Remember when Jungkook’s boxing teacher told Jimin to hurry up and come back in to the gym?
Remember when Jungkook came to watch Jimin’s dance practice?
Remember when Jungkook muttered about how Jimin moved the lamp in his apartment?
Remember when Jungkook would go live and know every note and lyric, every step of every dance routine, every word of interviews for Jimin’s content?
Remember when those lives would just abruptly stop each time Jimin came back from traveling, then start up again when the traveling continued?
Remember when Jimin said he and Jungkook talk for hours and hours about music while having drinks?
Remember how they made sure to do their travel show despite how crazy their schedules had been, with barely much of any plan other than to relax and be together?
Remember how Jungkook was naked in bed begging Jimin to let him come over and shower and Jimin said he wasn’t that easy?
Remember how they spent months applying to enlist together and are almost halfway done their service now?
Why are people handwringing or gaslighting in the Jikook tags?
Jikook were busy. Jikook chose each other. You don’t need to take that as proof of anything more or less than what it is: they were busy; they chose each other.
Disclaimers: Sensitive topics are discussed below the cut; please do not incite drama, speak hate, or engage in bullying. I am not a mental health professional; I make no claims of expertise (in anything). This is a collection of my thoughts about what is currently happening on the Taekook side of ARMY, in the hopes that it may help us as a community respond more effectively to the toxic parts of our fandom. If you click below this cut, you are assuming responsibility for your own behavior and agreeing to engage with my blog respectfully, or you will be blocked.
THE NARRATIVES AT WORK
I submit that shipping Taekook is both an evolving conspiracy theory and a living cult.
There are various narratives within this subgroup, but in general, to ship Taekook, one must believe Kim Taehyung and Jeon Jungkook are in a closeted gay romantic relationship.
One also likely believes that their company (both BigHit and Hybe) and everyone around them have always actively hid their gay relationship.
Initially, Taekook (the “real” gay couple) was being hidden by Jikook (the “fake” gay couple) because Jikook was somehow more popular in Korea and therefore considered to be more profitable.
And this was the main narrative for years. It got Jimin dragged and hated online and in real life, to the point there was even a credible shooting threat at a concert.
Now, the narrative is being modified in light of the video footage revealed this week involving Taehyung and Jennie.
If Taekookers accept at all that Jennie and Tae were indeed photographed holding hands in Paris this week, then they likely believe both their companies are using this as a PR Relationship stunt to hide their real gay relationships before military service and comeback projects.
This belief includes:
1) assuming Taehyung and Jennie are not being honest;
2) believing Taehyung and Jungkook have no agency or power within their own companies; and,
3) all of their members and managers are also in on this nefarious plot.
Whether they believe Taennie is just cosplayers in an orchestrated smear campaign, or two actual idols in a PR Relationship, regardless, a large segment of this subgroup still believe that Jimin is the company favorite who gets special treatment.
Therefore, things that should be Taekook’s (such as songs and subunits and couple-like interactions) are instead given to the company’s king of fan service, to the point where Jimin “assaults” Jungkook with “unwanted” attention and physical contact.
THE LOGICAL FALLACIES
As amazingly popular as our Korean It Boy is, I have serious doubts about Jimin being the “company favorite” ever since Hybe took over two years ago.
As the “company favorite,” I’d love it if he got more lines in group songs, or was allowed to film as many music videos as he wanted, or could be given more than 10 days of promotion time for a project he spent a year working on. It would be stellar if the “company favorite” had in-ears that worked correctly during live broadcasts, or was invited onto IU’s show, or could host streaming parties or sell exclusive merch. To say nothing of the “company favorite” getting far more reality show appearances and magazine interviews and a Disney documentary with behind the scenes footage! Heck, I’d settle for his songs not being split on Spotify, his views not being culled on YouTube, and maybe just one congratulatory statement to the press or even just a CAKE celebrating his historic Hot 100 #1.
At least Jimin was “allowed” to include a hidden track with Jungkook (that wasn’t advertised or available to stream, so not fan service) and he was allowed to queer code his Like Crazy music video. So I believe he has some agency and say over his projects. I’m not sure he’s entirely understood or appreciated by his company—frankly, I think his potential was underestimated—but I don’t claim he’s a victim. Victim narratives play into cult dynamics.
