Arrow: Boutique agencies can be super great, though.
(4:56:06 PM) V Arrow: Smaller agencies than like, Curtis Brown and Writer's House.
(4:56:18 PM) V Arrow: Who are you considering?
(4:56:44 PM) Kai: honestly, totally not sure. we've just started this whole process because until like, December / January we didn't even think it was something we'd actually pursue xD
(4:56:56 PM) V Arrow: OK!
(4:57:16 PM) V Arrow: Well, if you had to compare your book to... hmm. Three existing YA books, what would they be?
(4:57:32 PM) Kai: let me text Abby real quick xD
(4:57:36 PM) V Arrow: OK!
(4:57:53 PM) V Arrow: Or TV shows, just tone-wise/whatev
(4:58:21 PM) Kai: Hmmm. -thinking-
(4:58:48 PM) Kai: and also waiting for her response xD she's better at this than I am
(4:58:52 PM) V Arrow: lol
(4:59:43 PM) Kai: A little in tone to Supernatural, The Shining (with a younger audience / characters)...
(5:00:02 PM) Kai: and.......?
(5:01:08 PM) Kai: the next thing I can think of is the House on Haunted Hill but that's old
(5:01:30 PM) V Arrow: Hmm
(5:01:40 PM) V Arrow: What books or authors do you generally admire then in YA?
(5:02:06 PM) Kai: I like Jennifer L Armentrout, she's who I've been reading a lot lately
(5:02:22 PM) Kai: Laini Taylor, Richelle Mead
(5:02:49 PM) V Arrow: okay
(5:03:18 PM) V Arrow: I think with the tone and influences, I would suggest maybe Barry Goldblatt as one to look into? He's kind of an asshole but if he picks you, he will be a guard dog and caretaker and get your shit sold.
(5:03:22 PM) V Arrow: And sold WELL.
(5:03:32 PM) V Arrow: But he's also kind of an asshole.
(5:03:41 PM) Kai: how so?
(5:04:32 PM) V Arrow: He's very... for someone whose job it is to introduce and debut and nurture emerging writers as well as represent his current clients, he's very dismissive of emerging writers as a gestalt. In my opinion, having dealt with him a few times. And he's very gruff and VERY New York Businessman in some ways. Kinda feels more old-school than he is.
(5:04:53 PM) V Arrow: BUT he understands fandom dynamics, for one thing, and it is RARE that his clients don't become bestsellers.
(5:05:05 PM) V Arrow: He also really digs creepy/dark/horror/leading lady books.
(5:05:12 PM) Kai: i like the sound of that
(5:05:28 PM) Kai: i'll have to read up on him
(5:05:35 PM) V Arrow: That said, he represents Cassandra Clare. BUT considering her success record, that isn't a bad thing *for an agent*
(5:05:47 PM) Kai: xD yeah my opinions on cassandra are the same as yours
(5:05:50 PM) V Arrow: lol
(5:06:25 PM) V Arrow: Ummm who else. Who wants horror right now. Umhmhmhmmhm. You might want to look at what people are asking for at Andrea Brown Literary?
(5:06:38 PM) V Arrow: You query just one of their agents, but they do all read and have the option to pick you up.
(5:07:23 PM) V Arrow: They're all stellar and sell well. ABLit was The Big Dog in YA a few years ago, but it's cooled off some now afaik. They still handle their client list really well, though, and have big names and big creative types in their roster.
(5:07:38 PM) V Arrow: They represent Tessa Gratton
(5:07:40 PM) V Arrow: IDK if you read her
(5:07:50 PM) V Arrow: But she's very creepy/dark/Southern Gothic/horror-y
(5:08:03 PM) Kai: let me google real quick what she's written
(5:08:38 PM) Kai: I've read Blood Magic, yeah
(5:08:39 PM) V Arrow: Oh, and Brenna Yovanoff, too, I think, which same genre(s)
(5:09:05 PM) Kai: that's cool
(5:09:24 PM) Kai: god thanks so much for your help, I was just asking for the sake of understanding it better and you're helping so much more than that
(5:09:41 PM) V Arrow: Oh, NP!
(5:09:53 PM) V Arrow: I am a huge believer in fandom people paying it forward more than we do.
(5:10:24 PM) V Arrow: I don't believe at all in repurposing fic/pull-to-pub, but I think it's shitty that fanartists help each other get real-life things and fanfiction writers/etc. try to backstab each other out of it.
(5:10:33 PM) V Arrow: That's not being a good person or good subculture at all.
(5:10:40 PM) Kai: that's very true
(5:10:52 PM) V Arrow: Plus, I'm getting agent referrals from someone from Twilight fandom, so it's like a cycle, lolol
(5:11:11 PM) Kai: xDDD you know as much as i roll my eyes at twilight, its actually how abby and i met so i can't really hate too much
(5:11:31 PM) V Arrow: I wasn't in Twilight fandom, but I was in Rob/Kristen fandom, so we were obviously peripheral.
(5:11:38 PM) V Arrow: Twilight had good fic and a lot of it.
(5:12:14 PM) Kai: i wasn't in the fandom but i really liked the concepts of it, so i joined a twilight rp way back when i was in high school on gaia
(5:12:32 PM) Kai: abby and i were in the same one, the rp failed, and we decided to do our own thing aaaaand well, almost six years later here we are xD
(5:12:38 PM) V Arrow: Aww
(5:12:56 PM) Kai: do you mind giving me like, fifteen minutes? i need to run to campus for a study group but i'll have my laptop pulled up xD
