Templar Dragonknight, Son of Thunder @templardragonknight - Tumblr Blog

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archangelsunited

Stormcloak memes, as promised.

copycatorkittysenpai

all dis is true

templardragonknight

No, literally nothing there is true. Y’all could’ve just said that you don’t know what you’re talking about instead of pushing rethorics that are debunked by that one Dossier.

The Stormcloak Bible DEBUNKED PART 1

Disclaimer: apparently the original post has been removed, so I am once again posting it because I have a post that served as back up in Deviantart.

Stormcloaks are often biased and most tryhard ones show little knowledge about the lore (or they actually know about it and just refuse to accept the facts). The Stormcloak bible is a great example of this (if not THE BEST example) and in these posts I plan to debunk some (if not most) of the statements shown there (I do not plan to refute all points because I am not a know everything cunt. Of course somethings there may be true). The following is an update of my previous post, as I have gathered far more information since then.

In the first part of this “bible” (http://colonel-killa-bee.tumblr.com/post/68999802440/stormcloak-bible-part-1-analysis-of-the-imperial), the author makes very a superficial analysis of arguments often used by supporters of the empire, so lets take a look at this:

Well, I originally did not want to talk about the past, as many mistakes that the empire may have commited could have been overcomed by the 4th Era (and since the Stormcloaks have little to do with the Third Era, since the rebellion started in the 4th Era), but whatever, I decided to talk about it just to show how the author's statements are foolish: he citates the comments of a dunmer imperial soldier... and what? Now because a single soldier thinks that a united empire would not be a great idea this is suddently the truth? Alright, back to the 4th Era: the author says “The Empire is dying. They have Cyrodiil, High Rock and half of Skyrim. If they won, how would security in their Empire be any better, when they can’t even prevent a bandit uprising within the very heart of their establishment when there wasn’t a civil war?” well, then the author may proceed in explaining why he does not care about the fact that on Windhelm there is a murderer rampaging and the guards do not know what to do ("but they are at war you idiot, they can not do much" you are right, just like how Cyrodiil is trying to rebuild itself after a large scale war, after tons of resourecs were eighter used or sacked), and that without mentioning crime in Riften. While I do not intend to use the tu quoque fallacy here (wich, in case you don’t know, is trying to refute someone’s critique by saying “But you do it as well”) as some cities are thrown in chaos, the fact that our Stormcloak Guy used this argument shows a great chunck of bias from him. This argument can either be used to criticize both sides or not be used at all, you decide.

Also what he says about the security in the empire is simply not true, as it is evidenced by one of the possble dialogues of none other than General Tullius himself (more specifically when you try to convince him to go to High Hrothgar during Season Unending):

Dragonborn: The best time to negotiate is from a position of strength

General Tullius: Fair enough. We're driving the Stormcloaks back well enough at the moment, but we're already overstretched. That's what comes of trying to win a war with a bare handful of legions. If the Emperor would just give me the reinforcements I've requested!

Dragonborn: Why won't the Emperor send more reinforcements?

General Tullius: Most of the Legion is tied down on the border with the Aldmeri Dominion. The Emperor can't afford to risk weakening Cyrodiil's defenses. From the Imperial City, our war here is just a sideshow. An interlude before the main event against the Thalmor resumes.

Also if he actually gave us a more in deep look at Cyrodiilic cities that are in chaos (but he didn't) we would actually see that it is probably one of those situations that could not be easily fixed even by a powerful Empire, well this without mentioning that assuming that a specific governemnt is inneficient thanks to chaos in some cities is to jump to conclusions as a series of factors may make administration and/or interference difficult (geographical relief, climate, how many criminal factions are using hidden locations to grow in power and influence, etc). Heck, it would be like saying that both imperial and stormcloak governments are trash because there are bandits all over Skyrim. Anyway, the journals that describe such events are Cicero's and we can see them all here https://www.imperial-library.info/content/ciceros-journal, but lets have a closer look: in volume 2 it is written "The situation in Bravil grows more dire. The city has erupted in violence, due to a war of control being waged by Cyrodiil's two largest skooma traffickers. The Listener, Alisanne Dupre, has been forced to employ sellswords to protect her own residence." Bravil is very close to Elsweyr (https://www.google.com.br/search?q=cyrodiil+map&client=opera&hs=MgX&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjaz4Pb1MnZAhXmuFkKHWZjAjEQ_AUICigB&biw=1240&bih=914#imgrc=YHy6QwKOyg8TvM: ) and this makes the activities of kooma smugglers far easier, specially now that Elsweyr is not part of the Empire (and even if it was it's harsh conditions would prevent the imperial governemnt from being omnipresent there). In fact even in during the Oblivion Crisis, the very end of what was basically the Golden Age of the Empire, Bravil was considered a poor and violent city. If You did not play Oblivion just like me, a bit of research about Bravil in the Wiki and the UESP will show it clearly therefore in Bravil's case it is not something that is fault of the Empire itself, . In Volume 4, however, Cicero says that Cheydinhal has erupted in violence and chaos, but it is never specified how. Was it a war between rival criminal factions like in Bravil? Just unhappy inhabitants of the city? Was it really a result of bad administration from the Empire? Also a book and a dialogue in Skyrim, that The Stormcloak Guy obviously did not show on his holy book, reveal that the city is not an actual anarchy as many would think. The book is "An adventurer's Guide to Skyrim" (http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:An_Explorer's_Guide_to_Skyrim), wich mentions Cheydinhal and was clearly written after Ulfric’s militia took back Markarth because it mentions the Forsworn (who did not exist before Ulfric and his men drove the Rechmen rebels from Markarth), and the Dialogue betwen Ingun and Elgrim (http://pt.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Elgrim):

Elgrim: "Ingun, you clumsy fool! You've tainted our entire supply of Painted Troll Fat. You have no idea how hard that was to get." Ingun: "I'm sure my mother can compensate you for it." Elgrim: "I'll draft a letter to Rythe. If you could have it sent to Cheydinhal for me, that would make up for your blunder." Ingun: "I'll make sure it's sent right away."

