That's What We're Building Here

Koli • 6 • Green • Painter • Roboticist • Umbrella Green

[failed-step-one]

So I just Citrus searched Aitim and it looks like he's blue? How does he have green brothers?

the twins are blue too, the other four are green

it’s like, kind of dubiously legal honestly but I can see how it happened knowing them?

their dad is green.  like really really green.  the green of greens.  his mom was green, but his dad is blue.  so like, this is the sort of thing where some parents might have spent half a season swapped into tapa and then back to get the kid legally green via lineality fudging, because he is so green that I am sure it was obvious when he was a winter baby if not sooner.  but they didn’t do that, so he was legally blue.  except he was like “no”.  and pretended to be green so hard that everyone just kinda went with it, and married a green lady, and had green kids on green credits.

except the first kid is blue.  like really really blue, the blue of - (you see where I’m going with this) and his blue grandpa was like “well TECHNICALLY”

makel telkam kantil and kefin are all cool being green (well, telkam kind of wants to be grey and kantil who is my brother in law kind of wants to be purple but those are not quite so much available) so they just are green

the twins would probably be okay if they had to be green but there was like already precedent for this guy’s kids picking since the first one, and they picked blue.  I think the difference in credit prices got kicked back to the government at some point so it is less dubious.

[steel-and-toe]

what is wrong with credit countries

[sacrificecode]

they have greens who think the rules don’t apply to them. you know, like permissions countries. and all other countries

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

Why do you hate greens? :( :(

[candle-in-a-coal-mine-blog]

I’ve been thinking of taking a bit of a vacation the next time Calla has some time off, anyone have recommendations for places that are nice this time of year?

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

Come to Miolee!

[candle-in-a-coal-mine-blog]

No.

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

):

[candle-in-a-coal-mine-blog]

I’ve been thinking of taking a bit of a vacation the next time Calla has some time off, anyone have recommendations for places that are nice this time of year?

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

Come to Miolee!

[openamenta]

home is where your heart is

[kindnessismandatory]

I am disturbed by the consistent reports from ex-reds that their morality did not change. I had hoped that perhaps this was because the reds had chosen unusually ethical reds to start– the same way that some reds are mesosensitive– because they didn’t want the first ex-reds to start riots and prevent the other reds from being cleaned. Maybe the smaller and more subtle change was harder to notice, I rationalized. 

But they have cleaned entire districts and the reports remain the same.

I desperately hope that a change in ethics is less obvious to introspection than one would expect. Otherwise, we have allowed a poison in our midst and I am afraid it will destroy us. 

[trees-are-greener]

We didn’t suddenly grow a moral sense because we already had one.

We didn’t riot just because we felt like it, we rioted because we had reason to believe our lives and our children’s lives were in danger. We didn’t take hostages for our own personal amusement, we took them because we were pretty damn certain we were all gonna die otherwise.

We’re not evil. We never were. We were just desperate and had no other resources to solve problems like “everyone hates us too much to let us live if they don’t need us anymore, and soon they’re not gonna need us”. No other caste has ever had to deal with that problem.

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

Don't roboticists make oodles of money?

Most of my green coworkers could afford a credit after two years if they saved smartly. I was only a roboticist for one year. I'm not sure how they managed to save that much, though? They all had nicer apartments than me, for example, but there's no way I'd get a credit in two years.

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

I just really want a baby of my own ): ): ): ): ):

[blackoutlandish]

The worst thing I have ever been tempted to do to the umbrella greens is put rocks in their packs. (I didn't. It wouldn't be nice, and it wouldn't help anything, but I did daydream about it for a minute.) And I assume you aren't going to go around "aww, lookit you acting like people! why do you want babies when you're all so brand new, anyway,"* so I really doubt anyone will be tempted to so much as over-pepper your food. (*I am exaggerating slightly but not by very much.)

I don’t intend to go around doing that but I have recently been almost exactly that wrong on the internet. Anyway it’s really more a matter of soothing her nerves than of actual rational calculation. don’t tell her i said that

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

I walk around saying “Hi, I’m Koli, I used to make robots!” and nobody has done anything to me! Ex-reds aren’t evil, there’s no reason they would want to hurt people (Especially not umbrella greens!)

[strawberry-poison-frog]

Yeah, one of the umbrellas asked me to help transcribe & translate some song lyrics, but she had also asked me If I wanted some help “fixing” my hair and so… I raised my prices.  

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

What was wrong with your hair?

[strawberry-poison-frog]

You’ve seen my videos, it’s a red puffball?

Does music professionally need not equal green hair!

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

Oh! I understand the quotation marks now. That was rude of her!

