still iron grows anew ,

ttgot has bewitched me and is making it everyone’s problem

[asherforrester]

LAMB , 22 ♡ any pronouns ♡ ironraths .

welcome to my sideblog for telltale's game of thrones & grrm’s a song of ice and fire! i’m a decade ( & more ) late but i’m here nonetheless. on this blog you’ll find rambles, musings, art, writing, and whatever else tickles my fancy! feel free to send in asks <3 my ass loves to chat!

currently reading : asos, fire & blood, and a knight of the seven kingdoms !!

fic links under readmore :

the ground we walked gave way. 1,596 words | malcolm & asher centric | pre-canon

patron saints of wandering women. 2,186 words | elissa/catelyn femslash | pre-canon

one more tear, another tally. 2,579 words | asher/beskha exploration | pre-canon

[asherforrester]

the way i posted that and then immediately drew perhaps my favorite talia i’ve done … smh

[asherforrester]

another ttgot sketch dump, since i’ve traded writing for drawing as of late! most of these are from yesterday + today, minus the josera/elsera’s mother musings and miss talia branfield

[archoness-archive-blog-deactiva]

“Our Houses were close once and could be again. So much of our history has been lost.”

— Gwyn Whitehill

[lambjock]

thinking about ludd whitehill … who dare i say is such a strong presence in-game and is more well written than most characters

[lambjock]

the thing about ludd is that he may be a hasty man but he’s infinitely more clever than most of the men in ttgot by half, and is equally opportunistic as well.

and the thing about that little trait is that gwyn also shares ludd’s opportunistic hunger and similarly uses the new status quo of things to try and strongarm the forresters into the peace she’s always desperately wanted, because now it’s ‘the only hope your family has’.

the thing about ludd is that, for all of ludd’s theatrics ( as he does enjoy behaving like a spectacle to some degree ), he is always very aware of everyone else’s buttons and just what he can and cannot get away with. it’s important that you see him act so abhorrently and crudely before ethan, whom to him is a sensitive little boy instead of a lord, but he immediately changes tactics upon elissa’s entrance -- and when he addresses her losses, there is a sincerity there that he purposely withheld from ethan during his mock condolences. similarly, he is constantly badgering asher about his father, how much his father hated him and so on, yet refuses to bring up either rodrik or ethan to him. in fact, he even brings ryon to sway asher out of an attack and gives him rodrik’s corpse to placate him … because, to some degree, ludd knows he can push the gregor button for asher, but that anything regarding his siblings, dead or otherwise, is less of a button and more of a trigger.

and the thing about ludd’s rather keen nature, is that his begrudging willingness to enslave the forresters rather than wipe them out totally is interesting, as it’s an idea of his daughter’s that he tries to see to fruition -- and is him knowing that sole production of the ironwood is not only impossible for house whitehill, but potentially dangerous for them as well seeing as their lacking performance is disappointing to the boltons’ demands.

the thing about ludd is that his biggest humanizing factor comes from the love both gwyn and gryff seem to have for him : gwyn, who is a defiled, unwed daughter that constantly challenges ludd’s plans, and gryff, who was unlikable by even his own blood for killing the love of ludd’s life. they are not ludd’s heir nor his most renowned children, and yet they hold him highly and are held highly by him in turn. it goes without saying that most northern parents would not afford children such as gwyn and gryff much grace.

[asherforrester]

#ttgot #telltale game of thrones #very good analysis #ludd's actions are rather layered in the finale. he enters combat with rodrik or says he'll break bread with asher but hates the latter mor #the way he treats asher's body if rodrik lives is vile. maybe getting to kill asher gave ludd a fleeting high that he then kept chasing? #whereas he wins either way out of proposing peace to asher. asher bites the hand that feeds? ludd gets gwyn “back” forever #asher submits? divide and conquer. ludd seems to know that asher's family judge him more for gwyn than he judged gwyn for asher #and that this would be taken up to eleven if asher is paying the price of his own autonomy to marry (side note: asher mira ep 6 parallel) #so if ludd planned on making asher have a little accident after the marriage - asher would first be isolated from his family and smallfolk #i like how mira walks in men dominated spaces while asher has feminine themes in his story. he's seen as “hysterical”. wedding = surrender #the gender flip even. mira starts swinging and attacking morgryn vs asher drawing on emotional regulation to feign compliance #“you will be a slave to produce heirs” = breakdown of feudal contract/privilege. they both react against their gender conditioning. god

hope you don't mind me rambling about your tags! they were just too good not to touch on a bit.