As you can see an Alchemist in Skyrim uses Cheydinhal as means of getting profit, what would not be possible if the city was an absolute chaos by the year 201 of the 4th Era, wich either means that Cicero’s claims were exageratted or that the Empire managed to control the situation (at least to some degree, over the years). A stronger evidence for that is how Elgrim reveals he sends letters to Rythe, that is actually a famous dunmer painter encountered in The Elder Scrolls IV (http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Rythe_Lythandas). If the city was an absolute chaos at the time, we would expect a citizen like Rythe to have eighter escaped of died.

All of that without mentioning everything that is going on on Stormcloak holds. In Riften, Maven Black Briar has the entire city in her pocket (even the jarl) and freely associates with the Thieves Guild (Laila Law-Giver does not know about that). In Dawnstar, Jarl Skald barely cares about his city and sends most of his guards to fight the imperials (and is pretty authoritarian, threatening a former legionnaire for walking around in his old armor for the sake of nostalgia) and Winterhold is ruled by a fool that barely lifts a finger to help the city and instead keeps blaming the College of Winterhold (despite having no proof of what he claims). Again: no tu quoque intended, but if you condemn the imperial governemnt thanks to what happened in a few cities in Cyrodiil but does not give a crap about the flaws of the Stormcloak holds, you are a hypocrite and a biased fool.

After that he citates Valga Vinicia, who says that she moved from Cyrodiil to escape the fighting. This is weak evidence since she never clarifies what she's referring to. She may even be referring to the Great War.

Changing the subject now: the author says that it is understandable for the Empire to not send many reinforcements, thanks to the issue about the southern border (well he basically answered his own question there) and later says "But hello they have ships”. I don’t know if he was intentionally biased or just stupid, but he cmpletely ignored how General Tullius reveals that the Emperor is not sending reinforcements thanks to how it would make Cyrodiil more vulnerable to a Dominion attack. And The Stormcloak Guy may consider taking a look at the map of an interesting continent called Tamriel: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/elderscrolls/images/6/62/Tamriel_Map.png/revision/latest?cb=20150911030824 in order for the Empire to send reinforcements to Cyrodiil it would need to navigate trough Dominion territory, risking being taken down or at least being forced to go back to Cyrodiil, and even if they managed to get trough Dominion controlled seas they would still have to go trough Hammerfell's and High Rock's seas. It would take too long and it would be too exausting to send a considerable ammount of soldiers to Skyrim.

Ironically, Hadvar's dialogue suggests that the Imperial Legion ia actually managing to defeat the Stormcloaks after the Tullius came to Skyrim. If you follow him in Helgen and you ask who are the Stormcloaks he will say "You haven't heard of the civil war in Skyrim? I guess down in Cyrodiil people have other things to worry about.It's pretty simple. Ulfric founded the Stormcloaks years ago, as a sort of private army to advance his ambitions. He's always used the ban on the worship of Talos to stir people up against the Empire. He never succeeded in getting much support, so a few months ago he murdered the High King! That got the Empire's attention." thus revealing that the Empire only started to really pay attention to his rebellion after Torygg's death, wich occured a few months before Ulfric was captured while the war itself had been going on for years (the fact that the war has been going on for years is also revealed by Vulwulf Snow-Shod and Vignar Gray-Mane, tough Vignar does not say it directly). Now if you ask him how did they capture Ulfric he will answer with "A masterstroke by General Tullius! He's only been in charge here for a few months, but he's turned things around for the Empire. We've been trying to catch Ulfric since the war started, but he always seemed to slip through our fingers... like he knew we were coming. This time, the General turned the tables on him. Ulfric rode right into our ambush with only a few bodyguards. He surrendered pretty meekly, too. So much for his death-or-glory reputation. I thought we were taking Ulfric back to Cyrodiil, but I guess the General changed his mind. You know the rest." wich shows that the Skyrim's nord legionnaires were not able to capture Ulfric before the Empired started to really care about this war, and that General Tullius just needed a few months to capture the leader of the rebels. His dialogue actually shows how strong the Empire is, as Skyrim's legionnaires were only able to capture Ulfric after Tullius was sent to fix the whole thing (source: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Hadvar)

Now we get to his points about the best chance for a victory over the Thalmor on a future war. In the first paragraph he talks about the redguards… and acts like if they would signifficantly increase the chance of an imperial victory over the Thalmor, but that is not the case as numbers do not win wars by themselves (some may say that numbers do help. That is right: they HELP, but they do not guarantee victory). His arguments regarding the possibilities of an imperial-redguard alliance versus a stormcloak-redguard alliance are also full of flaws, because as Zorkonov from the Imperial Knowledge youtube channel once explained the diplomatic relations between Hammerfell and the Empire are pretty stable, if not friendly, during the events of The Elder Scrolls V as it is evidenced by the content of the book “Flight from the Thalmor”, wich can be read here: https://www.imperial-library.info/content/flight-thalmor. Pay attention to the very first paragraph:

Dearest reader: The work you are about to experience has been copied and duplicated, so that the story it relates can be spread throughout the Empire. But make no mistake - this is not a work of fiction. The events chronicled in this account are all true, were originally documented in a private journal (which now remains safely guarded in the House of Quills in Hammerfell) and occurred not more than a year before this book was printed.