[blackoutlandish]

The worst thing I have ever been tempted to do to the umbrella greens is put rocks in their packs. (I didn't. It wouldn't be nice, and it wouldn't help anything, but I did daydream about it for a minute.) And I assume you aren't going to go around "aww, lookit you acting like people! why do you want babies when you're all so brand new, anyway,"* so I really doubt anyone will be tempted to so much as over-pepper your food. (*I am exaggerating slightly but not by very much.)

I don’t intend to go around doing that but I have recently been almost exactly that wrong on the internet. Anyway it’s really more a matter of soothing her nerves than of actual rational calculation. don’t tell her i said that

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

I walk around saying “Hi, I’m Koli, I used to make robots!” and nobody has done anything to me! Ex-reds aren’t evil, there’s no reason they would want to hurt people (Especially not umbrella greens!)

[strawberry-poison-frog]

Yeah, one of the umbrellas asked me to help transcribe & translate some song lyrics, but she had also asked me If I wanted some help “fixing” my hair and so… I raised my prices.  

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

What was wrong with your hair?

[blackoutlandish]

The worst thing I have ever been tempted to do to the umbrella greens is put rocks in their packs. (I didn't. It wouldn't be nice, and it wouldn't help anything, but I did daydream about it for a minute.) And I assume you aren't going to go around "aww, lookit you acting like people! why do you want babies when you're all so brand new, anyway,"* so I really doubt anyone will be tempted to so much as over-pepper your food. (*I am exaggerating slightly but not by very much.)

I don’t intend to go around doing that but I have recently been almost exactly that wrong on the internet. Anyway it’s really more a matter of soothing her nerves than of actual rational calculation. don’t tell her i said that

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

I walk around saying “Hi, I’m Koli, I used to make robots!” and nobody has done anything to me! Ex-reds aren’t evil, there’s no reason they would want to hurt people (Especially not umbrella greens!)

[coloursofthenight-deactivated]

[@a-cleaner-tomorrow] Why do your anons seem so convinced healthesick is a criminal? Is it because they think she's evil? Why do people keep thinking she's evil?

Well, she is evil. That’s not really in question. She’s a serial killer and does monstrous things to children, things that no one serious has believed are efficacious for years. Unfortunately, neither of those things is outright illegal, so she isn’t a criminal on those grounds. But I can’t blame anyone for wanting her to go down for something; so do I, I just have too much loyalty to the truth to agitate for a false charge.

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

She’s not evil! She just mistakenly thinks reds are. If there were evil people it would make perfect sense to kill them all, which is why it is very important to be very careful about accusations like that. (She is also probably making a mistake about NAT but I am not an expert on that)

Having loyalty to the truth is an important virtue for blues to have! You should try cultivating it more - you keep making false claims because you have not done your due diligence in checking them. Honesty is important, but it can be easy to focus too much on that and not enough on checking the accuracy of your own beliefs!

[coloursofthenight-deactivated]

A serial killer of evil people would still be a serial killer and an evil person themself. I stand by my claim regardless.

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

...no? Maybe for some definition of “serial killer” that makes all soldiers “serial killers,” but that really does not seem to be how that phrase is generally used. Is this a translation thing?

[coloursofthenight-deactivated]

[@a-cleaner-tomorrow] Why do your anons seem so convinced healthesick is a criminal? Is it because they think she's evil? Why do people keep thinking she's evil?

Well, she is evil. That’s not really in question. She’s a serial killer and does monstrous things to children, things that no one serious has believed are efficacious for years. Unfortunately, neither of those things is outright illegal, so she isn’t a criminal on those grounds. But I can’t blame anyone for wanting her to go down for something; so do I, I just have too much loyalty to the truth to agitate for a false charge.

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

She’s not evil! She just mistakenly thinks reds are. If there were evil people it would make perfect sense to kill them all, which is why it is very important to be very careful about accusations like that. (She is also probably making a mistake about NAT but I am not an expert on that)

Having loyalty to the truth is an important virtue for blues to have! You should try cultivating it more - you keep making false claims because you have not done your due diligence in checking them. Honesty is important, but it can be easy to focus too much on that and not enough on checking the accuracy of your own beliefs!

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

(Strawberry-poison-frog, in Anitami, equal status pronouns) I know I said this before, but you didn’t answer it. I don’t think it’s right for you to do robotics research-or raise any money for it-just yet. Looking at Anitam or Miolee, it’s easy to think that it’s all over. But if you read blogs by Blossoming-Camellia or other reds? It’s not over. They are not safe. Pease wait. Raise money for robotics research once they are here. (Also you will sell more paintings.)