ludd getting a high from killing asher is certainly a possibility. i do think there’s a layer of ‘winning’ there, one that’s more irrefutable than anything else he’s done so far -- as well as ludd finally getting to do to asher what he’s likely been desiring to do since his and gwyn’s affair, a justice that was ‘robbed’ of him ( something he is similarly angry about over gared, albeit that was less genuine and way more about scheming on his end ). however, i’ve also viewed it as ludd underestimating rodrik -- he isn’t expecting retaliation from a cripple, and has repeatedly disrespected rodrik in a way he hasn’t since ethan. going back to the ‘ludd is keenly aware of people’s buttons and what he can push without consequence’ trait, i think this is that but tenfold. whereas ludd might be more cautious of a full-bodied rodrik ( who had a fearsome reputation during the war, and was a capable heir besides ), he is well aware that rodrik is now incapable of doing anything by his lonesome, and first witnesses him as fresh off the bed, hobbling and severely weakened. it’s why his pushing is more apt. ludd wouldn’t think to ask a man capable of holding his sword to kneel and kiss his shiny ring, as the insult would be too grave for a northern lord to take, but he’d ask a cripple who is physically and politically disadvantaged to kneel and kiss it. there is also the irrefutable sick pleasure ludd derives from humiliating rodrik ( a forrester ) as well -- which, to bring it back to what you said, is a sort of thrill i think he's been repeatedly fueling himself with, to the point of impulsivity. in rodrik’s route i think a lot of ludd’s typical smarts and cautiousness has dropped due to this ‘high’, because i don’t think ludd has understood the consequences of some of his actions, such as betraying gwyn so severely : i doubt ludd realizes he might’ve just lost his only daughter forever with that move, not only because of asher’s body but with the despicable use of ryon, who was practically gwyn’s ward. he has spent much of this war trying to appease her, and would continue to do so for the rest of his life had it not been for opportunity and his win being in sight. as we know from asher's route, ludd is more likely to spare gwyn's feelings if he can, as his potential plan for an 'accident' involving a submitting asher would wash his hands clean of hurting or betraying her, technically, and he can keep her content while ridding himself of an asher completely at his mercy. his utter brutality towards asher's corpse, however, just goes to show that if he gets his catch, he's likely to shake his prey around first before thinking. gwyn's biggest blind spot is not realizing that her father's rather fierce love for her does not outweigh the hatred and cruelty he possesses for all else :

but gwyn's faith in ludd does come from somewhere, and i think the dichotomy of ludd's self that his children see and the version of ludd everyone else gets is fascinating, and ultimately makes ludd feel fully formed unlike some other characters. he's a tangible, real man unlike gregor and gregor's mysticism. you see many different sides of him throughout ttgot and most of it's abhorrent, annoying, and bad ... yet the rare few 'good sides' afforded to him allows him to not quite just be the evil, 'i love killing people' tyrant the forresters see him as being.

all in all, i just love ludd's character. i find him, gryff, and gwyn much more interesting and humanized upon replays. while i'm not sure of the intentionality of house whitehill's writing ( after all, every whitehill soldier is just outright evil, lol ) i think the subtle strokes of storytelling, voice acting, and expressions are strong with them nonetheless. they're the bad guys, indeed! and i side with house forrester on everything regarding them! but, still. ludd's evilness is less cartoonish than it appears. the asher's head thing is by far the worst thing he does all game, and that implies he was acting within limits before, and was either content to do so or could and would grit his teeth through these limits if it was an arguably better outcome.

but, also, i could not help but grow unbelievably excited about your tags and excellent analysis about mira’s and asher’s parallels in terms of their gender. i fear i’m going to sound incoherent but, yes! a thousand times, yes! exactly. i’ve always thought about asher’s feminization via the text as well as mira’s masculinity too. i don’t think the game could make asher’s more female role in ep6 more obvious than having both morgryn and gwyn hold and proposition their would-be wife/husband in this very way :

while there’s no closeup of asher’s and gwyn’s hands, you can clearly see gwyn doing as morgryn did : taking asher’s limp hand and sandwiching it between her own, cradling him as she asks for him to choose marriage over whatever he’s planning. it has always screamed as a reversal of gender to me … and speaks to gwyn’s subtle masculinity as well ( vying for a power akin to lordship, although she’s much more subtle than mira could hope to be ).

but, regardless of the hopefulness of the asher-gwyn ending, it’s indeed true that both of these avenues are painted to be kneejerk choices, and rather unwise ones in the moment. asher and mira are both told that this marriage is solely for claiming ironrath through them, and whatever heirs they can provide, with their personhoods being reduced to their claims and their womb/seed. mira is promised a life of chains and elissa plainly says that to submit now will only ensure their lives as ludd’s slaves. and, when both mira and asher accept these terms, they are met with immediate pushback and shame from the circumstances and people around them ; the codex heavy slandering mira’s choice and the murder of tom, and elissa’s immediate fury at asher for ruining things as well as royland’s disappointed acceptance of asher’s decision. they are ‘less than’ for choosing this option, no matter their reasonings, but what else was there to do? in these pivotal moments of the patriarchy, both mira and asher are expected to put aside themselves for dignity, victory, and for the betterment of their family and what their family may or may not desire. mira valuing her life at the expense of house forrester, and choosing herself over ancestral items that hold more power than her, a woman? evil. asher succumbing to his heart and choosing ‘selfish desires’ over his family, again? evil, and disappointing. mira is expected to die vindictively with her purity intact and asher is expected to endanger his family for pride, two fates they do not want, but must perform as is their womanly and manly duty to their house.