- Ashad Ibn Khaled, High Scribe, House of Quills, Hammerfell

The Empire has basically allowed Hammerfell to publish a book in imperial land, wich would not happen if Hammerfell was hostile towards the Empire.

Talking about the Hammerfell: before anyone says how the redguards “defeated” the Thalmor after the emperor left Hammerfell lets read the damn book about the Great War, shall we? https://www.imperial-library.info/content/great-war and see what it actually says about Hammerfell "In Hammerfell, Imperial fortunes took a turn for the better. In early 4E 173, a Forebear army from Sentinel broke the siege of Hegathe (a Crown city), leading to the reconciliation of the two factions. Despite this, Lady Arannelya's main army succeeded in crossing the Alik'r Desert. The Imperial Legions under General Decianus met them outside Skaven in a bloody and indecisive clash. Decianus withdrew and left Arannelya in possession of Skaven, but the Aldmeri were too weakened to continue their advance [...] In Hammerfell, General Decianus was preparing to drive the Aldmeri back from Skaven when he was ordered to march for Cyrodiil. Unwilling to abandon Hammerfell completely, he allowed a great number of "invalids" to be discharged from the Legions before they marched east. These veterans formed the core of the army that eventually drove Lady Arannelya's forces back across the Alik'r late in 174, taking heavy losses on their retreat from harassing attacks by the Alik'r warriors. [...] In the end, the heroic Redguards fought the Aldmeri Dominion to a standstill, although the war lasted for five more years and left southern Hammerfell devastated. The Redguards say that this proves that the White-Gold Concordat was unnecessary, and that if Titus II had kept his nerve, the Aldmeri could have been truly defeated by the combined forces of Hammerfell and the rest of the Empire.") as we can see Arannelya's Army was weakned after they took Skaven (that is located in central Hammerfell) and was pushed trough the desert by the army of imperial "invalids" Decianus left (thus showing that the Imperials were more than capable of dealing with Arannelya's army back there) to the point of being forced to the southern region of Hammerfell (as this was the devastated region after the aldmeri army withdrew from the province). In other words: Lady Arannelya's army was extremely weakned thanks to imperial veterans who managed to push her army across Hammerfell's sands... and even tough a united Hammerfell did not have progress in fighting her weakned army (remember that it said the redguards fought to a standstill) for FIVE YEARS, and did not even manage to destroy such army. Also the Dominion-Hammerfell war ended with a peace treaty, the Second Treaty of Stros M’kai, after souther Hammerfell, wich happened to be the chunk of land that was ceased top the Dominion when the White Gold Concordact was signed, got devastated by the war. The conclusions we have is that not only the redguards did not actually defeat the Dominion as technically they did not even drive the Dominion out of Hammerfell by force, but also that the Dominion did not sign the treaty because it could no longer fight, but because it had no reason to fight as southern Hammerfell was basically destroyed.

Now lets take a look about what he says about a Stormcloak victory: it is true that Ulfric wants to fight the Thalmor, but this would be suicide. Why? Because the Stormcloaks SUCK on the battlefield. They have been fighting against locally recruited and unexperienced legionnaires (this is revealed by pretty much every in game Legate), legionnaires that also are what General Tullius describes as “a bare handful of legions” and that Legate Rikke describes as “regular militia material”, for years. The Stormcloaks have been fighting these bare handful of militia like, locally recruited and unexperienced legionnaires pretty much to a standstill for years, so how on Nirn would one expect the Stormcloaks to be successful on an offensive against the Dominion? Also even a fast look at some TES: Legends cards can show you that the Stormcloaks really lack organization and discipline among their ranks (https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Legends:Rallying_Stormcloak http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Legends:Inspiring_Stormcloak http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Legends:Stormcloak_Battalion https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Legends:Ulfric's_Uprising), unlike the imperials (http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Legends:Mentor_of_the_Watch http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Legends:Praetorian_Commander http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Legends:Septim_Guardsman http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Legends:Tullius'_Conscription)

Now we get to the isue of racism (ah shit, here we go again). He begins it by saying that imperialism is about a dominant culture being seen as supreme, but that has nothng to do with racism. How? One can see a certain culture as supreme and not see any race as supreme. In fact, imperialism is not even about shoving such culture down someone's throat, as countless Empires did not do that: the americans do not do it, the romans did not do it (the Jews were allowed to have their customs you know), the mongols did not do it back when they dominated modern day Ukraine and part of modern day Russia, the tamrielic empire doesn not do it (the empire did not shove Cyrodiil's culture down other provinces throats. The Empire gave autonomy to the dunmer, the Empire has no problems with nords having long hairs and beards and visiting Halls of the Dead, Bruma is a cyrodiilic city and is far more nordic than imperial in culture, etc. All of these actions were not chosen on desperate situations unlike the ban of Talos worship. In fact as long as the other provinces accept the Emperor's authority, pay the taxes and report for duty when Cyrodiil is at war, the Empire lets the local government dictate the vast majority of the rules, which is why Skyrim is still ruled by jarls and a High King or High Queen). What General Tullius says about the nords ( "The Legion's always been here. Without us to keep order, the provinces would fall into barbarism and lawlessness. Especially Skyrim. Take for example, Ulfric Stormcloak and his little "rebellion." But rest assured, his days are numbered." ) is ethnocentrism, not racism (there is a huge difference between these two). Tullius did not say that a nord is a barbarian simply for being a nord (because HELLO: Legate Rikke is a nord herself, and if Hadvar survives Tullius will be happy if you tell him that he survived, while calling Hadvar “a damn good soldier”).

