If Ivan had seen at least one piece of art of himself by Till, he would’ve realized he actually was important to Till.
That’s because Ivan saw Till’s devotion to Mizi, and he saw Till draw Mizi all the time, so he linked love = art with Till. That is why seeing himself being drawn by Till would’ve let Ivan realize that Till actually loved Ivan and cared for him.
Now, Till, being the avoidant and confused boy he is, never showed Ivan his portraits and actively hid them from him instead. I like to think that this is because the flower crown Ivan crushed was made for Ivan, and thus Till equated doing things for Ivan with his efforts going to waste and being destroyed. Because of that, he believed it would be better to silently create and keep it to himself. No artist would want their creations to be destroyed.
I think this perfectly shows the nature of Ivan and Till’s relationship.
Ivan didn’t know how to communicate his emotions and intentions → he didn’t tell Till that he crushed the flower to prevent them from being monitored. Ivan acts to protect, but doesn’t explain.
Till jumped to conclusions too fast--> Ivan didn't appreciate his creations( and for someone who puts his soul into his creations, it equated to Ivan not appreciating him), so if love leads to loss, better to hide the love. Silent devotion over out loud rejection
Thus, just like the presence of art was proof of presence of love, the absence of art became the proof of absence of love. That is why Ivan internalized he wasn't even worthy of a single drawing.
This cycle kept repeating and even tho they reached an equilibrium, it was not a peaceful one.
The love existed but recognition didn't.
The best way to describe their love is that they both loved the other in their own language, but Ivan didn't speak till's language and till didn't speak Ivan's language, so they sat in an uncomfortable silence. By the time till learnt Ivan's language he was ... watching over the kids in anakt.
p.s-and dont come saying till didnt like ivan, you dont draw mulitple potraits of someone you dont like.
Can already imagine a video coming out in June. It It will be about the trio of survivors, but has AU inserts like in Wiege.
On top of that, these inserts will include that very same scene by sea where Till kisses Ivan (actually, I'm sure it's part of the VIVINOS school AU lore, you won't convince me otherwise; the clothes are the same)
Aaaand…
After that, we'll see a thousand posts about how this is just a Mizi's fantasy, because she wants everything to be good and love between Ivan and Till, and for Till not to flirt with her.
It's a rambling post, but it's been sitting in my drafts for quite a while, so let's get it out there
It may not seem obvious, but in my opinion, Till and Luka have far more parallels than Luka and Ivan.
People often attribute Luka-like traits to Ivan, and frankly, it upsets me. Ivan is no saint, and Luka no saint, but they are quite different, and it's probably an unpopular opinion, but I believe the ROMH song is completely unsuitable for Ivan, simply because he's not like that person.
Till is.
Of course, Luka and Till are also different people in many ways, with different worldviews and different upbringings. But if we look at them:
they are both considered geniuses of their generation;
both won that competition in Anakt, which others believe is a precursor to victory at ALNST;
they are both immersed in their own reality;
they both need a sense of control. Contrary to popular belief, I don't see this in Ivan. But I see it in Till and Luka;
they both belong to the introvert type and both are classified by the authors as “hungry for love” (like Sua, with whom Till, no matter how funny, also has a lot in common);
They both belong to the jealous type (and Sua). Ivan is officially completely non-jealous. It might not be obvious with Till, who doesn't seem jealous of Mizi's relationship with Sua, but we already have enough hints to suspect that Till was jealous of Ivan's relationships with others.
Honestly, this all debate about whether Till didn't suffer enough over the loss of Ivan so confuses me.
I don't understand if all these people are just strange biters, or if they truly can't put two and two together.
I should say right away that I'm not talking about people who just want to see more content. I'm also looking forward to it, and we've been told several times that a lot has already been drawn and will see the light of day. Is that normal? A good story should be presented in measured doses, not dumped on the reader all at once.
But I've also seen comments that Hyuluka has more development than Ivantill and… huh? Hyuluka, for me, is exactly the pairing I'm still waiting for to be revealed (I love all three pairings and am excited to hear more details about them). Their story is still full of questions and gaps, while Ivantill is mostly clear and straightforward.
Look at this
Isn't that enough for you to say, "Yes, he suffered and is still coping with his grief"? Since when has smiling and trying to live with what a loved one left behind been synonymous with renunciation and burn the boats?
Till has been experiencing constant hallucinations of Ivan for three years, three, fkn years, at least. His neck is literally a permanent, unhealed symbol of the depth of his grief. And even seven years later, Till constantly touches his scars.
In the RoMH and Karma covers, his voice trembles, he's either crying, or half a step away from it. Are you really, knowing the entire story's lore, 100% sure that "oh yeah, Till is sooo upset about Mizi and her disappearance"?
