1,6,7,9,14 🧂🧂🧂
From @starlyht
Salty Asks Meme
What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get?
You know what, I was talking about Star Wars. You know what pairing I actually don't like from Star Wars?
I blame this mostly on George Lucas being a terrible romance writer. However, I've noticed there's also a slight creep/ chauvinism factor to Harrison Ford's acting/ blocking in romance scenes that adds to it. It's in a lot of his other movies, I'm not going to pull up the receipts, and I'm not going to necessarily blame him, but it's just a Thing.
The Han/ Leia kiss scene in Empire Strikes Back is so uncomfortable. Because it is Han slowly backing Leia into a corner while insisting that she actually does like him even as she says no, recedes away, and then, finally relents to his advances. It's also frustrating how the movie just assumes they're in love and so does Han. Who, by the way, starts the movie claiming that Leia loves him and acting like a jilted lover that she's not paying 100% attention to him in the middle of a siege. This is fairly uncharitable reading of the text, honestly, but it still stands.
I think it's part of a broader problem that Leia's character has in Star Wars where the movie (and probably Carrie Fisher) really wants her to be the badass rebel leader (which she is), and yet, the text itself is constantly fighting her (read: George Lucas). So, instead of having a real arc in ESB, her arc is just... falling in love with Han Solo, the creepy guy who backs her into corners, and argues with her. It doesn't help half of RTJ (the resistance plot) is terrible and the other half (the force plot) is great.
And Han and Leia are stuck in the horrendous B-Plot.
6. Has fandom ever made you enjoy a pairing you previously hated?
I didn't give two shits about Rauru and Sonia when I first watched the TotK cutscenes. They came off as fairly bland, Dude Guy and Mature and Emotionally Aware Wife, couple. I think in general the problem is that both of their arcs are a swing and a miss. Rauru mentions that he was 'arrogant' in how he handled Ganondorf, but the game doesn't really define what he did wrong that made Ganondorf kill Sonia.
(I don't mean in the sense of 'keeping Ganondorf close,' because consider its opposite. What could Rauru have done that wasn't arrogant (if keeping Ganondorf close was arrogant)? Kill Ganondorf right away instead of waiting? Ganondorf, as far as Rauru should know, has done nothing wrong. That's hardly an option. What I'm saying is that in the text itself, Rauru hasn't acted particularly arrogant).
Sonia also lacks any real meat to her character in-game and is unceremoniously killed off for Rauru's angst. Particularly annoying is the scene where Rauru is meeting with Ganondorf and she is completely silent despite Ganondorf's almost lecherously eyeing her up. Her whole 'arc' screams, "I AM A PLOT DEVICE." Which is its own rant by the way.
However, I warmed-up to both of these characters once I hit fandom because fandom, despite my general opinion of it, does make things better.
For example, Rauru's arrogance is the very act of inviting Ganondorf into Hyrule because what he is doing is imperialism. That puts so much more meat and bones on the plot. Instead of Ganondorf just being evil for the sake of it, there is actually a reason for his actions. Rauru is cast by legend as the heroic king but in practice, in history, he is the man who came down from the heavens, colonized the Hylians, and attempted to imperialistically conquer Hyrule. The fact that he is treated as a 'good person' means that he's deliciously complex.
Sonia is more than just Nice Wife Lady #4817. She actually has character and motivations, and I also realize that there's a small, subtle but fun dynamic with Sonia and Rauru. Where Rauru intellectualizes things and over thinks it, and Sonia just intuitively knows it, and then smacks Rauru to get out of his head. I think she should do that more. Also, I'm looking forward to the Salt Portrayal of Sonia where Ganondorf does not get to kill her in the stupidest way possible and instead she kicks the shit out of him, as she deserves.
Anyway, what I'm saying is that all of my friends have done a great job with these characters, and I love writing with them.
7. Is there anything you used to like but can’t stand now?*
I've become less fond of redemption arc Ganondorf over the years.
Back in the day, Hero Dorf was all I wanted but now I've kind of fallen back in love with Villain Dorf.
I think giving Ganondorf a redemption arc or making him a good guy was a knee jerk, fandom reaction, to how unforgivably evil this guy is. in OoT he is constantly fucking things up, messing with you, and hurting people. Which fits because Ganondorf is supposed to be the character backstory for Ganon, evil pig man. Then, in Wind Waker and Twilight Princess he's just as brutal. Hell, in WW he: chokes-out Tetra, beats the crap out of Link, and back hands Tetra. He's such a stinky bastard man and I love him.
A lot of fanon has latched onto his monologue in Wind Waker as foundation for sympathy. He cared about his people; he was envious of Hyrule's prosperity. However, I think they miss a key point of the speech: which is the complete absence of the Gerudo. Ganondorf doesn't say he wants the triforce to revive the Gerudo, he says he wants the triforce so he can have Hyrule. The core of Ganondorf's character is his ambition to rule the world. Which isn't all that 3D but it is delightful to have a villain that you can truly hate. He's just a bad dude.
However, fanon has tried to course correct too hard. So, instead of Ganondorf being envious of Hyrule because he desires the power of the triforce (the actual implication of his WW monologue) it's because the King of Hyrule was stingy with the resources of Hyrule while the Gerudo squandered in the desert. Even though in OoT, until Ganondorf actively assaulted Hyrule and killed the King, the Gerudo and Hylians actually seemed to be on good terms? Of course, there's more that can be dug into and explored with the Hyrule/Gerudo relationship but...
