Tanu's Findings

A place for all of this Tanuki's Curious findings and ideas.

[tanus-lab]

Oh but, these only count if we’re not discussing betty being a flawless character. Remember people say she’s perfect and a mary sue, so these 3 instances did not happen at all just so they can’t be proven wrong.

Camilaart

So....I wanna talk about this for like the half hour I take to write and post these things.

To Define a Mary Sue, to begin:  Mar·y Sue, noun, (originally in fan fiction) a type of female character who is depicted as unrealistically lacking in flaws or weaknesses.

Just on this definition we have problems. But let’s go with my own definition of a Mary Sue. A normal character acts on the world, a Mary Sue is acted upon by the world, inevitably to their benefit.

With these two definitions in mind, let’s begin. Oh yeah and heavy spoilers.

So the first moment that gives people this idea is inevitably her (actual) introduction. You know, when she shishkabobs Sans. At first, yeah it kinda seems that way, she steps in like ‘Yo what up?’ and murders the....second strongest character from the Underground? I think? With ease. But I can explain this two ways, if you prefer. The first is in-universe: Betty laid a trap that they fell for, a carefully planned manipulation to try and obtain Asriel’s soul...or probably just A soul. The second is out of universe and a concept most works use called ‘Beginner’s Luck.’ that is ‘A character who has only just appeared will do far better than later on to make them seem credible.’ Or I guess in this case a credible threat.

The second is her defeat of Gaster, and survival of the eradication machine. This is probably the most credible point? She basically just by luck happens to snag a soul and get enough power to turn the tides. Sorry Camilla I can’t defend this moment MUUUUCH. BUT Storyline wise if it ended here that’d be kinda a boring as all hell story soooo....Though I am curious myself how, if her shell is human, she did survive the eradication machine. Maybe I’m forgetting a detail.

I don’t need to talk about the Undyne fight....like at all. It’s a good 5 minutes of Betty NOT being a mary sue to the absolute limit. She gets her face pounded into burger meat. She gets DUNKED harder than Darius could ever dream (god I’m a nerd). I have a thousand euphemisms for Undyne giving Betty a proverbial spear bukkake session. I just wanted to use some of them. Even when she manages to survive by getting that hate vial, that was still set up as an option she had that she took from Jessica. (I was thinking Rachel for like half a minute for some reason, I should stop doing these at like 4 am) Her escape from Undyne is a bit confuzzling but you can just go back to storyline wise it being uninteresting. (To most people, personally Undyne breaking her in half would’ve been fine with me)

The next one is prooooobably her beating Asriel in a manner of seconds, and well...he is a kid. I doubt he used his infinite power to train himself in sword-play. He didn’t have the millions of resets Frisk did to get used to fighting, or even get used to fighting in this new body. (After he’s possessed by hate I’m assuming he’s just taking pointers from Betty or somefin) And then we have the second time where Betty gets disarmed, this time far more literally, so that’s where my defense can stop. Her getting away after Sans is freed I just attribute to the aspect of Fear being amazing at running away...actually that makes a lot of sense for her getting away from Undyne too.

Her fight against Mettaton is more just her being strong. Mettaton isn’t used to fighting and experience just wins out. And then when everyone arrives she takes a good few minutes to scare the piss out of the audience and declare her plans for the world that make me guess she doesn’t know that killing Chara will just sorta, blip everything out of existence. Also do they not have like magical nukes? Or Like anti-magic materials? There’s so much about this world I wanna explore. IM GETTING OFF TOPIC AHHHHHH Anyway yeah that’s my summation of why Betty isn’t a Mary Sue. In any case above the situations are borne of her own plots or her abilities. She even gets thrown into an industrial fan by Undyne to really hammer home how not a mary sue she is. She gets blue screened by a fish-shaped virus. She gets microwaved on high for 6 minutes.

Alright I’m done. I doubt this’ll convince anyone but I have nothing better to do at 4 am so- I just noticed I totally just left the definitions I gave behind in the dust, I guess they’re more comparison pieces then? Well what’evs. I can make a more concise one tomorrow if anyone wants. I’ll probably start posting actual content I’ve made myself rather than making theories about something I could never hope to match the quality of. Now I’ve made myself sad. Gnight!

