Mspec Lesbian Problems

Welcome to Mspec Lesbian Problems, you may call me Lun or Red (she/they). Here, I make funny jokes about being an mspec lesbian, specifically around the problems we face, sometimes post an essay/rant, and let others vent their problems- with supportive replies (unless you're a multilesbophobe)

[bilesproblems]

Welcome to Mspec Lesbian Problems, an mspec lesbian blog centered around the struggles we face

New to bi lesbians? Here's some info!

And here are some words I will use

About the blog:

This blog accepts mspec/bi/pan/poly/omni lesbians and is focused on positivity for us

This blog accepts lesboys and other gender variant lesbians, even if not centered on them

This blog also accepts all queer identities. Even the ones that don't make sense. That includes sex favorable aces and romance favorable aros, orchid aces and orchid aros, xenogenders, all aspecs, etc.

This blog is stanceless on syscourse, shipcourse, self dx validity, and other discourse that isn't specifically queer discourse. I have my own opinions but I want this blog to be a safe space for all mspec lesbians even if I don't personally agree with them on other aspects of their identity, or don't agree with their opinions on what is and isn't valid. I can go have a fit about it on my personal blog. Radqueers are on thin ice but I don't post about them here

I said before I would not explain mspec lesbians but I changed my mind I can do that. Check for explanations already posted though like pls. I don't like explaining constantly I just volunteered because I felt like some explanations were... Not as thorough as I could explain them. And sometimes my experience would be overlooked. I conveniently placed a link to a post with more links that has several expos

Discourse won't be tolerated, this is a SAFE SPACE. Like I said on point 4, I can go have a fit on my main blog about my own opinions.

Ableism won't be tolerated either. Using words like the r-slur, c-slur (unless it's being reclaimed) psycho(path) or sociopath or psychotic as insults, narcissist as an insult, autistic as an insult, using "delulu" to water down delusions, or anything that equates disorders to character flaws, is strictly not allowed

You may submit your own struggles thru the ask machine.

About the blog runner:

I am a bi lesbian, poly lesbian, pan lesbian, omni lesbian, neptunic, and lunian. I do use the SAM, but not traditionally. I'm asexual, bi, poly, and lesbian demiromantic, omniaesthetic and panplatonic.

I am a full moon springtide lunian/bi lesbian/poly lesbian, meaning I am not attracted to men. Exceptions may apply to partial men who are also at least partially women. I am also a waxing gibbous springtide lunian/pan lesbian/omni lesbian, meaning I experience pan and omni tertiary attraction that feels meaningful to label. But I do accept all mspec lesbians, not just the ones like me.

You can call me Red, because I use Redtail as my online persona on most things including my main account, or Lun (pronounced loon) for this blog.

I am bigender, and possibly genderfae. I am a hypergirl and aporagender I use she/her and they/them pronouns.

I am self-diagnosed autistic and suspect potential ADHD. I am trying to get a diagnosis but the waits for getting an appointment are ridiculous

I am a young adult at 18, and for the majority of this blog's existence I have been a minor

I personally identify as critinclus because I do feel I'd need to understand someone before accepting them fully, although sometimes I also think of myself as radinclus because I can get behind most people's reasoning. But even those I don't understand are included on this blog

My main account is @redtail-lol

I'm a term collector, and the transition from "normal about labels" to "almost compulsively adding more" started with being a bi lesbian.

[this-is-exclusionism]

" but bi-lesbians aren't valid because it means that lesbianism will include men-"

read.

[ieatratsyummy]

it's mspec lesbian awarness and visibility day!

I LOVE YOU MSPEC LESBIANS 🫶🧡💛🤍🩷❤️

[bilesproblems]

I hope this is okay for me to ask since i'm not an mspec lesbian, plus even tho its mspec lesbian related its also related to adjacent identities so not sure if it'll be valid. I've always been under the impression that mspec lesbians (and mspec straight women prob too, tho in a different way) have always received more hate than mspec gays? I've also seen it in labels like butch and femme, there's a lot more gatekeeping from lesbians that mspec women can't use them at all or at least not if they're dating a man, but in the gay labels like bear or otter they're more accepting of mspec men using it? This is not to mean that they don't receive hate in any way, its just that by the little i've seen in online queer spaces, women or people who are perceived as women seem to have more polemics and infighting in their communities.

