Cap fans: Tony Stark sucks cuz he's a military/USA propaganda piece >:( Also cap fans: unironically stan Cap, the epitome of American Military propaganda
the funny thing is i was about to create a post about that but now that you just sent this to my inbox, thanks a lot for that.
you are absolutely right. i have seen cap stans unironically claiming that tony is a "representation" of the modern american society while steve is a representation of american ideals which makes me laugh my ass off each time i hear it because how far deep must they be in america's ass to actually say that.
is there an element of propaganda in ironman? yes, ngl, the mcu is full of pro-american military propaganda. but so is captain america, hell, the guy is a symbol of the american propaganda of america "saving the world from chief n*zi". captain america: civil war is perfect american propaganda with steve choosing my way or the highway over the accords (which i would discuss in a later post) instead of trying to understand the concerns of 117 countries who signed the accords.
so yeah, anon, you are right. it is absolutely ironic seeing cap stans calling tony american propaganda when their fave is a walking living breathing symbol of american military WW2 propaganda.
yknow it’s been really easy for disney and the mcu to make tony the mentally ill abuse survivor their scapegoat cause ‘haha evil billionaire’ and then also peddle their pro american military pro police agenda with cap steve blond haired ‘safest hands are our own’ rogers
and the worst part is the majority of mcu fans have swallowed it all down without a thought
Iron Man 2 was funny as fuck like imagine you’re battling a terminal illness and at the end of what is arguably the worst week of your life some guy shows up and is like “we’ve been conducting a secret job interview for a position you didn’t apply for and we’ve decided to reject you” and you just go “alright fuck you too then” and revolutionize the energy business.
I have a question for Tony Antis, who accuse him of US military propaganda, saying that he may not have known that he was selling weapons to terrorists, but still deliberately sold them to the US military, who were killing innocents. Did these people miss the moment that as soon as Tony returned from captivity, he made an announcement that he had closed the sale of weapons, which is the beginning of his heroic path? Like, I literally don't get their point at all. Why are they fixated only on this part and can't come to terms with the fact that Tony has changed?
was watching a tiktok where someone had a theory that strange killed tony on purpose and the opening was legit “tony stark was a villain” swear to you that i have never closed that app faster than i did right now i am so tired of these nasty ass people trying to make tony a villain just to further their own narratives
““Okay,” he says slowly, “Okay, so something was happening. And you think it had to do with J?” “No,” he says at first, and then changes it to a confused, “Yes? I’m not sure. But there’s no way JARVIS would have missed it. And there’s no way he wouldn’t have noticed my blue eyes. And ULTRON! What the hell, Rhodey? You know for a fact I would’ve never made ULTRON. I was the one that told Pym not to in the first place!” “Wait,” Bruce interrupts, ducking down to be at face level with Tony. “What? Pym? As in Pym Technology? What does ULTRON have to do with Pym, Tony?” He winces, holding his head as the whispers grow louder – a voice sings hauntingly about strings (uLTroN- “no sTRinGS oN ME-”), and a golden visual of code floats in tatters in front of him (SiR?). The whispers turn to screams (a quiet part of him screams-) and the mind stone pulses within the head of the sceptre, pulls him closer, pulls him under bLuE BluE blUE- “I never made ULTRON,” he grits out, forcing the words past clenched teeth. “Hank Pym had the bright idea of using his own neural pathways to create an AI for peacekeeping purposes, and came to me for the coding part. I told him it was a stupid idea, that AI’s were unique in the fact that they didn’t think like humans, and wiring one with a human brain as the basis was just asking for trouble since humans fucking sucked. I told him no.” “But-” Bruce goes, “-but you had the code. You said it was your idea. You said you saw-” “‘A suit of armour around the world.’” He quotes quietly, the words suddenly there. “But here’s the thing,” he looks up, eyes tight from the pain and the jarring voice still singing in his ears, “Why would I make a brand-new AI for that?” Bruce doesn’t get it. His expression says that completely. His eyes are wide, his eyebrows furrowed, and he just doesn’t get it. But Rhodey- Rhodey’s expression breaks, grief and the sudden realisation of the truth dawning on him, and even FRIDAY’s eyes glow brighter as recognition sets in. “Why would I go out of my way to build ULTRON, a brand new AI, one that would have to learn everything from scratch, for the express purpose of something as huge as world peace?” Tony continues, trying to explain it to Bruce, but also feeling the need to defend himself, to defend the idiot Stark who’d been unable to drag his dumb