and while i don’t think asher agrees to marry gwyn for love, it is undeniable he still holds something for her — something he understands to be shameful, if this scene is any indication :

i wish i could include the video i have of this, but alas. still : seeing asher say this before his remaining family and watching as his face changes through a multitude of expressions, only to settle upon staring at talia and elissa with a look of ‘i’m saying something horrible and am awaiting reprimanding’, is just another piece in a long line of evidence as to how much the forresters look down upon asher for gwyn, much more than ludd judged gwyn for asher indeed.

i fear i’m just repeating myself, but your tags were enlightening and on-point! and i couldn’t help but talk about the mira-asher of it all in terms of gender and marriage and loss of autonomy. there is so much to that particular analysis that one could nitpick ( asher using a ‘woman’s weapon’ aka poison to kill ludd versus mira saying she’d ‘slit (morgryn’s) throat’ / mira’s crassness leading up to the cell, cursing and ending things looking dirty instead of some pretty maiden versus asher’s careful wording and politicking, all while dressed in westeros clothing that covers him up head to toe / etc. ) but that’s worth a seperate post entirely. still, i’m so very glad to see someone else pick up on the same thing! oh, the interesting gender implications in ttgot …

[asherforrester]

new scenes that make me crazy part one. the way she says this and does end up blaming that guard’s death on tom, depending. i cannot emphasize how insane this was to witness lmfao

[cainhurstundead]

Tyrion's sexual abuse is often viewed as something that only happened in the past when it's actually something he still experienced as an adult. Tywin is constantly trying to have control over his sexuality from his relationships to who he has sex with this is why he has to keep Shae a secret and why he goes to extreme measures to keep her hidden. He forces Tyrion to marry Sansa then tries to pressure him into consummating it when he clearly doesn't want to. He has Shae talk about her and Tyrion's sex life in front of everyone at his trial. All of this is sexually abusive and it's not acknowledged anywhere near enough

[tyrionstongue]

This.

[lost-lords]

was gripped by a disease on the way back from the coffeeshop so have this hastily-made table comparing some core traits of ttgot women

[ttgotgifs]

Telltale’s Game of Thrones ► Female Characters (requested by nbclementine)

[asherforrester]

still very much a wip, but enjoy my rewrite family trees <3

[goldcrescent]

I really love the idea that Ned thinks he’s a gentle parent but like….by northern standards. He’ll be like ah I remember what this was like I can’t be as harsh as my father…..boy hostage fetch my sword I have decided you children will watch me perform a beheading instead of the traditional bloodeagle. I know know I’m getting soft in my old age (27)

[goldcrescent]

One time at a feast he publicly tells Sansa and Arya that as young ladies if they’re ever stranded in the arctic (the front yard in february) it’s okay with him if they choose a swift death by blade instead of a slow one from a combination of the elements and a polar bear and Roose is like see this is what you get for voting in a fucking liberal. Maege pulls Ned aside and she’s like listen I know we’re both trying this new age parenting thing but if being mauled by bears is good enough for my girls it’s good enough for yours

[asherforrester]

whose character do you think whose great potential was squandered in season 1?

on the off chance of sounding utterly selfish : rodrik, asher, and mira were all collectively done dirty by episode six’s ending and, thusly, season one. mira is the one most often talked about, but asher and rodrik less so … although i think they began suffering from the glaringly convoluted flaws of ttgot earlier than mira ever did.

asher is perhaps the worse case out of the three, simply because he hardly does anything. although he’s one of my favorites, i initially left asher behind when i first played the game and sort of came away from the whole experience with a deep sense of disappointment over asher overall. i think his biggest issue is that episode one spends a long time hyping asher up from the miller’s boy story to then ethan’s death -- with implications that asher will become lord in ethan’s place and, more importantly, will turn into some savage, vengeful beast upon hearing of ethan’s fate. the first thing we learn about asher, sans any codex information or vague anger issues, is that he about killed a child for ethan over some ( likely ) mild bullying. we are told point blank as preamble that he has always protected the twins to a scary degree. elissa calls him volatile and someone who does not think, but acts, and there’s what appears to be subtle foreshadowing at some sort of ‘lord asher’ route : when elissa expresses his utter disinterest in lordship in the very episode where ethan dies and ryon is stolen away right after asher is sent to return home. there is some heavy setup for asher, and it’s all rather juicy, but ultimately falls flat when you actually sit down and play the rest of the game.