[tanus-lab]

Pic is from Diablo. So….I didn’t think Senpai would actually ever notice me? But, like I guess it works out? I…feel like stating another of my dumb theories, and yes the picture is related. This will probably be my last Glitchtale sorta thing for awhile? I want to post about other stuff (which means anything I post will probably get less attention but…this account is just for fun anyway.) *lecough* *also spoilers* The Clear Difference between LOVE fueled Determination and regular Determination in Glitchtale. Or as it can better be summed up: Determination is stronger if the user is willing to kill.

From Betty’s very birth onwards we can see that Fear has a definitive weakness to determination, this isn’t surprising in and of itself. Determination itself is the power to fight through opposition, and through fear itself, to claim victory. Every user of Determination has shown this capability, from Frisk (who it could arguably be said that was so determined he didn’t fear the side effects of passing his hate onto Chara) to Sans (who while fueled by Frisk’s determination no longer shows any worry about fighting Chara, or even Gaster, despite being at a full disadvantage beforehand), to Undyne (who gleefully stomped Betty’s face into the ground for about 5 minutes of pure ecstasy to watch despite her literally representing fear itself.) But Determination has a clear weakness in that if it can be broken it’s user will as a direct result lose all willingness to continue (as happened with Copper, when Amber was murdered) But this weakness needs to be exploited cleverly, and Betty has shown that despite how clever she was garnering trust and attacking the city….she never seems to be able to pull off the same breaking that Agate did. The two times she attempted to make use of that (tricking Undyne into killing Alphys, and killing Asriel) it backfired spectacularly and got her nothing but a couple of fresh dents to her face and ego. I DO think that if it had been Chara from the start and not Frisk that Chara would have lost his determination (he’s much closer to Asriel afterall) but I digress.

Now let’s look at the situations where Betty has been at a disadvantage, Gaster (at first anyway, but he clearly stated that either he’d leave the room or nobody would, clearly willing to kill Betty) Undyne (who had just been tricked into killing the love of her life and almost DID kill Betty) and Frisk (who literally said ‘I will kill you.’) In each of these moments the protagonists have shown a willingness to kill that fuels them, and in Undyne and Frisk’s case it was purely fueling their determination, Undyne transforms out of grief and determination to survive, (really killing Alphys was like trying to put out a fire by pouring gasoline onto it?) and Betty said Frisk’s determination felt different the instant he became ready to kill her. Hell you could even connect this too Sans back when he was powered by Frisk’s soul, he was willing to kill Chara and reset, and he was willing to use lethal force to stop Gaster.  Compare this to Frisk getting himself stomped by Betty when he was far from willing to kill her, only able to survive much less land a hit. Or Copper being at a disadvantage against Agate, he wasn’t willing to kill his sister despite how dangerous she had become. This personally shows a clear difference between Determination that’s fueled by a willingness to kill, and Determination that isn’t. Now yes you could say that Determination otherwise is stronger in some ways, allowing Frisk to break through space itself and save Sans, and giving Asriel the power to defeat the hate-fueled and hate-possessed Chara nonviolently. 

This, long, circuitous journey I’ve led you on also leads to a point that is purely hypothetical, impossible to prove, and makes sense probably only to me….In theory, with the power of the multiverse at my fingertips, who would be the best person that could be brought in to deal with Betty? This is where the pic related comes in, it’d be Imperious, Archangel of Valor of the Diablo universe (the guy in the picture) Now, putting out of mind the fact that him appearing miiiiight be a death sentence for the characters as a whole (since well, he has an unrestrained ire of humanity), Imperious is the perfect opponent for Betty. First, he is a competent warrior unto himself, the most powerful of the angels of the High Heavens and the leader of the Angiris Council (after Malthael vanished and then became the Angel of Death, I’m going to bet nobody expected diablo spoilers). Secondly, he’s had thousands of years of experience fighting Diablo, the literal embodiment of fear, and only ever lost too him after Diablo gave up on trying to subvert Imperious and instead used Baal’s power of destruction to simply overpower him. And third, as discussed in the past goddamn hour it’s taken me to write this thing, Imperious is almost TOO willing to kill, and Valor is quite synonymous with Determination. 