But I digressed. I was talking about logical fallacies.
Let’s entertain the idea that for more YEARS, Jungkook and Taehyung have been horribly abused by their management and forced to hide their relationship.
They never thought to address this issue when they were renewing their contracts?
Also, what’s up with all the footage during RUN episodes when they are standing together, or on the same team, or hugging and cuddling, or leaning their heads on each other’s shoulders and legs?
Why were they allowed to flirt and dance and do skinship on stage—and all that stuff even made it into official footage?
Now let’s entertain the idea that Taennie is a PR Relationship.
So… two rival companies, just coming out of a bitter failed deal around a music industry monopoly, are now working together to make people believe Jennie and Tae are dating?
Even though idols LOSE popularity and company stocks take a DIVE when couples are revealed?
As the dating rumor between BTS V and Blackpink Jennie was raised the day before, the stock prices of their agencies, HYBE and YG Entertainm
So Taennie is the strategy to promote solo albums and upcoming projects?? And both companies’ PR teams say “We can’t confirm it as it is their personal lives.” So no PR statement is the PR strategy??
We know it’s bullshit. It makes about as much sense as Hillary Clinton running a child sex trafficking ring out of the basement of a pizza parlor that doesn't have a basement.
But many in the cult believe it’s Absolute Truth.
The question is why?
The answer is in the dynamics at play here.
CULT DYNAMICS
It starts with a MISINFORMATION CAMPAIGN.
Baby ARMY get curious about BTS, hop on YouTube or TikTok, and are bombarded by the algorithm that claims Taekook is real.
Unless they go searching for original content (which takes up dozens and dozens of hours to sift through and much of which sits behind a paywall), they will not have much to contradict these claims.
Most older ARMY are understandably so sick and tired of the ship discourse that they don’t go into Taekook spaces and duke it out in the comments. Plus, content creators know that Taekook content gets hits and likes, which translates into passive income, so they keep making it.
See this video where a cult leader shows you she made over $109,000 in a year just from her Taekook edits:
So in the din of all this nonsense and noise, it’s up to Baby ARMY to seek out other voices, other input, to form an opinion. They have to be proactive. And sadly, a large segment of the population lacks critical thinking skills and do not WANT to seek facts.
We live in a very busy, post-fact world, where “credible messengers” (i.e., someone you know and trust) tell you their opinions. Then you try those opinions on for size, and they eventually become your opinions. It’s faster, it’s easier, and…
It lets you be part of the IN-GROUP. Next thing you know, you're part of a group chat with 400 indoctrinated members, spitting conspiracies like gospel truths.
In today’s globalized, fast-paced, hyper digital world, most people cannot tell you the names of their neighbors or local butcher or even their state’s politicians, let alone what all they stand for. But they can tell you how the Kardashians feel about organic salad in a plastic bowl, or what Trump believes about election results.
There’s a lack of real-world relationships that tether people to a shared reality.
And yet, there is a human need for Tribe.
A cult uses that instinct for TRIBE by constantly re-enforcing the notion that People Out There don’t understand, aren’t very nice, will even persecute you for knowing the truth.
But People In Here, the IN-GROUP, they appreciate you, they are reasonable and open-minded, they will be there for you when everyone else turns their backs on you and puts you down.
All you have to do to belong to the IN-GROUP is subscribe to these CONSPIRACY THEORIES.
First, you should think about becoming Anti-Establishment.
You cannot trust the Authority (company, government, scientists, whatever). The Authority is corrupt and will lie to you because it wants something from you (money, votes, microchips in the vaccines, whatever).
Do not trust what your eyes show you and what your ears hear. Believe your in-group. Be loyal to your found family. Your found family is SPECIAL.
Second, you need to begin to wake up to the Signs and Wonders.
Once you’re willing to see the truth, suddenly there are all these hints. All these little “Q-drops” of information. Like Taekook touching face moles during a song. Or seeing slowed-down, edited videos of facial expressions that look like evidence of jealousy. Or maybe hidden meanings behind tattoos of tigers and green mics. Or making a secret handshake or symbol with their fingers. These Signs and Wonders are FOR YOU.
