November, 1983: In his interview with DJ Roger Scott, Paul has less than favorable things to say about Beatles biographer Philip Norman, and gets heated about Normanâs insinuations re: Johnâs sexuality.
PAUL: Philip Norman is the same kind of â or Norma Philips, as I prefer to call her â is the same thing, really. âCause I met him at a reception, Guinness Book of Records thing, and he said, âIâm doing a book, Paul, and Iâve talked to all the kind of people up in Liverpool, Bob Wooller and all of them,â and I said, âYeah, oh, great,â you know. And I didnât really like the look of him. I didnât think he â he would have a great thing. He didnât seem like the man to me, to go and do the big story. So I had a lot of stuff on, and I, um, wasnât keen to be interviewed by him â as the others werenât, either. Nobody agreed to be. So he turned it all âround and tried to do that clever thing at the end of his book he says, âUnfortunately, I asked to see The Beatles but they wouldnât see me, but I think â and people have told me â Iâve got a better book because of it.â
Itâs rubbish, you know. Heâs taken some very accurate moments, and written them well, because heâs probably quite a good writer â heâs Sunday Times and all that, he better had be â so heâs got a little bit of class attached to his name. So people tend to believe anything thatâs the Sunday Times is generally â you just believe it, because itâs the Sunday Times, you know. âItâs not like the Sun, love.â Itâs all that, you know. Heâs a respectable writer. And he just put some stuff in there that is just crazy, you know. But the thing is, itâs â itâs couched, uh, or itâs â itâsâ
SCOTT: Itâs written so well.
PAUL: Itâs â itâs set â itâs written very well, itâs written very cleverly, and itâs also set in a lot of true facts. Occasionally, this little fact like, you know, virtually, heâs got â well, I mean, Brian Epstein, that hitman, mafia [associations]? Well I think thatâs a load of crap. I really do. I donât know where heâs got it from, and the evidence is all about the merchandising set up in the book or something. I just think heâs made it up.
SCOTT: Itâs more about the myths. More of it is myths. Â
PAUL: I think itâs sensationalism. And I really do think itâs myths. And I do think all this stuff⊠âJohn was gay.â Right? Thatâs in the book. I â I just think theyâre old fruits, these guys. Theyâre just old fruits, and theyâre out to make a buck. John â and I know exactly where heâs got it from. When the group was being formed, John was a smart cookie. Brian Epstein was going on holiday to Spain, and Brian was gay. Brian was going on holiday, and Brian invited John along. John, not being stupid, saw his opportunity to impress upon Mr. Epstein who was the boss in this group. And I think thatâs why John went on holiday. Itâs since â and I think good luck to him, too, âcause you know, he was that kind of guy â he wanted Brian to knowâ [audio glitch] ânot always, but he was â he was into that kind of stuff. And so now, this fellaâs just decided to say, âOh, well, he went on a holiday with somebody who was known to be gay, and therefore I think heâs gay.â [pause] I mean, I donât know what to make of it, myself. I mean, I knew John forâ Â
SCOTT: [commiserating] Oh, who cares.
PAUL: Well, who cares, I suppose, yeah. I mean, well â I care, âcause as much as, like⊠[distracted] All I care about is that if he isnât, then itâs a naughty [on Normanâs part]. I mean, if John was â the trouble is, see, is heâs not here to fend for himself, and we canât ask him, ââScuse me, John, are you â have you ever been gay?â I mean, heâs the kind â I remember people used to ask that. There were lots of people asking cheeky questions, and they were always saying, âWell, why â have you ever tried homosexuality, John?â You know, they always used to ask all that kind of stuff. I remember John saying to them, âNo, Iâve never met a fella I fancy enough.â And that was his kind of opinion. You know, âI may go â I may be gay one day, if some fella really turns me on.â He was â he was that open about it. But as far as I was concerned, I slept in a million hotel rooms, as we all did, slept in a million places with John, and there was never any hint of it. So I suspect that itâs just a â itâs just something to sell a book. The guy will say that Iâm a hopeless romantic, and Iâm naive, and Iâm an idiot, and Iâm cloaking stuff behind this mask of secrecy, and Iâve got a great front and Iâm really a wicked person behind it. But you know, you can say all that stuff, but I just donât think itâs true. I think he just made it up.