✧- You can call me Ivy, Dokki, Peachy or Jelly, those 4 are the ones I feel comfortable <3
✧- My birthday is April 15th!🎂
✧- My native language is Spanish, I know very little English, so be patient with me.
✧- Ivy is my oc that I will use as an avatar, she is a character separate from me, with her own story and preferences, I may gradually publish more about her so you can get to know her better.
✧- I created this blog to share art that I like from JTHM, Squee, I Feel Sick and Invader Zim, but I will try to share my drawings from these specific fandoms. I also draw stuff that isn't JTHM related, you can check it out on my main blog!
✧- I'm a pretty introverted person, but I'm friendly, so if you have any questions, feel free to ask! I'm very soft but just a little anxious with new people, but that does not prevent you from interacting with me. (I'm an INFP, so that explains itself)
Other things to clarify:
✧- This is a safe place for LGBTQ+ people!
✧- I support the Oc x Canon! As long as it's nothing that bothers me, I'll share selfships that various JTHM artists have, They deserve love!
✧- I like ZaDr, I've seen that some users don't like it, I don't mean to bother anyone :( I would understand if you block me, but I don't mean to bother anyone.
✧- It will never be my intention to offend or insult anyone! If you have any problems with me, tell me so we can clear things up. I don't want to have any misunderstandings with anyone.
🚫 I first met JTHM when I was 16, so I'm aware that there are minors in the fandom, but if you're here it's at your own risk. Don't talk to me if you're a minor!
Tags:
#ivy stuff (My thoughts, opinions, posts of random things)
#invader ivy / Ivy the human (To find posts specifically from my Oc)
#JTHM / johnny the homicidal maniac
#JTHM selfship / JTHM oc x canon
#invader zim
#my art
#Saved (To find drawings by artists who have disappeared from Tumblr)
A tribute zine for the Johnny the Homicidal Maniac franchise to celebrate 30 years of painting walls with blood and infecting the world with head explody!!
THEME:
Consider this a love letter to NNY and all of his horrible cast mates; take what JTHM means to you in its most pure form and run with it! Think blood, knives, dark humor, and of course, little fuckass creatures that mimic your voice to steal your brain.
RULES:
• All participants must be at least 18 years old (due to content rating, legal thingies, etc.)
• ONLY characters from JTHM/SQUEE!/IFS (the more the merrier!)
• Original drawn and written works only
↳ Artwork: must be 2007x3072px canvas size (1960x3000px after bleed is cut), preferably CMYK to best color match for printing.
(Here is a template!)
↳ Written works: No more than 2-pages in length, approx 1000 words. If you'd like to use "2 entries" to double up on words for one fic (4-pages, 2000 words), that is fine too! :]
• Absolutely NO GENERATIVE AI USE!
• No definitively ship-related content (to keep with the spirit of the comics!)
(EX: Portraying Devi and Johnny’s date from Issue #2 in some fashion is fine, but not them in an AU as a happy couple, etc 💔🔪)
• ⚠️CONTENT WARNING! ⚠️ For this zine, entry content can range from all-ages-friendly to comic-canon levels of violence/themes. That includes things like: explicit gore, murder, torture, suicide, drug use, and mentions of SA and CSA.
(With that in mind, for this project we are NOT accepting any entries that contain depictions of SA or CSA! Thank you 🪳)
Still interested in joining after reading all those horrible, horrible words?
We ask that all entries be sent to our email, in hopes that they aren't compressed to Hell through other means like tumblr messenger or Discord links.
Feel free to message any questions you may have here @jthmzine!
(Or you can harass the mod @devnny 🖤🔪)
QUESTIONS?
Can I submit a drawing/fic that I did before this zine was announced?
YES! If you’ve got a work you’re proud of that fits the sizing scale, I don’t see why not! New works are greatly appreciated, but since we’re late on the 30th anniversary anyway, some artists may already have artwork they’d like to showcase instead :]
What kind of artwork is allowed?
ALL KINDS! Please, don’t think of this as a very big, professional project, it is a labor of love (or madness). From fully rendered pieces, to black and white line work, to silly comics, to a page full of sketchy doodles, we want it all!
How many entries per person?
We are not expecting a ton of entrants, so we think a max of 2 entries would be fine! There is a lot of potential content, and if you’re feeling particularly inspired, maybe you want to do a 2nd entry for a different comic/character (EX: JTHM vs IFS), or you could do a 2-page comic, or double up on words for a written work! We are very flexible.
Is this for profit?
NO, not at all! The zine will be available for purchase, but priced as necessary to pay for production costs (which is estimated to be somewhere between $5-10 +shipping)
Will there be extra goodies in the physical copy?
That is up in the air, but we would definitely love to include some neat things like stickers or prints! If any artists want to volunteer extra time/work, it would be possible :)
What is the timeframe?
We will be accepting entries all summer, from June 1 to August 31, 2026. Digital release should easily be expected in September of 2026, and if we have the funds, printing could start in September as well, but potentially not until November 2026. We will keep you posted!
OK GENUINELY, would anyone be interested in participating if i hosted a zine (digital for sure, but printed is the plan!!)
JTHM ZINE?
YES i want to participate! 🔪
YES i want to see it!! 🖤
NO i cannot because [xyz] 💀
Voting ended onMay 23
[a ZINE is a small, self-published book (magazine), this would be a fanbook with multiple contributing artists]
off the rip im thinking; art and fic, no ships just the love of jthm/squee/ifs, main cast preferred but all characters welcome, mutiple entries ok (we are a small tag yknow!)
this summer, maybe fall for printed?thoughts, feelings, concerns? 🤔
I have a life off-screen beyond Tumblr; I’ve had almost no time for myself, my friends, my projects, or to do any analysis or anything—just work, homework, thesis, work, homework, thesis, work, homework, thesis, in an endless cycle.
I’m tired—really, really tired—and in a really sad mood, and the only thing I read that might have made me feel calmer a few days ago turned out to be a lie. So I’m just going to try to shut off my brain for a while, hang out with people who really know me, eat sweets, and take care of my virtual Johnny in Tomodachi Life on the 3DS. I love doing analyses and talking to people about them, but honestly, I’m just not in the mood to do it anymore in a while. I’m sorry.
[ Some screenshots of the game that I was able to take while I was without electricity ]
Ok so I made a comment on a post w/ one of the anon asks a day or two ago and got an ask myself. I wrote a response but deleted it since I didn’t feel like debating and then thought about it almost constantly afterwards so here we are. This is my best attempt at a thoughtful and level-headed take.
I want to first and foremost sincerely apologize to Anon, which is my motivation for posting this on the first place. I was annoyed and felt offended by what I saw as undue criticism of my favorite piece of media, but that’s no excuse. What I said was in poor taste, I shouldn’t have accused you (even if I wasn’t exactly serious) of not having read the comic or had a mocking tone. I genuinely feel so terrible and I hope you can forgive me. And I’m sorry that you’ve gotten so many negative and angry responses as well. I still don’t agree with everything you said, but I do think you made really good points about the way society treats mentally ill people, and your viewpoints do mostly align with mine. I absolutely believe that mentally ill people should be given far more patience and kindness than they are as of now, disorders like schizophrenia, ASPD, and NPD should not be stigmatized at all, and I am very much against institutionalization and everything that entails. I think that discussions of the comic’s flaws in the way Johnny is treated by it are valid, and as a work of fiction it should be allowed to be criticized. I think the issue with the discussions as of late was that people were offended and angry about the asks, which did make a fair amount of accusations, and responded in kind. It sucks that the situation with this became so tense (for lack of a better term), because I think it’s always good to have thoughtful conversations about the themes and messages in media we enjoy. I do not feel like sharing my opinion right now but there are other people who have very similar opinions to me who worded it Far better than I could.
