#vizuel

[gear-project]

Do Belpha and Venus have their own distinct personalities when they are apart? Also, are the Lucifero carnivorous man-eaters?

Based on Ramlethal’s outtro you’d think so, but that all assumes that the player who lost against her was weaker than Sol, who in fact, defeated her despite the chain of events afterward.

Outside of Lucifero himself, the pair have not expressed themselves much, other than the markings on their bodies.  They collapse when Ramlethal is defeated, so it’s presumed she controls most of their actions.

If anything they are similar to Mobile Minion Servants that characters could summon in GG2 Overture.  They exist primarily as extensions of a Valentine’s powerful intent, much like the Vizuel.

[gear-project]

Hello! I was just wondering: in-game Lucifero mentions in passing the previous Valent (GG2O), but is it ever explicitly stated that he is the exact same Lucifero? Or is he simply another unit in the Lucifero series, like the Valentines? Also, why does he continue to assist Ramlethal even after she rebels?

Sol asked if Ramlethal intended to rebel, but it turns out she really only wished to 'correct' her mother's actions.  Seems fair enough.

As for Lucifero (Belpha/Venus), they seem to have memories of the last Valentine, but whether those are real or not is not known, since Valentines were given a mostly artificial environment to grow up in.

Jack-O's 'Lantern Familiar' chained to her leg appears to be a 'prototype' of Lucifero, so it's possible many Valentines had one.

It's presumed that Ramlethal's main familiar is Belpha, while Venus originally served her sister Elphelt, making them a uniquely created pair.

[gear-project]

Referring to a previous about Ramlethal and Mother, does this not contradict the assertion made by Elphelt that the Universal Will/Merciless Apocalypse has no physical form? Is Elphelt's claim just a part of her subliminal Valentine programming or is it simply outdated?

Having antennae does contradict the idea that the Universal Will has no “physical form”… at least, in terms of Elphelt’s projected view of her ‘mother’ in concept.

Remember, most Valentines have never seen their true Mother… so if she does exist, she hasn’t revealed herself to them… and exists primarily as a command program to control the Valentines as a series.

Also keep in mind Ramlethal’s statement about her mother having antennae occurred in Bedman’s Theater of Pain… it was essentially a nightmare that wasn’t real.

Also don’t forget that the first Valentine also had antennae, which supports Ramlethal’s claim.  It may not apply to their Mother, but it may apply to the Valentines themselves to some degree.

[gear-project]

Are the Valentines actually aware of their existence as derivative copies of Justice and Aria?

That’s still up for debate.  There’s still quite a bit we don’t know about where Valentines come from or what they are exactly.

I’m sure we’ll find out eventually though.

I wouldn’t expect Ramlethal or Elphelt to know much about their origins though, since they were “formed” in the Backyard pretty much.

[gear-project]

Are Belpha and Venis really the same species as Lucifer? If so, did Valentine's Lucifero also have the ability to divide itself into two separate personas?

Lucifero is Belpha and Venus combined.  It makes more sense to just assume the two are two “halves” of the individual being known as Lucifero.

Lucifero when speaking with Ramlethal seems to indicate he has memories of serving other Valentines, so at best he is a ‘familiar’ to them or serves under them at the behest of “Mother” as far can be determined.

Since he is a familiar though, he still has to obey Ramlethal even though she’s rebelling against “Mother”, even if he has opinions against the idea.

[gear-project]

Could the quotes on Ramlethal's clothes and Lucifero familiars possibly refer to how she was originally supposed to be nothing but a disposable bait?

Valentines are constructed with a “disposable purpose” in mind, right down to the very outfits they wear and the subconscious “directives from Mother” they are given and cannot disobey.

The simplest answer is that the reason they look the way they do is because they were formed in the Backyard to begin with, which has no absolute concept of time or place.

[gear-project]

Where was Ramlethal during the fight with Justice, the Conclave, and the Opus? She would've been great help sense she reformed by then.

“Where were you on the night of November 4th, 2187?!”

Just kidding.

Sorry to say but there’s just no accounting for what all was going down in Illyria at that time.

Leo Whitefang deliberately evacuated most of the citizens in the area to prepare for St. Elmo’s Fire and the appearance of Justice… so not even the soldiers were there.  Only the Opus.

Because of Ramlethal’s status as a “potential threat” she was probably still in confinement near the “Situation Room” in the castle at first, but because Elphelt was involved in the operation, she had liscence to be concerned, so she probably just broke out and went after El out of worry for her sister.

Of course… that’s what we’re lead to think on the surface.

There’s a CLUE in Elphelt’s later statements that indicates that Valentines cannot defy Mother’s Orders.

But Ramlethal completed her mission, right?  She’s done with Mother, right?

That may be what Ram and El want to believe, that they are not Mother’s tools, but their will is mostly controlled by their Mother directly, like it or not.

