gay astarion

patrons of toxic yuri, committed to debunking "all characters are pansexual" allegations

[absolutehomosexuals]

🐉 Masterpost 🐉

A summary with links to all of our main takes and essays since we started this infamous journey, brought to you by the mods of the blog.

Astarion's Sexual Orientation:

I - Astarion's Gay Coding by Mod Orinthara and Mod Shadowzel

II - Astarion's New Evil Ending

Analysis of Ascended Astarion:

I - AA and Toxic Masculinity by Mod Shadowzel

Critique of BG3's Polyamorous Rep:

I - Original Post by Mod Orinthara and Mod Shadowzel

II - Halsin's Biphobic Portrayal by Mod Orinthara

The Matter of Playersexuality:

I - Original Post by Mod Shadowzel

Shitposting:

I - Astarion x Female Reader by Mod Shadowzel

II - Tag Yourself as De-Idealized BG3 Men by Mod Orinthara

III - Is Gale Homophobic? by Mod Shadowzel and Mod Orinthara

BG3 Villains:

I - Critique of "Platonic" Durgetash by Mod Orinthara

II - "The Dark Urge Is a Man" Essay by Mod Orinthara

III - Lesbian Orin by Mod Orinthara

Check the "answered" tag for further discussion on each take, where we reply to asks and elaborate, or send us an ask!

[absolutehomosexuals]

a bit late but happy new year! hopefully we'll be hearing again from you

Aw, both of us mods have been busy irl and we haven't talked much/played bg3 either lately, but we'll consider coming back when and if possible 💞 appreciate y'all

[absolutehomosexuals]

I know this blog is dead but I just wanted to say you’re a misogynistic cunt. Eat shit! :)

happy holidays! ^^

[absolutehomosexuals]

this blog has me ctfu like wdym "allegations"

It's used ironically babe 😭🙏🏻

[absolutehomosexuals]

This stuff is a bit old but have you seen this article?

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnlyFangsbg3/comments/1dndq2i/astarion_is_gay_coded/ (the link to the article is in the post)

I'm sending the link to the Astarion subreddit because some comments are absolutely hilarious lmao.

It's about the newest DA game but it's the Astarion mention that caught my attention:

Everyone being pansexual is also less progressive than it sounds. In Baldur's Gate 3, Astarion is a gay-coded man whose definitive romantic experiences prior to the game are with men. It could be argued that Astarion's gay experience has been erased for the benefit of straight women. I think the whole issue is a lot more complicated than that, but that's just one example of how 'everyone will sleep with you, hooray!' is not necessarily the only way to be progressive.

As you may have seen in the comments, the girlies are mad when being told the obvious. I love the one who says the biggest argument for Astarion being pan is the fact that Neil is romancing him with a woman and that he would never do something against his own character. LOL.

First of all the article ATE 🎀 lmaooo

People just don't seem to understand that VAs ≠ writers: voice actors give their own interpretation of a character, that is not inherently canonical and doesn't necessarily equate the writer's intention.

But even then, does it ever cross people's mind that it may not be that deep? Maybe he did romance Astarion with a female Tav because he sees his character as pan, but maybe he did it because customizing female characters is often more fun, and of course he'd romance the character he voiced on his first run.

[absolutehomosexuals]

What do you think of the theory that Larian didn't actively show/mentioned any woman as one of Astarion's former victims like they did with Sebastian/the darling boy because they didn't want to portray him as preying on innocent women? Some fans say it would've looked bad and would've painted him in a negative light so they decided to focus on men.

From a purely personal point of view, Astarion's relationship with both of these men was depicted as sincere and heartfelt, which made the aftermath twice as heartbreaking: he clearly feels guilty about betraying Sebastian and genuinely cared for him, while it seems like he loved the darling boy and hoped to escape with him.

I think they were treated with an adequate amount of nuance and sensibility, even if they were only mentioned, and I (someone who's usually critical of misogynistic subtext in media and women being used as props for male characters' development) wouldn't find it to be predatory or in bad taste if both or one of them was a woman.

However I'm no authority and each woman in the fanbase may have a different opinion.

It's not a good look to prey on gay/bisexual men either, as it's sort of Jeffrey Dahmer-esque when we think about it, so I don't see why Astarion couldn't have had both male and female (named, important, backstory-relevant) victims if his writer truly saw him as bisexual aside from game mechanics.

One could rightfully say "bi people don't have to have dated both men and women to be bi", but we're talking about a fictional character here, one that seems to be specifically coded as gay when marketing doesn't get in the way.

