I never ship characters, either in canon or in fanon, in the sense of advocating for a certain pairing. But I like romance and seeing characters get together if it tells a good story. And Pinecest makes for such great drama. There’s just so much that can go wrong from falling in love with your sibling. There’s the usual denial, guilt, and self-doubt right off the bat once one of them starts having these unbidden feelings for their twin. I think it would manifest differently in each of them: Dipper, who doesn’t have a lot of relationship experience, would worry that he’s turning into a desperate freak because he’s too pathetic to have any success with other girls. Mabel would probably see it as more of an outside affliction, a pattern of crazy thoughts that she can’t keep out of her head, until she comes to terms with it. Both of them might worry that the platonic love they already have for the other is just a rationalization to justify their sexual attraction.
Both of them would be terrified of the other’s potential reaction. And they have so much to lose, because they already have a really good, close relationship and you can’t just go back to normal after dropping a bomb like “I love you” if it isn’t reciprocated. They’d both worry that the other one would back off from hearing how they really feel about them, and their existing relationship would suffer as they try to put some distance between them to dispel/ignore the awkwardness. Each of them might try to put some distance between them anyway, to try to clear their heads and avoid giving something away that would freak out their sibling. It’s such great irony that after everything they’ve already survived, and all the stuff that could have put a rift between them but didn’t, that the thing that feels like it might drive them apart for good is loving the other one too much, or at least loving them in the wrong kind of way.
Then of course there’s worrying about what their parents would think if they found out, or their friends, or the other kids at school. And that’s not a problem that goes away even when they realize their feelings for each other are mutual, because unlike a lot of romantic setups, this one can’t be resolved just by saying “Get over it and get together already.” Overcoming their fear and finding out they aren’t going to lose each other over these crazy feelings and deciding they WANT to be in love is only the beginning of the story.
Because once they’re together, they have to keep it a secret from everybody. And it’s not as simple as just deciding to never deliberately tell anyone. The small, nonverbal gestures they make without thinking about it could betray their secret: holding hands for too long in public, too many glances at dinner, looking too eager to meet each other in the hallways after class. There may be one or two jokes that catch them off guard, and whether they had genuine suspicion behind them or not, it would rattle them pretty badly and they’d have to start paying more attention to how they behave around others and learn to clamp down on anything suspicious. Part of what makes it such good drama is that even when they’re alone, every display of affection, every kiss, every sexual encounter carries a sense of danger behind it. And, not coincidentally, it makes the sex REALLY hot for both them and the reader, since they must be completely crazy for each other if they’re willing to take the risk.
And it’s not just the risk of being discovered—there’s also the risk of one or both of them winding up not liking it once they go past a certain point, and things turning weird from then on. But there’s also the risk associated with them not turning away, and deciding they really like it and want to continue. I bet thinking about that possibility would act as a latent fear while they’re still sorting things out early on. It would be incredibly scary to think that a romantic, sexual relationship with your sibling is something you actually want, and they also want, because once they realize that about both of them, there’s no more room for denial or rationalization. It’s here, they’ve acted on it, and now they have to decide what to do about that.
Despite this being a crackship, I can identify three elements to their relationship that make a romantic connection, if not exactly likely, then still enough within the realm of possibility that I don’t dismiss it on sight, and am actually really intrigued by it. The first is the really strong bond they already share. The twins bond in a way that most siblings don’t, and even in a way that most lovers don’t. They’re more than brother and sister: they’re best friends, they’re each other’s closest ally. Their shared adventures and experiences have tested them and molded their character; they’ve learned to depend on each other, and that they can depend on each other; they fill in the missing facets of each other’s personalities and help the other do what they can’t do on their own. A lot of people in a relationship will say their partner will have their back through anything; it’s something else entirely to know the person you count on will have your back because they’ve already been there while dealing with monsters and maniacs and phenomena that would make most people’s brains break. Dipper already knows that his sister can figure out how to save him from a possessing demon; Mabel knows her brother will dive off a cliff to save her from a kidnapper driving a giant robot. And there’s always just the normal, everyday emotional support that follows things like romantic rejection or a crappy day.