*Now, I’m inclined to give Taekookers a bit of a break on queer couple coding because, culturally speaking, similar clothing and jewelry are couple-coded in Korea. And there are just as many if not MORE theories about Jikook using similar black and white clothing, matching jewelry, related tattoos, using special numbers in songs and timestamps, and even changing up lyrics as secret messages.
The issue here is that Jikook ACTUALLY DOES SOME OF THOSE THINGS. They actually deliberately type out specific numbers on some of their social media messages. They actually have dressed in the exact same outfits or worn each other’s clothes. They actually have changed up lyrics and sung them to each other.
Even so, any reasonable Jikooker will say “all of this is suspicious as hell, but not proof.” Like when Jungkook says his J tattoo stands for Jungkook—the placement over the M is suspicious, yes—but all sane Jikookers accept that Jungkook has spoken about that tattoo and he did not say it was for Jimin. We don't sit around calling Jungkook a liar just because we preferred our theory.
Taekookers, however, want what Jikook have so badly, even as they scorn it for merely being fan service.
Half the time the hints they claim are completely made up.
They see sandal footprints in the sand, and their leaders say it’s proof that Jungkook went on a secret beach date with Taehyung. Even though Taehyung went out with a friend and his parents that night.
Taekookers will see a photo of shoes all neatly lined up and say it’s a secret ski date with Hobi. Even though Jimin owns the exact same pair of shoes and there were no photos or accounts of them ever being at a ski lodge the day after Jin went into service.
Taekookers will swear they hear Jungkook’s voice off camera during Taehyung’s vlog and insist he was hiding in the trunk of the car during the drive to film. As if JK would hide in the trunk for hours instead of just… go in a different car that didn't have a camera??
All of these Signs and Wonders require a huge leap to arrive at the conclusion that Taekook is a romantic couple.
Meanwhile, evidence of Jikook spending birthdays together and couple holidays together and going on trips alone together and having integrated families and inner circles (stylists, tattoo artist, boxing coach) are ALL fan service. Every single person is in on the conspiracy.
Yes, even when JK’s mom screams “I love you!” to Jimin and makes her son eat seaweed soup on Jimin’s birthday, (JK was clearly FORCED to make up that story) it has to be fan service.
And when Jimin’s dad posts a photo of JK’s old dog on JK’s birthday (a birthday where Jimin visited him in the middle of working on his album, but Taehyung did not even though he wasn't working on anything), it's fan service. And when Mr. Park hosts a give-away event at his café where JK’s music is playing and cap and photo are proudly displayed next to JImin? Absolute fan service; he’s a money-hungry, attention-hungry cad, don’t you know? Even the charity he and his son do are fan service!
But JK went bowling with Wooga, so, Taekook are married. (Legally married. Not in Korea. But you know. They ARE married. Coming up on their third anniversary already!)
“married and third year anniversary this year i- 😭 this the kind of info not even sasaengs know about because it’s straight up fiction”
It’s all there, if you’re just willing to see the Signs and Wonders. And believe your cult leaders when there's nothing to see or wonder about at all.
Third and perhaps most important, is the Star-Crossed Lovers angle. The VICTIM CARD.
You see, it’s not bad enough that openly gay couples face pure hell in conservative countries anyway—losing their jobs, their families, sometimes their will to live because the stigma can be so bad. But on top of all that, for years and years, Taekook have been forced apart.
They’ve been just tortured by Jimin’s attention-whoring greedy nature, and made to endure fabricated fan service skinship!
(When Tae and JK look happy to be around Jimin, it’s just because they are professionals and such good actors!). Darn that Park Jimin, the abuser and sexual predator!!
And after so long being forced to hide, now in solo era, poor abused victimized Taekook can be loud. So loud. So very loud and wild and free!!
After all, during the Vegas concert, Jungkook sat on Taehyung’s lap!! He's NEVER sat on any other BTS members' lap (except for all of them).
And when Jungkook came online and said “Keep being jealous, I’ll keep holding Jiminie!” and that Jimin was HIS! Then fans kept asking him about Taehyung, so he also said Taehyung was his. It was totally his own organic idea (except for how it wasn't).