[In-character this is answered privately @strawberry-poison-frog]

I think you are making a very understandable mistake here. Historically, clean castes have mostly treated reds very poorly, so it is understandable that you might think that in other countries they would keep doing that and maybe even kill them all once robots are developed. It’s really easy to look at people who are in a terrible situation with no good options and then conclude that they are evil when they pick a bad one. This is the same sort of mistake people like healthesick keep making about reds and ex-reds! But they’re wrong about that. And you’re wrong about clean castes. They aren’t evil, and the right solution to people lacking good options is to give them more options! We’ve done that with cleaning and someday soon we will do it with robots too.

[strawberry-poison-frog]

[the conversation continues privately]   

We understand evil and hard choices much better than you do.  They are killing reds now.  There are nations’ worth of reds that are not here.  My father?  Not here.  Evalee did not simply let us go.  The evidence says they need more than a better choice.  They need no other one.  

You came here to help protect living people, and that is very admirable.  I am glad you came. I would like you to consider the idea that until all are cleaned and the legal category of ‘red’ is abolished, robotics research puts lives at risk.  Not forever.  Just until Rivik’s reds are here.  That is all I am arguing.  

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

If you think anyone is fundamentally evil then I really do not think you understand evil better than me. Unfortunately, having to make hard choices does not usually help people be better at recognizing when others are trying to make the best out of a set of bad choices - if it did that would be great because blues choosing between bad options could probably recognize how reds have been forced to choose between bad options and would have been better at giving you good options sooner.

I think that a lot of countries are worried about winding up like Biyan or about hurting their purples by making the switch to the Olvalan method too quickly. If we had robots those countries would be more willing to move forward on red cleaning.

[strawberry-poison-frog]

I don’t know what it means to be ‘fundamentally’ evil.  I know that the grey who put that bakery worker through the glass is evil, and that’s enough.  (I’m very upset about that, there’s no point pretending I’m not.)

I think that red hate is not just some mistake.  It’s not a ‘bad’ choice, it’s an ‘evil’ choice, and it the caste system needs it.  Letting purples and greys take out their frustration on us makes them like the blues that exploit them.

But I think where we really disagree is that you think that governments will automatically make the ‘good’ choice if the good choice is available.  I don’t.  I think it is much more important to stop governments from making the ‘evil’ choice.  And since this is Miolee, the land founded by reds who had to kidnap people to get cleaned, I think I’m on firmer footing.

It’s good that countries are worried about winding up like Biyan.  That fear is protecting people.  If we had robots countries like Rivik would simply slaughter their reds.  Make robots something they get when everyone is safe.  

I am repeating myself now.  I just wanted to make sure you heard this.

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

Thank you for giving me your thoughts, and thank you for having so much patience with me! :) :) I know it can be really frustrating to argue with someone you have big disagreements with if neither party is likely to change their mind. Especially if it’s a matter of life and death! So thank you again for having the patience to put up with me, it must have been really hard :) :)

It looks like we are not going to constructively resolve whether or not people are evil, so I think we should end this conversation for now.

(P.S. - You are a caste abolitionist? I know that isn’t unusual in Miolee, but you specifically mentioned blues exploiting purples and greys, can you tell me more about what you think about that?)

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

(Strawberry-poison-frog, in Anitami, equal status pronouns) I know I said this before, but you didn’t answer it. I don’t think it’s right for you to do robotics research-or raise any money for it-just yet. Looking at Anitam or Miolee, it’s easy to think that it’s all over. But if you read blogs by Blossoming-Camellia or other reds? It’s not over. They are not safe. Pease wait. Raise money for robotics research once they are here. (Also you will sell more paintings.)

[In-character this is answered privately @strawberry-poison-frog]

I think you are making a very understandable mistake here. Historically, clean castes have mostly treated reds very poorly, so it is understandable that you might think that in other countries they would keep doing that and maybe even kill them all once robots are developed. It’s really easy to look at people who are in a terrible situation with no good options and then conclude that they are evil when they pick a bad one. This is the same sort of mistake people like healthesick keep making about reds and ex-reds! But they’re wrong about that. And you’re wrong about clean castes. They aren’t evil, and the right solution to people lacking good options is to give them more options! We’ve done that with cleaning and someday soon we will do it with robots too.

[strawberry-poison-frog]

[the conversation continues privately]   

We understand evil and hard choices much better than you do.  They are killing reds now.  There are nations’ worth of reds that are not here.  My father?  Not here.  Evalee did not simply let us go.  The evidence says they need more than a better choice.  They need no other one.  