ass out of the blue to not do something that had destroyed a country. “Why the hell would I even bother when I already had an AI that knew exactly how to pilot my suits, that knew exactly what to do in any situation because they’d already grown and become their own person? Who I trusted with my life- hell, fuck that, who I trusted with Rhodey’s life. And I’ve looked at stuff too! I had VERONICA up in orbit! Why wouldn’t I just extend her responsibilities? Put up a couple similar in orbit and have her control them? Deploy Iron Man suits from space to hotspots that needed them? Why the hell would I create a brand new AI with alien tech I didn’t understand for something that I could have easily done already?” He’s shouting now, voice raised. His head’s up, his eyes are still squinted against the pain, his head is pounding and his ears are drowning in the whine of repulsors powering up. He can see flashes of things – a party, a hammer, a broken down bot and a city being laid to siege. He can see a farmhouse, Rogers’ snapping a log clean in half with his bare hands, Fury looking old and weary, and- Everyone looking at him. Judging him. Blaming him for creating a killer robot. He’s on his feet – when did he get on his feet? The other Avengers, the ones that disappeared because they were considered criminals worldwide, are suddenly staring at him, pulled in by his voice. The hands slide off him – he misses their warmth for a split second before he forgets that too – and- “Why the hell,” he hears himself demand, angry at Bruce, at Rhodey, at Thor and the damn criminal Avengers, at his own damn self, “would I even bother when I already had the means to manufacture a suit and stick it anywhere I damn well wanted! Why the hell would I suddenly create an AI that malfunctions when I’ve been making AI’s since I was seven! When I already had four functioning AI’s and two more in the works! Why would ULTRON be the AI that suddenly turned evil? Did any of you even stop to think about that or was it too fucking convenient to just blame stupid, arrogant, Tony fucking Stark?!””
—
tempo(ral) by dakhtar
Not all points in this story are facts, because the author changed the story to suit their idea of Tony being under Thanos’ control since 2012, but this whole tirade “Why would I make a new AI when I had tons of them lying around, better equipped to protect the world?” is actually pretty on point.
It shows how idiotic the entire idea was on the storyboard when they made that movie, but because they don’t analyze their own stories, the movies they make, don’t try to understand what they already established about the characters, MCU comes off as a jumbled mess with no logic to it.
Just sayin it's funny how peter was never given hell for being besties with harry and his dad but the second iron man was involved suddenly the fandom couldn't come up with enough rich ppl jokes it's pretty transparent is all I'm saying
The fact that some people dont acknowledge Wanda's involvement in Ultrons creation is whack. Hydra wanted to create and evil AI and most likely knew there was an entity in the Mind Stone (based on some of Ultrons lines, the fact that they had a robot head shaped like Ultrons in the hydra lab before ultron was activated and thor himself saying it came from the stone.) So Wanda, whos a hydra agent at the time fucks with Tonys mind and he just happens to 'create' an evil AI? That shits sus
(Holy shit they were probably trying to mimic iron legion and iron man like Obadiah Stane did and that’s how Ultron got started)
Exactly what I’ve been saying this entire time.
* First of all the fact that Nazi Maxipad was in his head literally seconds before he picked up the staff and decided that they would watch it rather than immediately handing it off to SHIELD is sus.
*The fact that Thor had encountered magic and infinity stones like this before and conveniently never thought to veto keeping it out of strict containment
* They literally all knew in Avengers that the staff was influencing them when they were fighting and Bruce picked it up. Conveniently the only who wasn’t mindraped by Maxipad wasn’t around when they were all influenced in avengers. I found it sus that not a single person brought up containing the staff.
* Tony has never made an evil AI before & considering he has many AIs it’s sus to say that he happened to make Ultron
* The scene when tony and bruce talk about Ultron, all they did was upload the AI like thing that they had found- they never even worked on it (so how could it have been their fault) (they said that he ALREADY looked like Jarvis when they uploaded him( meaning he was already somewhat developed and sentient)
* The scene where Ultron wakes up- he talks like he already has a conscious with thoughts and feelings- he says something along the lines of him not feeling right.
* He also “wakes up” when legit no one is around. Jarvis was literally confused how Ultron even got online.
*The fact that the stones have sentience fills in a lot of blanks. In Thor the Dark World- the Aether literally found Jane Foster and essentially jumped her- it KNEW that she was a way out of containment- This magic obviously did the same.
