Personally too looking at characters and designs and from a creator perspective I also think Viv's whole characters from different decades comes off like a old idea she can't let go of even though it doesn't hold a purpose anymore.
I think Angel dust is a good indicator in particular. With angel dust hes meant to be a mobster from the 1940's and with that youre going to expect some kind of indicator of that. An outfit from the decade, slang from it. Maybe him being shit with technology that wasn't present when he was alive or hating it because like most ppl they tend to think its "making ppl forget how to do [insert x thing that we did before we had modern tech]" but instead we dont. We have a guy who doesnt at all read as from the decade and this brings into question why? Why make him from the 1940's when all it does is make things make less sense? You could reason that perhaps while in hell, most people who passed away keep up with modern age fashion and slang as theres always new people dying, but it doesn't explain accents or why Angeldust wouldnt mention something or talk about something that would indicate the time he's from like thinking seatbelts are dumb because he didn't have those and he didnt die in a single car crash, or he doesnt understand wireless tv remotes so it took him years to start using one because he thought the electric signals if pointed at him might somehow melt his organs (dumb? maybe, but probably less so to someone who the concept is new to)
Id think maybe her characters from different decades was initially the plan, but as she changed and built things up, despite the decade aspect no longer serving a purpose she keeps it in there because she didnt want to let go of it. Personally, I think her characters if they're not going to change the designs of drastically, are best off being from the modern day. Its either the designs, the speech, the time period, or their personal habits but one of the four needs to give if you wanted to keep it from being inconsistent and right now it seems best that the time period needs to go as everything else points away from time periods.
Yeah, the fact that the Hazbin characters are from different time periods in the past is really irrelevant right now. None of them use any old slang or anything in their designs that give hints about it or anything, they don’t wear clothes from their time periods for example. In fact, a lot of them seem…too modern. You’re very right. ^^
WHY did Viv decide to make Stolas a hellborn who grew up in hell when he’s supposed to be a FALLEN ANGEL? Ya know, the way the ACTUAL Stolas is depicted? He wouldn’t be a baby, there WAS so baby years because he used to be an Angel. Bro….Viv being inaccurate with her demon characters once again…💀
And the thing is…I get it, you don’t need to go by the books EVERY time, not everything needs to be EXACTLY the way these demons were depicted, but this circles back to what I said about Stolas before. Why make him “Stolas” in the first place, if you’re not even going to USE him to his full potential? Let’s not forget how his whole “plant/star/teacher” aesthetic is more of a background thing here, because the character upfront is just a prissy horny gay spazz and it’s disappointing. All I can say is, I hope he’s used to his full potential in season 2, and hopefully we’ll actually dive into what the hell his job with this book is, and what he does. Still though, this is a bizarre change from the original source material.
Valentino is such a gross character. Not even because he is an r*p*st. Because Vivzie, crew and fans like him. Because he gets his own merch, instagram page where he is shown as funny goof, and crew members and fans and canon materials ship him with Vox. That's so shitty. R*p*st characters can be liked by fans but it's understandable only when character is complex and interesting like Griffith from Berserk or Homelander from The Boys. But Val is just one dimentional asshole. He is not interesting. He has no charisma. There is nothing to him. He is just a plot devise and an obsticle for Angel Dust to overcome. But he still gets love from fans and crew members??? That's just gross. The fact that everyone likes him mostly because they are dumb and think Val abusing Vox is funny and romantic and that Val is a funny hot guy. And the fact that people actually ship VoxVal and buy merch with Val
Hazbin Hotel: Angel Dust Redesign Reveal (Review and Critique)
Welp everyone, looks like the “sexy” spider is finally here, with his look for the actual show, and it’s............something. Not good, not bad, just.....something.