So….Yeah. I’m not trying to prove some uber haxor thing with X character is stronger than X character, This is a purely hypothetical theory that I felt like typing because it’s almost 5 am as I’m writing this and I probably should have gone to bed like an hour ago? But…alas days off are such sweet things to enjoy.

I guess I’m done? I reaaaaaaally hope this doesn’t piss anyone off but I spent the last hour hour and a half or so typing this and I’m gonna post it. And like, if people just don’t read the last few paragraphs I’m good!

[camilaart]

I really appreciate the analysis. Interesting idea as well.

But you’re right. If the geno route has proven something, it’s that your power has no limits when it’s fueled purely by the intentions to kill your opponent.

[tanus-lab]

I wasn't aware it was possible to let out a screech of joy about the same thing happening twice? Idk I'm a weirdo. Thank you Camilla for taking the time to read it!

That being said upon re-reading I remembered a small addendum: About Betty not being clever, she threw that label off by reviving Asriel the more I think about it. It's a way to instantly demoralize her opponents and break their willingness to fight.

Also while I have your attention I have a single question: Does Bravery have any given strength over Fear as well? Given the way the pink soul came about and how Bravery is in usual media the codified trait to have to fight fear?

[tanus-lab]

Pic is from Diablo. So....I didn’t think Senpai would actually ever notice me? But, like I guess it works out? I...feel like stating another of my dumb theories, and yes the picture is related. This will probably be my last Glitchtale sorta thing for awhile? I want to post about other stuff (which means anything I post will probably get less attention but...this account is just for fun anyway.) *lecough* *also spoilers* The Clear Difference between LOVE fueled Determination and regular Determination in Glitchtale. Or as it can better be summed up: Determination is stronger if the user is willing to kill.

From Betty’s very birth onwards we can see that Fear has a definitive weakness to determination, this isn’t surprising in and of itself. Determination itself is the power to fight through opposition, and through fear itself, to claim victory. Every user of Determination has shown this capability, from Frisk (who it could arguably be said that was so determined he didn’t fear the side effects of passing his hate onto Chara) to Sans (who while fueled by Frisk’s determination no longer shows any worry about fighting Chara, or even Gaster, despite being at a full disadvantage beforehand), to Undyne (who gleefully stomped Betty’s face into the ground for about 5 minutes of pure ecstasy to watch despite her literally representing fear itself.) But Determination has a clear weakness in that if it can be broken it’s user will as a direct result lose all willingness to continue (as happened with Copper, when Amber was murdered) But this weakness needs to be exploited cleverly, and Betty has shown that despite how clever she was garnering trust and attacking the city....she never seems to be able to pull off the same breaking that Agate did. The two times she attempted to make use of that (tricking Undyne into killing Alphys, and killing Asriel) it backfired spectacularly and got her nothing but a couple of fresh dents to her face and ego. I DO think that if it had been Chara from the start and not Frisk that Chara would have lost his determination (he’s much closer to Asriel afterall) but I digress.

Now let’s look at the situations where Betty has been at a disadvantage, Gaster (at first anyway, but he clearly stated that either he’d leave the room or nobody would, clearly willing to kill Betty) Undyne (who had just been tricked into killing the love of her life and almost DID kill Betty) and Frisk (who literally said ‘I will kill you.’) In each of these moments the protagonists have shown a willingness to kill that fuels them, and in Undyne and Frisk’s case it was purely fueling their determination, Undyne transforms out of grief and determination to survive, (really killing Alphys was like trying to put out a fire by pouring gasoline onto it?) and Betty said Frisk’s determination felt different the instant he became ready to kill her. Hell you could even connect this too Sans back when he was powered by Frisk’s soul, he was willing to kill Chara and reset, and he was willing to use lethal force to stop Gaster.  Compare this to Frisk getting himself stomped by Betty when he was far from willing to kill her, only able to survive much less land a hit. Or Copper being at a disadvantage against Agate, he wasn’t willing to kill his sister despite how dangerous she had become. This personally shows a clear difference between Determination that’s fueled by a willingness to kill, and Determination that isn’t. Now yes you could say that Determination otherwise is stronger in some ways, allowing Frisk to break through space itself and save Sans, and giving Asriel the power to defeat the hate-fueled and hate-possessed Chara nonviolently. 