The irnony is that the autjor complains about imperialism, but we can see that he is a supporter of nationalism, which sets up a dominant culture in its own nation, and the dominant culture is seen as supreme, wich is exactly what we see in game after a Stormcloak victory. But hey: who needs coherence, amirite!

Now to have an idea of how how the Stormcloaks treat non nords in Windhelm (again: in Windhelm) we can take a look at Malborn (the wood elf that helps the Dragonborn ilfiltrate the Thalmor Embassy): if he survives he will relocate to the New Gnisis Cornerclub, to the Gray Quarter in Windhelm (this is clearly documented in both the wiki both the Wiki https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Malborn and the UESP https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Malborn). Now lets solve the puzzle: Malborn is an elf and an outsider in Windhelm. He had nothing left and he could have gone to Windhelm's Candlehearth Hall in order to live better while hiding from the Thalmor, but he actually goes to the Gray Quarrter, that is basically falling apart. One would clearly not choose to be on a place like that and therefore if the Stormcloaks were welcoming when he came into the city as an outsider with no future, he would certainly not be in the Gray Quarter (and if they think he could be a spy, they could keep him on a place were he would be constantly watched while living decently)... but he is there. Therefore the only conclusion is that the Stormcloaks, and with them Ulfric himself, did not accept him into the actual city and the Gray Quarter was the only option for him. All of this without mentioning that the argonians that live in the docks only live in the docks because they are not allowed to live in the actual city (for being… well… argonians). Heck, if Ulfric is killed and Windhelm is taken by the imperials and you ask Scouts-Many-Marshes (an argonian in the docks) if he is glad that the Stormcloaks are gone, he will say “You have no idea. Did you know it was his decree that forbade the Argonians from living inside the city walls? I hope in his next life, he’s reborn as an Argonian forced to live in a slum because of some bigoted Nord dictator. I’m joking, of course, but I’m a lot happier seeing the Empire running things in Windhelm.” This fact is also revealed by Brunwulf Free-Winter when he says “Whenever a group of marauders attack a Nord village, Ulfric is the first to sound the horn and send the men. But a group of Dark Elf refugees gets ambushed? A group of Argonians, or a Khajiit caravan? No troops. No investigation. Nothing. There’s a group of cutthroats out there right now that Ulfric doesn’t lift a finger to bring to justice, as long as they don’t threaten Nord land”.

Now about what he points about the Roman Empire, I will use the same logic with the old norse: if you, reader, joined the Stormcloaks because you like the vikings for X or Y reasons I have no problem with that (I kinda enjoy their history myself. Heck, I could say I am more of a viking fan than a roman fan), but wanting to apply this to the Lore is nonsense because:

- DNA tests on one of the nordic countries (tough I do not recall wich one) have revealed the vikings were actually very diverse in terms of race. In other words: racism was not that common among vikings, unlike among the nords of Skyrim.

- The vikings made sure to take advantage of their ships when they raided the shores of more southern european countries, as with their vertically thin ships they were able to step on the shore right after jumping from the ship. A similar boat design is seen at Windhelm and the Stormcloaks could have took advantage of that and directly attack Solitude from the sea (as most of Skyrim’s shores are controlled by the stormcloaks at the beginning of the game) in some of the earlier years of the war, but the Stormcloaks chose to get massacred on land instead (on a dialogue with Torsten Cruel-Sea where Torsten directly mentions such navy, Ulfric says he will think about it and that is the closest we get to having an actual Stormcloak navy).

- The vikings had almost the same equipment as the rest of Europe at their time, what can not be said about the Stormcloaks in Tamriel. To give more details: during the viking age (around 800 a. C. to 1066 a. C. if I recall correctly) chainmail and shields were universally used (https://levaleur.deviantart.com/art/Armour-evolution-421878469 https://kids.britannica.com/kids/article/armor/390609) and full plate armor only became a thing by the 15th century, and in this period of time not only the design of the armor improved, but the way it was made, the way the metal was shaped in order to make it harder and more effective, combat strategies were improved, etc. In other words: a Stormcloak soldier fighting a Dominion soldier would be like a viking nobleman fighting a 15th century knight... wich would be like a World War 2 german soldier trying to fight a modern US Marine.

Now if you join the Stormcloaks thanks to Talos worship... one can worship him in secret, just like Alvor reveals the nords did before Ulfric’s Uprising (http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Alvor "It's from that treaty that ended the Great War, remember, when the Emperor was forced by the Thalmor to outlaw Talos worship. We didn't pay much attention to it when I was a boy - everyone still had their little shrine to Talos. But then Ulfric and his "Sons of Skyrim" started agitating about it, and sure enough the Emperor had to crack down. Dragging people off in the middle of the night... one of the main causes of this war, if you ask me."). Ulfric’s agitating is what caught the attention of the Thalmor (since it showed that the terms of the Concordact were not being enforced in Skyrim) and the Emperor (as Alvor reveals not even the imperials were that active in Skyrim before Ulfric started his rebellion), so I am sorry to say that but Ulfric’s means are bringing the opposite of what he promises, and having noble goals means nothing if your means do not work.