The second element is trauma. A lot of their adventures have been lighthearted and fun, but a few of them definitely haven’t. There’s been kidnapping by cultists and almost being eaten by zombies and dream demons stealing bodies and whatever the heck is coming down the pike with Weirdmageddon. I imagine it’s worse for Dipper, but it left scars on both of them. There’s no one else in the world that they’ll be able to relate better to about everything they’ve been through and everything that’s hurt and scared them. They can talk to them, they never have to worry they won’t believe them, and they’ll understand because they went through it too, and they’ll never try to explain away their feelings. They’ll just accept the other person and their feelings for what they are, and be there and support the other when they’re feeling vulnerable or hurt, because they know their twin will do the exact same thing for them when they feel down.
The third element is fear. Given their incredibly strong twin bond, and the way that siblings naturally drift apart, I think both of them harbor some latent fear that despite everything they’ve accomplished with their relationship, they’ll lose it just by the natural process of growing up. Living apart, meeting new people, forming new bonds, outgrowing old roles. Seeing less of each other and spending less time together. They’ve survived a lot of things that could have ended their relationship by resulting in one of them dying, but what if their relationship were to end anyway by the unstoppable and normal progression of time? It terrifies them both to think about how it may dissolve on its own accord, given how much they’ve done for each other and how much they still need each other. It chills them to think about what it means for love, for bonds, for people in general if two people could go through all that and still grow apart. If they didn’t have each other in their lives, then they would be alone in certain ways that could never be filled, no matter who else they let in. They need each other, they want to spend time together, they want to experience life together. And it hits them, even before falling in love enters the mix, that they want to be in each other’s lives until they naturally come to an end. And they come to realize, piece by piece, that the things most people look for in a partner can already be found in their twin: the ability to confide in someone, understanding each other’s quirks and bullshit and likes and vulnerabilities, trusting them with their secrets and knowing they won’t run away. All of this makes for a really strong, positive, enduring platonic relationship. And it might not have ever gone beyond that, but once the feelings of being in love and, yes, sexual attraction start to appear, it’s not such a ridiculous premise anymore. You can almost look at it and say “Yeah. This makes sense.”
But it’s not something that comes easily. Even beyond the effort of keeping it a secret, there are all the things it costs them to be in a relationship, and a hidden one at that. They can’t get married. They can’t raise a family. They can’t share their happiness with anyone else, hear a friend say “I’m so happy for you two!” or beam with pride when they bring somebody home that Mom and Dad approve of. They always have to act mysterious when dealing with people’s questioning attitudes, and it isn’t questions like “Are they banging?” It’s questions like “Are they okay?” “Are they lonely?” Dipper gets questions about where this new upbeat attitude is coming from, and he has to shrug and dismiss them with a bullshit non-answer. Mabel has to deal with people asking why she suddenly isn’t so interested in boys anymore, or, depending on the circumstances preceding her relationship with Dipper, why she broke up with her previous boyfriend, and she can’t offer an explanation. People worry about them, and it hurts that they can’t tell anybody that they’re fine, that they’re better than fine, because it would violate their secret. The world of outside relationships, both individual and mutual, grows smaller and murkier as they accumulate more and more that they can never tell anyone else, that they have to work to keep a constant secret. Dipper and Mabel will always have to be on guard around the people who care about them. They have to restrain their affection towards each other when they’re with friends and family to avoid giving anything away. They may even back away from the level of sibling affection they used to demonstrate with each other as an extra level of caution. They may grow nervous around other people, and, if not overtly resent them, then at least start avoiding them more and more out of plain discomfort. They also lose the benefit of emotional support from other people if their relationship ever enters a rocky patch. They can’t talk about it with anybody except in really vague terms, and anyone who knew them well enough might figure out what they really meant. Their relationship with each other weighed against their relationships with other people begins to feel like a zero-sum game: either they distance themselves from loved ones, or they deny their true feelings for each other. And while they’d almost certainly decide to put up walls around other people instead of their twin, the possibility still takes up space in their minds. And they’d feel especially guilty about the idea, because they wouldn’t just be denying themselves; they’d be denying their sibling the affection and closeness they want and need. Neither of them would be okay with cutting off their twin just because they feel afraid.