- mod Orinthara

[absolutehomosexuals]

you guys are alright but adding your goofy ass take on platonic durgetash or whatever to your masterlist is kind of funny. not a post that gives anyone a good impression of your analytical abilities.

Lmaoo, we thought it made sense to add it since it's somewhat related to our "durge is a man" essay, but it's not a deep enough topic that would require its own post with in-depth explanations given how minor it is in canon. Care to elaborate?

[absolutehomosexuals]

"So is BG4 going to be a thing? As far as we were aware, the creator stated they weren't going to develop a sequel, but it'd be amazing if they changed their mind 🙏🏻"

I should've been clear, I'm sorry! Yes, you are right! Larian said they are not going to make a BG4 nor will they change their minds. Whether or not BG4 will be a thing is up for WOTC to decide but frankly, given the success of BG3 I imagine they are going to cash in on the opportunity eventually. It's just that it will be made by another company instead of Larian...which is not very reassuring. Whatever happens I hope at the very least for a mention of Astarion being in a relationship with some guy, in the event he is mentioned at all. Can you imagine the tears from the girlies?

"We had no clue Astarion's female fanbase were called Astarionwives, but I (- mod orinthara) don't see how that would be misogynistic tbh! Vampire lords having multiple wives is a popular trope, and it's typically not represented as a degrading position to be in, even though that could be discussed."

Frankly, they would've probably embraced the moniker had it referred to the vampire lords having multiple wives trope, but it's obvious they are pissed because of the reference to the Snapewives, which is not something positive or to be proud of. The Snapewives were a bunch of mostly middle aged women in the Harry Potter fandom who genuinely believed they were in a romantic relationship with Snape and were meeting him on the astral plane, plus other unhinged shit including creating a religion around his persona.

I believe they began calling it misogyny mostly because it's a gendered term ("wives") that's unfairly singling out women. Yes, it is wrong to refer to all Astarion fans as Astarionwives (some of them are gay men) but most people who use it only do so when referring to the most unhinged part of his fanbase, which coincidentally enough consists of like ~99% women, most of whom only care about fucking the guy.

(in case you were wondering, yes, there are a few Astarion girlies out there who ship him with...themselves and pretend to be in a relationship with him)

"All of the fans who went insane about Astarion picking a man in this ending are homophobic, point blank, lmao. It's all "he's pansexual actually!!" "

One interesting thing about this ending is that in the devnotes they mention the man he picked is a noble. Now what I'm going to say further is my own interpretation but to me it looks like he does have a thing for noble men?

There is a party banter where Shadowheart asks him what type of blood he prefers and he answers with "young noble". In another party banter with again, Shadowheart, she ask him who would he bite out of everyone in the party and he answers with Wyll, who is of noble blood after all. Speaking of Wyll, he has several other remarks about him which may indicate some attraction.

As for the rest of the male party members, I don't remember him saying anything that stands out with Gale (they have a flirty banter in act 1 though) but what's funny is how he's one of the few who doesn't seem to be attracted to Halsin when even Wyll comments on his physique. I guess he's just not his type unlike others. Maybe I am biased here since I don't see the appeal of his ship with Halsin, they seem incompatible to me.

Now we don't know about the darling boy but Sebastian, given his rather fancy clothing, I wouldn't be surprised if he was of noble blood either.

If I may offer a suggestion, could you perhaps consider making a pinned post with a link to each of your most important analysis? It would help a lot and it would be easier to access an older post compared with going through the archive.

Since BG3 has so many different endings, I imagine there wouldn't be clear mentions of how the origin characters ended up, if BG4 became a thing: we'd probably get different companions as well, considering the previous game's endings were very divisive too.

But yeah, wouldn't that be objectively hilarious? 🫢

Jesus, people's obsession with the "shifting" trend is very concerning, especially because it seems like it mainly brainwashes young girls... or at least that's what I imagine the so-called Snapewives were doing. I wouldn't be surprised if some Astarion fans believed in that stuff as well, it seems to have resurfaced from the depths of 2020 tiktok lmao.

Oo absolutely, I've always seen Astarion as someone who fancies charismatic noblemen, and it's probably canon at this point.

He seems to dislike Halsin in my opinion as well, Astarion probably saw him as a glorified hippie when they first met. "enjOyinG thE fReedOm of NatURE's gIftS" 😭 – though I like when fanfictions explore a potential friendship between them, especially since they share similar trauma. If I recall correctly, Halsin was kidnapped and sexually enslaved by a couple of Drows before the game began?