Yeah there's more negative visibility around mspec lesbians, and radical feminism being more prevalent. The lesbian separatism movement still has residual effects of wanting to detach from any association with men. There isn't really an equivalent force in gaylm spaces cause misandry isn't anywhere near the institutional societal force that misogyny is.

[earthlingchild-deactivated20260]

you never owe anyone an explanation or justification of your identity. you are the one that knows your truth. truth is sacred. keep it. hold it. let in only the people that will handle it with tender care.

[bilesproblems]

I just wanna say that there are likely many more of us around than people would think, i'm a pan lesbian but i don't call myself that cos i don't have the energy to defend myself against my own community. That's okay i think. I so greatly miss the pan label but i don't want to risk being kicked out of sapphic spaces like i was in the past.

Oh definitely. I'm usually closeted about it honestly :( and there's probably many of us that don't realize they're one of us but would identify this way if they knew.

[bilesproblems]

is exclusionism more popular here than it was a few years back, i haven’t used this website since 2023 & only just started using it again

I think it's less popular actually.

[bilesproblems]

non-lesbian is terminology related to non-woman and is racist jsyk

I think you might be stupid for this one I'm sorry. I don't have the energy to elaborate

[bilesproblems]

I'll elaborate a little bit. Nonman and nonwoman were, I assume, used in place of the actual words for one's gender (woman and man). Specifically, I think in the post first bringing up the racist aspect, they were used to describe degendering. I'm not clear on if they were ever used to degender black people, or only used in a context of explaining how degendering made black women feel like they were just seen as nonmen, and black men as just nonwomen.

Non-lesbian does not have a more humanized equivalent to it. In 2026 we recognize being a non-man wouldn't inherently make someone a woman, but at the time these terms were used to describe degendering, nonman was equivalent to woman, just a degendered, dehumanized one, and nonwoman a degendered, dehumanized man. So that's the first reason this is Wrong - there is no unifying word for non-lesbians that makes non-lesbian a dehumanized way to refer to them.

The other thing is, without a source, I am pretty sure non-lesbian doesn't have the dehumanizing, racist context that nonman and nonwoman had. Because of the first reason, I can't even imagine a way non-lesbian would be used to be racist. Just because it follows the format of "non-[thing]" doesn't automatically make it carry the same weight as nonman and nonwoman did. That's a silly thing to believe

Also referring to non-lesbians and referring to non-men are both fine, the issue with "nmlnm" was that enforcing that definition as the One True Definition of Lesbian, and anyone who broke its rules as therefore not a lesbian, would force black lesbians to identify with terms used to describe their degendering, essentially degendering themselves, or else be punished. There is no enforcement of "you're a non-lesbian" on people when I just refer to non-lesbians as a way to specify I am talking about people who are not lesbians

[bilesproblems]

Honestly. Now that I think about it, there's two things I'd like to talk about

1. Despite exclusionist insistance we should just stick to one label (usually bisexual,) most mspec lesbian experiences are actually uniquely both (we know this but I wanna say smth about it anyway)

2. Luniaphobia is not just people hating us for our label, but the aforementioned specific experience of being lunian/an mspec lesbian, and that luniaphobia will follow us even if we pick one label.