Since the situation has been developing for some time, and I've managed to read about the anonymous Ask some posts that have been circulating, I wanted to offer my opinion now that I'm free of other responsibilities and can write a longer paragraph about it.
While there were valid points, many of which had the nuances to make for an interesting conversation about JTHM (as I've also wanted to have debates with people about their perspectives on certain aspects of history that help people reflect and learn from certain topics), I feel that this whole situation took an unfavorable turn, both for the Anon and for the users they were messaging.
I can understand and empathize with much of what they said once they started talking to another user more directly and calmly, and I'm truly glad that someone was able to take the time to respond and reflect on what the Anon was saying in order to give them calm and insightful answers, because I agreed with many of the responses.
But simply put, the way this all started was chaotic and quite strange in the first place. Labeling people as ableist and forming opinions about them based solely on an opinion or likes they give to other things in their free time is something that would obviously throw anyone off, especially if you don't know what those people you're writing to and accusing them of are going through. I myself went through a REALLY tough personal situation months ago, and it's something I'm obviously not going to share here, but what I'm trying to say is that people have personal problems you're unaware of, and simply accusing them of horrible things just because they like a comic you don't (or you like it to some extent, but not the way it was written) is clearly something people aren't going to take well.
It would have been great if they had created a separate, anonymous profile and let people who wanted to refute their points do so, instead of writing huge messages to everyone where they somehow offended them, and then getting angry because they weren't taken seriously.
We are a community where we can debate, share opinions, theorize, and talk in a healthy way, without resorting to things like this, many people who identify with JTHM and Johnny do so because, to a greater or lesser extent, they project themselves onto the character. Of course, I don't deny that there are ableist people who care little or nothing about mental health, and others who only like the story because it has something "aesthetic" and superficial that appeals to them more than the story itself, or other users who outright despise people with mental health issues.
But even so, not everyone can or has the ability to argue in the way they would like to answer their questions; not everyone has the time to do so; not everyone has the patience to ignore when someone says something that makes them feel bad or directly offends them, especially when there are currently many truly malicious people on the internet and within the fandom itself, who harass, humiliate, and speak ill of other users, or directly mock other profiles privately or publicly simply because they consider them "Weirdos." And this is something I've condemned and spoken about before. It's not the first or last time I've seen people take little or no seriousness towards someone with a mental health issue, and everyone starts making vague posts about it, freaking out or outright belittling them. I myself have told these users in the past that we can't just talk about someone without knowing anything about them and be so unempathetic when they're clearly people going through things we don't know about. I think it's unfair to criticize them just because we see something about them and get a wrong idea, and then label them "crazy fandom people"
But it's also about being aware that just because you have the time, patience, and knowledge to address these issues, it's not valid to accuse everyone else of "not treating someone with dignity." In the first place, this Anon, while making valid points, started pointing the finger at people who weren't hurting anyone, accusing them of being part of the problem and lumping everyone together. If you demand respect, you also have to respect others. The time to talk to someone if you want to have a healthy conversation.
Many of the things discussed were new to me, and I'm glad they were able to do so, and that those who wanted to read it could learn something and gain a different perspective on both JV and JTHM through other external sources besides the comic, such as interviews and some interesting facts they might not have noticed before (as was my case). But I simply would have preferred it to have been done in a more comprehensive way. This way of doing things, initially, was accusing people of things just because they didn't agree with this Anon...
I hope we can discuss various aspects of these works more as a fandom, but also that we do so respectfully and treat each other with dignity too in the future.
- - - - -
Ya que la situación ha llevado su tiempo y he alcanzado a leer sobre los Ask del anónimo que ha estado hablando por allí, quería dar una opinión al respecto ahora que me he liberado de otras responsabilidades y puedo escribir un párrafo largo al respecto
Si bien había puntos válidos y de las cuales habían muchas matices para dar una conversación interesante de JTHM, ya que yo he deseado igualmente tener debates con la gente sobre sus perspectivas sobre ciertas cosas de la historia que ayudan de alguna u otra forma a que la gente reflexione y pueda nutrirse de ciertos temas, siento que toda esta situación se torció de una forma no favorable, tanto para el Anon, como para los usuarios a los que le ha estado mandando mensajes
Puedo entender y empatizar con gran parte de las cosas que dijo una vez empezó a hablar con otro usuario de forma más puntual y tranquila, y de verdad me alegra que alguien pudiera tomarse el tiempo para responderle y reflexionar las cosas que el Anon decía para darle respuestas tranquilas y acertadas, porque muchas de las cosas que está persona le respondió yo estuve de acuerdo
Pero simplemente la forma en la que empezó todo esto fue caótica y bastante extraña en primer lugar. Señalar a la gente de capacitista y empezar a hacerse ideas de como es la gente solo por una opinión o likes que le da a otras cosas en su tiempo libre es algo que obviamente descolocaria a cualquiera, y más si no sabes por lo que está pasando esas personas a las que les escribes y acusas de cosas sin conocerlas. Yo misma pase por una situación personal JODIDA hace meses y es algo que no voy a compartir acá obviamente, pero a lo que quiero llegar es que las personas tienen problemas personales a los cuales no eres consciente, y simplemente llegar a acusarlas de cosas horribles solo porque le guste un comic que a ti no (o en cierta medida te guste, pero no la forma en la que se escribió) es algo que claramente la gente no se va a tomar a bien.
Hubiera estado genial que hubiera hecho un perfil aparte de forma anónima, y dejar que la gente que quisiera refutar sus puntos lo hiciera, y no escribirle a todos textos enormes dónde de alguna u otra forma los ofendía, y a enojarse porque no se lo tomen enserio.
Somos una comunidad donde podemos debatir, opinar, teorizar y hablar de forma sana, sin necesidad de hacer cosas como estás, mucha gente que se identifica con JTHM y Johnny es porque en mayor o menor medida se proyectan en el personaje. Claro que con esto no niego que si existan personas que sean capacitistas, que les importe poco o nada la salud mental y otros solo les guste la historia solamente porque tiene algo "estético" y superficial que les agrade más que la historia en si, u tros usuarios que directamente desprecien a las personas con problemas de salud mental.
Pero aún así, no todos pueden o tienen la capacidad de argumentar de la forma que desearían para responder a sus preguntas, no todos tienen el tiempo para hacerlo, no todos tienen la paciencia para ignorar cuando dicen algo que los haga sentir mal o directamente con lo que se sientan ofendidos, especialmente cuando actualmente hay mucha gente verdaderamente malintencionada en internet y en el propio fandom, que acosan, humillan y hablan pestes de otros usuarios o directamente se burlan en privado o públicamente de otros perfiles solo porque los consideran "bichos raros". Y esto es algo que yo he condenado y de lo cual he hablado antes. No es la primera ni última vez que he visto que le toman poca o nada de seriedad a algún perfil que tenga algún problema de salud mental y todos se pongan a hacer posts vagos al respecto, sacándose de onda o directamente menospreciandolos. Yo misma le he dicho a estos usuarios en el pasado que no podemos simplemente hablar sin saber de alguien y ser poco empáticos cuando claramente son personas que pasan cosas que no sabemos y me parece injusto criticarlos solo porque vemos algo de momento de ellos y se hacen una idea errónea al respecto y a tacharlos de "loquitos del fandom"
Pero también es ser consciente de que no porque tengas el tiempo, paciencia y conocimiento para abordar estos temas, sea válido tachar a todos los que no de "no tratar dignamente a alguien" cuando en primer lugar, dicho Anon empezó a hablar si bien con puntos válidos, empezó a señalar a personas que no le hacían daño a nadie de ser parte del problema y a meter a todos en un mismo saco. Si se pide respeto, también hay que tener respeto a la hora de hablar con alguien si quieres tener una conversación sana.
