crShelidon

I write. Like all the time. Currently drafting a series of Gothic Novels. - Blog at www.shelidon.it - Patreon at patreon.com/crshelidon -

[redstonedust]

the thing that bothers me with 7 deadly sin based characters is when they cant decide if they embody the sin by suffering from it or by drawing it out of others. ie. if your gluttony demon is a guy who loves eating then your lust demon should be a gooner sex pest. and if your lust demon is a seductive girlboss then your gluttony demon should be a 5 star chef. does this make sense.

[crshelidon]

So basically Wrath can either be someone who’s always pissed or someone who has a real talent for pissing people off.

[crshelidon]

I see people complaining about plot holes in books and tv series, and yet one of my favorite operas features a woman who somehow manages to burn the wrong child because… she gets distracted or something.

[hatchetfield-scarecrow]

There’s two ends of the horror spectrum

[ramblesamongstardust]

[redmegarex]

your house is fucked up

[bob-belcher]

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (1989) dir. Steven Spielberg

[voyaging-too]

It's a cliché to say that Tolkien's experiences in WWI affected all aspects of his writing, how he wrote about friendship and grief, how he wrote about desolate blasted landscapes. But I wish someone who knows more about Tolkien's military career could help me understand how Tolkien related to retreats. His description of Faramir keeping his people together on the retreat from Osgiliath is one of the best-written sequences in the trilogy, and hardly anyone remembers it. It's about a desperate retreat, and a leader whose presence, whose strength manages to keep it from turning into a rout. There's something very vivid in the descriptions: don't break formation, don't start running or they'll pick you off one by one, keep together, keep moving, hold all of that fear at bay. Tolkien describes that retreat as genuinely heroic, a superhuman act of will, one that exhausts Faramir almost to death, and Denethor still does not accept it as heroic because it's a retreat. It saved men but it lost territory, therefore in his eyes it's a failure.

Tolkien has strong opinions about heroic retreats, in the Silmarillion he sometimes gives the retreat-through-the-dangerous-wilderness plotline to female characters (Emeldir, Idril), he always writes them with respect. Sometimes, getting out of there and keeping most of your people alive is a great act of valour. I feel like he must have had a personal experience about what it means to retreat, and what it means to hold a retreat together, and what it means to get no thanks for it.

[anghraine]

While I don't know much about WWI, I think it's worth mentioning that Denethor does not regard Faramir's retreat as a failure per se. On the contrary, his entire strategy depends on Faramir leading a slow retreat, and it's Faramir who had reservations.

In Tolkien's version, the geography and architecture of the region very much favor the Gondorians, but they're drastically outnumbered. So the strategy is for the Gondorian armies to inflict massive casualties as they retreat over favorable ground, including half of Osgiliath, the river crossing, the Rammas Echor (the wall around the Pelennor Fields), and then through the farms and townlands of the Pelennor Fields. Meanwhile, Denethor has the knights of Dol Amroth prepared to burst out of the city in a shock cavalry attack as soon as the retreating army starts to get overwhelmed, allowing the remaining infantry to get safely within the city. Denethor is also careful to order the knights back in the city as well so they don't get overextended, preserving the bulk of his armies. This occurs over several days, essentially forcing Sauron's armies to spend multiple days repeatedly attacking and overwhelming these highly defensible locations before they ever get near Minas Tirith, taking heavy losses as they go.

This is an incredibly risky and dangerous strategy because it essentially trades the lives of a portion of the Gondorian army for the chance to drastically slow Mordor's assault and inflict massive casualties—but the defending armies are less able to afford these kinds of losses with 9/10 of the country's armies elsewhere. So Faramir's position is that the trade-off is too high even if they're successful. Denethor's is that, well, it has to be done anyway, and requires a highly skilled commander to pull it off successfully. Faramir is likely the only person in Gondor other than Denethor himself who could conceivably carry it out the way it needs to be done with Nazgûl and evil magic afoot, and in fact carries out the strategy precisely as planned while under the effects of the Black Breath. Faramir manages to hold his troops together as long as he's conscious (he falls partly from the illness and partly because he stayed with the rearguard—the most vulnerable part of the army in a retreat—to get all his men to safety) and 2/3 of the infantry he's leading survive to fight in the later battle.