I had this thought first about mspec lesbians who use the split attraction model. The online lesbian, bisexual, and mspec communities don't just assume aligned attraction, but are actively hostile to anyone who doesn't have that aligned attraction. With the example of someone who is bisexual, attracted to both binary genders, and romantically lesbian, if this person chooses only to identify as a lesbian, the heavy emphasis on repulsion towards men, and not finding them attractive, will likely make them feel like they don't quite belong here. And of course, if they dare express sexual attraction to men, even if they would never date a man because they are not romantically attracted to them, the response is "lesbians can't be romantically OR sexually attracted to men!" "You're the reason men think they can harass us and get us to fuck them," and "being a lesbian isn't just a choice to not date guys, you're just bisexual!" (Which I agree, it is not a choice, but being lesbiromantic and bisexual is not a choice)

So they have the label of being just bisexual put on them, and to avoid that hostility, identify as bisexual. The bisexual community has the same feeling of not quite belonging, because the assumption is a romantic interest in men and women as much as a sexual interest. And when they express that they aren't actually interested in dating a man, they're just attracted to them? The response is "you're not really bi then!" "You're a biphobic invader!" "You're the reason people think bisexuals can pick a side!" "You have internalized biphobia, and look down on m/f relationships as less queer, accept yourself and us," and "you're just a lesbian, then."

Neither community will actually accept someone who is bi and lesbian as one of their own. Even without using the allegedly problematic label of "bi lesbian," they are still bi and a lesbian and are punished accordingly. The only solutions for them to actually be accepted are the biphobic solution of "picking a side" and ignoring their attraction to men, or the lesbophobic solution of being open to relationships with men that they don't want.

It's somewhat similar the other way around - biromantic, but sexually a lesbian. Call yourself a lesbian and express you just don't find guys attractive, but you're willing to date a man, sometimes have crushes on them even, but maybe just not have sex with them, and the results vary. Maybe you're "the reason men think they can date lesbians." Maybe you "clearly have internalized lesbophobia." Maybe "it's probably just comphet." Or maybe you're "just bisexual." Of course. And in the bisexual community, the lack of sexual attraction might not be brought up, but if that translates to not wanting to have sex with men, you're again "faking being bisexual" and "just a lesbian." The solutions to be accepted in either community are again, the biphobic solution of picking a side and ignoring their biromanticism, or the lesbophobic solution of putting out for men.

Exclusionists will claim that we, by using our labels, promote corrective rape, or conversion therapy, or make men think that they can get lesbians, or somehow want to force exclusive lesbians to have sex or relationships with men, but when it comes to split attraction? Telling mspec lesbians that they are just bisexual and wanting them to identify as just bisexual is directly encouraging a lesbian to have sex or relationships with men that they do not want, because to be just bisexual, they would have to stop being lesbians.

I'll reblog this later with an addition for ways other mspec lesbian experiences are unique and even without the label, we will be discriminated against for being mspec and lesbian. I got bored of writing this post but I wanted to put it up and not forget about it.

[allosexistnonsense]

"the split attraction model is only for aces (and aros" & all the problems with this

"split attraction model"

this term does not come from our communities. we didn't really have a word for labelling ourselves things like biromantic asexual or greyromantic homosexual, we just did it. the term "split attraction model" was created by ace exclusionist who complained about aces and aros supposedly trying to force this way of labelling your orientation onto everyone.

"the split attraction model is only for aces"

said person who understands the difference between romantic and sexual orientation so little that they think saying "aces" also covers aros. step 1 to understanding that there are different kinds of attraction is understanding that asexuality and aromanticism are largely separate.

"only aros and aces can use the split attraction model"

this singles out aces and aros for no reason. at first glance, it might seem generous to afford us some special rights, but in reality it's just pushing something deemed too confusing onto a group that is also deemed confusing. it's just "that weird thing can stay with the weirdos".

this is ahistorical. the concept of non-aligning attraction has been studied as early as the 1800s. and it wasn't studied in aros and aces, but in people we might today call bi gays, bi straights or straight gays.

it's antiqueer to deny allo queer people more complex experiences than what is most commonly seen. any queer person should be able to express all the nuances of their identity regardless of whether it "confuses people". it's also once again allosexist because differing orientation labels are most commonly associated with aces and aros and people just move the things they don't want to learn more about to the group they don't want to learn about, as well as not wanting any association with us even if just via multilabelling.

considering bi+ people are the community to most commonly experience differing orientations after the larger aro/ace community, i don't think it's a coincidence that this gets so much hate. not only is it associated with aros and aces, but also to a lesser extent with bi+ people, both groups that some queer people are eager to separate themselves from, are deemed too much etc.

it weaponises aces and aros to exclude other people.

they say that aces and aros are fine to have differing orientations, but so far every single one of these people has refused to understand that i'm bi in a way that isn't romantic or sexual. they are hypocrites who pretend to be ace/aro-friendly while still being allosexist.

most of it is recycled allosexism.