What I love about the drama in Pinecest is that it doesn’t feel contrived. It’s one of the few romantic premises I can remember that could be billed as “dark and dangerous” and I would take that seriously.
I think the only sensible ultimate outcome for their relationship is to end. That red and white comic where they break up—the one that begins with Mabel saying “I’m sorry”—is my favorite out of everything in the whole fandom. We don’t know why they’ve decided to end their relationship, but we can take a guess. The strain of secrecy and isolation has been wearing on them. They’ve looked ahead, even had conversations about their future if they stay together: a lifetime of hiding, of worrying, of compromised relationships with other people, of always being dishonest with the people they love. When they were starting out, the secrecy and danger were legitimately exciting. But now that they’re a little older, and they’ve gotten used to hiding from people—hell, they’ve gotten good at hiding from people—it feels like a prison they’ve built for themselves. The danger isn’t exciting anymore, but oppressive. They know that either one day they’ll be found out, and there’ll be hell to pay, plus interest once everybody figures out why they’ve been acting so strangely for years; or that they’ll live with the fear of that happening for the rest of their lives.
Or to really twist the knife, they’ll realize they don’t necessarily have to live with it for the rest of their lives, but just until the end of certain other people’s lives. Grunkle Stan, their parents—the people who would care about the nature of their relationship will die off one by one, and though it would mean freedom to be what they want to be, neither of them wants anybody to die just so they can live without fear. Mabel would probably voice that objection first, in one of several heart-rending conversations they have during those nights when it occurs to them what they’re giving up by being together. In a panic, they may consider moving away—packing up and leaving for a distant city where nobody knows them, nobody knows their history, and they could behave however they wanted around the new friends they’d make. But it would mean leaving behind family and the friends they already have, and it would rip their hearts in two—Mabel’s especially, and Dipper knows she’d take it badly. And there still would be secrets to keep, and fronts to put up: Do they change their names? Do they pretend to be married, with wedding rings and a phony marriage certificate and everything? No matter what they chose, they’d always have some element of lying laid over the entirety of their lives. And even though nobody in their new town would know who they were, if they got close enough to them, they might find something amiss with their story and uncover the truth; and then Dipper and Mabel would have to reset by packing up again and running to another place where nobody knew them. A life of being enigmatic and hiding the truth from everyone isn’t what they had in mind when they decided to call themselves the Mystery Twins!
So the Pines twins will almost certainly break up. But it’s okay. It’s really okay. Even though this is a crazy crackship, them being in love was never the point. The sexual attraction was never the point, nor the transgressive thrill, nor even the angst and drama that unfolds from all of it. The point is happiness. Pinecest is about the two of them being together in whatever way they want or need to be. The relationship was never the goal; preserving their BOND was the goal. Happiness is the goal. The attraction they felt for each other was almost an obstacle, in its own way. And they know now, after all of this, that the bond between them is stronger than ever. That they’ll ALWAYS have each other. This relationship tested them more than anything they’ve ever been through, and even as they step into a future that looks a little more uncertain, and will have a little bit less of each other in it, their belief in their bond is stronger than ever. It’s something that goes beyond being twins, or friends, or lovers. They may not know exactly how to describe it, and they don’t know what’s going to happen next, but they do know the two of them will be all right.