The Stormcloak Bible DEBUNKED PART 5

Disclaimer: apparently the original post has been removed, so I am once again posting it because I have a post that served as back up in Deviantart. Ah shit, here we go again.

As if all the previous nonsense in his posts was not enough, in the fifth part of this “bible” (http://colonel-killa-bee.tumblr.com/post/69420668506/stormcloak-bible-part-5-final-is-ulfric-racist) the author tries to prove that Ulfric is not racist using some of the same superficial arguments that Stormcloak supporters like him always bring to the table. But before I go any further, I just want to make something clear: I think that the racism card is by far the worst and most ridiculous argument to criticize the Stormcloaks with and the fact many people only join the Empire only thanks to this makes me frustrated to say the least. “So you are racist as well?” No, I’m not. I think that the way Ulfric treats the dunmer and the argonians in Windhelm is frustrating to say the least and I would never support anything like that, but over time I realized that it is not a good argument when talking about the civil war itself. Think about it: Ulfric started the Civil war under a false premise, as he thought that it was the Emperor that ordered his arrest when it was only Jarl Hrolfdir that gave the order (as jarls are largely independent from the High King and do not answer to the emperor directly unlike the High King), and as the war progressed Ulfric ended up tearing Skyrim apart, weakening it in the process with countless able bodied sons and daughters of Skyrim killing each other each day (thus decreasing the amount of nords that could be used to fight the Dominion in the next Great War), attracting the attention of the Thalmor (as Alvor reveals the nords berely paid attention to the ban of Talos worship in one of his possible dialogues: “It’s from that treaty that ended the Great War, remember, when the Emperor was forced by the Thalmor to outlaw Talos worship. We didn’t pay much attention to it when I was a boy - everyone still had their little shrine to Talos. But then Ulfric and his ‘Sons of Skyrim’ started agitating about it, and sure enough the Emperor had to crack down. Dragging people off in the middle of the night… one of the main causes of this war, if you ask me.“) and all of this to the point of the Thalmor secretly using this war as means to keep Skyrim weakened (since it could be a great ally of Cyrodiil in the next Great War) to the point of it considering to help one side if it ends up being necessary to keep the war on… and among all of this mess your main reason is the racial segregation in Windhelm? I am sorry to tell you this but you may be just giving strength to the Stormcloaks.

Alright, with that said, lets get to The Stormcloak Guy’s post: first he tries to prove that the he is not racist by pointing a meaning of racism (the belief that a certain race is superior or inferior due to certain characteristics). Funny how he did not show any source for his claims there, because he only showed a single meaning of the word. In other words: he cherry picked what was convenient to him and threw away what would contradict him. According to Marriam-Webster (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism) one of the meanings of “racism” is simply “racial prejudice or discrimination”. Something similar is stated by Dictyonary.com (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/racism) and the Cambridge Dictionary (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/racism), so the Stormcloaks in Windhelm (again: in Windhelm) are racist if they mistreat individuals thanks to their race, they are just not as racist as actual racial supremacists, like the Thalmor. The Stormcloaks are segregationists, not supremacists, but still racist nonetheless.

Then he says that everyone in Tamriel is technically racist because “ they believe certain races are good at certain things, and discriminate against them because of it.” Is this true? Well yes, but actually no. It is not true from the point that everyone in Tamriel knows what each race is known for, in other words what most individuals from that race are known to be, but not everyone in Tamrieol thinks every single member of a certain race will be like the majority of that race. Now lets take a look at his list of points that are used by people who say Ulfric is racist:

He says that Ulfric does not have any hatred towards the khajiit by saying that the caravans are not allowed into the walls of any city (what is actually true) and by mentioning the khajiit encountered in Riften. Well, it seems he forgot what one can clearely hear while talking to Brunwulf Free-Winter (“Whenever a group of marauders attack a Nord village, Ulfric is the first to sound the horn and send the men. But a group of Dark Elf refugees gets ambushed? A group of Argonians, or a Khajiit caravan? No troops. No investigation. Nothing. There's a group of cutthroats out there right now that Ulfric doesn't lift a finger to bring to justice, as long as they don't threaten Nord land.”), once again trowing away what is not convenient for him. Also he seems to ironically lack knowledge of the nord tradition regarding how jarls rule, as there is a loading screen that reveals that the jarls are largely independent from the High King (which is why each hold tracks it’s bounties separately). This means that even if Ulfric was the High King (which he isn’t, at least not yet) he would not have full control over the other holds, just more influence than the other jarls. In other words what happens in Riften does not help with anything here, as Ulfric has only full control over Eastmarch.

Now about the quote “Skyrim belongs to the nords”, the author caims that this is a dialogue for almost every nord in the game (what is indeed true), but did not even talk about racial segregation among the stormcloaks in this part of the post. I will talk about it in a while.