"bi gays, bu straights and straight gays are just fully bi/gay in denial because they have internalised homomisia" used to be "gay/bi aces and aros (and sometimes just aroaces in general) are just allo gay/bi in denial because they have internalised homomisia"

"bi straights and gay straights are just nonqueers people trying to be special and invading queer spaces" used to be "straight aces and aros (or aroaces in general) are just nonqueers trying to be special and invading queer spaces"

"you can't call yourself gay/lesbian if you're attracted to women/men in any way" used to be "you can't call yourself gay/lesbian if you're not attracted to men/women in every way"

"you should just call yourself x-sexual y-romantic instead of gay/lesbian(/straight)" is weaponised against bi gays, bi straights and straight gays now and was weaponised against aces and aros not that long ago (and still sometimes is). it's a subtle way of exclusion and othering to tell people they don't get to use the common community term and instead have to use terms that potentially sound medicalised and overly formal. it's still telling people they're not good enough to be fully accepted in the community and that they're doing their own identity wrong.

[bilesproblems]

Ik this is an mspec lesbian blog, but are mspec gays allowed here? /genq

absolutely

[bilesproblems]

non-lesbian is terminology related to non-woman and is racist jsyk

I think you might be stupid for this one I'm sorry. I don't have the energy to elaborate

[bilesproblems]

Sorry I've been so inactive, been held up with a new hyperfixation, but I had A Thought.

I worry that if/when mspec lesbians are finally accepted more widely, non-lesbians are gonna do the same thing with us that non-aspecs do with sex favorable aces and use "but some lesbians like men" as an excuse to ignore and erase exclusive lesbianism and then we're gonna be blamed and accused of "trying to make lesbianism more palatable" when talking about our* existences instead of rightfully blaming the non lesbians that will willfully misinterpret our identities and refuse to engage with their complexity beyond using them for erasure.

*technically I'm not a lesbian who likes men but yk

[coziplatonic]

Okay, so there's a bi lesbian that's anti good faith going around in mogai. Let me take a moment to go over ops response to people calling it out. Op doesn't list pronouns that I can find so I will be using "op".

This is a very one sided idea of history because it's ignoring all trans men who willingly identify as lesbians, those who didn't do it because of anyone else. I have been to multiple lesbian clubs, events, and areas where no one called trans men women, or misgendered any. Are there transphobic people who call trans men lesbians while meaning woman? Yes. Is that the entire concept of trans men lesbians? No. It's strange to imply every situation is inherently transphobic. Op is spreading the idea that any trans man who is a lesbian must be that way due to transphobia.

This is transphobic, which is funny since op calls trans men lesbians transphobic. "Female homosexuality" implies intersex women, trans women, and nonbinary people who aren't female can't be lesbians. Have we stopped understanding that the concept of calling lesbians a "females only club" is gross. Female also isn't a gender. You can't call it female homosexuality then say it's two genders loving the same gender. Sex ≠ gender.

I don't like implying that nonbinary is only included because they're a "dead space" of not fitting other places. I also don't like nonbinary people included when op called it female homosexuality, it's reinforcing the stereotype of nonbinary people being "women lite" or inherently a "female" thing.