Muchas cosas que se debatieron yo las desconocía, y me alegro de que pudieran hacerlo y los que quisieran leerlo se nutran y tengan una perspectiva diferente tanto de JV como de JTHM por medio dr otros medios externos además del comic, como las entrevistas y algún dato interesante que no hayan notado antes (como fue mi caso) pero simplemente hubiera preferido que se hubiera hecho de esa forma en un inicio, que haber estado acusando a la gente de cosas solo porque no pensaban lo mismo de este Anon.
Espero que podamos debatir más como fandom de varias cosas de estás obras, pero también que lo hagamos con respeto y tratando con dignidad a los demás.
"You said this, so I know you're aware of the grey I'm talking about. I'm just repeating myself in the interest of clarity more than anything. I think a lot of antisocial people are that way because they truly believe they aren't doing anything wrong, or they're deprived of methods to learn how to re-direct their impulses into different avenues, but I don't think Johnny is one of those people. He is choosing the easy way, and that's just a thing people do sometimes. You can't blame his murdering on his mania-hypomania, because even in depressive states he's just as homicidal. I think his capacities for self-reflection vary a lot depending on his pseudo-schizophrenia, but even when lucid and aware of the flaws in his philosophizing it doesn't make a difference for a lot of the comics. It is just difficult to change, and let go of reliable coping mechanisms, when you feel there's no way out of them, and they feel good despite all of the consequences. If you interpret Psychodoughboy's words as twisted echoes of what was once his internal monologue then he also sees attempting a turnaround as pointless with how far he's gone of the deep end. It's like a sad case of sunk-cost fallacy with him."
i know, johnny does have moments where he has more self-awareness and self-control and yet still chooses to be self-destructive or aggressive instead - i think a good example of this is when he chooses to commit the Cafe Massacre. he admits that anyone in the Cafe could be good or bad and that he can't tell the difference but still decides not to pay attention to that fact and just kills everyone anyway just to take out his feelings over that smoker who insulted him - and in those moments i empathize with his feelings but i do fault him for how he handled them because i think he was in a better state of mind at that time to do better. i don't think of him as total scum or anything but i do feel disappointed and i think he needed someone there to carefully tell him off and encourage him to take a different path. but what i'm interested in and what i'm trying to defend him for are the moments where he is more blinded by his illnesses - for example, when he almost commits murder-suicide at the gas station because the slushie machine was off. that obviously triggered him and he went into crisis at that moment.
"If you don't think people are always a slave to their disorders, and should strive towards healthy coping mechanisms, then what's the inherent problem with a story about someone with antisocial-schizo traits learning to have slightly healthier coping mechanisms? I know it's because of how you think JV's opinions are informing the presentation of Johnny as a character, but it seems like you're against this, or people holding Johnny accountable to any degree whatsoever, as a concept which is seemingly in contradiction with the quote where you said you don't believe mentally ill people are slaves who are incapable of any and all control. I do think someone like Johnny isn't capable of total control of all of his symptoms, regardless of what he does, but the comics specifically don't present that as an option, and reward him for recovering in the ways he can, and generally just being a lot more honest with himself about his issues."
you had quoted the part where i had said how i don't view people as total slave to their emotions but you left out the parts that followed it, which i think explains more:
"i just don't think that's the case for everybody. i don't think everybody can do any of that, but most people just want to treat everybody who could ever hurt another person like they're just some asshole who is actually in perfect control of themselves and always knows what they're doing and are just these completely emotionless husks who just choose to hurt all the good normal people around them just to be assholes. i'm sick of the idea that people who behave anti-socially always carry all the blame and responsibility and aren't worthy of sympathy and should just be punished forever."
""It's inevitable that people with severe symptoms might struggle, or do hurtful things on occasion, even when trying their best"
i agree, so why should we punish them and look down on them and mock them and blame them when they do? why should we not sympathize with these people and just hurt them when they're already down when they do the inevitable?"
i'm not against "a story about someone with antisocial-schizo traits learning to have slightly healthier coping mechanisms". i'm not against stories that depict people like yourself. my problem isn't with johnny as a character himself, my problem is with JV and is intentions. my problem is only with where i feel johnnys character came from.
i still think that JV made johnny as a caricature of people who are self-righteous, hateful, violent and depressive because he looks down on those types of people, and you CAN politely criticize those types of people and how they sometimes act, but i still feel that JV's desire to parody them came from a less understanding or compassionate place. from the way that JV has talked about these types of people i feel that johnny was born from a simple and generalized image he has of them as just being assholes and not much else. JV seems to view self-righteousness as simply an inborn character flaw or a result of some philosophy a person could have that tells them that they somehow have access to all knowledge, are always on the right path, and could never be wrong. he views people who focus on and get consumed by their hate as being weak and thin-skinned and he speaks of them with that air of condescension and contempt. JV brought up the fact that HE was able to avoid becoming hateful by simply gaining thicker-skin, self-confidence and a "functional sense of humor" to contrast with johnny he was "having fun MAKING fun of" because he viewed him as "a person I saw I could easily become".
JV seems to have this eye-rollish attitude towards depressive and suicidal people because….i don't know why honestly but that's how it seems to me. i mean, he already shows johnny killing people in horrible ways multiple times in order to shock the audience and make him seem stupid and laughable, so it would be odd for JV, in the middle of all that, to sometimes suddenly show johnny being genuinely suicidal and depressed in an unusual attempt to suddenly get the audience to sympathize with johnny before he goes back to killing people again for the original purpose of making johnny look pathetic and disgusting, so it seems fitting with the point of the rest of the events for the depressing aspects to have been thrown in there for the same reason as the gory aspects; to get a laugh.
sometimes when johnny starts rambling and complaining about his life and his desire to die the mocking sounding little side notes are written around him:
"gasp! he's regressed back to stupid teen angst mode!"
here he's mocking johnny over his lost hope of ever finding peace in death like he had wanted for so long (side complaint: he's also insulting the emotional pain experienced by teenagers by using that commonly used term "teen angst" which is often used to invalidate teenagers when they express emotional vulnerability. ageism rocks, i guess!).
he also wrote a rant on the first page of the 3rd issue of the comic where he complains about people who "feed into their own negative phase" and "make a personal style out of an appallingly theatrical depression". i'm sure that there are people out there that actually act like that but it's easy to confuse those types with other people who are just chronically depressed/suicidal and who express it and can't/don't try to hide it 24/7, so i worry if JV might be mistaking the later for the former. regardless, just the phrase "negative phase" and the insistence that "as genuine as an ugly emotion can be, it inevitably, must pass" sounds like i-have-it-easy normie shit. often when i hear somebody talk about how "it gets better" it's coming from a person who has only had very mild depression/suicidality that they have mostly recovered from and thinks they're special for it or people who have never been depressed/suicidal and got their info about depression/suicidality from media or stories about the mild cases. i'm not trying to blackpill people, sometimes it CAN get better and that is important, but often when people say "it gets better" they mean that they think that there is a time limit to your depression that will eventually come and turn everything into sunshine and rainbows. it doesn't treat depression as just an illness that has a wide range of severity. it's a simple and basic image of how depression works with the promise of a good ending baked into it, that's why normies love saying it. so i feel like i've got reason to suspect JV of possibly being like that too.
not to mention JV's denial of johnnys realistic mental health issues and the way he constantly describes him as "arrogant", "pretentious", "stupid" and how JV loves grabing these words whenever he has describe johnny, and how JV has decribed johnny as a guy who is convinced that he has all the answers even though throughout the comic johnny is seen regreting his actions and doubting his opinions and his reality.
it feels like everything intersting and realistic and sympathetic about what johnny IS in canon happened by accident. my problem isn't with johnnys character himself, it's with the way i know jhonen thinks of him and what it says about his opinions on real mentally unwell people. i can tell that he just has regular normie style opinions about them.