So........yeah okay, this is what we’re going for. Cool beans. 😐
Yeah I’ll say it now, my blood ain’t boiling like the last two redesigns. Charlie and Alastor were worth my anger because Viv just made Charlie worse, making her completely red when she was honestly fine the way she was before, and with Al she didn’t do shit, a character who’s problems you could see just by LOOKING at him. With Angel though.....he had issues but I wasn’t expecting her to do much, and what do you know, she didn’t. Nothing creative to make him pop out, no experiments with different colors, no variety, no new features, at this point I’m used to being heavily disappointed. I’m just looking at him and going........“oh....yeah okay.” Like I feel so drained from disappointment than I am angry LMAO, but enough of me yacking, let’s talk about it!
So I guess I’ll start with the background like I always do. It looks nice, I’m honestly glad to know that most of Angel’s room palette will be purple, it’ll be a nice break of all the damn reds in the hotel. Now, of course the background doesn’t contrast with the character, but I think it’s because they wanted to show the FLAT colors without composition so I don’t care, let’s move on to Angel himself.
So let me just say that I’m glad that there’s actual CHANGES here, and not just a white line like a certain character. HOWEVER....the changes are........not so good in my opinion. Now before I get to that, it’s obvious to note the changes made that make it easier for animators. There are less spots on Angel’s head, he doesn’t have a big row of teeth like before, and he has less stripes on his suit so I do appreciate that, but again, the changes made and the lack of unique variety get to me, so let’s talk about it. Firstly, he has no black pupil over his....other pupil and I honestly don’t like that, it looked better before and I thought it fit with the whole “two eyes” thing, it made you drawn to his eye and now it just looks the same, you could even say it’s a little off putting. They could have maybe made it a different color, along with his yellow sclera because it’s just pink and yellow, again....the colors Viv is obsessed with. I miss his grey sclera. Anyway, another change is that his right eye, bow tie, and suit flaps are all black now. Which......is boring. I mean...I’m glad his suit flaps aren’t hot pink anymore but it seems like whenever Viv needs to change a color that wasn’t necessary to the design (so all the pinks and reds) she’ll just make it black because she’s still stuck in her comfort zone and can’t use other colors or the world will end. If you seen some of my blog, you’ll know that the reason I don’t like black on viv’s characters is because it’s another color she overuses, when she’s not using reds, pinks, yellows, and whites, it’ll be black and I just think it’s a boring and a lazy color to chose when you’re trying to make the character look appealing. It can work SOMETIMES but with Viv I’m just.......ehhh, though you can disagree with me.
Moving on, I also noticed how his bow tie doesn’t look like a butterfly now, and I’m honestly glad, I never liked the way Viv drew bow ties, but I still think THAT along with the choker is unnecessary, they should have gotten rid of one of them because it just looks weird. Man, Viv really likes chokers huh?? But enough about that, let’s get to his actual suit because DEAR lord it’s the worst part. Now I’m going to be honest, the first time I saw this as a whole I just went “what the fuck is he wearing??” Because it looked like a freaking suit/nightgown LMAO. I’m obviously talking about his second pair of arms, as it seems like he’s sleeveless. Turns out he actually IS wearing a pair of gloves there, they’re just white (Viv confirmed on Twitter) so.....ONE, looks like Viv forgot to convey that in the drawing, and TWO.......yeah the choice to have him wear two different pairs of gloves in each set of arms is ridiculous. Like.....I don’t get it. Why? Is it to make him stand out? Because it doesn’t, it just makes him look distracting and wonky to look at, ESPECIALLY in animation. If I saw him moving around a lot, I’d just wouldn’t know where to look, the two gloves make him look busy, it was a stupid decision I’m sorry. Moving on, instead of his suit being white with pink stripes, it’s pink with white stripes. I’m just like.....o-okay?? I mean I’m happy his entire suit doesn’t look like his fur like before but I’m just meh about this. Again his whole suit in general is just....boring, I don’t think I’ve ever said this before, but I don’t like how Viv draws suits, they all look the same and are all DRAWN the same and half of the time they honestly don’t even LOOK like suits, so at this point I don’t care about the switching of the white to pink. Oh, and I guess those small white markings on his first set of gloves are to make him stand out as well. Ugh.....it’s the COLORS that are the issue. For HIS case, I don’t mind white and pink being his main palette but I still wanted other colors OTHER than black. Again, purple would have been nice but.....we’re clearly not getting that. Viv just needs to start using more color variety, and the fact that Angel’s colors are all the same bore me.