Oh look, more transphobia and a lack of understanding on what these terms mean. Demi boys are boys, if one is a lesbian then that's a boy lesbian, them also being nonbinary doesn't erase the boy part. Multigender and genderfluid isn't just nonbinary. Multigender means multiple genders, genderfluid means the gender(s) are fluid. Those genders could be anything, genderfluid people can be men, multigender people can be men. You can't erase their identity and only validate one part of them, it's all or nothing. You either support the labels or you don't. There's also the part of saying binary trans men don't fall under the nonbinary label. What about trans men who are both binary men and nonbinary? I've met multiple. Are they only valid if they erase the man part and only say the nonbinary part? Or is that the wrong type of nonbinary for op. Does op have a very strict small definition for nonbinary and any spectrum that leaves the bubble is wrong? Most likely, given the lack of understanding for the labels mentioned.

This goes over what's said above but one part stuck out. Saying including trans men in lesbianism misgenders them. Why is that for op to decide? Trans men saying "lesbian fits me" is not misgendering themselves. This implies all trans men are 100% monogender he/him users. Trans men can use she/her, trans men can also be nonbinary, or agender, or genderfluid. And above all, shocking I know, men in general can be women at the same time. It isn't up to op to decide what's misgendering, it's up to the person using the label to decide what's misgendering them.

I am an example of a trans boy lesbian, I'm an intersex girlboy. I'm a trans woman that's also a man. Guess what, I'm not nonbinary, I'm a binary woman that's also a binary man. You can not remove my manhood from my womanhood, you can not remove my womanhood from my manhood. Am I transphobic? Am I misgendering myself? According to op I am.

Op also uses "non man" in some definitions which is an entire separate issue since non man has [ racist origins. ]. So that isn't helping op's case either.

[bilesproblems]

Technically it's okay to use nonman for yourself, it's only racist when it's forced onto others, but the rest of this reeks of... Honestly how I was when I was first getting into the community

OP if you're here, I sincerely hope you will grow and change and learn to accept the people who accept you instead of trying to hold onto ideas instilled into you by people who fundamentally don't accept you.

[aspacestorm]

mspec stands of multiattractional spectrum, as in being attracted to multiple genders. that's it.

solely being wlw, mlm, or nblnb means you are monospec. being mono gay/lesbian in addition to feeling attraction to nonbinary people means you are mspec gay/lesbian. it is that simple

it is exorsexist to claim all mspec people are *innately* attracted to monogender men and/or women

it is exorsexist to claim binary mono gay/lesbian identity includes nonbinary people because that inherently misgenders them

also real talk, the whole "people think nonbinary are man/woman lite" gives them undue credit. they see any given nonbinary people as deviant man or woman

[bilesproblems]

Never heard of bi lesbians before? Well you came to the right place! Here are some explanation posts!!

Why it isn't useless or exclusionary to call yourself a bi lesbian if you don't like men:

Anon wanted some info about bi lesbians and transmascs with lesbians:

Ranting about fitting both bi and lesbian and being forced out of the mspec label for no reason other than making sure no lesbian is ever bi:

Why people who DO like men might still identify as lesbians

Exclusively a lesbian... But still attracted to men?

A response to "enby people are already inherently included so using bi is useless":

Not my explanation:

Another explanation, for an asker:

another expo abt nb people being inherently included:

There are more than 2 genders:

Bilesbophobia is queerphobia:

"non-man" has racist origins:

Easiest bi lesbians to learn about FIRST:

Anon's experience with potentially being a bi lesbian:

You aren't losing your label or its meaning don't worry:

My main account explains why "nonmen loving nonmen" isn't monosexual:

Silly posting with some explanations sprinkled within:

Not my post, but has a lot of evidence for the historical existence of bisexual lesbians

Also not my post, but covers a lot of potential experiences and I really like it

"But wait! I read somewhere on a carrd that "bi lesbian" was a term created by TERFs!" Polling on the blog indicates otherwise.

[dvoth-liomoqai]

Add this because I like this post

Mspec Lesbian and Aspec

[bilesproblems]

While that is a banger post I don't necessarily consider it a sort of "intro to bi lesbians" type of informative post on the identity, it's more a broader discussion on community overlap, so that's why I didn't include it. But I appreciate that you liked it!

[skunksrulecopsdont]

Just let bisexuals be lesbians