"You say you're fighting for real people like Johnny, but what are you fighting for on their behalf?"
i'm fighting for them to be respected, understood and sympathized with. i'm fighting for them to not be mocked or laughed at. i'm fighting for them to not be ostrisized. i'm fighting for them to not be shamed. i want people to not blame them or demand that they take responsibility for things that were out of their control, including violence. i want people to stop insisting that mentally ill people must be held acountable to a standard that can be too high above them sometimes.
i'm not saying that all mentally ill people are hopeless and can never change even a little bit or that they can't take responsibility.
i just want people to be kind to the more severe and unconventional types of mentally ill people out there, and i want people to stop holding them to a highstardard and then bullying them and leaving them to be mocked and shamed and condemned forever when they can't reach it.
Do you know something, Anon? It's your lucky day.
I was walking to pick up my medication, and I started thinking about everything that you said here, and then everything you said in the other asks that you've been sending. I thought, and thought, and I was talking about it to a friend, and then something interesting happend. I began to see where you were coming from and agree on a lot of points.
I'm not going to say a lot about JV's opinions because I just don't feel like I can make a lot of definitive conclusions, and I like giving people the benefit of the doubt, but upon further reflection, I don't actually think his opinions change the imperfections in Johnny's presentation as a character throughout the original comics. It is a bit irresponsible, and I don't like that his solution was retconning neurodivergence out of him.
I've talked about the fact that JTHM was concocted as it went along through a series of ideas which were generated on the spot, with minimal planning and minimal foresight. However, even if he wasn't inspired by a single disorder, there's no getting around the fact that Johnny was intended to be disordered in the mind. I've got examples of manic-depressive language and imagery being used in the comics, and I don't need to explain his pseudo-schizophrenic symptoms. It wasn't a product of the wall monster, and the comics go out of their way to establish that. He made a protagonist with mental illness in a comic that's basically a character study, and therefore there should've been more of an effort made to distinguish the criticisms of Johnny as a person from potential criticism of his mental health problems.
I still find a lot of the bits in JTHM hilarious, even if they're at his expense, but I can aknowledge that the ambiguity of JTHM's writing is as much of a flaw as it is a strength to the comics. I think he could've had his cake and eaten it through expanding upon Johnny's symptoms enough to make it a bit more apparent that Johnny being suicidal [or being suicidal as a preformance in the eyes of the Doughboys, which is something to be unpacked in itself], isn't the exactly like Johnny being self-righteous as a person. I could write paragraphs on how JV's writing, and interview responses, can be interpreted in a less condescending fashion, but the truth is that when tackling these sensitive subjects, and taking potshots at groups you might-might not be apart of, then people shouldn't be able to have debates on whether you're laughing with them, or laughing at them, because the answer should've been established.
If Jhonen prioritized dispelling other misinterpretations of the comics, like in the vignette with Jimmy that's directed at fans who'd been idolizing Johnny, or random one-off bits like Wobbly Headed Bob, then even just one scene exploring Johnny's bad relationship with sleep, or his depression, with a more grounded perspective would've gone a long way in clarifying his intentions. I don't even think this is a problem which is exclusive to how Johnny's mental health problems are handled. There's a lot which goes unexplored, or unexpanded upon, because even JV can admit that JTHM's writing can be scattershot and have moments of clumsiness. I do not think people should be hesitant to aknowledge something in JTHM that Jhonen is comfortable criticizing.
I think there's compelling evidence for his opinions on Johnny having a bit of nuance, and even JTHM being in-part a ventpost like you'd originally thought. I think this vignette which I've included above, and the little note in this accompanying image, is probably the clearest example of this in the comics themselves. He also pulled from his experiences with bullying, and the things he used to get called, for Johnny's character. However, I don't think this is a get-out-of-jail-free card considering JTHM is a work that stands on its own, apart from whatever interviews might've clarified about his intentions. I like giving JV a lot of leeway because he was nineteen when he wrote this, but he's fifty now, so he's had decades to talk about this part of the comics. I don't think he had to slit his wrists in front of a crowd of bloodthirsty fans, and apologize to the oh-so wounded schizophrenic communities that he's offended with his comic. I just think he should've talked about this part of the character, and elaborated on his feelings on it, actually.
I think he decided after a point that incorporating mental health into a character like Johnny was a mistake, and so he essentially retconned that and starting adopting the position that whatever he's got going on is all Lovecraft, despite his own work contradicting him. I suppose it's a solution to the problem, if he truly doesn't want to write a character with stigmatized mental illness in a horror absurdist context, or doesn't feel equipped to do so, then I guess we're not entitled to demand that of him. However, I think you can imagine what I feel about that as someone with a psychotic disorder, and a mood disorder, even if I can concede to this being a reasonable solution to this writing decision aging in ways that aren't favorable. It also still doesn't address this part of the original comics, and the flaws associated with it, so much as it pretends like it never happened. I can't say that I'm a fan of this.
I think there's one other place where the ambiguities of JTHM's writing is not to its benefit. Is this supposed to be a joke about how out-of-touch that Johnny is, or is this another example of Jhonen voicing his thoughts through a character that's inspired, as admitted by him, in-part by the thoughts of his teenaged self? I guess we'll never know!
I've talked about this one half-jokingly on an old blog, but the truth is that JTHM is a flawed piece of work, and we shouldn't be shutting down discussions sorrounding fiction, even if it's comforting fiction that we hold dear to our hearts and childhood. JTHM can be comforting to the disordered while also doing them a disservice in different respects. I'm glad you managed to get me to think about this and eventually understand what you were getting at. Do you know what ended up being the final nail? I realized that people were treating you just like all the faceless people, and Jhonen himself, treats Johnny throughout the comics. You have been reasonable when speaking to me through-and-through, always clarifying your opinions and trying to be respectful. I've only seen you become aggravated in response to people being passive-agressive, or blatantly attempting to get a rise out of you, and I just think that's unacceptable. I might see a lot of complicated facets in the messaging of JTHM, and perhaps those were intended, but if nobody else is seeing them, and that's generating a space where people are disrespectful, then that's something worth examining.
It is not harassment to be sent a lot of longwinded anons that can be ignored, or deleted. It is an attempt at starting a conversation, and if someone doesn't feel like doing that with an account, then I don't think that's a criminal offense, and there's a lot worse happening in the world. I once had a fandom blog, and I had my askbox open specifically in the desperate hope that people would engage with me on their takes, because I love this comic, and I love talking about it with people.
I know that I didn't respond in the same, point-by-point fashion as my previous replies, but this is both addressed to you, and everybody that I feel is missing your point because you're communicating as if you're a person with mental health issues that's emotionally invested in the subject instead of an unfeeling, not-at-all inconvienient robot.
"Johnny is a character who was manipulated into killing people and using their blood to feed the wall" "And yes, Johnny attacks people precisely because he initially believes it's what he enjoys doing. However, in volume 4, Johnny first questions the reasons for his actions, the reason for the murders, and this is his turning point. He's so deeply entrenched that he realizes everything he did was the product of someone else's manipulation"
"However, it's implied that Johnny, thanks to the power and freedom the bakers offer him, does increasingly questionable things over time, to the point that by the time we read the story, Johnny has already done unimaginable things, not even to collect the blood for the wall, but simply to prove that he isn't weak, that he doesn't deserve to be humiliated for who he is, and that he won't receive any punishment for his actions."