The author goes on to try to debunk the claim that the Stormcloaks hate all elves. While this is factually false as not all of those who call themselves Stormcloaks hate all elves (Laila Law-Giver’s court, for example), some of the arguments Colonel-KillaBee used were, to say the least, pathetic. Like when he says “Firstly, there is a difference between racism and prejudice” as if racism by itself was not a form of prejudice, as we can see here http://www.dictionary.com/browse/prejudice and here https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/prejudice. Prejudice is about preconceived positions, forming opinions beforehand, without enough knowledge and evidence. This is exactly what racism is about, as it is based on the preconceived assumption that someone is despisable or harmful thanks to the individual’s race). He then says “If the Stormcloaks truly hated all elves, why are there not one, not two, not three, but four Altmer npcs in the city who are not only not in the grey quarters, but are merchants?”, showing that he does not realize that these Altmer live on parts of the city that are majorly populated by nords, which means Ulfric probably does not even know they exist. He mentions one of the altmer claming the dunmer for not having what it takes to conquer the nords’ respect. This elf is Niranye and using her as an argument for this is foolish because what she actually says is “It was difficult at first. The Nords of this city are, at best, suspicious of outsiders. But in time, I made the right friends and proved myself useful enough that they don’t give me trouble anymore. The dark elves are too proud and naive to understand the way things truly are, and so they continue to dwell in that slum.” notice she said that she got the right friends, which means she was lucky. As if all that was not enough, it is revealed in one of the Thieves Guild’s side quests, more specifically the Summerset Shadows quest, that Niranye worked for the Thieves Guild before she became a merchant, so a good part of what she got may not have been trough honest means.

Oh, and that dunmer that owns a farm, Belyn Hlaalu, lives like any other dunmer in Windhelm: in the falling apart slum that is the Gray Quarter, an part of the City that is not populated by nords and that Ulfric treats like trash… and there is no evidence that the Stormcloaks know about his farm, since dialogues suggest they do not know about Faryl Atheron, another dunmer resident of the Gray Quarter, working for Bolfrida Brandy-Mug, a nord woman. You see, while working there we can hear some interesting comments about his situation, such as “Of course working for Bolfrida isn’t my first choice. But what else can a Dunmer do out here?”, or even “Bolfrida is certainly grating, but she pays well. Thankfully nobody from the city can see me out here.” At this point we can see that Faryl is a very tough and hard working individual, but where does Faryl live? You guessed it: in the Gray Quarter (sources: https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Faryl_Atheron https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Faryl_Atheron). Another evidence pointing towards the Stormcloaks not knowing about Belyn’s farm is the fact that Belyn’s employee, a nord farmer called Adilsa, actually LIVES in the farm while the actual owner lives in the Gray Quarter (sources: https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Belyn_Hlaalu https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Belyn_Hlaalu). Such a thing would not happen in Belyn was not trying to hide the fact that he owns a farm. Would Faryl and Belyn do what they do if the Stormcloaks of Windhelm were okay with dunmer owning farms or working for nords? The fact that these dunmer were refugees that lost everything thanks to the eruption of the Red Mountain must not be forgotten either, because naturally there would not be much they could do on these conditions.

Next he tries to prove that Ulfric is not racist towards the dunmer by citating the Decree of Monument (https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Decree_of_Monument http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Decree_of_Monument), but he clearely failed to consider a specific aspect: it says “no compensation TO Skyrim…” It is funny how he conveniently ignored what came right after it. Lets take a closer look: “with no compensation to Skyrim or the Empire except as writ in the Armistice of old wheresoever those might still apply”. In case you do not know what the Armstice was, here it is https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Armistice. It gave Morrowind more independence than the other provinces ruled by Tiber Septim, but the Empire was still allowed to send troops to the province and protect it (remember how the dunmer became angry at the Empire for taking their forces from Morrowind to help defend Cyrodiil during the Oblivion Crisis?), so If Ulfric does not aid the Gray Quarter it is because Ulfric does not want to.

He tries to justify Ulfric’s segregation againt the argonians by saying that it is known the argonians may get suddently overtaken by the Hist, but the question is: did Ulfric have this in mind? The answer is “we don’t know”, so this is not a good argument. The Stormcloak guy then claims Ulfric is doing it for the safety of nords, dunmer and argonians because these races are known to not get along well… sure: he left them to freeze in the docks, with barely having a roof to confort them and barely having what to eat, for their own safety. Logic is overrated, am I right? “Then what about how Brunwulf states that it is also for their own safety” there is a great difference between a ruler banishing a certain group because he is prejudiced towards the group and a ruler who chooses to keep such group separated because the folk in his lands show bigotry (and maybe even violence) towards such group. Comparing Ulfric with Brunwulf in this aspect is a false analogy.

The best part of this? If the return of the argonians to Windhelm would put them in danger, it would show how innefective Windhelm’s governemnt and defences are. Of course, that could be explained by how the war has basically been draining Windhelm’s resources, as it is revealed by Brunwulf himself if he becomes the jarl, but that would only show how ULFRIC’S government was innefective, because the Civil War was Ulfric’s fault in the first place.

Well, about the trade issue: Ulfric would obviously not trade directly with Cyrodiil because he sees them as enemies. Trading with the East Empire Company is no good argument either, as they have business in pretty much all of the provinces of Tamriel, even in the Aldmeri Dominion. And it is funny how he says that “ both are dependent on resources from eachother, and both need to rebuild, especially the Empire.” yeah sure Colonel-Killa-Bee, especially the Empire. Lets just ignore how Tullius reveals that Cyrodiil is managing to keep the Dominion’s army at bay simply by gathering most of the Imperial Legion in the southern border with the Aldmeri Dominion, all while a Stormcloak Skyrim would have just been torn apart by Ulfric’s civil war, weakened and partially devastated, without any chances of receiving any resources from Cyrodiil, unlike an empire supporting Skyrim as Sybille Stentor’s dialogue reveals.