So yeah, that wraps it up for Angel’s redesign. I can’t call it awful, it’s certainly not as bad as Charlie with her red, but it’s still bad. Not only is it boring and more busy with the stupid set of different gloves, but it’s just uninspiring. I don’t understand why he couldn’t have a suit with lines, or a buttoned suit, and it still disappoints me that he doesn’t have his mobster hat or even a TAD features that point to him being a mobster in life. I saw a REALLY good redesign on Twitter for him, and I’ll share that in another post, but for now, this Angel Dust is..........a downgrade, that’s all I can say. 😔
What's ur opinion about Vaggie's redesign/outfit change? I personally like this one better than the pilot one, mainly 'cos the colours suits more with hell and if you really pay close attention to detail you can see that her hair resembles moth's wings. I'd love to hear/read ur opinion of her.
I knew this was comin'. Y'all knew this was comin'. Let's do it!
First, some positives: Her hair does resemble moth wings, indicating that her design is, in fact, inspired by moths. We didn’t really get that in the original. Also, her outfit looks like something a hotel employee might wear to work, and the red matches Charlie’s new outfit as well. Eliminating the stripes from her socks was another good choice, as it makes things easier on the animators.
Here’s something I don’t understand, however:
What’s the purpose of giving both Vaggie and Angel Dust identical chokers, as well as the same scalloped shapes on their outfits (specifically at the edges of Vaggie’s sleeves and Angel’s pink gloves)? Typically when character designs feature the same types of shapes or accessories, there’s some sort of meaning behind it, which I go into more detail about here.
An uninitiated person might get the impression that these two characters are symbolically linked based on their clothing choices. The scallops and chokers might be part of the uniform for workers in the hotel, but Angel is a boarder, not an employee. They might represent the characters’ history as sex workers (that’s still part of Vaggie’s backstory, right?), but that would only hold water if other sex workers in Hell wore the same items.
To me, this looks like Viv trading one problem for another. She previously had the issue of giving bow ties to tons of characters for no explained reason, and now she has the issue of similar chokers and scallops for no explained reason. Her attachment to aesthetics rather than meaning has caused both problems. Maybe I’ll be generous here and acknowledge the possibility that there is some symbolism in these choices we just can’t see yet, but Viv’s history of doing this doesn’t inspire optimism.
Also, the tweet featuring Vaggie’s new design referred to her as the “protector” of the hotel. So like... Security? Her pose and expression here make her look like a fighter you wouldn’t want to mess with, but I question how well-suited her fashion choices are to the task. Someone could easily grab her long hair and ribbons in a scuffle, and I’m not sure how much mobility that tight skirt would allow.
Just for kicks, I Googled “women’s security guard uniform” to see how many of the results included skirts. It’s about as many as you’d expect. Once again, Viv sacrifices practicality for aesthetics, thinking more about what she finds pleasing to look at than the character’s needs. You’d think Vaggie of all people would be more sensible than this.
Anyway, I whipped up some sketches of how a shorter, more manageable hairstyle might look. The hair’s out of the way, it’s still shaped like moth wings, and there aren’t any ribbons to deal with. Viv seems to think hair and outfits can only be fashionable or functional, and that’s simply not true.
I’m also not sure why a character who died in 2014 is in the crow’s nest of a ship that looks to be from the 1800s or so. What’s the connection there? Guess we’ll have to wait and see.
[Got an ask regarding what I thought of Alastor’s “redesign” (anon’s quotes, not mine). Fully intended to answer it directly. But of course Tumblr wigged out on me and wouldn’t let me edit the draft. So let’s try this again.]