"Johnny is no gentle dove. He tested the most unimaginable limits just to see how much he could and couldn't do, even if it meant killing a flower vendor, drawing his blood in public, and running away, and no one would do anything to stop him. He was able to stop him thanks to the "protection" he had, but he did it anyway; he DECIDED to do it, just as he decided to kill Edgar even though he wasn't a bad person, simply taking someone at random to finish the job faster and go home. And Johnny also DECIDES at the end of the story, when he revives and is almost bald, to try to stop listening to the voices, even though Reverend Meat is still there insistently. He doesn't want to listen to him because he knows he'll only try to manipulate him into believing he enjoys killing people, and then he'll be used again; it will be a cycle again."
it seems to me like you're going back and forth between the idea that johnnys violent actions were being completely controlled or at least heavily influenced by the monster in his wall BUT that he also had enough self control and freedom to choose to kill people to begin with, or you're trying to hold these two opinions at the same time and say that it was a mix of both.
it doesn't make a difference to me anyway. if johnnys actions were being controlled or influenced by the monster in his wall then that actually absolves him of WAY more responsibility and guilt. if a persons actions are being puppeted by something more powerful then him, most likely though the use of some sort of supernatural magic or something and not even through the regular type of manipulation tactics that humans use on each other, then that means that their actions are not entirely their own and are out of the persons control, and if that's so then how can you call them bad people and hold them responsible? i don't think you can.
if any of johnnys actions are "his own" and are not being controlled by the wall monster, why must it still be the case that johnny would be solely responsible and to blame for whatever actions that he can make in his life without the wall monsters interference? it seems like even when you think that the wall monster isn't deeply involved in johnnys life you still want to put the blame on him for the actions that he takes during those moments of freedom, as if a person not being manipulated by some cosmic entity would only be able to make decisions out of pure willpower and self-control and clarity. well they can't.
you can't hold real people who self-harm or try to kill themselves totally responsible for their actions, for example. often these people don't really WANT to kill themselves, but they're being pushed into taking self-destructive actions by their extremely distressing emotions, which are overriding their better judgement and willpower.
to be responsible and at fault for your actions you need:
to have a full intellectual understanding of the correct morality and the circumstances around you
to have proper self control over your action and not become swayed by your emotions and instincts
to have self-awareness
not everyone has these things and some people never will obtain any of these things. not all depressive suicidal people have it, not all anti-social people have it, and if you lack any of these things then how can you be held responsible? how can you be blamed? how can you be a bad person?
even when johnny comes back from heaven and hell and he's no longer being controlled by the wall monster anymore, he still continues to hurt and kill people even though he doesn't fucking want to, clearly showing that even when he's not being manipulated by outside forces he still has genuine homicidal urges that he can't control even though he wants to, just like in the cases of a lot of suicidal people to.
are you going to put all the blame and responsibility onto suicidal people for the decisions that they make about their own life? are you going to be so cruel and inconsiderate? why should you do the same for homicidal people who, my i remained you, are not just fictional characters. homicidal people are real and they have real struggles that are very similar to the struggles of suicidal people, so you might want to try extending the same sympathies and understanding that you hopefully gives to the suicidal to the homicidal as well.
"First of all, I'm fully aware that the universe of Jhonen Vasquez (JTHM, Squee!, IFS, Iz) consists of stories that can't be judged by the same moral standards we use in reality. Why? Because the logic and morality of Jhonen Vasquez's universe are so distorted that there's constant abuse, murder, monsters around every corner, etc. People don't think the same way as in our reality, and they take every tragedy or misfortune that occurs with little or no seriousness. But that doesn't mean that there are things Johnny objectively did within the story that can't be considered especially "good" or justifiable, even within its context and story."
what reason do you have to believe that the morality of the world in JTHM is so different from ours? i never got the impression that what was right and wrong in our world was different in the world of this comic.
no offence but i literally don't care about how morality works within the fictional world of this comic. i'm not judging johnny by the morality of the world that he lives in and i know that jhonen and a lot of his fans aren't either. when i refuse to call johnny a bad person it's because i'm judging him by the morality of the world that you and i exist in as i see it. i get pissed off over how jhonen and the rest of his cock sucker fans judge johnny, and by extension real people who act like him, because i know that they are judging him by their own personal ideas of how morality works in the real world. i kind of doubt that the morality of the world that JTHM exists in is very different from ours, it's probably just that the characters don't fucking care and act however they want anyway. jhonen has said multiple times that he made JTHM because he thought it would be funny. every decision he made in the comic he made because he thought it would be funny to himself. this comic is a joke, and what is the joke? the joke is that people keep going around and committing what jhonen believes to be immoral actions and jhonen expected his audience to view it the same way he did. johnny is a joke character that jhonen created because he thinks that people who act like johnny are horrible people and are thus funny to him and deserve to be mocked. he made Johnny with the intention of mocking him for the fact that he kills people and for the fact that he's miserable and nihilistic and is "arrogant" and "pretentious" and depressive. jhonen made johnny like this to be laughed at because jhonen thinks that these things are laughable and unjustifiable in real life and aren't worth sympathizing with according to his own beliefs about what is right or wrong in the real world. the reason why i don't like any of this isn't because i view it as a mischaracterization of johnnys character, i'm not standing up for "johnny the cartoon character", i'm standing up for the real people that actually exist in our world who share similarities with johnny, because when jhonen mocks and condemns and belittles johnny from the perspective of jhonens own moral sensibilities then he ends up mocking and condemning and belittling the actual mentally ill people who act like johnny too.
if the morality within JTHM were different to our own world and jhonen were judging johnny by the morality of the world within the comic then that would be fine. morals can be portrayed differently in fiction. but jhonen isn't mocking and condemning johnny because he wrote JTHM in such a way that johnny could be considered a bad person by the moral standards of HIS OWN universe, jhonen condemns and mocks johnny because he thinks that he is a bad person according to the moral standards in the real world as he sees it.
and i have a problem with all of this because, well, i simply disagree. my morals are different from jhonens and they are different from yours too. i wish they weren't. i wish everyone could understand how i see things. i don't think that if you hurt people, even very brutally, then it's all your fault and now you're some irredeemable monster who's unworthy of love or help and sympathy. i just don't fucking think that. i view homicide and people with homicidal tendencies the way a lot of more progressive people view suicide and people with suicidal tendencies.
Creo que entonces toda esta situación no llegara a ningún lado tras tus declaraciones. Si eres la persona que CREO que eres tras esa máscara de Anon, entonces estoy completamente descorazonada y desilucionada. Literalmente estás acusándome de cosas exorbitantemente horribles y desagradables sobre mi que te sacaste, perdona la expresión, PERO DEL CULO solo porque tengo una opinión distinta a tí de una obra que tras todo lo que me contaste, ni siquiera aprecias por como es, ni que es solo un producto de ficción.
Entiendo que estés en desacuerdo con ciertos fans, conmigo, el mismo Jhonen, ciertos análisis o teorías, etc. Pero si tú tienes una opinión yo la respeto completamente, y tú deberías hacer lo mismo con la mía, incluso si no te gusta JTHM está completamente bien por las razones personales que tengas. Pero yo seguiré amando este comic que me acompañó en tantos momentos difíciles de mi vida y no dejaré de amarlo solo porque a ti no te gusta que mi perspectiva de Johnny sea diferente a la tuya.
Puedes tener cual sea que sea tu interpretación de JTHM y las obras de Jhonen Vasquez o la escritura del mismo si es lo que tú deseas, yo no te estoy negando eso ni atacandote ni marginandote por eso, además que ni siquiera te conozco para decir barbaridades tuyas como tú hiciste conmigo. Pero el problema de toda esta situación es que tú hablas e involucras a personas reales cuando EN NINGÚN MOMENTO YO HE HECHO O DICHO ALGO QUE TE HAGA DECIR TODO ESO DE MÍ, Y QUE IMPLIQUE A PERSONAS REALES DE POR MEDIO. Quiero entender a lo que te refieres, pero en el momento en el que dijiste que congeniabas con asesinos seriales REALES y los comparabas con personas con problemas suicidas, fue mi límite.