We have a five-minute song, every line of which speaks volumes about Till's feelings for Ivan. What do you mean, "that's not enough"? You should be able to figure this out just by sitting down and going through the text step by step.
First verse: from this we learn that Till hasn't slept for at least half the night again. He was drawing, and I think we can all guess who he was drawing, given the comics the song directly references.
The fact that Till's life isn't easy and carefree is already evident here. To get out, he needs to stop, hold his throat, and convince himself he's okay. The behavior of a man living a carefree life. Absolutely not stressed, absolutely not dwelling on his loss, unlike Mizi and Luka, aha.
Next comes the part that literally screams about Ivan. I honestly don't know how anyone can be so indifferent think that the song doesn't convey Till's feelings for Ivan.
Thanks to "blade Ivan gave him that day," Till is able to walk on real, not artificial, grass. He literally says he breathes the air Ivan left behind. And that the more the feeling of Ivan's presence fades, the more the rue blossoms — a symbol of grief. It's directly a lyric that Till's grief only intensifies over time, not diminishes.
"Yes, I read you."
(Who is he talking about? Probably Sua.)
The first version of the chorus.
Again, Till explicitly states that "disappearance isn't the end" and that even if some details fade over time, "scars remember everything." (Which I personally think is a wonderful and profound line, I also really like how it references the comics, connecting the line together in a way we might not have thought of).
Next comes a direct reference to Ivan's death, which Till can't erase from his memory, no matter how much he wants to.
Second verse: No matter how much Till wants to hold on to his memories, they fade with the years. That's normal. None of us can clearly remember memories from years past, no matter how precious they are. That's how memory works.
But he says, "It's okay, despite the cold, I know your warmth."
I like the duality of translation here. This can be interpreted as meaning that even though "the rue blossoms stronger and stronger," Till still knows and remembers. But it could also be a reference to Paratise, to the idea that even though Ivan couldn't express feelings like a "normal person," everything is okay, Till sees and accepts it.
The next part: I also like the duality of the interpretation here. Till recalls Round 6, saying that his light went out that day in the rain. He's talking about the events of the Scar comic, segueing into Remember everything. The way he describes it is simultaneously something malevolent and dark, and at the same time, he describes this dark presence as "warm." Something that only intensified until he finally realized the truth.
Second version of the chorus: it's subtle here, but the essence changes slightly. It seems to me that while the first chorus spoke more about Till's first three or four years in postcanon, this version speaks more to Till in the present, seven years after the tragedy.
However, the message remains that even if disappearance is the end, it's a blurred end. Memory may have erased the clarity of recollections, but there is something it can never erase.
Till remembers and knows the feeling of loss, emptiness, and recognizes the light he and Ivan created. And even if he moves forward, lives, breathes, and enjoys the present, his days pass meaninglessly.
Till mentions light more than once. This wasn't just in "Scars," but right now I'm focused specifically on what's in this song. Till's light faded during the sixth round. But now, the light reflects off "blade Ivan left behind," and Till forever remembers "light they made together."
Ivan is his light. Ivan is the reason Till lives, smiles, and tries to move forward. He's the one Till thinks about every day. This song expresses that so much. To say that Till doesn't suffer enough is simply invalidating someone else's feelings. Not just the character's, but anyone trying to cope with their grief.
And no, Ivan wouldn't want Till to lie in a corner, cry, tear his throat out, bleed to death, and die. Ivan wanted Till to continue to shine, even when he can no longer stand beside him. Till's current life is what Ivan died for. Till's life is Ivan's life. If you can't grasp such a simple thing, I can only pity you; you're missing such an important and beautiful part of the story.
I understand that some details may escape the general perception, given the inaccuracies of translation or interpretation, but still, there is a lot in this that is difficult not to notice, no matter how hard you try. And.... This people... Who are you all.... Have you even paid attention to what you see and read…?
It's constantly reiterated how naturally gentle Till's love is, and when he opens up as a person and grows up, his ability to reach out to others with love becomes so strong. It really brings me back to how emotionally stagnant he and Ivan were in the past, just like the way Till references it in RE-- Ivan being awkward and indirect and unable to properly create balance while communicating with Till's emotional depth, as he was such a suppressed person. However, he was still trying to express gentleness and care in his own way.
Then there is Till, years later, who has always harbored this kind of love, and now becomes so naturally attuned to Ivan that he learns how to respond to him emotionally and connect with him in the best way he can. Now, even after the continuous struggle, he doesn't run away. He can "read" him and identify Ivan's cues. Till understands him so much that in his mind, he can keep Ivan from leaving his world this time through living and preserving everything (and remembering what he can now realize was Ivan's attempts at reaching him, too).... read my soul and scars remember everything man
It's a guarantee that all the struggle and genuine care they had for each other that couldn't be communicated will be remembered now with permanence. These two are truly inseparable forever
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