Here’s the thing: Viv Medrano didn’t explicitly say there’d be big, exciting changes with Alastor, but hyped him up for days as if this were HUGE, even reminding folks of the big reveal mere hours before it dropped.
I was hoping they’d at least ditch the monocle and stripes, make his antlers more prominent, and give him a more period-appropriate hairstyle. That wouldn’t have been so hard. Instead, they changed practically nothing. I get Viv wouldn’t want to alter Al’s design too much as it might turn off some fans, but really? You couldn’t even let go of the stupid monocle that was already way out of fashion in his time period? And then you got our hopes up for… this?
This?
Let’s talk about managing expectations for a sec.
There’s this Conan clip with Keegan-Michael Key and Jordan Peele that’s always stuck with me. The two guests discuss the concept of “dropping a dook” (at 1:04-1:46):
Basically, be humble and keep expectations low so your audience will be pleasantly surprised. Raise them too high, and they’ll inevitably be disappointed.
That’s what I am. Not mad, just disappointed. I’m glad they streamlined the pinstripes and cut back on the red somewhat, but they could’ve easily changed more without causing an outcry.
Literally all I did in the above image was remove the monocle and enlarge the antlers. If any part of a 2D character is so tiny it barely registers from a distance, why’s it even here? Those puny prongs don’t make him look intimidating, either; it’s like he’s a fawn rather than a full-grown buck. And I know I keep harping on the monocle, but seriously, would anyone miss it? Pretty sure the animators wouldn’t.
(”But Maue, didn’t you see Alastor use the monocle like a radio dial when he was about to sing in the pilot?” Yeah, but I’d argue the round part of his bow tie would fit that function better. Its location around his neck actually makes more sense that it’d control his voice, as it’s more likely to have a direct connection to the voice box. Or drive-thru speaker, or whatever he’s got in there. It’d be kinda hilarious if the dial gave him different voices like Dug from “Up”.)
And just for fun, I made his hair opaque and drew in some separation between the cheekbone and brow ridge.
Al’s eyes are so huge, we don’t need to see his eyebrows in order to read his expression. These are relatively minor changes, but they bring about huge improvements.
I find it odd Viv released Charlie’s new design (which features major changes) without telling a soul she was going to, only to promote the hell out of an Alastor design that looks practically the same as the previous one. It would’ve been better to release this one without warning as well, and do the same for the remaining characters. Like Key and Peele said, drop a dook. Don’t overhype stuff, and your audience will thank you for it.
What is, in your opinion, something or some things that we can learn from Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel as both writers and artist?
There's plenty to learn, though the sad thing is, much of it is what not to do. (Strap in; this is a long one.)
Visuals
- Don't let one color dominate your palette. It overwhelms the eyes and makes characters blend in too much with the background. I'm glad they toned down the red a bit in Helluva Boss, because damn.
- Conversely, don't use so many different colors on background characters that they look out of place in the world. Yes, I'm aware these characters were fan-created, but Viv Medrano could've given these fans a palette as a guideline to stay within so their designs feel like they belong in the show's setting.
Here's the master palette I used for my hellhound designs, based on colors taken from canon Helluva Boss characters.
By making adjustments to the value and saturation of each of these colors, I created a range of new ones that wouldn't clash with the established setting.
Now let's apply the same approach to the background characters in the Hazbin pilot.
For the recolored pic, I took hues from Charlie and the background, and tweaked values and saturation as needed. And for the sake of cohesion, I did a quick and dirty faux-compositing pass on the image.
Notice how the added background shading lets Charlie stand out much more clearly from the extras. In short, paying closer attention to color theory would've made the pilot much more visually pleasing.
-Don't give all your characters the same body type. Not only is this boring to look at, but it robs them of their individuality. We all have unique habits and interests. Maybe one person loves to eat, maybe another likes to work out, maybe another never has much of an appetite. Maybe someone has a HUGE appetite but never gains much weight due to their fast metabolism. Also note that there are numerous ways to be muscular; a bodybuilder's frame will be different from a swimmer's, which is different from a dancer's, which is different from a weightlifter's, which is different from a track star's. It's all about which muscle groups are doing the most work.