No tengo que demostrarte ni a ti ni a nadie ABSOLUTAMENTE NADA. Cualquier otro mensaje que envíes será bloqueado, eliminado y a considerar todo esto simple spam y ragebait. Me niego a seguir respondiendo y dándote razones para que sigas indagando en mi perfil solo con tal de buscar cualquier otra cosa que diga a alguien para que te hagas un fanfic en tu cabeza sobre eso y lo tan mala persona que soy solo por no defender a Johnny C y que no intento blanquear sus acciones solo porque me guste su personaje. Puedo separar al personaje de la realidad y creeme, he visto cosas horribles que le han hecho a personas REALES con afecciones médicas y mi nivel de empatía y consciencia con referencia a este tipo de temas está bastante alta. Así que tus teorías sin fundamento son solo eso, teorías sin fundamento sobre mí.
Nada de lo que yo te diga, o lo que tú me digas, nos hará cambiar de opinión, así que toda esta charla es improductiva y ninguno de los dos va a ceder, así que te pido amablemente que no me vuelvas escribir. Si sabes que lo que yo te diga no te hará cambiar de opinión y ya expusiste tu punto y yo no estoy de acuerdo con el, es así de simple y ya. No hay necesidad de continuar contestando estos mensajes.
you replied to a user underneath this post saying: "Jhonen is doing everything right. I love how people understand the differences between Jimmy and Johnny, and yet both can still be considered "bad people," as Johnny himself clarifies"
what makes johnny or jimmy "bad people"? just because they both hurt people?
we don't know much about jimmy and his circumstances but it was made pretty clear throughout this comic that johnny is deeply unwell, clearly out of his own mind and out of his own control. johnny is at a near constant safety risk to others and himself. johnny WANTS to be normal and not hurt other people but he just CAN'T, if he could we would've chosen to stop and live a normal healthy life already, but he can't so he doesn't. if a person struggles so much to control themselves how can they be reasonably held responsible for their actions, even the very harmful ones, and thus how can they be called a bad person? there are plenty of people out there who struggle in very similar way to johnny, some are violent, some are self-destructive, some are homicidal, some are suicidal, some are all of the above. why must we look down on them and laugh at them and hold them to the same high expectations that we hold normal and in-control and well adjusted people to when they have clearly show themselves to not be able to? how is laughing at anti-social people and just constantly reiterating how "bad" they are and how harmful their actions are going to help anyone? moralizing about these people and playing the blame game with them only helps to make normal and well adjusted people feel superior, the people it's most harmful to are the people like johnny who are already hurting so much.
do you people call non-violent but severely suicidal people "bad people" for not being able to just be happy on a whim and resist hurting themselves? why don't we start treating suicidal people like abusers and murderers? after all, we all know that suicide often hurts the people around the victim, it's bad to hurt people right? hurting normal people, no matter the context, is always the worst thing people can do so why don't we just brush off all the struggles suicidal people face and just laugh at them and blame them and call them bad people for DARING to not be happy, huh? it's so fucking easy to be happy and normal, so why can't they just do it, huh?
why do you all just go along with this comic and never question it's fucking ableism?
ANALYSIS OF WHY JOHNNY AND JIMMY ARE BAD PEOPLE
(Why should I even explain this...?)
I'm going to answer this in Spanish too because I'm not good at writing in English, and I want to clarify a few things and avoid misunderstandings because of my writing. It will be translated with Google, so any spelling or grammatical errors are due to that.
First of all, I'm fully aware that the universe of Jhonen Vasquez (JTHM, Squee!, IFS, Iz) consists of stories that can't be judged by the same moral standards we use in reality. Why? Because the logic and morality of Jhonen Vasquez's universe are so distorted that there's constant abuse, murder, monsters around every corner, etc. People don't think the same way as in our reality, and they take every tragedy or misfortune that occurs with little or no seriousness. But that doesn't mean that there are things Johnny objectively did within the story that can't be considered especially "good" or justifiable, even within its context and story.
Johnny is a character who was manipulated into killing people and using their blood to feed the wall. He didn't have to do anything else; the house itself has the devices that do all the work for him and collect the blood he needs (for example, Edgar's death). And yes, Johnny attacks people precisely because he initially believes it's what he enjoys doing. However, in volume 4, Johnny first questions the reasons for his actions, the reason for the murders, and this is his turning point. He's so deeply entrenched that he realizes everything he did was the product of someone else's manipulation (the bakers and the wall). It becomes clear that Johnny is considered a social outcast because he deviates from the conventional mold of the people in his world, and that simply because of who he is, it's justifiable to attack him. Not everyone in JTHM is like that, but in response to this, Johnny, with the protection afforded him by the bakers (which is made clear in Sickness's conversation with Devi), can do whatever he wants and kill people without any consequences thanks to his position as "Waste Cleaner" (as Satan says). He is someone condemned to witness the decay of others, and that is the source of his purpose as a killer. Johnny was literally condemned to a fate he never wanted, asked for, or liked, solely for the benefit of other creatures, to be used as a mere puppet, and to have his creativity consumed until nothing remained of him.
However, it's implied that Johnny, thanks to the power and freedom the bakers offer him, does increasingly questionable things over time, to the point that by the time we read the story, Johnny has already done unimaginable things, not even to collect the blood for the wall, but simply to prove that he isn't weak, that he doesn't deserve to be humiliated for who he is, and that he won't receive any punishment for his actions.
I compiled a list a long time ago of all the things Johnny did within the story. I might have missed some, but here are the ones I was able to gather:
- Serial murder
- Torture (Sadistic and sexual: An example of the latter is the taxi driver from hell whom Johnny forced to "eat his friends' parts")
- Kidnapping
- Armed robbery
- Assault
- Burglary
- Terrorist acts
- Destruction of private property
- Illegal possession of firearms
- Neglect and animal cruelty
- Psychological abuse (conscious or unconscious) of a minor (Attacking Squee's father or when he murdered the pedophile in front of him)
- Desecration of corpses
And perhaps many more things that happened off-screen...
Johnny is no gentle dove. He tested the most unimaginable limits just to see how much he could and couldn't do, even if it meant killing a flower vendor, drawing his blood in public, and running away, and no one would do anything to stop him. He was able to stop him thanks to the "protection" he had, but he did it anyway; he DECIDED to do it, just as he decided to kill Edgar even though he wasn't a bad person, simply taking someone at random to finish the job faster and go home. And Johnny also DECIDES at the end of the story, when he revives and is almost bald, to try to stop listening to the voices, even though Reverend Meat is still there insistently. He doesn't want to listen to him because he knows he'll only try to manipulate him into believing he enjoys killing people, and then he'll be used again; it will be a cycle again.
But none of that erases the fact that he murdered many people, innocent or guilty, that he attacked Devi, his romantic interest, just because he didn't want a bad moment to damage the image he had of her, that he killed Edgar knowing he was a good person, that he killed a flower vendor who was just doing his job without bothering anyone, etc. Johnny has his own criteria for killing people, but those criteria haven't been used by him.
He feels morally superior to the people he chooses to be the executioner of. And that's what I like about JTHM: it treats Johnny and his situation, however twisted, with great self-awareness and humanity, while also showing how Johnny, even from the lowest point, manages to realize his situation and try to escape. He still has a long way to go to understand himself, and if he seeks redemption, he will, because he never wanted to be a murderer. (I've been writing and analyzing JTHM for a story I'm working on; my boy has more to tell.)