Happiness is the goal. Ultimately, this is all about two people doing whatever it takes to make them happy. When they fell in love and decided to stay that way, and when the pain of being together led them to break up, they did it because it felt like the right thing to do, in both times, in both moments. And looking back, it seems obvious that their relationship couldn’t have lasted forever. It had to end someday, but it was still better for both of them to take that risk and go down that road and grow together, than it would have been to deny their feelings and never done anything about it at all. And what do you say about something that’s doomed to end, but absolutely still worth doing? Well, that’s pretty much life, isn’t it?
(Thank you for hearing me out if you made it through all of this. I really enjoy the art you make for this fandom, and I wanted to show my appreciation.)
yooo you actually did it! and heyyy i read through it all and these are actually pretty legit. nice thoughts you got here anonymous martin, congrats, you get pinecest! and glad to be of cesty service to you. i mean that in the uh. non weird way
i've been losing my mind over how poetic the korean lyrics are, so i tried translating them a little more closely to the original! there are so many implications and so much nuance that it's simply impossible to fully convey them in english, due to vocab and syntax differences, so there will be a ton of translation notes below. please cry over this tragic pair with me :")
[ disclaimer: i am in no way trying to imply that the official translations are subpar, because they're actually really good — it's difficult to convey the full extent of meaning while remaining concise enough for closed captions! i just want to share my own take on the original lyrics ^^ ]
r o u n d 6 — c u r e
Please permit me, till the tips of your hands
Please permit me, till the tips of your feet
I wish for you to melt me within your eyes
I don't want to lose you
I plead of you, inflict wounds upon me
I plead of you, make it so that I am hurting
Until not a single drop of me remains
I dissolve in you
Till these stars, which will crumble
Buried within eternity, which will fade into a blur
At the edge of your frigid lips
Read me, please
That's right, me
Even the sharp words you gave me
Even if they leave scratches beneath my eyes
I wish they remain upon your tongue
Even if everything is shattered, it's okay
Now, please, look at my wounds
Now, please, cure me
Just so that my unease may be dampened
So that I dissolve into you
Above these nights, which will be drawn
Screaming into the silence, which will collapse
Within your pupils that gaze at me
Drink me, please
That's right, me
This song without an end
Towards each other, we dance
Our story, buried within eternity
Till these stars, which will crumble
Buried within eternity, which will fade into a blur
At the edge of your frigid lips
Read me, please
That's right, me
Above these nights, which will be drawn
Screaming into the silence, which will collapse
Within your pupils that gaze at me
Drink me, please
That's right, me
[ translation notes below the cut. ]
━━━━⊱⋆⊰━━━━
translation notes
"please permit me"
허락해줘, please grant me permission; implying the person Till is singing to (henceforth Mizi, for brevity) has authority over him.
"I wish for you to..." vs "I wish..."
a slight difference in conjugation; Till wishes that Mizi will do that action for him, whereas Ivan simply wishes for things to be a certain way.
"I don't want to lose you"
놓치다, to lose something or someone by missing them or failing to catch them; implies less agency and control than "to let go."
"I plead of you, inflict wounds upon me" / "I plead of you, make it so that I am hurting"
부디, implying an earnest entreaty, a fervent plea.
here, the conjugation has Till asking Mizi to give him wounds, and give him pain.
"I dissolve in you" vs "so that I dissolve into you"
there is no exact translation for 물들다 (conjugated into 물들어 and 물들게 in the lyrics), but picture this: watercolour paints soaking into a white canvas, permeating across it, imbuing it.
difference in adpositions: Till says 너로, indicating "by" or "with," whereas Ivan says 네게 (너에게), indicating "to" or "towards". so for Till, Mizi is the colour and he is the canvas, whereas for Ivan, he is the colours that are spreading towards Till.
difference in conjugations: Till says 물들어, in present tense and active voice, while Ivan says 물들게 [하다], to make a certain state happen (note that this is different from the ~ㄹ 게 conjugation that indicates future intention). Ivan is saying please notice my pain and heal it, so that I permeate into you, which would then quieten my unease.