The days taken up by this punishing tactical retreat end up buying the necessary time for both the Rohirrim and the southern Gondorian armies to reach Minas Tirith and relieve the siege. As a result, Sauron's armies never even get past the front gate of the city, and their numbers are reduced when they have to defend themselves against the Rohirrim and the armies brought by Aragorn. It comes at a steep price—Denethor bitterly describes himself as "spending even my sons" and a lot of Gondorian lives are lost, even if the larger portion of the army is preserved.

I actually this is important to the original point, though, because all this makes it an excellent example of what the OP is talking about—retreat as both clearly heroic and, in the right circumstances, an entirely valid and effective strategy if you can carry it out.

[voyaging-too]

This addition is great, you're right. It's important to remember that the retreat in question is acknowledged to be tactically useful, and that the Denethor of the books, for all his flaws, is wiser and more restrained than the Denethor of the movies.

What makes Faramir's return so horrible is that he has to do it twice. When he first rides back to Minas Tirith, with only a small company, the Nazgul attack, and his own bravery and determination wouldn't be enough to save him if Gandalf didn't show up. We are told, textually, that Faramir is severely fucked up by this episode: he "has been assailed by a great fear or anguish, but has mastered it and now is quiet." That's Tolkien-speak for "screaming internally." He's exhausted, his spirit is spent already, he's holding himself together at a cost. And then he is sent out to halt the enemy's advance over the same field, still harassed by Nazgul, knowing already how bad it's going to be.

Yes, the decision to send Faramir out with the men on a slow retreat is tactically sound, it slows down the Enemy, but not as much as hoped: Sauron had planned out the river crossing, he had a whole bunch of barges ready, his forces were across the very next day, they have "paid dearly for the crossing, but less dearly than we hoped." Which means that his retreat is, in some ways, the opposite of what I associated with it in my original post: instead of abandoning land to save people, Faramir is forced to spend people, not even to gain or keep land, but to lose it slower.

(Also book!Denethor is not a slavering douchebag like he's in the movies, but he still blames Faramir for not taking a ring, still overtly says he wishes Faramir had died in Boromir's place, and still sends him out on a definitely dangerous, potentially suicidal mission with very little love. He's not saying that this is mission is necessary to save Minas Tirith, and that he trusts Faramir's skills as a captain to pull such a horrendously difficult thing off. He's saying that Boromir would have done it better, and implies that if Faramir hesitates to go out, he "lacks the courage to do his lord's will." Rancid parenting. His grief over having had to "spend his son" comes way later, when Faramir's already unconscious and there's no risk of him hearing it.)

[atrusofmyst]

Back to the original question, both the foreword to the 2nd edition and John Garth's "Tolkien and the great War" exclude that Tolkien's experiences in WW1 had any direct influence on the plot of LoTR.

To address the first comment, the devastation of the Somme, where his battalion was in reserve for the first week, was more of an influence for the Dead Marshes and the approach to Morannon.

Tolkien may have witnessed the human cost of a strategic retreat in the battle of Thiepval Ridge, but LoTR is not a war memoir, so the idea for it or its plot necessity in the book may have come from literally anywhere else.

On a broader note, however, he lost many of his close college friends during the War and faced the dichotomy of his personal loss and grieving versus the glorification of their "noble" sacrifice from the military higher-ups and the government. Denethor, especially in the movies, becomes a mix of both, grieving the loss of his favored son while lamenting that the other didn't properly do his job by dying for his country instead of returning home wounded. And on a closer parallel to Faramir, Tolkien too left the war early (because of trench fever) and had to spend time in a hospital back home away from battle while the people he knew were dying. Lots to unpack there.

[crshelidon]

My very giod friend @atrusofmyst already mentioned the primary book on the topic (of course he did). As a counterpoint, I would like to add that we often put loads of effort to emphasize how Tolkien did not intend LOTR to be a metaphor (or God forbid an ALLEGORY) of some kind, and therefore we’re pretty deinitive in saying the war didn’t have much influence on Tolkien’s work. While Tolkien himself in the foreword to the second edition, alrady mentioned by Atrus, he himself writes: “An author cannot of course remain wholly unaffected by his experience, but the ways in which a story-germ uses the soil of experience are extremely complex, and attempts to define the process are at best guesses from evidence that is inadequate and ambiguous.” I think it’s safe to say he did not intend any of the events to be inspired by the war, because he says so himself, but it’s also safe to say some of them might have been and we’ll never know, just as much as he did not. Makes sense?