As for Jimmy, all we know is that he suffered bullying for being different, a situation similar to Johnny's. However, unlike Johnny, who was manipulated into doing what he did because he was too vulnerable to distinguishing external voices from his own (information found in the Director's Cut character sheets, in the respective descriptions of D-Boy and Mr. Eff), Jimmy harbored thoughts of revenge against those who wronged him, but lacked the courage to act on them, leaving them only as fantasies in his notebooks. He DECIDED to kill on his own. At no point in the story is it stated or shown that he suffers from any disorder that would cause him to delusionally reach such conclusions; it is only shown that he has a morbid obsession with Johnny and wants to be like him and be his student. All we can assume is that, in terms of our reality, he is a psychopath, someone who lacks empathy for others. Otherwise, why would he attack a girl he didn't know simply because she "reminded him of a girl from his high school who bullied him," and why would he SA her for that reason alone? Regardless of whether the girl was like the one he knew, he simply judged her superficially and ended her life for the sheer satisfaction of doing so. Johnny, on the other hand, was being manipulated into killing so many people, but he also decided how to end their lives, choosing the most twisted, torturous, and disgusting methods possible, even resorting to kidnapping them as punishment when "his position thanks to the bakers" only required him to take their blood and feed the wall. There was no need for Johnny to be sadistic in doing so (as I said, there were machines in the house that did those things for him), so there's no justification for it.
Johnny could be considered a sociopath, unlike Jimmy, and suffers from severe depression and intrusive thoughts that lead to multiple suicide attempts. Johnny does have empathy and shows remorse for everything he did, including attacking Devi. Johnny started killing because of the circumstances and how they led him to that point, while Jimmy didn't. Sooner or later, regardless of whether he knew Johnny or not, Jimmy would have found some other means, place, or person that would have given him the courage to do the things he did. He didn't actually do all that because something "inspired or encouraged him to find the courage," since he had been predisposed to it for many years. This statement is as absurd as saying that "violent video games make people violent." People DECIDE to do the things they do. The fact that there are exceptions who do it because they don't separate reality from fiction doesn't imply that it's the norm or a general rule. (Even Johnny says, "They're just entertainment, not guides for self-destruction.")
However, Johnny isn't a better person than Jimmy just because he didn't abuse anyone, nor is Jimmy less innocent simply because the number of victims was lower. Both Johnny and Jimmy DECIDED what they did, even if, in Johnny's case, it was due to his precarious situation and lack of support. He killed and attempted to kill innocent people, fully aware of it, and that's why he knows he's not a role model. That's also why he tells Jimmy that he's the villain and shouldn't be praised for the horrible things he's done. Jhonen wrote that part fully aware of the letters his fans sent him justifying Johnny and his actions, or expressing a desire to be like him, and that was his most brutal response to the situation.
Johnny and Jimmy proclaimed themselves morally superior to others, when in reality they weren't so different from the people they criticized.
I have never been ableist, I have never minimized any neurodivergent person or anyone in a precarious situation, because I know that REAL people have feelings, experience things no one else knows about, and deal with their own problems.
I love Johnny as a fictional character and I can openly admit that he is a questionable character. Yes, but I will NEVER idolize someone like Johnny in real life. I love his writing, his story, and his personality, as well as all of Jhonen Vasquez's other characters, but I will NEVER justify a real murderer, and I would never do all the things you said. You're making assumptions about me without knowing me at all. Just because I said that Johnny and Jimmy are bad people in a post where I drew him because of the lack of content the character receives due to all the hate he gets? Where are you basing all the things you said on just that one simple comment? Was it really necessary for me to write all this when the ENTIRE story explicitly emphasizes and shows all these points?
Sighhhh...
With nothing more to say on the matter, I'll leave this drawing of Johnny and Ivy being completely out of character because nothing I draw affects the original work, and because it makes me happy to draw whatever I want.
ESPAÑOL
ANALISIS DEL PORQUE JIMMY Y JOHNNY SON MALAS PERSONAS
(¿Por qué debería estar explicando esto...?)
En primer lugar, soy plenamente consciente de que el universo de Jhonen Vasquez (JTHM, Squee!, IFS, Iz) son historias las cuales no se pueden juzgar con la misma moral que manejamos en la realidad ¿Por qué? Porque la lógica y moral del universo de Jhonen Vasquez está tan deformada que hay maltrato constante, asesinatos, monstruos en cada esquina, etc. Las personas no tienen la misma forma de pensar que nuestra realidad y cada tragedia o desgracia que ocurre la toman con poca o nada de seriedad. Pero eso no significa que hay cosas que objetivamente Johnny hizo dentro de la historia las cuales no pueden considerarse especialmente "buenas" o justificables, incluso dentro de su contexto e historia.
Johnny es un personaje que fue manipulado para matar a las personas y usar su sangre para alimentar a la pared. El no tenía que hacer nada más que éso, incluso la misma casa tiene los artefactos que hacen todo el trabajo por el y recolectan la sangre que necesita (Ejemplo; La muerte de Edgar) y si, Johnny ataca a las personas precisamente porque el cree que es lo que disfruta hacer EN UN INICIO. SIN EMBARGO, En el tomo 4 es la primera vez donde Johnny se cuestiona el porqué de sus acciones, el porqué de los asesinatos y es su punto de inflexión, dónde el ya está tan hundido que se da cuenta que todo lo que el hacía era producto de las manipulaciones de alguien más (los panaderos y la pared) Y se deja en claro que Johnny al ser considerado un marginado social porque se sale del molde convencional de las personas de su mundo, y que solo por ser como es justificable agredirlo. No todas las personas en JTHM son así, pero en respuesta a esto Johnny con la protección que le otorganlos panaderos (que queda claro con la conversación de Sickness con Devi), puede hacer lo que quiera y matar personas sin ninguna consecuencia de por medio gracias a su posición de "Limpiador de residuos" (Como dice Satán) es alguien condenado a ver la pudredumbre de las personas y de alli su propósito como asesino. Literalmente Johnny fue condenado a un destino que nunca quiso ni pidió, ni que le gusta, solo por el beneficio de otras criaturas y usarlo como un simple títere y consumir su creatividad hasta que no quedara nada de él.
Sin embargo, se deja entrever que Johnny gracias a esta posición de poder y libertad que le ofrecen los panaderos, hace cosas más y más cuestionables con el pasar del tiempo, a un punto que cuando leemos la obra, Johnny ya ha hecho cosas inimaginables, incluso sin la finalidad de recolectar esa sangre para la pared, sino como una mera forma de demostrar que el no es débil, que el no merece ser humillado por como es y que el no recibirá ningún castigo por sus acciones.
Enlisté hace mucho tiempo todas las cosas que hizo Johnny dentro de la historia, quizás se me pasó alguna, pero aquí están las que pude recopilar:
- Asesinato en serie
- tortura (Sádica y Sexual: Ejemplo de este último, el taxista del infierno al que Johnny obligó a que "comiera las partes de sus amigos")
- secuestro
- asalto a mano armada
- Agresión
- Allanamiento de morada
- actos terroristas
- Destrucción de propiedad privada
- portación de armas ilegalmente
- negligencia y crueldad animal
- Maltrato psicológico (consciente o inconscientemente) hacia un menor (Atacar al padre de Squee o cuando asesinó al pedófilo frente a el)
- Profanación de cadáveres
Y quizás muchos cosas más que pasaron fuera de cámara...
Johnny no es una mansa paloma, el tanteo los límites más inimaginables solo para probar que tanto podía o no hacer, incluso si mataba a un vendedores de flores, extraer su sangre en público y huir, y que nadie haría nada para detenerlo gracias a la "protección que tenía, el sin embargo lo hizo, el DECIDIÓ hacerlo, así como decidió matar a Edgar aún sin ser una mala persona y simplemente tomar a alguien al azar para terminar mas rápido el trabajo e ir a casa. Y Johnny tambien DECIDE al final de la historia, cuando revive y queda casi calvo, intentar dejar de escuchar las voces, aunque aún siga el Reverendo Carne por allí de forma insistente, el no quiere escucharlo, porque sabe que solo intentará manipularlo para que crea que disfruta matar personas y de nuevo será usado, de nuevo será un ciclo.