all of asher’s ‘promise’ is short lived. we never actually see asher’s reaction to ethan’s death, nor experience any extent of that pain or rage we were expecting him to feel over it. we also hardly see asher angry, per se. he is more so all japes and smiles, which is hardly what’d you expect of asher given everything we’ve heard ( royland even says asher didn’t ‘say much’ in episode one ). and the one time we get a whiff of that legendary, scary violence that asher was known to possess, it’s in a brief scene that’s wasted upon some random whitehill soldier in episode six. a scene you might not get if you had killed asher off in the ambush, mind you. it’s this utter lack which makes it hard to see why ludd would fear asher, or how this man was someone who could’ve earned a story as morally ambiguous as the miller’s boy tale, much less a ‘reputation’ of unpleasantness. for all intents and purposes, asher carries himself with a degree of soundness most of the time and proves even more rational than rodrik in episode six. honestly, i’d argue rodrik’s beatdown of gryff and gared’s killing of britt is more passionately aggressive than anything asher does the whole game … which, for a man who is promised to the player as some sort of angel of death from the getgo, is rather disappointing.

of course, i’ve been able to bridge these gaps upon more replays. i do not mind asher having changed in essos! i don’t even mind the perception of him at home being ‘wrong’, in the sense that his family’s views of him are somewhat warped and purposefully distasteful. but i think asher still leaves a lot to be desired nonetheless. if killed, his entire plot becomes nothing and, in turn, he never gets to do anything with his lordship foreshadowing. and even then, most of the essos plot is more about beskha than himself anyways, if you really look at it. for someone sold as a main character, he sure functions mostly as a supporting or background piece to other characters around him. i spent most of his screentime waiting for him to do something, or for something to affect him, or … you know, for anything that had asher pushing the plot along instead of beskha, and i was left relatively empty handed. i don’t really know why asher was written so sparingly ( he has the least amount of scenes in comparison to every other playable character, besides ethan ) or so rigidly ( he lacks a lot of morality choices or paths besides ‘malcolm or beskha?’ ), but it has always saddened me and left me wanting more. after all, asher has many fascinating qualities and, perhaps, some of the most interesting relationships inside and outside his forrester family. he is an all around complex character despite his limited appearances and his plot was the one i was most excited for -- him having to become a leader, him having to actually return home and deal with ironrath, and simultaneously his past affair with gwyn, whose family is now well and truly on his shit list in an unforgivable way. while episode six delivers on … some of that … it’s still not nearly enough, and he’s critically injured anyway, and immediately loses his playable status as a result. his and mira’s squandered potential are hindered by season one the most, and are part of the reason i’m almost half glad we never got a season two.

as for rodrik, i have far less complaints, thankfully! while i wouldn’t call rodrik’s story strong by any means, it is still suitable enough to make do. he is a crippled soldier struggling to rule a dying house, and for the most part, the story delivers on that potential to the best of its ability. my main qualm is in the fact that he can just die in episode five. i find the ambush lazy ( see my reasonings here ) and it’s a disservice to the interesting plots that could’ve arose had both rodrik and asher survived. what would ironrath do now that there’s a physically capable lordling within their walls? one who is technically rodrik’s heir no less? i would’ve loved for rodrik’s crippled status to still haunt him even after he’s able to fight again -- in the form of his very skilled and agile brother, whom is suddenly being turned to by smallfolk and his own men alike. this could be made even more prominent in a sentinel royland outcome, as royland not only favored asher pre-canon, but seems to have had some ‘asher should be lord’ ideals if his traitor route is anything to analyze. i’d argue some sort of asher vs rodrik lordling clash was also semi hinted at given how episode two, the lost lords, opens up ; with asher shown first, who you immediately begin viewing as the new lord ironrath needs, only to then be shown a revived rodrik right after. even my mother, who has never read nor watched any of grrm’s work, and relatively never takes the games i show her too seriously, instantly picked up a similar idea despite. while i would find an asher vs rodrik clash for power boring in most aspects, i think asher’s total disinterest in ruling and rodrik’s potential insecurities make such a conflict much more fascinating. i also, more indulgently, just wish rodrik was allowed to interact with asher for a while more before any kind of ‘sacrifice’. to see them handle the war together, as well as maybe understanding more of what led to asher’s exile, and what that childhood might have looked like. to see the very standard, masculine westeros culture in soldiers clash with the more sellsword-y, and deeply traumatized culture that essos cultivates. i like the small bites of rodrik clashing with amaya and the slaves ( especially because they view rodrik as ‘weak’ instantly ; they’d have no respect for a cripple ) and how a beskha-rodrik dynamic would look like had asher survived. but all in all, i think rodrik’s disabled arc is short lived and his recovery arc is equally uninspired and disappointing. maiming him again is so silly, truly. and his final fight with the whitehills is similarly boring.