"which will crumble" / "which will fade into a blur"
the ~ㄹ conjugation here is a future indicative tense; the action it describes will happen, the state it describes will come to be.
무너질, "will crumble;" to fall by crumbling, crumpling, caving in, breaking down.
흐려질, "will grow blurry;" i chose to translate this as the more poetic "fade into a blur."
"buried within eternity"
묻힌, from 묻히다, to be buried; this word can also mean "to be stained," giving the phrase an alternative meaning of "stained upon eternity."
"read me, please" / "that's right, me"
the official translation says "read my soul," which might indicate the meaning that the creators intended, but the original korean lyrics only says "me."
"그래," which i translated as "that's right," can be used in many contexts with varying nuance; it is an acknowledgement and a simple, light agreement. in some contexts, it can be perfunctory, in others, it can be an acceptance.
"even if the sharp words you gave me" / "even if they leave scratches beneath my eyes"
here, Ivan is downplaying the extent of hurt that Till has inflicted upon him. Till may use sharp-edged language, but Ivan describes these words as being given to him, almost as if they are a gift, implying he treasures every word Till throws his way. the word used for "scratches" is often used to describe scrapes left by fingernails; shallow, surface-level wounds.
"even if everything is shattered, it's okay"
부숴, from 부수다, to break, smash, shatter. the official translation says "you can break me apart," which might reflect the meaning that the creators intended, but since the subject and object can be omitted in korean and still be grammatically correct, this sentence doesn't indicate the subject that is doing the breaking or the object that is being broken apart.
"now, please, look at my wounds" / "now, please, cure me"
the word for "wounds," 상처, can also be used to refer to scars, but i chose the former to indicate the open wounds that Ivan wishes Till will cure.
"just so that my unease may be dampened"
그저, "just," implying that Ivan doesn't want for much, he is only asking for this small and simple wish.
불안, unease. it's not quite as intense as "fears," though it can be an indicator of it; it's closer to worries or anxieties.
가라앉도록, from 가라앉다, to sink, to subside, to become subdued.
"above these nights, which will be drawn"
그려질, from 그려지다, to be drawn, like a sketch or painting.
"screaming into the silence, which will collapse"
the more accurate conjugation would be "screamed," but i went with "screaming" for a smoother flow.
쓰러질, "will collapse;" to fall by collapsing, fainting, passing out.
"within your pupils that gaze at me"
translating it as "eyes" would probably read smoother, but the korean lyrics use the specific word 눈동자, meaning the pupil of the eye.
"drink me, please"
the official translation says "consume me," but 마시다 (original lyric 마셔줘) means "drink." it's simple and fluid, not as forceful as "consume" or "swallow." once again, Ivan never uses harsh or violent language to describe Till's actions.
"this song without an end"
i intentionally chose this syntax to emphasise the lack of an end, and to more closely mirror that of the original. it can also be translated as "this endless song."
"towards each other, we dance"
향해, towards, indicating direction. the official translation, "face to face," can be inferred from the word, but i like the idea of them dancing towards each other, going towards each other, as if drawn together in each other's orbit. (also, the irony that in reality, it is only Ivan doing so, only Ivan going towards Till; Ivan sings this line, like he wishes it were the case, like he wishes it were mutual, even as he knows it is not.)
"our story, buried within eternity"
in the previous instance of the phrase "buried within eternity," the object is not specified. here, the clause is completed with 채, meaning "the state of." specifically, this line would be "our story, in the state of being buried within eternity."
[ and that's it — thank you for reading! please note that this is mostly a line-by-line translation, as the original lyrics are composed of distinct clauses that connect in meaning, but not in grammar. the official translation wove the clauses together in proper sentences, whereas my translation mirrors the scattered discontinuity of the korean lyrics. ]
I love the sweet, sweet smell of irony - even if their situations are a bit different when you go into more depth. Hurray to Mizi and Till for all the trauma they get to add onto the already preexisting stuff.
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