Now if there were a story-based reason for everyone in Hazbin (and plenty in Helluva) being stick-thin, this would be easier to forgive. If, for example, sinners took on an undernourished appearance and constant feeling of hunger as part of their punishment, that'd make much more sense. But given Viv's long history of designing stick bugs before she ever gave a thought to Hazbin, I highly doubt this physiological uniformity has any bearing on the story. She just likes the aesthetics of skinny people. Nothing wrong with expressing one's tastes, as long as it has a purpose. Which brings me to my next point:
-Don't include stuff in your designs just for the aesthetics. If it doesn't serve some kind of tangible function, leave it out. Accessories, for instance: Does the accessory show a sense of style unique to this character? Is it part of a uniform? Does it hold special meaning for the character, such as a family heirloom or treasured gift? Does it serve a practical purpose, such as glasses to improve their eyesight? Is it symbolic?
A metric ton of Viv's characters have bow ties for the simple reason that she likes the way they look. Nothing deeper than that. She's only concerned with what she likes, not what the characters like. And much like the samebody syndrome, this steals away their individuality. If so many characters make the same fashion choices, it makes them look like a hive mind. Don't do such a grave disservice to the souls you've created. They deserve better.
-Make the environment make sense. Ever wonder why IMP's building in Helluva Boss has imp horns on it? Isn't that like humans working in a human-shaped building? Some sort of cultural rationale could make this work, but I doubt Viv thought that far into it.
(Writing tips after the cut)
Writing
- Give your characters agency. I've talked about this before, so I won't go overboard with detail, but it definitely applies to Helluva Boss.
These characters don't feel like real people due to how contrived their choices are. Why didn't Blitzo silence his phone while being hunted by murderers? Why did Octavia fully forgive her dad, no questions asked, even when he couldn't explain why he cheated on her mom? If Loona hates being around Blitzo so much, why didn't she just stay with the succubi on the beach? Why did Blitzo make out with the guy who treated him like a slave in the trip-out sequence mere minutes before? Why did Moxxie make a huge romantic gesture in an environment where such gestures are frowned upon? Why did Blitzo draw attention to himself when he knew there were people in the room he didn't want to engage with (and don't say "because he was defending Moxxie and Millie"; he could've easily done that without showing himself. There's a thin line between courage and stupidity, and he's crossed it several times)? Why did Stolas bring an imp to a couples-only club despite knowing it'd ruin his reputation?
The answer to all these questions is "Because the plot demanded it" (seriously, Ozzie's was just one big idiot plot that could've been avoided entirely if the characters used their brains). But let's be honest, if we non-fictional folks found ourselves in the same situations, the outcomes would've been very different due to our possession of common fucking sense. It's hard to relate to and root for characters who make so many facepalm-worthy decisions.
Your characters aren't your puppets. Let them drive the plot, not the other way around.
- Show, don't tell. Yeah, you've probably heard this phrase in the past. In this case I'm applying it to Truth Seekers.
First, we have the DHORKS agents (any clue what DHORKS stands for, by the way?) saying no one takes them seriously, yet they work out of a huge skyscraper with at least a few dozen employees and access to a nigh-unlimited variety of weapons. Whoever's funding all this must take them seriously; otherwise this person/people wouldn't have blown such a huge wad of cash on them.
Then, Blitzo claims he's only hard on Moxxie because he cares, yet we've only seen him berating Moxxie, belittling him, threatening to withhold his paycheck because of a mistake, making fun of his "smooth brain" and "baby dick", stalking him and his wife, watching them have sex, and did I mention the rape threat toward them in Ep 1? If Blitzo had shown some caring behavior prior to this, it'd be so much easier to believe him. But as it stands he's an abusive little shit who straight-up gaslights Moxxie in this moment, and Moxxie just... goes along with it (again, as the plot demanded). Blitzo's words don't match his actions at all, and this is the main protagonist we're supposed to sympathize with. On that topic...