from what everyone understands, ttgot was originally supposed to be a multi-season sort of game ; to copy the show’s format, obviously. with that in mind, as well as the writers’ reluctance to kill another main character in the final episode, it makes me recontextualize a lot of the pacing, character arcs, etc. we know for sure that mira wasn’t supposed to die, so it makes me wonder if the ambush would’ve gone differently -- that, if the game followed a more seasonal than episodical format, if it would’ve been put in much later on in the story. that alone wouldn’t solve all of my gripes, but the concept of more time could do a lot, as i think a squished timetable and executive demands were the deadliest poison for the game. they had to write so much by the seat of their asses and had zero moments to breathe or leave many details. so it’s only natural that, as a result, many of the characters were never allowed to shine, so to speak. many were culled or purposefully squandered to avoid loose ends or more diverse writing / coding. the fact the battle of ironrath plays out the exact same for both rodrik and asher, despite us seeing how differently they fight, is kind of a testament to that. they literally write asher getting stabbed in a hyper-specific area instead of anywhere fatal because it has him unable to abuse his agility and, thusly, makes his model interchangeable to rodrik’s. it’s that sort of laziness and handwaving that makes the latter parts of ttgot hard to play. after a while, everyone sort of blurs together and gets trapped in unsatisfying, unspecific fates … besides gared, whom is my favorite part of episode six because, from how i played him, he’s finally allowed to complete his ‘arc’ and commits to his negative character development.

if a good portion of this post seems redundant, i apologize! but this belief that everyone ‘kinda had their potential squandered in season one’ is basically why i’d personally have to rewrite ttgot before ever writing a hypothetical season two. i mainly talk about asher and rodrik here, since they’re less discussed overall, but i also believe there are many besides them that are hindered by senseless deaths or bad plots.

[asherforrester]

feeling gared-piled today … alexa play the faithful squire

[asherforrester]

so … i have been thinking a lot about how karl haunts the narrative. like we know that the whitehills OBVIOUSLY don’t deal well with grief ( LOOKS AT THEIR REACTION TO LIVYA…. ), and we’ve explored some of that with karl, especially where torrhen and ebbert are concerned, but … how does karl’s situation affect gwyn? ( im interested in hearing about all the whitehills but ESPECIALLY gwyn, id like to know how it changed her and what she does or how she thinks differently now )

i’ve always found gwyn to be a deeply unaffected party where grief is concerned, at least when compared to her elder brothers -- with gwyn seeming more saddened by what their mother’s death entailed rather than the passing itself. she comments on how ludd smiled more before, as well as lamenting over her brothers and their ire towards gryff, whom is all but stated to be bullied over lady whitehill’s passing. but how did she cope? how did she deal? we get very little from that … perhaps on account of her young age at the time ( “is that your mother?” / “yes … though i hardly remember her,” ), which means much of that loss was solely felt from sources who more keenly grieved lady whitehill. i don’t believe this effect is just an age thing, however, as i find gwyn’s relation to her family and her family’s pain to be rather distant. even upon the recollection of gryff’s torment, there is little ‘opinion’. does she condemn karl, ebbert, and torrhen for their treatment of a child? especially when gwyn, perhaps more so than any of her kin, has witnessed the changes that pain caused firsthand? again, we do not know … gwyn keeps many of her opinions close to her chest and, in turn, many of her subsequent feelings as well. she isn’t theatrical like her lordly father nor explosively emotional like gryff -- she maintains a level of evenness at all times, completely committed to an almost neutral party in all areas of life. hence why gwyn can do acts such as allowing asher to kill gryff or saving gryff from asher ; it isn’t inconsistency, it’s her middle ground finally teetering towards one half, spurred on by large events. such as : asher trying to stop gwyn’s family coming to harm vs asher actively poisoning ludd.

you even see similar mannerisms during rodrik’s visit to highpoint, although less obvious because gwyn isn’t stabbing anybody, lol. but for all her firm warnings and ‘rodrik, how could you?’s over gryff’s imprisonment, she ends that ordeal siding with lady forrester and apologizing to rodrik.

much like any living thing, gwyn’s heart can and will be pulled by certain things and i believe that shows in highpoint and the negotiations in ironrath. she has her limits … things like endangering ryon ( an innocent child ) so openly has her subtly siding with the forresters -- as does asher’s decisions regarding her family, because the circumstances are so delicate and gwyn’s faith, love, and trust in asher means more to her than the compliance of rodrik, a man who owes her nothing. when i talk about gwyn’s apathy and general distance from emotion, i do not intend to paint her as some unfeeling, completely opportunistic thing. pain is felt, compassion is offered ( to varying degrees of empathy ), but in small doses.