Remember, Elphelt’s mission was to ensure that Justice would be revived and to prevent Sol from destroying Justice as well as awakening at all costs…

Ramlethal claims she was not given this information, and early on states that Elphelt must be defective… however!  It’s possible that Ramlethal’s “subconcious self” may be aware of Elphelt’s mission and was deliberately stalling things to ensure that Justice would be revived.

It would certainly be convenient that Ramlethal would know that the Conclave had already merged a soul with Justice in preparation for the revival, something she could have explained to Ky and the rest, but did not… not to mention the implementation of the Opus, though there’s only so much info Ram was privy to that every one else had to figure out on the spot.

Of course…. that’s ALL speculation!  I may just be paranoid.

I’m not saying Ramlethal was truly a hidden collaborator in Elphelt’s secret mission… but it’s possible.  The mere fact that Ramlethal was given the power to subdue Elphelt’s powers is yet another possible hint at an even bigger plot between the two Valentines… possibly a failsafe to prevent either Valentine from failing in completing their tasks and preserving them for future missions from “Mother”!

All I’m saying is, Valentines are still a valid threat, and whether that’s what Ramlethal or Elphelt wants or not… humanity still cannot let their guard down around them just yet!

[gear-project]

I have some doubts about the Valentines and Justice: 1)Considering what you said about Dizzy's Gamma Ray and Necro Install, how is it possible that at least two of the Valentines (the one from GG2 and Ramlethal) have the Gamma Ray ability and the mind control over the Gears (the one from GG2) if they aren't Gears?

First, understand the nature of weapons in Guilty Gear… how they can be built and replicated.  While the output may not necessarily be the same… weapons are weapons and can do damage just the same.  The name might just be a deliberate means of throwing us off the trail of speculation on who’s related to whom, after all… even something like Sol’s Junkyard Dog can emit a powerful beam of light not unlike Justice’ Gamma Ray… and considering Sol’s “Dragon Installed” Tyrant Rave… if he can do it, who’s to say anyone else couldn't manufacture that kind of power artificially?

Further, understand the nature of Valentines and Gears…:

Valentines obey Mother… they cannot disobey her absolute orders unless something happens that causes them to resist against them:

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Valentine: "What Mother wants…doesn't matter anymore!"

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Elphelt: "This is the only freedom I have left…              If this was how it was going to end…            I wish I’d never been given emotions…              If this is all they lead to…              Why did I have to have feelings anyway?!”

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Justice: "I see…Unlike the other Gears, I knew he wasn't completely mine…            Feelings for his parent… Love… I suppose…            He still felt such emotions…            Perhaps, in his diseased mind…            He thought he was doing all this…for you.            Now… I understand… why my… power… was… limi… ted…”

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If there is a difference it is this:

Life when it is born, naturally and slowly develops “emotions”, “identity”, and “thoughts” of things beyond its own self.  You could call this a breakaway from a theoretical higher consciousness (not to be confused with the so-called ‘Universal Will’ that the Conclave talks about, but something like it).  The ability to make choices seems to be something that only certain individuals possess, be they Human, Gear, or Valentine.

Valentines can be born and “programmed” with or without emotions, much like Gears… but unlike Gears, Valentines are closer to being “Human” because they have blood types and because they are “born”, whereas most Gears are either “created” or “converted” from other forms of life.  Sin and Dizzy are rare exceptions because of their “Quarter Gear” and “Half Gear” statuses and are closer to being human as a result.  Human conversions like Sol and Testament are also closer to being Human… even if they are still Gears, though, despite that, their blood cannot be analyzed for some unknown reason.

Upon further analysis… while Valentines can “develop” emotions… those emotions cannot circumvent Mother’s orders… unlike Gears who can ‘evolve’ past the need to obey orders from a superior Command Type Gear.  As a result, unlike Gears, Valentines may develop a split (albeit difficult to define) consciousness, as was the case with Elphelt.

Then of course there is the founding idea “That Man” placed in our heads about the Valentines being “illegitimate heirs”.

You could say that a Valentine is closer to being a rough "Copy" of Justice than being the genuine article.  This also further illustrates their need to ‘revive’ Justice, over attempting to replicate her, because of the power the original Justice had.

Does that mean that Valentines are Gears?  Or does it mean that Valentines are Human?  The latter seems more likely, given the Valentines have been unable to defeat Sol Badguy (the Prototype Gear)… but it also means that the Valentines wish to become like “True Gears” in terms of strength and power… so they try to replicate and imitate the power of Gears.

Though Valentines are “closer to human” they are still ‘not human’ because of their powers which are comparable to Gears, and their inability to express emotions or understand humans… but that could change in the future, assuming Valentines have the capacity to evolve like both Humans and Gears do…