Pero nada de eso borra el hecho de que haya asesinado a muchas personas, inocentes o culpables, el atacar a Devi, su interés romántico, solo porque no quería que un mal momento dañara la imagen que tenía de ella, mató a Edgar sabiendo que era una buena persona, mató a un vendedor de flores que solo estaba haciendo su trabajo sin molestar a nadie, etc. Johnny tiene sus propios criterios al matar personas, pero esos criterios no lo hacen moralmente superior a las personas a las cuales el decide ser su verdugo. Y eso es lo que me gusta de JTHM, que trata a Johnny y a su situación, por más retorcida que esté, con mucha autoconciencia, con mucha humanidad y a su vez mostrar el como Johnny aún desde lo más bajo piso darse cuenta para intentar salir, y aun le falta mucho por recorrer para entenderse a si mismo y si en todo caso, buscar su redención, lo hará, porque el nunca quiso ser un asesino (He estado escribiendo y analizando JTHM para una historia que estoy haciendo, mi muchacho tiene mas para contar)
Jimmy por su lado lo único que sabemos es que sufrió de bullying por ser diferente, una situación similar a Johnny. Sin embargo, a diferencia de Johnny, quien fue manipulado para hacer las cosas que hizo debido a que estaba muy vulnerable para diferenciar voces externas a las suyas propias (Información que sale en las fichas de personaje del Director's Cut, en las respectivas descripciones de D-Boy y Mr. Eff) Jimmy tenía pensamientos de cobrar venganza contra las personas que le hacían daño, pero sin tener el valor para hacerlo, y solo dejándolo en meras fantasías en sus libretas escritas, el DECIDIÓ matar por su propia cuenta. En ningún momento de la historia se dice o muestra que el sufra de algún trastorno que lo haga delirar para que llegue a tales conclusiones, solamente que tiene una hiperfijación enfermiza con Johnny y que quiere ser como el y ser su estudiante. Todo lo que podemos asumir es que en términos de nuestra realidad, el es un psicópata, alguien que carece de empatía hacia los demás, porque si no ¿Porque el atacaría a una chica que no conocía, solo porque "le recordaba a una chica de su secundaria que lo molestaba" y la ABUSARIA solo por eso? Independientemente de si la chica era o no como la que el conocía, el simplemente la juzgo superficialmente y acabo con su vida por la mera satisfacción de hacerlo. Cuando Johnny en contraparte si, estaba siendo manipulado para matar a tantas personas, pero el DECIDÍA TAMBIEN la forma en la cuales acabar con ellas, y decidió que fuera de las formas más retorcidas, tortuosas y desagradables posibles, e incluso solo secuestrarlas para castigarlas cuando "su posición gracias a los panaderos" solo le exigía tomar esa sangre y alimentar la pared. No había necesidad de que Johnny fuera sádico a la hora de hacerlo (como dije, existían máquinas que hacían esas cosas por él en la casa) así que no hay justificación para eso.
Johnny podría considerarse un sociopata a diferencia de Jimmy y que tiene una depresión severa, pensamientos intrusivos que lo conducen a múltiples intentos de suicidio. Johnny si tiene empatía y muestra arrepentimiento de haber hecho todas las cosas que hizo, así como el haber atacado a Devi. Nny empezó a matar debido a las circunstancias y el como esto lo hizo llegar a ese punto, mientras que Jimmy no. Jimmy tarde o temprano, independientemente de si conocía o no a Johnny, el hubiera visto a algún otro medio, lugar o persona, que lo haría tomar el valor de hacer las cosas que hizo, o inclusive, el realmente no hizo todo eso porque algo "lo inspirara o animará a tomar el valor" ya que el estaba predispuesto a hacerlo desde hacía muchos años atrás. Porque está frase es tan absurda como el decir que "los vídeojuegos violentos hacen violentas a las personas" Las personas DECIDEN hacer las cosas que hacen, que hayan excepciones que si lo hagan, debido a que no separan la realidad de la ficción, no implica que sea la norma o algo general. (incluso Johnny lo dice "Son solo entretenimiento, no son guías para automaldecirte")
Sin embargo, ni Johnny es mejor persona que Jimmy porque el no abusara de alguien, ni Jimmy es menos inocente solo porque el número de víctimas fuera menor. Ambos DECIDIERON las cosas que hicieron, aún si en el caso de Johnny fuera por la precaria situación y falta de apoyo en la que se encontraba, el mato e intentó matar a personas inocentes también siendo complemente consciente de ello, y es por eso que el sabe que no es un ejemplo a seguir, y por eso mismo le a Jimmy que el es el villano, y no debería de alabarlo por las cosas horribles que ha hecho. Jhonen escribió esa parte siendo completamente consciente de las cartas que le enviaban sus fans justificando a Johnny y las cosas que hizo, o que aspiraban a querer ser como el, y esa fue su más cruda respuesta a la situación.
Johnny y Jimmy se autoproclamaron como personas moralmente superiores a los demás, cuando realmente no eran tan diferentes a las personas a las cuales ellos mismos criticaban.
En ningún momento he sido capacitista, nunca he minimizando a alguna persona neuro divergente o alguna persona en situación precaria, porque se que las personas REALES tienen sentimientos, viven cosas que nadie más sabe y lidiar con sus propios problemas.
Me encanta Johnny como personaje ficticio y puedo admitir abiertamente que el es un personaje cuestionable, pero JAMÁS voy a idolatrar a una persona como Johnny en la vida real. Amo su escritura, su historia y su forma de ser ,así como todos los demás personajes de Jhonen Vasquez, pero JAMÁS voy a justificar a un asesino real, y jamás haría todas las cosas que dijiste, estás asumiendo cosas de mi sin conocerme en lo absoluto ¿Solo porque dije que Johnny y Jimmy son malas personas en un post donde lo dibujé debido al poco contenido que recibe el personaje por todo el odio que tiene? ¿De dónde fundamentas todas las cosas que dijiste con solo con ese simple comentario? ¿De verdad era tan necesario que escribiera todo este texto cuando TODA la historia recalca y muestra EXPLÍCITAMENTE todos estos puntos?
Sighhhh...
Sin nada más que decir al respecto, dejo este dibujo de Johnny e Ivy siendo completamente Out of Character porque nada de lo que dibujo afecta a la obra original, y porque me hace feliz dibujar lo que quiera.
i also made a reference for devi's apartment in IFS... i don't know why
this is the best layout i could come up with the panels we see (take the in-comic inconsistencies with a grain of salt) we never see devi's bathroom so i can only guess the layout, but i assume it is the other door we see tenna standing in front of (the doorknob is on the opposite side so its not her bedroom door)
i am also running with the assumption here that devi is using her kitchen as the art room?? as far as i can tell there is no other rooms it could be in whwhhw the cabinets would make some sense, but girl where is your refrigerator???
Although your map is more structured than mine, I did this last year when I was in the second semester of my degree, which had an art class where we were made to research apartment models and architects. My model is much more square than yours and the elements are distributed differently (especially the non-visible parts like the kitchen and bathroom) But I'm really glad that someone wanted to make a model of Devi's apartment specifically as a reference for their fanfics and fanart!!
Thank you so much to everyone who has been with me in the fandom this year, for talking to me, liking my drawings, and sharing them. This is a very nice community and have given me a safe space to share my art. And I will do more in the future!
Muchas gracias a todos los que me han acompañado en el fandom este año, por hablar conmigo, darle me gusta a mis dibujos y compartirlos. Son una comunidad muy agradable y me han brindado un espacio seguro para compartir mi arte. ¡Y haré muchos más en el futuro!