You came here to help protect living people, and that is very admirable.  I am glad you came. I would like you to consider the idea that until all are cleaned and the legal category of ‘red’ is abolished, robotics research puts lives at risk.  Not forever.  Just until Rivik’s reds are here.  That is all I am arguing.  

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

If you think anyone is fundamentally evil then I really do not think you understand evil better than me. Unfortunately, having to make hard choices does not usually help people be better at recognizing when others are trying to make the best out of a set of bad choices - if it did that would be great because blues choosing between bad options could probably recognize how reds have been forced to choose between bad options and would have been better at giving you good options sooner.

I think that a lot of countries are worried about winding up like Biyan or about hurting their purples by making the switch to the Olvalan method too quickly. If we had robots those countries would be more willing to move forward on red cleaning.

[blackoutlandish]

Buckle up, kids, because it’s time to talk about everyone’s least favorite subject: pollution. Specifically, chronic pollution, but we’ll get to that in a minute. First, a bit of perspective:

If you’ve had the good fortune not to have had to interact with pollution to any significant extent, it can be tempting to just avoid thinking about it ever. Unfortunately, there are millions of people worldwide who don’t have that luxury.

Intentionally causing someone to be polluted is recognized by international standards to be a form of torture, and the use of pollution in warfare – that is, in a situation where it’s normal to shoot people on sight – is recognized as a war crime. Chronic pollution can leave victims mentally scarred for life; even after becoming clean again, conditions such as hyposensitivity and flashback syndrome can persist for years.

These are the stakes.

There are about 125 million people in the world today suffering from chronic pollution. That’s an eighth of a billion victims, subjected to literal torture every hour of every day. This is nothing less than the greatest amentan rights crisis of our generation.

About half (~60 million) of the victims are Biyani. They have been suffering for over two years now, and if you want to stop reading here I can’t blame you. Go and donate to Clean and Safe or the Biyan Emergency Relief Fund. I understand if you’ve had all you can stomach; it’s only going to get worse from here on out.

The other 65 million victims have it much, much, worse.

This is a hard fact to accept, but the science is clear: reds are people. They are born polluted and they die polluted; until the development of the decontamination process, they lived their entire lives not only being subjected to constant torture, but without even the hope of ever finding relief from it.

Nor does society treat them with the sympathy we would show to any other torture victims. They are despised, reviled, and forced to do the most degrading work imaginable. Their existence is an unfathomable abyss of suffering from which the mind naturally recoils. Even as I write this I find that I cannot force myself to truly contemplate the full horror of their situation.

We stand at a cusp in history: for the first time, it has become possible to relieve the suffering of reds, to rescue them from their misery and oppression, to give them the chance to finally be clean.

Please, give to support decontamination. I can imagine no more desperate need than this. You can donate online to Amentans for the Ethical Treatment of Reds or Red Rescue.

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

(Strawberry-poison-frog, in Anitami, equal status pronouns) I know I said this before, but you didn’t answer it. I don’t think it’s right for you to do robotics research-or raise any money for it-just yet. Looking at Anitam or Miolee, it’s easy to think that it’s all over. But if you read blogs by Blossoming-Camellia or other reds? It’s not over. They are not safe. Pease wait. Raise money for robotics research once they are here. (Also you will sell more paintings.)

[In-character this is answered privately @strawberry-poison-frog]

I think you are making a very understandable mistake here. Historically, clean castes have mostly treated reds very poorly, so it is understandable that you might think that in other countries they would keep doing that and maybe even kill them all once robots are developed. It’s really easy to look at people who are in a terrible situation with no good options and then conclude that they are evil when they pick a bad one. This is the same sort of mistake people like healthesick keep making about reds and ex-reds! But they’re wrong about that. And you’re wrong about clean castes. They aren’t evil, and the right solution to people lacking good options is to give them more options! We’ve done that with cleaning and someday soon we will do it with robots too.

[openamenta]

(@Concise-World-News) The Mioleen health service announced the birth of the nation’s first native-born citizen.  Mother Nion Kamelai, a construction foreman, and father Vaos Kamelai, a public works manager, welcomed baby Eason early this morning.  He is 48cm long, weighs 3.8kg, and is legally casteless.  His proud parents, grandparents, and extended family pooled resources to purchase his credit at Miolee’s first monthly auction earlier this year.     Baby Eason might not understand all the fuss, but he’s a cause for great celebration in this tiny equatorial country, founded by Evaleen ex-reds after the crisis earlier this year.  In the words of his mother:  “We didn’t think we’d live to have children.  That was our dream.  Now our dream is to give him a free and beautiful life.” Several other native-born Mioleens are expected to arrive before the end of the season.

[a-cleaner-tomorrow]

eeeeeee he's so cute! First miolee baby!