Of course we can! We were already thinking of making a masterpost with links to our previous essays, we just never got around to it. It'll be done soon 🙏🏻

- mod Orinthara

[absolutehomosexuals]

Is your entire life centered around being misogynistic or do you have other hobbies?

Is your entire life centered around trolling or do you have other hobbies? 🤓

[absolutehomosexuals]

i love reading different takes on characters and you guys give me lots to chew on, so thank you for that. question! do you guys think of orin as a lesbian? its a favourite interpretation i have of her. <3

We also see her as a lesbian 👀 there aren't any specific sources or in-game reasons so I guess any interpretation is possible, we simply think it's fitting, especially given her whole situation with Minthara.

"Mod Orinthara" is answering this one, so I might be a little biased hahah

While the situation between them obviously wasn't healthy and had a huge power imbalance, to the point Minthara seeks revenge once she's free and even asks you to kill Orin, we think Orin's fascination with Minthara was sort of endearing (in her own twisted way, of course).

She literally kidnaps Minthara during a banquet, leaving her the only survivor of her carnage, pointing to her and going "I want her"? After slitting all of her soldiers' throats in a sort of alluring little dance?

What is this, a Bhaalist seduction ritual? 😭😭

Not to mention Orin tadpoles Minthara to make her believe she's infatuated with her, manipulates her into admiring her and keeps her as a prisoner? For what?

The fact you can ask Minthara if Orin is an old flame of hers, and she doesn't deny it in the slightest (only saying "you don't need to worry about it")??

Orin is definitely a lesbian. Larian Studios are just cowards atp /hj

[absolutehomosexuals]

Thank you for reaffirming what I’ve thought about Durge regarding gender. I was curious, aside from the default white dragonborn, what race do you think fits a Durge run best?

That's a great question, actually!

I've always played the same Durge during my runs, but I had personalized him based on my aesthetic tastes alone without giving much thought to lore ; he looked great as a half wood elf lmao, but I can't justify it with actual reasons 🫡

I still think half elf is a great choice, though! Regardless of subrace, they're known to be versatile and charismatic, which are useful qualities for anyone who has to cover a leadership role. Durge is meant to be an assassin lore wise (I have my qualms about Larian making default Durge a sorcerer, but I can sort of see their vision) and half elf rogues are especially powerful.

Human is clichè, but it makes a lot of sense, and gives him enough NPC vibes to blend in Baldurian society without arousing much suspicion + it'd be a tribute to Bhaal's human origins. Also works well for any class gameplay-wise.

I feel like other races (sometimes negatively) stand out too much in the city's context, so I wouldn't pick them if I were Bhaal lmao, while they can still be great in combat depending on the class you pick.

I guess there aren't any major reasons for an elf Durge not to exist, but it somehow looks "out of context" to me: there are all sorts of elven deities and faiths in-universe already, and I can't see an elf symbolizing the cult of murder specifically.

- mod Orinthara

[absolutehomosexuals]

I don't know who will make BG4 but they do have the biggest opportunity to stay true to what is actually shown in the current story and finally confirm that yes, Astarion IS gay. No more playersexuality bullshit. Imagine the meltdowns from all the Astarionwives (and I don't say this as a misogynistic dog whistle, I know some get VERY sensitive when hearing this term because of the "-wives" thing but I guess they probably don't know about the Snapewives).

By the way, below are the links to the evil endings the other anon was talking about which made several girlies from that insane subreddit of theirs quite angry and jealous because why would they show another man??? In fact, it's WORSE for them because the scene actively shows Astarion rejecting (!!!!) a woman and going for a man instead. LMFAO.

AA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u51-BHFs_Ig Spawn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS8cOqms_XY Both versions of him have the same ending and it's from their origin playthrough. For example, DJ Shadowheart and Selunite Shadowheart have the same evil ending as well: both will renounce Shar or Selune and found a new church in her own (Shadowheart's) name.

So is BG4 going to be a thing? As far as we were aware, the creator stated they weren't going to develop a sequel, but it'd be amazing if they changed their mind 🙏🏻

We had no clue Astarion's female fanbase were called Astarionwives, but I (- mod orinthara) don't see how that would be misogynistic tbh! Vampire lords having multiple wives is a popular trope, and it's typically not represented as a degrading position to be in, even though that could be discussed.