This, long, circuitous journey I’ve led you on also leads to a point that is purely hypothetical, impossible to prove, and makes sense probably only to me....In theory, with the power of the multiverse at my fingertips, who would be the best person that could be brought in to deal with Betty? This is where the pic related comes in, it’d be Imperious, Archangel of Valor of the Diablo universe (the guy in the picture) Now, putting out of mind the fact that him appearing miiiiight be a death sentence for the characters as a whole (since well, he has an unrestrained ire of humanity), Imperious is the perfect opponent for Betty. First, he is a competent warrior unto himself, the most powerful of the angels of the High Heavens and the leader of the Angiris Council (after Malthael vanished and then became the Angel of Death, I’m going to bet nobody expected diablo spoilers). Secondly, he’s had thousands of years of experience fighting Diablo, the literal embodiment of fear, and only ever lost too him after Diablo gave up on trying to subvert Imperious and instead used Baal’s power of destruction to simply overpower him. And third, as discussed in the past goddamn hour it’s taken me to write this thing, Imperious is almost TOO willing to kill, and Valor is quite synonymous with Determination. 

So....Yeah. I’m not trying to prove some uber haxor thing with X character is stronger than X character, This is a purely hypothetical theory that I felt like typing because it’s almost 5 am as I’m writing this and I probably should have gone to bed like an hour ago? But...alas days off are such sweet things to enjoy.

I guess I’m done? I reaaaaaaally hope this doesn’t piss anyone off but I spent the last hour hour and a half or so typing this and I’m gonna post it. And like, if people just don’t read the last few paragraphs I’m good!

[tanus-lab]

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO a theory appears, because I have a lot of them. Alright.

Chara uses two weapons? Traditionally, a fighting style like this either has little, or no, ability to block, neither arm is individually strong enough unless there is something tangible that the weight is spread out on (such as a shield). A fighting style like this would use more parries (such as in Renaissance era France, Musketeers utilizing parrying daggers alongside their main blade) and just discouraging attacks in the first place (such as with Vikings wielding two axes, charging brutally into battle and striking an instant fear with their visage, though in the case of swords it requires more control and just being BETTER than your opponent, due to the lack of power concentrated in any distinct part of the weapon), which....seems kinda perfect? Betty is an entity of fear, of terror and of horror, she keeps people on edge through her monstrous form and her overpowering fighting style. Like I pointed out before, something that relies on skill (such as how Sans fights, or a dual bladed style that necessitates parries and deflections) would have the capability to fight AROUND this, forcing Betty onto the defensive. And if you can take control of a battle from a being who dominates via fear, and if instead THEY begin to fear, then you’ve already won half the battle. Anybody who’s made Betty feel fear so far has had the advantage, from Gaster (who lost because Betty got enough power at the perfect moment, and was otherwise able to do as I said and take control of the battle) to Undyne (who simply ignored her tricks and overpowered her which is not a good example for this post but EH.)  And yes, I know basically nobody cares about these posts but...I have VERY little to do at 4:15 am. Also most of the information is from animations that most people who read this will have seen? The few that aren’t (such as the viking and musketeer things) are from both personal knowledge and a quick google search.

[tanus-lab]

Just a thought. Also my first post I guess.

So....isn’t Sans in some ways the perfect counter to how Betty fights? He’s proven to be more than capable of fighting even when the odds are against him and he’s deathly afraid, Betty since refusing with Kumu has shown a penchant for force over finesse, only resorting to anything but overwhelming power when she has needed too (such as to escape Mettaton’s spotlight the first time), a style that Sans has been shown to be perfectly willing to dance around, and he creates so many bones and blasters that Rhabdophobia would barely inconvenience him...Just a thought.