* The fact that Ultron conveniently hates Tony like a certain Maxipad...and carries a lot of her morals like collateral damage is somehow okay when you think you are in the right.
Short Version- Hydra, Nazi Maxipad, and the unexplained magic of the infinity stones made Ultron. Literally everything points to it.
steve rogers claiming for 2 hours that the sokovia accords would "force political agendas" on people like he hasn't walked around dressed as the embodiment of USA for 4 full movies will never not be funny to me
I understand Wanda and Pietro Maximoff being heartbroken about their parents deaths...but I honestly don't get why they blame Tony for it? If I got shot, I'd blame the psycho who shot me, not the manufacturer of the gun. If I was stabbed, I'd blame the dumbass who stabbed me...not the manufacturer of the knife. Their little revenge fantasy makes NO SENSE unless they're actual psychopaths...which Wanda has shown evidence of being (trapping an entire town in order to live a happy life with a robot????) And siding with a psycho murder bot SHE HELPED MAKE to kill ALL the Avengers just not Tony and only turned against Ultron when she found out he wanted to kill the ENTIRE world including she and Pietro not just the Avengers and some others like ????? And don't even get me started on them VOLUNTARILY JOINING HYDRA AND NEVER ANSWER TO HER CRIMES oh my god I hate them so much
who was right in civil war enlightened one what was justified and what wasn’t
(Note: I wrote this in 40 minutes after getting out of urgentcare because I am a madlad. If there are any misspellings, discrepancies, or plot errors, I apologize in advance.)
So the biggest problem with identifying who is actually wrong in Civil War is that the script is kinda...bad.
Okay, listen.
The dialogue is pretty fantastic and everyone is in character. (For the most part.) But the conflict is mediocre at best and there are like five different storylines going at once that are supposed to parallel each other but do a really shoddy job of it.
I can't really say who was right, but I can for sure say who's side I would have been on.
Tony Stark's.
(I promise this isn't just because he's my favorite.)
So there are two main storylines that involve Tony Stark. Plot A) the Accords, and B) Bucky's whole thing. These two plotlines intertwine at certain intervals, especially the ending, but let's put a pin in that. Let's talk about the Accords first.
This is where a lot of the bad writing comes in. If you go to the MCU Wiki, it cites regulations such as wearing tracking bracelets and being thrown into prison without a trial. Here's the thing though...in CA:CW they don't mention any of these regulations even once. There is half the Avengers being thrown into the raft (which Tony breaks them out of), but the movie doesn't once cite a single regulation beyond the fact that 117 countries are trying to keep superheroes with potentially dangerous powers in check.
If they really wanted me to side with Steve on this one, they would have at least thrown something in there. At most, they just bring Thaddus Ross on screen as a kind of shorthand to prove that the Accords are corrupt, but this doesn't really hold any weight for someone who hasn't seen The Hulk or read the comics.
So the only argument they've got going is government bad=Accords bad, which...fair enough. But this movie is placed literally directly after Age of Ultron (which is another nightmare of a movie script), where it is firmly established that the Avengers making decisions on their own, without input from any higher officials, is historically a bad move.
Actually, let's back up, let's talk about the Avengers.
I don't really understand why they're still a thing after S.H.I.E.L.D. was disbanded. They aren't owned by any organization, they don't work for any organization, and they're not affiliated with any official government. Which means they can be viewed as vigilantes or terrorists, depending on how badly they botch up a mission. And considering how amazingly well Age of Ultron goes, I'm honestly not surprised that the United Nations wanted to put restrictions on them.
So -much to my chagrin-I'm actually on the government's side here.
What about the Avengers as a team?
Okay, so you have a Billionaire supergenius, a soldier from WWII with superpowers, two ex-S.H.E.I.L.D. agents, an Alien who sometimes shows up, and a scientist who turns into an uncontrollable rage creature. Adding onto that, they recruit two military veterans, a sentient robot, and the ex-nazi responsible for their last fuck-up.
If we take a look at their actual team dynamics, we have a group of people who are already split down the middle. Half the team is looking to Steve Rogers for leadership and the other half is trusting Tony Stark. These two men not only do not get along, but they don't get along to the extent that it affects how they work in a crisis. On top of this, said ex-nazi hates Tony Stark so hard that it- again- destroys an entire city and they decide to put her on the same team.
The Avengers have only had one successful onscreen mission (Avengers 2012) and that was more down to sheer luck than actually being capable of working together and carrying out a mission. They mention other missions they've been on at the beginning of Age of Ultron, but it's also noted that the collateral damage they've left in their wake was what spurred the UN into creating the Accords.