[faderifter]

there’s a class of anders fan or anders post that tries to love him “despite”, that tries to love him through forgiveness or understanding of his supposed wrongs. let me make it so clear that for me, blowing up the chantry is in fact one of anders best features and so hot of him

[bipolarmango]

My doctor and therapist: now with this autism + ADHD diagnosis you need to learn to unmask because masking all the time will make you burn out again and feel like shit

Other people: well it's just interesting how after getting the diagnosis you suddenly start behaving like that I mean I'm not saying you're faking it's just funny how you suddenly cannot be normal like you were before

[regionalpancake]

THIS IS SO TRUE!

bUt yOu nEveR hAd a pRoBLem wiTH this bEfOre?!

BITCH I have spent 35 years thinking I was just inherently bad at being a person, now I find out I have a disability? That it’s actually (checks notes) NOT THIS HARD FOR EVERYONE?! What the fuck do you mean other people aren’t getting distracted because they can hear the electricity?! Yeah I think I’m gonna give myself a break actually. The microwave IS too loud, now fuck off.

[03josten]

stop fucking using the word psychotic to describe bad behaviour and violence already god fucking damn it

[03josten]

oh my god i’m so tired psychotic does not mean violent it does not mean angry or erratic. it refers to a person suffering from psychosis, a loss of touch with reality that includes hallucinations and/or delusions. psychotic people are not inherently violent and y'all need to understand how much stigma you create when you again and again incorrectly use the word psychotic without even thinking about it

[03josten]

would appreciate if non-psychotic people could reblog this

[dankmemeuniversity]

[spacegay-archetype]

Cunk on Earth and Dragon age Origins 😭 please my Dalish Warden walking around asking the dumbest questions to his companions about the history and religion of Thedas because he was so sheltered

[ladyinquisidork]

Fallout Minecraft is almost certainly a thing. Fallout Dragon age would be much more interesting.

[the-font-bandit]

Crime Scene Kitchen Dragon Age feels terribly imbalanced, Lucanis has an unfair advantage. 😂

[atrusofmyst]

The Show That Goes Wrong x Final Fantasy XIV

...that's basically a Hildibrand side quest.

[crshelidon]

Ellery Queen and Dragon Age Veilguard is basically just a Neve spin-off.

[abby-lynn-xx]

MUPPETS FROM SPACE (1999)

[crshelidon]

Quiz: guess which one I picked.

[crshelidon]

I know I should have spotted it sooner, but I just realized that my Rook is... well... barefoot. She's been barefoot through the blight, pools of boiling blood, a literal floor of lava, venomous mushrooms and whatever the fuck that green thing in the Necropolis is. All this time Neve and Lucanis have been complaining about stains and ruined boots, and she's just shrugging it off and scraping one sole against the shin of the other leg. I love her.

[steampunkforever]

I would still use my turn signals in the Mad Max Wasteland. They'd call me "Signal" because I'd hit my blinker before ramming the enemy hot rods into the side of a desert ravine. I'd use my turn signal every time. They would respect me for this.

[kraken17]

"That is Signal, the Last Follower of the Old Law."

[crshelidon]

I had a feeling this was a Sixth Sense kind of thing and then Baldie told me, with a smirk, that at least I still have my friend to talk to, and I think I'll go to my in-house Necromancer to brainstorm a way to kill his ass MULTIPLE TIMES.

[crshelidon]

I KNEW IT!

I just knew you couldn't trust a guy named ILARIO.

[feedmecomicart]

I KNOW HOW MY FILTHY MUTANT ABILITIES UPSET YOU, SCHMIDT. DON’T WORRY–

–YOU WILL DIE PURE. NO MAGNETISM 

JUST FISTS.

[harleyismyhero-deactivated20190]

reblog Magneto punching a Nazi

you won’t get anything for it, except for a kickass photoset of Magneto punching a Nazi on your blog

[crshelidon]

"A proper teacher never makes their students feel inadequate."

THANKS Emmrich. Good to see I'm not the only one thinking Taash's mother is full of crap.