The new endings are very cool, I'd love to replay BG3 sometime to try them out! Though they're mostly evil endings, and I always find it hard to carry an evil playthrough to term, as I get too attached to the origin characters and only want the best endings for them 😭 I could be talked into giving Shadowheart's new evil ending a shot, starting her own cult is such an interesting storyline.

All of the fans who went insane about Astarion picking a man in this ending are homophobic, point blank, lmao. It's all "he's pansexual actually!!" until his attraction to men is treated seriously and actually shown on-screen, instead of being mentioned here and there, so you can conveniently forget about it in a M/F playthrough.

[absolutehomosexuals]

Thanks for the answer! I agree with you. I haven’t played it either but here’s the video with this ending

https://youtu.be/u51-BHFs_Ig?si=K_z6e-JGdjU9ImAh

Omg can we talk about how BRILLIANT the graphics are in this one? 😭😭 the aesthetics are stunning, and yeah, it definitely solidifies our stance on gay Astarion.

There's no way it wasn't intentional on Larian's side, there was no lore reason to put it in, aside from the fact they wanted to show Astarion picking a man over a woman as his "treat" now that he's free of all social influences.

[absolutehomosexuals]

I’ve read your posts about sexuality. I’ve always found it interesting that Astarion’s writing shows only homosexual aspect.

After the release of patch 7 I saw someone complaining that larian was supporting “gay Astarion propaganda” (lol) with the new evil ending when he chose man over woman. I immediately remembered Hexxat from bg2 who was a lesbian and preferred women’s blood.

Do you think this scene has a meaning? Why did they do that, just by accident, on purpose to show his preference, or maybe for fanservice?

PS Your thoughts on narrative, subtext and problematic topics are interesting and refreshing to read.

Surprisingly, I've heard about this scene but I've never seen it first hand as I'm not up to date with Larian's newest content (irl commitments are getting in the way of replaying bg3 😭), so if you'd like to send us a link we'd be very grateful!

As for first impressions based on the rumors I've read about, I think Larian has made it overwhelmingly clear they see Astarion as predominantly (if not exclusively, but they can't say it outright for marketing reasons, as Astarion has a huge female fanbase who loves to romance him) attracted to men.

They jump at every opportunity to show him hinting at his attraction to men, only ever displaying genuine M/M relationships in his backstory, acting in a stereotipically gay fashion and only ever including some token (and arguable) attraction to women as an afterthought to justify playersexuality.

Which, as you've seen from our "gay Astarion" analysis, could be easily passed off as him pretending for his own benefit in-universe or having a skewed perception of his sexuality because of trauma.

So really, it doesn't surprise us lol! And we're having a field day with it already :)

We could also say Ascended Astarion is, while evil and unhealthy, the version of Astarion who feels like he's all-powerful and invulnerable: for him to show such power by openly displaying his attraction to men, thus strongly reclaiming and displaying his sexuality (an aspect he was stripped of while he was a spawn), could be the ultimate proof of his homosexuality.

He doesn't have to appease to anyone anymore, let alone the women he could potentially manipulate through seduction or the people who could be prejudiced against him, and he can simply give into the hedonistic and instictive side of his personality.

Larian could've avoided putting that scene in, but they didn't, so it definitely has meaning lol.

- mod Orinthara

[absolutehomosexuals]

Thank you for making your posts, I always check their likes and reblogs and they always help me find people I should probably rather block in advance! 💖

LMAOO we don't understand whether this was meant as a compliment or an insult, but good on you regardless

[absolutehomosexuals]

question about the durge essay, why does it matter? this is meant in good will. a lot of customizable protagonists are probably made with men in mind and i just don't get why it's worth putting effort into writing a thing about.

No worries!

We actually didn't mean to criticize people who play with a female Durge or anyone who has a different interpretation, it was simply a thought we've always had since we started playing the game and we were shocked to find out the huge majority of bg3 fans didn't catch up on the subtext, essentially stripping the storyline of its meaning.

A lot of customizable protagonists are made with men in mind, that might be true, but we've noticed how "out of place" a female Durge seems during gameplay and narration.

[absolutehomosexuals]

Hi! Just wanted to say I’m really enjoying this blog and have even re-evaluated the way I look at bg3 characters. The people who are upset with the things you’re posting should put down the proverbial pitchforks and touch grass. :)

Thank you so much anon! 😭💕

Claiming our posts have been able to make you think about the way you view bg3 characters is really high praise :)