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers 👌

#Skyrim #nords #colonelkillabee #the stormcloak guy

Acerthorn's Why You Should Side With the Stormcloaks DEBUNKED (all 4 parts)

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Ev07adfvk&t=38s Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2OnyJZ2ey8&t=38s

Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHE8XTOPOr8&t=27s

Part 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF1Yn2KJFYA&t=54s

I only edited the text and made the legionnaire’s beard. The “original” one (between quotation marks because almost no meme is “original”) can be seen here https://www.reddit.com/r/SkyrimMemes/comments/92dici/virgin_stormcloak_vs_chad_imperial_legionnaire/

One of the key arguments from the Stormcloaks is saying the imperials were cowards to have signed the Concordact, but this is not true, since the empire was absolutely in no shape to continue to fight after the Battle of the Red Ring, as it is revealed by the book “The Great War” (https://www.imperial-library.info/content/great-war): “Although victorious, the Imperial armies were in no shape to continue the war. The entire remaining Imperial force was gathered in Cyrodiil, exhausted and decimated by the Battle of the Red Ring. Not a single legion had more than half its soldiers fit for duty. Two legions had been effectively annihilated, not counting the loss of the Eighth during the retreat from the Imperial City the previous year.” and all of this while Alinor (formely Summerset Isles, renamed by the Thalmor) had tons of resources after the sack of the Imperial City. “But all the Dominion’s forces were destroyed” wrong, the book states that the main army in Cyrodiil was destroyed, wich means that there were armies left (and now these remaining armies were fully alert, eliminating the advantage the imperials had during the recapture of the capital). “No matter, you should never give up. Die if that is what it takes, but only cowards back off or surrender” then I suppose that killing yourself on the battlefield and give the empire to the Thalmor for free (wich would mean we would have far more than a few Justiciars walking around) should be better, and also you may proceed in explaining why Ulfric is not a coward for having surrendered when he was outnumbered in Tullius’ ambush (he still had the Unrelenting Force shout, you know).

“A good general not only sees the way to victory; he also knows when victory is impossible.”- Polybius

Ulfric is NOT the True High King, Yet

Many people still think that the fact Jarl Ulfric defeated High King Torygg on a duel makes him the rightful High King of Skyrim, but actually it doesn’t, it just means another moot must be convened. “How can you say this?” you ask? Well, in the first volume of Pocket Guide to the Empire, on the book about Skyrim, it is stated that the moot was created to choose the next king from qualified members of the royal family, but that with the death of King Borgas (the last member of Ysgramor’s dynasty) the moot failed to choose the right member (as it became partisan and innefective), what resulted in the War of Succession. The book reveals that after the war “the Moot was convened only when a King died without direct heirs, and it has fulfilled this more limited role admirably.” So no, Ulfric is not the rightful High King of Skyrim yet because the death of Torygg means that a moot should be convened to choose the next High King.

“But Jorunn the Skald-King and Kjoric the White became High Kings afters defeating the previous kings on a traditional duel” wrong as well, because both of these duels happened when the Throne was empty. As it is revealed in the book “The Crown of Freydis”, when Asurn Ice-Breaker (a mighty tribal chieftain) was selected by the Moot to be the next High King, he was put to the test of the Crown of Verity, a crown that was specially made by the wizards sent from each and every hold of Skyrim to test the worth of potential candidates for the title of High King. But the crown rejected Asurn, it literally refused to be placed upon his head, and he threatened to summon his followers to kill every member of the moot if they didn’t name him as the rightful High King. That was when a soft-spoken member got up from his chair challenged him to a duel, and in said duel Asurn was struck down. The soft-spoken member who defeated the mighty Asurn was Kjoric the White, who became the next High King of Skyrim. In the case of Jorunn the Skald-King, it is all revealed in the book called “The Brothers’ War”: his mother, the High Queen of Eastern Skyrim and the wearer of the Crown of Verity, was killed by the Akaviri when they invaded Windhelm and that Jorunn (Who was Jorunn the Skald-Prince at the time), alongside his brother Fildgor (who was Fildgor Strong-Prince at the time), his dunmer allies and the argonians who unexpectedly joined them, defeated the Akaviri by driving them back to the sea, drowning them by the thousands (and this mighty deed was what allowed the creation of the Ebonheart Pact, by the way). Fildgor stepped forward to claim rulership afterwards, but Jorunn refused to support him as he thought Fildgor was too violent and ruthless to be a good ruler. Enraged, Fildgor rallied the Stormfist clan (his long time greatest allies) and all the others who supported him, and Jorunn challenged him to a duel to prevent a civil war. After a long and exhausting fight, Jorunn shattered Fildgor’s weapon and demanded his surrender. With no other option, Fildgor surrendered and Jorunn reluctantly exiled his brother afterwards. Thus Jorunn the Skald-Prince became Jorunn the Skald-King, the High King of Eastern Skyrim during the Three Banners War. As you can see, in both cases the duels happened while the throne was empty, while Ulfric killed Torygg when Torygg was High King. Therefore what is revealed in the First Edition of Pocket Guide to the Empire means Ulfric is not the rightful High King unless the moot elects him.

So The Stormcloak Censor Colonel Killa Bee admits to have created the whole thing just to troll imperials. Maybe this is why his silly project of a bible is so full of shit.