Not a great team.
So when people chalk Steve's entire argument down to the safest hands are our own, are they actually right? Should the world be entrusting their lives unquestionably in a team whose members should have been in therapy 6 movies ago (except for Rhodey and Sam, they get a pass).
Yeah hard pass, to be honest, I would have retired the team and restarted from scratch even before putting the Accords on the table. Which is why I am entirely on Tony's side because he is the more accountable between him and Steve. He tried it Steve's way in Age of Ultron, and it ultimately failed (that's another meta post for a different time). So now he's trying to keep the team together within the parameters that 117 different governments are clamoring for.
So my opinion on who was right? I lean more onto Tony's side.
Now what was justified?
Steve was justified in helping Bucky. I absolutely do not condone some of the things he did to protect him, but I can understand trying to help your best friend. It's a choice that I would make. I'm not one for saying the end justifies the means, but it's clear that Bucky was in trouble and that turning him in was a bad move. This is the one choice Steve made in Civil War that I absolutely approve of.
Tony was justified in his anger at Steve and Bucky and Bucky was not at fault for the death of Tony's parents. These two statements can and should coexist. I see a lot of people flipping out over Tony's reaction, but honestly? He's 100% justified. He just watched an incredibly traumatic tape of his mother dying with her murderer standing next to him. But that ain't what it was all about.
That's what this is about. Steve was the last person Tony could have even comprehended lying to him about something like this. It wasn't about whether or not Bucky was the killer (although that had to be upsetting). It was about Steve breaking his trust. His reaction is absolutely understandable and completely justified with this in mind.
Now what wasn't justified?
Every scene with Wanda in it, Sam putting blame on Tony for the raft situation, and Steve's worst apology ever letter. I could literally write separate metas on each of these, so all I'm gonna say is the narrative used Tony as a cope out to cause problems for other people. All of Wanda's problems (sans her parents' death, which actually wasn't Tony's fault) are caused by her own doing. All of Sam's problems were caused by his own doing. And Steve's letter was the shittiest apology I've ever read and makes me turn into a rage monster every time I think about it.
None of those things we're justified and I sigh every time I think about them.
Anyway, long story short, this movie is a dumpster fire trainwreck that either needed to go through several more drafts or should've just been tossed in the bin. Tony's motivations are far more reasonable and sympathetic, and I'm still mad at them for putting him and Bucky on opposite sides.
(Please feel free to shoot me more questions or to disagree. I love talking meta/analysis with others, and would be thrilled to hear y'all's opinions.)
Even if Tony was in the wrong (he wasn’t and let’s be real with enough time he could of changed accords he had the resources) itv doesn’t change the fact he went to them for peace and they went in for the kill. Sam used tea bullets on Peter, Steve dropped a crate on Peter not knowing his full strength, Wanda sent cars at tony and could of killed people in cross fire, Scott who nearly killed multiple people, Clint is the only one to hold back and was scolded by Wanda who could of broken Natasha’s neck by throwing her into metal. Not to mention if Tony hadn’t evacuated airport they would of done all that with civilians there. And that’s not even counting Steve using full strength on swat ( let’s be real they would be dead or critical) and Bucky collapsing a full tunnel and t’challa causing mayhem in public
One way that Peggy Carter’s “No, You Move” quote can be interpreted: in a society where institutions are patriarchal and misogynistic, a woman needs to be stronger than her male peers and refuse to concede her ground in workplace discrimination and sexism. if women do not stand up for themselves and for other women, then there will be no progress.
Another way that Peggy Carter’s “No, You Move” quote can be interpreted: as a woman who fought in WWII and continued to fight against HYDRA for her entire life, there are undeniably evil forces on earth and you cannot negotiate or agree with them in any way, because that is appeasement. if given the chance, these forces will destroy vulnerable and oppressed people for not meeting their standard of “normal” or “perfection.”
A way that Peggy Carter’s “No, You Move” quote SHOULD NOT BE INTERPRETED: a super-powered, American, straight, cis white man should willfully dismiss and disobey the will of the entire international community and a majority of public opinion, in order to stop himself from being regulated by the very people he claims to want to protect; thus, allowing him and his predominantly American super-powered team to enter any country they want for any reason.
Heroes In A Headlock @you-can-call-me-cold - Tumblr Blog | Tumgag