I don't know, I don't think the solution to Ganondorf's character is to say, "see he's not evil! It's actually the Hylians who were evil!" Ganondorf 100% did things in Ocarina of Time that earned him his fate in Twilight Princess and Wind Waker. Beyond even just killing the King of Hyrule like: killing the Deku Tree, blocking the Gorons off from their food source (the implication being a famine), and making Lord Jabu-Jabu sick. And that's all before the time skip. Regardless of his motivations there is not quibbling that he does bad things.
He is a brutal, vicious man who will do whatever is necessary to get what he wants, and what he wants is power for his own purpose, even if it means hurting other, innocent people.
But, and I think a lot of the fanon misses this, that does not mean he's a villain. Which means Ganondorf can have a sympathetic backstory and sympathetic motivations, and yet, still be a complete dick about it. His end is good but his means are evil.
I think that's better than the "Ganondorf is actually good, Hyrule is actually evil" hot take and the "Ganondorf is actually just good." It keeps not just his characterization in tact but also the rest of the cast.
But I've been really loving all the Evil Dorf on my dash recently.
9. Most disliked character(s)? Why?
You know what? I don't care for Sidon.
There's nothing really interesting about him. He's just a somewhat enthusiastic fish guy that the fanon lusts over because they're all monster fuckers. There was absolutely nothing in Breath of the Wild that made me go, "wow, this is engaging me." He just drags you up to the domain so you can fix the problem for his fish people. He's not even as fun as Kaz, who is a sexy bird guy who shows up and sings for you. Like, c'mon.
I get that he has something of an arc in Tears of the Kingdom but I haven't played the game besides watching the cutscenes so I don't care about that. I do find it funny though that Nintendo specifically gave Sidon a fiance as a middle-finger to all the rabid fish fuckers in the fandom that ship Sidon with Link. It's such a moot point about whether or not Sidon has a wife, and yet, I have seen numerous posts about how pissed people are that he does.
Meanwhile, us Kaz Fuckers have always been a-okay with the wife... Kaz has two wings.
14. Unpopular opinion about your fandom?
I'm so tired of the reincarnation trope.
Sick of it. Like how when you buy a full size candy bar or a really big hamburger, it's good for the first bite-or-two, but by the end you're like, "this was too much." What I'm saying is that it has been well over a decade and the LoZ fandom is actively still using the reincarnation trope even though there is no reason to believe that it is canon, nor does it make sense with canon.
For Zelda, it makes no sense because they're all related to each other. They are all explicitly related to each other. So, are you telling me that any given Zelda is actually reincarnation of her mom/ grandma? At what point in your life do you get your mom's soul? How does this even work? Do only some Zelda's get the Zelda Soul? Isn't it way more simple to say that 'Zelda' is a character who inherits mystical powers from her bloodline?
With Link it's just... bad writing? Oh, every Link is just a reincarnation of every other Link. So, a character that has nothing explicitly special about him, who is written as the Guy who takes up the sword against evil, actually does have something special to him and is merely following fate.
With Ganondorf, it's just not there. Every Ganondorf besides TotK Ganondorf is the same Ganondorf. Then, as far as we can tell, TotK Ganondorf has nothing to do with OoT Ganondorf. They just have the same name.
My real problem is that this doesn't allow the characters to be their own characters. So, Zelda isn't Princess Zelda in a particular time-place but is the reincarnated soul of Princess Zelda from eons past who... blah, blah, blah, it's boring. Link isn't the Guy who Took Up the Sword, he's the Spirit of the Hero which will edge out the actual Guy in there and become the bland hero of whatever. Ganondorf keeps reincarnating into the Gerudo who, for some reason, keep naming their kids Ganondorf.
But what makes Zelda, Link, and Ganondorf interesting, is that each game tells its own story of that particular generation's crisis, and them overcoming evil. They are their own people, in their own time-and-place, and while the themes, stories, and archetypes repeat and are similar, they are at least still unique. When you rely so heavily on reincarnation as a trope, the story is not about today but the generations, eon spanning cycle of good-and-evil, or whatever. Anyway, the number of fanfictions I've read which completely lose all drama because of the characters bickering about their past lives is way too many and it needs to stop.
Speaking of which, I hardly even like the 'cycle' theory in the fandom anyway. Because, again, it undercuts the story of each game as being it's own, and whole stories can get consumed with this idea. The idea behind Demise's Curse is that his hatred of Zelda and Link manifests as a curse on their bloodlines, which plagues them and Hyrule. Even if you remove Zelda and Link from the equation, evil would still come to Hyrule. Because that's just how evil works. So, each generation must confront evil in their own time (you know, just how we have to in real life).
So much of the theme of Legend of Zelda is reckoning and overcoming the sins of the past. I would much rather a story where Link and Zelda must learn about the mistakes of their ancestors, and rectify them now to defeat evil, in their own time. Instead of... Link and Zelda who are reincarnations of a past Link and Zelda, getting another go at defeating the evil they failed to beat the first time.
Anyway, if I have to read, "I don't remember my past life very well," coming out of Zelda's mouth one more time in a fanfic I'm gonna lose it!