Special thanks to @grandmasterjauffre for the screenshot.

generalofthenorth

I want to talk as a real person here, not as a Skyrim NPC. You once said that you dislike when there is disrespect towards members thanks to the Lore (and I am not gonna lie I kinda share it. I try to be kind when I am not disrespected first), but sometimes it is far more than just a game. I was able to improve my positions and philosophy thanks to the dillemas I faced in Skyrim (particularly in the Civil War) and such is the case with many others. This is what the Lore does. What do you think?

Continuar lendo

templardragonknight

Thanks for answering. Tough just one personnal comment about it: while I try my best to be respectful when talking about the Lore (specially the Civil War), but more than once I have been disrespected while doing this. After I am disrespected I am no longer a nice guy and the one who insulted me can expect worse insults. But that... is just me.

generalofthenorth

Continuar lendo

Season Unending shows who Ulfric really is

Has anyone ever realized how Ulfric's reactions during Season Unending show that he cares more about getting power and winning the Civil War than about the Skyrim itself, and also that It shows how the imperials have more chances against the Dominion?

First as soon as he sees Elenwen in the imperial deligation he demands her to be kicked or he threatens to walk away. Wether Tullius should ir shouldn't bring her is out of the subject, because the fate of Skyrim is at risk. Ulfric threatens to walk away and thus doom the whole world unless everyone does EXACTLY what he wants. If you think someone who acts like this would be a great High King you need to get your facts straight. And for the rest I will assume Elenwen is not kicked because only like this the dialogues are coherent unless the player is already a Stormcloak.

After this Ulfric suddently demands Markarth, a major hold that is dangerously close to Solitude, to be handed to him as his price. "But you join the Stormcloaks Tullius is the one who acts like a baby" well you realize that by saying you are putting an arrow in your own knee, don't you? Tullius only freaks out if the Stormcloaks are joined (what will likely mean they already have Whiterun) while Ulfric freaks out even if the imperials do not have Whiterun, even if the imperials do not control more holds than he does, and this shows that he is desperate to get the upper hand in the war (have in mind that Ulfric is the only one who may demand a SECOND hold). This, combined with all the dialogues showing the imperials are at an advantage on the battlefield (Galmar may complain about how their men are being massacred, to begin with) show that the Imperials are more prepared and better trained to fight than the Stormcloaks, wich means the legionnaries of Skyrim represent a greater chance of a future victory over the Aldmeri Dominion than the Stormcloaks.

Yep ColonelBugKiller, to speak and debate with the High King on “the belly of the beast” would be foolish because Ulfric could be arrested for something everyone knew he thought and wanted when his audience request was accepted, now killing the High King on “the belly of the beast”? That was intelligent and he surely would not have as much trouble.

LOGIC 100

humoristics

Me_irl

credit

Is The Elder Scrolls “Heavy Armor” Actually... Heavy?

Depends on the armor. Daedric armor is extremely thic and with lots of spikes, so logically it would be way heavier than your average steel plate.

Also it depends on the situation where the soldier calls the armor "heavy". When imperial soldiers call it heavy, is it because of thick shields, or due to long walks (on extremely long walks, too many plates on the limbs slow you down on the long run, despite being an advantage on the battlefield).

If it worked trough this simplistic logic of “plate armor is of course really heavy”, the average citizen would be barely able to wear iron plate armor. Now look at Sinmir or Urthgerd the Unbroken in the Bannered Mare, or Mjoll the Lioness in Riften. Why would they always wear their sets if this was just too heavy to carry around?

We also have the heavy armor books in Skyrim, like this one http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:2920,_MidYear,_v6 “As heavily armored as they are, it will take them at least two weeks, like you said, to get from Bethal Gray to Lake Coronat” this is one of the first parts. Two weeks from the heartlands of Cyrodiil to a Lake in southwestern Morrowind. Having in mind how Tamriel’s surface area is comparable to that of Europe in real life, they would not be able to walk this far in two weeks if heavy armor was as heavy as you claimed.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Chimarvamidium “After many battles, it was clear who would win the war. The Chimer had great skills in magick and swordplay, but against the armored battalions of the Dwemer, clad in the finest shielding wrought by Jnaggo, there was little hope of their ever winning.” spells and blades were innefective against the dwemer in their plate armor and thanks to this they bested the Chimer in many battles.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Hallgerd%27s_Tale “This was hundreds and hundreds of years ago, and Pasoroth was the ruler of a great estate which he had won by right of being the greatest warrior in the land. It's been said, and truly, that much of the House's current power is based on Pasoroth's earnings as a warrior. Every week he held games at his castle, pitting his skill against the champions of the neighboring estates, and every week, he won something. His great skill wasn't in the use of weaponry, though he was decent enough with an axe and a long sword, but in his ability to move quickly and with great agility wearing a full suit of heavy mail. There were some who said that he moved faster while wearing armor than he did out of it.”

Only orcish and daedric armors seem to not follow this rule http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Orsinium_and_the_Orcs “A suit of Orcish armor was purchased and for the first time in his life, Bowyn wore something of tremendous weight and limited facility.” And n these cases the daedric troops of Mehrunes Dagon do not care about practical equipment as they only want gore, dispair and suffereing for mortals (not death). The orcs are known for making the most protective armors among mortal races, and the thicker the more protective, but the thicker the armor, more difficult is mobility. This, however, can be explained by how the orcs tend to be physically stronger and more resistant than other races.

Fucking rats

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