to bring this back to karl, i cannot see gwyn mourning him any better than her mother. she has little to say about him and, overall, misses her brothers very little. if anything has weighed on gwyn since karl’s greyscale, it would be the storm it wrought once again -- all the mirrors he shattered throughout his deteriorating condition, leaving sharp pieces on the floor of highpoint and well buried in every part of their family, turning them thornier than they already were. karl’s death, in my eyes, is the final fracture that properly breaks the whitehills and sees to their scattering. ebbert squirms to the citadel, torrhen to the dreadfort … the whole ordeal stealing three of ludd’s children instead of just the one. these tensions were there since lady whitehill passed i’d imagine, in some kind of tiny, unknowable way ( perhaps in the sense of alienation ; where the whitehills stop believing their father’s words and began outcasting, scapegoating, etc. ), but the issues festered, grew enlarged, and thus became obvious and irrefutable. the primary issue therein is that the whitehill children’s cope no longer applies with karl’s slow passing, seeing as gryff holds no ‘logical’ fault regarding the greyscale. there’s no party to point fingers at or blame. their accidental reliance on a living, breathing outlet for their pain and hard-to-grasp feelings has made them shaky, deeply immature, and unable to properly confront things that hurt them. i don’t think any of them realize this when karl begins dying ( as it would require unbiased self-inspection, and an admittance that gryff was ‘important’ and served a purpose within their unit ) but, as i said, it shows in all but name. they are faced with the suffering of someone deeply irreplaceable and beloved to them, and the ‘murder’ of karl isn’t really a murder at all, so they deteriorate rapidly and break apart.

it doesn’t help that i truly view karl as their ‘glue’ ; this shining, smiling boy who’s pictured locking arms with his littlest brother and standing closely to the secondborn. he’s the heir, the true lordling, their eldest sibling -- and in asoiaf, we know the idolization that younger children typically feel towards their older brother. whatever karl’s personality may or may not be, him being revered in that way just fits. he’s seen in a similar light as their mother. someone they are safe with, someone guiding, protective, always right, and utterly undeserving of the brutal, painful way in which their warm light was snuffed out. these comparisons only run deeper when you realize that karl shares many of his features with lady whitehill. it’s almost like watching their mother die all over again, except this time the process isn’t chaos that was over in a blink, it was the slow, agonizing death that comes in the form of the greyscale disease. a slow eating away of karl’s skin, and a death of his mind, personhood, etc.

regardless, whilst i think this time was taxing ( especially for ludd in particular, whom gwyn feels for deeply as his daughter ) i don’t necessarily think gwyn herself … cared. again, much like her siblings, she repeats the process that started with her mother -- only worse, in the sense that gwyn felt even more removed from the events that unfurled. her concern was highpoint ; seeing to it that the greyscale didn’t spread, that their house continued running, and so on. her determination to ‘fix’ things is a key aspect of gwyn, to the point she’s almost obsessed with ‘cleaning up’ and suturing the wound that bleeds. making things better is how she copes with most of the torment of her life, and the lives of those she loves. accumulating to gwyn’s focus lying solely on her lordly father, as well as her siblings if they allowed it -- which they might or might not accept, just as much as gwyn might or might not offer, as this would be right after the affair with asher. going from the stress of that to karl’s passing only darkens highpoint further, turning gwyn’s ‘rape’ from a singular incident into a bad luck streak for the whitehills. it’d be draining. what gwyn has to spare would be minimal and likely used wisely, or at least used in a way gwyn believes to be smart.

likely, she’d spend the most time at karl’s bedside, as befitting a woman. most servants likely shrinked away from being near ludd’s heir due to the infectious of the disease -- and that’s if ludd let many people around a weakened karl to begin with. so gwyn would take the mantle of caretaker ; oscillating between easier tasks such as providing food and water, and the more difficult, risky chores such as changing bedding, clothes, and overseeing karl’s state at every waking hour in case their maester was needed. she could bear it, seeing karl in that state, as it didn’t quite land with her. she could see his greying face, slowly being lost to the madness, and not flinch or cry or feel it touch her heart. gwyn would operate almost on autopilot ; automatically and pragmatically, with little soothing outside of provided company. perhaps she’d read a book and begin saying the words aloud to karl, or would fancy some letters and muse over the details openly, freely, with the invitation for suggestions palpable. perhaps, as a pious woman, gwyn would occasionally pray to various of the seven gods to stall the greyscale or at least allow him a peaceful passing. but holding karl’s hand as he laid bedridden was reserved for their father, as were any tantrums that happened in his absence reserved only for their family of ( emotionally incompetent ) men.