- Don't coddle any of your characters just because they're your favorites. Their actions should always have realistic consequences, regardless of how unrealistic the genre and setting may be. If Blitzo and Stolas had gotten their just desserts from day one, Octavia would've left Stolas, Loona would've left Blitzo, and Moxxie would've fucking quit IMP and filed a restraining order. Yet nearly everyone in their lives lets them get away with murder because the writers favor them. This is beyond insulting to the audience's intelligence. Don't make the same mistake.
- Give romantic partners things in common other than the romance. Whenever we see Blitzo and Stolas sit down and have a conversation, it's always about their relationship or Blitzo's job, and the talks take place in either Stolas' bed or on a date. And at some point between episodes 6 and 7, Stolas' attraction to Blitzo magically developed from lust to love... off screen. If the writing gave this more time to evolve organically over several episodes, the relationship might actually be worth rooting for.
Don't these people have hobbies? Political views? Favorite foods? Favorite restaurants? Favorite movies? Opinions on the huge power gap between them? We know Blitzo's favorite animals are horses; maybe he could gush to Stolas about that-? Y'know, just so they have something to talk about other than sex sex sex grimoire sex.
And here's a thought: Maybe they could... laugh about something together? Cry about something? Experience strong emotions in each other's presence other than lust? That's how you make the audience care about your romantic pairing: Understanding the difference between adult content and mature content.
- Cut the fluff. The Hazbin pilot did NOT need to be half an hour long.
First, there's Vaggie's exposition dump to Angel Dust regarding Alastor's past. She could've simply said "I don't trust him" and then explain why to Charlie in two sentences. This would leave Alastor's origins shrouded in mystery and make the audience curious to learn more in future installments. Plus, he wouldn't seem so ridiculously OP (you're tellin' me some guy who died in the 30s killed tons of overlords who'd been around for centuries, and no one was prepared for it? Also, I thought only angelic weapons could properly kill demons-? Gettin' some Gary Stu vibes there) and the animators wouldn't have to deal with that sequence.
Then there's Husk and Niffty. They really didn't need an introduction here, as they add nothing to the story's climax. And as another ask pointed out, neither did Cherri Bomb. She has no powers outside of her weapons, so Angel could've just taken some bombs and fought Sir Pent on his own. If all these characters were cut from the script, it would've saved the animators countless hours of work (it's so obnoxious how complex Husk and Cherri's designs are), and it would've saved the audience from slogging through a slow-paced second half.
That's all I have for now. May we all learn from these pitfalls and do better in our own projects going forward.
Vaggie’s new design looks cute! However, I hate to sound like a broken record. Again please, Viv, tone down the reds and pinks! Like I understand if the main characters wore clothes with those colors to match the hotel motif, but it doesn’t seem like that. Background characters and environments have too much of red and pink in them too, to the point where it becomes distracting and no one can distinguish the characters from the backgrounds.
I think what bothers me the most about Hazbin Hotel is the sheer laziness of the actual setting in Hell.
Hazbin is supposed to be this 'unique' take on Hell, right? Its interpretation of it is not a typical 'oh you get tortured' scene, but it's different.
So, tell me this...
WHY IS THERE SO MUCH FUCKING RED?
There is so much oversaturation of red, and variants of it in this pilot it fucking hurts my eyes. Listen, these backgrounds are beautiful and well drawn, but please Viv...use other colors.
I get it, it's Hell, Hell is primarily depicted as red, but if this concept is supposed to be a different view on Hell, then why is this not changed? Just seems kind of dumb to me.
The worse thing about splitting is that once i hate someone i feel like an idiot for ever liking them in the first place because they are this horrible person and then once i'm back to idealizing and loving them again i feel guilty for ever thinking anything negative about them because they are literally perfect and this is a never ending cycle