after karl is sent to the sorrows, gwyn believes him dead and moves on swiftly. again, she doesn’t actively miss her brothers nor any of the people they’ve lost. and with karl it is more prominent almost, because i do believe some part of gwyn is relieved at ludd no longer having his assured heir(s) … there is a soft understanding within her that had karl lived, and ebbert and torrhen had stayed, there would’ve been little room for gwyn to maneuver as she does in canon. highpoint would go solely to karl and his family, the title lady whitehill to karl’s wife, and karl would easily gain the obedience and respect of any men-at-arms with ease just by virtue of birth. with her and karl existing together at home as adults, the space in which gwyn uses would shrink -- her influence smaller, harder to hold onto, with karl ( even if accidentally ) all but pushing her out. she’d no longer be the sole voice in ludd’s ear either. these loses would be hard to endure in current time, but even back then i can easily picture gwyn as a young girl deeply invested in lord’s business, sort of yearning for that control, and always desiring to bring about good, active change to her house -- to play heir to her father even if it’s an impossible reality, since gwyn is relegated to working within a woman’s cage. this situation leaves a lot of room for envy surrounding her brothers, which then leads to things such as gwyn’s dismissal of their absences and willingness, at least in gryff’s case, to cut them loose ( letting asher kill gryff, sure, but also promising to see gryff exiled for asher’s comfort ). it simply proves advantageous for her to be in an environment where it’s just her and ludd at highpoint, where her words hold the most weight to ludd, as well as gwyn functioning as the figure most of house whitehill is familiar with. she may always have to resort to underhanded means, but at least she has immense sway and power. could even pretend, at least a little, in those girlish whims of fantasy, that she is her father’s heir and that no brothers exist to her, or at least none that threaten her position.

although i’d argue it’s easier to think coldly and believe detached notions when these things are already lost to her. i don’t think gwyn truly knows if she misses karl or not, because those childhood memories are so far away -- if there was a girl who clung to her older brother’s sleeve and begged him for things, be it safety or reason, she is long gone in the same way karl is. karl’s actual person has disappeared and only exists as a smiling boy in a portrait and an absence in the lives of everyone else, same as her mother. the memories of him are not her own ( as she thinks little of him ) and are instead other people’s. gwyn’s reluctance to discuss her losses, or loss in general, strikes me as deeply reserved of her. how often has she been allowed to talk about her mother? of asher? emotions in women, especially those of fraught despair and grief, is seen exclusively as madness -- as the ultimate folly of women, whom are soft-hearted by design, and entirely beholden to their feminine instincts. never mind how men are similarly, if not more so, impulsive and how commonly they live extremely hedonistic lives full of sex, outbursts, and protection from consequences via power and lordship. gwyn keeps most of her personality and thoughts to herself, speaking clinically and distantly of all things delicate, and most of her best efforts of maintaining evenness are met with disrespect, distrust, and tiring hurdles. see many of rodrik’s dialogue options to gwyn ; how two out of three of all choices are dismissive at best and cruel at worst, with rodrik being able to say things such as this :

not to entirely blame rodrik, seeing as the whitehills are his enemy, but i believe my point still stands in the sense that gwyn is often treated very cruelly and misogynisticly. even by other women like lady forrester, who all but blames gwyn for asher’s exile and essentially views her as some kind of evil seductress who would readily doom rodrik to a similar fate.

even outside the fictional world of westeros, fans have repeatedly held gwyn to odd, unrealistic standards in a way that feels rather pointed due to the wideness in which her men counterparts, or more typically girlbossy counterparts ( elaena, mira, and talia ), are given. i have seen her be painted as a manipulator, as a silly naive idealist who doesn’t understand how the world works, and so on. with her reception being so negative in and out of this game, is it any wonder gwyn is so openly cool towards most things? she is always being witnessed and critiqued. and for a potentially ambitious woman who yearns for some sort of power and control, that’s extremely dangerous. but it is that supposed unfeelingness, and gwyn’s almost intense craving for said control ( “together, we can control the future of our houses.” ), that implies she is little more than a woman who has been in survival mode for most of her life. there is no time to analyze her feelings or to feel them too indulgently. there is no reprieve from her grief, no support system to wash her back or hold her hand or smear balm over fresh and old wounds, and so she can only carry on and do so without a heart on her sleeve -- awaiting for some idealistic future where she may, finally, be able to rest ( which may or may not explain her obsession with peace ). maybe then she can miss her family more and mourn more, but as it is, that’s simply not afforded to a woman of her position. it’s not like anyone’s even offering to be there for her, anyway.

[ambassadorpavus]

Forresters being priceless.

[asherforrester]

“elaena, you know what happens to women in war.”

“you think i’m naive? that i’ve made my choices blindly?”

“they’re here to kill us, elaena. and worse.”

“i -- i don’t care!”

elaena’s dialogue here is so interesting, especially that brief crack in her bluster when rodrik doesn’t immediately tell her what she wants to hear ( aka that elaena can just stay in ironrath ) -- and instead keeps it blunt.

her whole resistance to being sent away and even feeling compared to an ‘injured horse’ that’s being cut loose … a liability … everything she says here and accuses of other people is how she views herself, most likely. an injured horse needing to be cut loose, a woman who is naive and has made choices blindly and recklessly, someone whose presence hurts more than helps … nobody is saying this to elaena or even implying it, but there’s a lot of personal discomfort there and, in turn, a surge of brittle anger at all these perceived slights, true and untrue.

her desire to see this to the end is understandable, as she’s risked everything for this small keep in the north. she’s turned her back on her family, she dragged arthur into his brutal death, and she’s no longer a maiden -- all of which had been her choice ( “that i make my own choices” she says to rodrik in this same scene ) … but they were poorly calculated ones nonetheless, despite elaena clinging to that supposed ‘independence’ and ‘autonomy’ that she has. a freedom that’s ruined her life and for what? ironrath? rodrik? a man she loves but still isn’t married to?

anyway, elaena is so clearly in a corner here and is vying for any kind of leverage that she can pretend is brave and of her station. she desires for rodrik to publicly say elaena belongs here by his side and that she can, evidently, make her own choices as his lady. she wants to be seen as capable -- mature, adult, just as fearless and cold as perhaps the lady forrester. but it’s an insecure kind of posturing because elaena isn’t thinking clearly and hasn’t been for a long time, and is still trying to feign that she’s in-control when she hasn’t been. her position is scary and uncertain ; elaena has likely lost any of her standing within her family ( she’s soiled now, and not only got arthur killed, but misused her father’s men and got them into trouble with the boltons -- whatever trust she was given is gone and everything is being taken away ) and she cannot bear a whitehill husband, so her immediate reactions are sleeping with rodrik, loving him, and trying to hastily integrate into his family during active war and make a home in ironrath, as well as retaining her noble lady status via rodrik’s affections and lordship. elaena feels alien to her own family and wants so badly to be considered seriously, and talked to like an equal rodrik can trust.

but this is all so tragic because elaena isn’t ready, and she’s not really moored in reality. ‘i -- i don’t care!’ … obviously, elaena cares about the war and what could happen to her, but she cannot accept those dangers and thus cannot take precaution. her fate isn’t like elissa’s or talia’s, it’s her getting dragged away as a woman in war and screaming for rodrik -- it’s very small of her, in the sense that it does show her naivety ( or, more accurately, ignorance ) regarding her situation. elaena was deeply misguded all her life by false notions of choice via her father, and was so unprepared for the actual reality as a woman in westeros. there’s a level of false privilege there that easily becomes much of her undoing. and it’s specifically privilege, because elaena is capable of understanding that marriages are meant to be beneficial to her house and that her feelings for rodrik don’t matter in that grand scheme, but she still holds fast to the idea that her lord father loves her / respects her enough to allow her a say in the man at least. it is the shattering of that illusion and understanding that spurs elaena down her hasty path, because she is incapable of accepting her father’s ‘slight’, and elaena’s sort of vicious cycle continues. she makes a choice, then she doubles down.

so, compared to gwyn, mira, elissa, etc., elaena seems so childish and foolish. i don’t mean that in a cruel way ( after all, gwyn and mira do share a certain naïveté themselves in their own areas ) but elaena’s mirror blinders are obvious in a lot of her actions and, thus, personality. her inherent messiness in all she does, from forcing rodrik’s hand to defy bolton orders and brazenly giving up her maidenhead, is an obvious downward spiral for her … elaena’s tragedy mostly lies in her autonomy being taken and still believing this is an injustice anyone in westeros would ‘care’ for, and hastily trying to gain it back by any means at her disposal. and, thus, clinging to what may very well be mistakes or false independence — all while disguising everything as choices she still stands by.

[tyrionstongue]

Amaya from the Telltale Game of Thrones game fascinates me. We are introduced to her as the leader of a group of specialist pit-fighters and integral to the identity of said pit-fighters is a "might makes right" mentality. You only attain their attention and respect, and by extension any chance of working with them, if you playing as Asher prove you could beat any one of them in a physical confrontation. And so you are put with their best fighter Bloodsong, an evident defending champion.

The best in the pit isn't Amaya, but she is the one who calls for the fight to start and end. She is the one who watches it proceed from an elevated golden bench while every other spectator remains standing. She is the one who leads the fighters from their former pit to the docks. And in Rodrik's version of Episode 6, she is the one whom he has to convince to not break faith with House Forrester. Her fighters, because they clearly are hers, back down from confronting Rodrik at the shake of her head. They would have been ready to go at her nod.

Amaya is not a strongman or martial artist or dual wielder. She seems smaller than the others in build. Presumably Bloodsong could smoke her on his own merits, and she dubs him the best fighter she has got NO COST to the respect she clearly commands from the others. Nor does anyone protest Bloodsong holding that title, which he defends more effortfully than he defends his own life; surely his peers would do no less. Amaya introduces herself and the other pit-fighters to Asher as people living by the rule of "might makes right" you win or you die, taking orders from nobody... all the while esconsed on the faux throne that emphasises her smallness, waiting to issue orders of her own.