When fans kept pestering Jungkook during his camping VLive about Taehyung, he said he was forced to admit that Taehyung was attractive, he’d never seen a man so attractive! (FORCED to admit it! So romantic!)
Meanwhile, as all this shakes down, there’s this scandal in the press that Jimin didn’t pay his insurance premiums because his mail was omitted by the company. News of this dropped EXACTLY the moment his first OST With You came out, and he went totally quiet.
And then, Jungkook also went quiet for a while too. He deleted all his previous Insta photos that were personal and changed the layout to be totally professional. He went to the White House. He did a collab. He partied for JitB. He went on a Meat Tour of Korea. He did a concert with his members. He headlined World Cup. But mostly he was getting quieter and quieter.
Eventually Jungkook deleted the app entirely. Sometimes he stayed in his home for six days at a time. He stopped working out or going into Hybe; he started drinking whiskey. And nowadays he doesn’t even want to look at the comments on lives. Not because he was sick of the Taekookers or anything, but because “the company is forcing them to hide!”
Of course.
And all throughout 2022, Taehyung and Jungkook are paired up for things, and Tae's talking about a fortune teller saying he and Jungkook were “fire and water.” And rather than be taken as cute moments between friends, these are just VERY LOUD SIGNS AND WONDERS.
Then there are leaks online of all these photos that involved Tae and Jennie.
And thus begins tons of lives where he mentions Jungkook.
I'm not saying Kim Taehyung had an agenda to throw fans off the scent of his actual relationship, but I'm also not NOT saying that.
Whatever his motivations, the cult interpreted this as a direct message for Taekookers to keep the faith!
And indeed, Taekook do hang out—sometimes openly. (Sometimes where there’s press that make them hold up signs while cameras are going off—but that’s not for work, that’s a date, because the security team there wasn’t Hybe’s, and it was a friend’s premiere.) Sometimes quietly, where they share photos of hanging out afterwards.
But it cannot be just two friends hanging out. It’s Signs and Wonders!! SO LOUD!! SO FREE!!
So many reveals—mostly coming from Taehyung, but Jungkook doesn’t often deny them. And it’s mostly Taehyung stroking Jungkook’s hair or laying his head on Jungkook’s thigh or whatever—but Jungkook doesn’t stop him. And Jimin seems totally unbothered by all of it, which is strange because it sort of debunks years of his efforts at fan service.
Yet, clearly THIS cannot be fan service or misdirection.
It can’t just be friends playing games, or a TikTok made for work. It can’t be recording someone without their informed consent for attention. It can’t be going to a concert with other members and sitting in separate rows as friends. Or going to a musical or movie to support friends. Unlike all the things Jungkook has done with Jimin, this has to be Real Love!!
So just to recap:
When the cult had no evidence of Taekook hanging out, they were a private couple.
When the cult had ever-increasing evidence of Taekook hanging out, they were being loud.
When the cult had evidence that Jikook hang out outside of work, that was just fan service.
When the cult had no evidence that Jikook hang out outside of work, that was just fan service getting exposed.
When the cult has evidence that Taehyung has a girlfriend, that’s a punishment.
MARTYRDOM
You see, Jungkook and Taehyung would go on WeLives without permission, remember? And Taehyung set up a dual live chat on Insta and JK didn't seem that into it but he was persuaded. Then they giggled and couldn’t find much to talk about for ten minutes. And Taehyung said he would take full responsibility for it.
And the cult now believes that “taking responsibility” means pretending to be in a heterosexual relationship. Even their insider sasaeng accounts predicted it!
Never mind how mad all of this seems. And it would be one thing if just one or two ideas were far-fetched, like looking at a pair of shoes and making assumptions. But all of it is far-fetched.
Facts do not matter. Because you cannot trust the Authority. You can only trust the In-Group.
And the In-Group sees Signs and Wonders. So the In-Group knows the Real Truth.
The In-Group DECIDES TOGETHER what is real.
They can make entirely fake edits; cosplay; post false witness statements; harass models, coworkers, brands, businesses… they can hire trucks to circle the building with loud speakers, protesting and shouting their truth!!
And anyone who doesn’t believe the Real Truth is a Fake Taekooker.
No disbelievers allowed. Get out of the tribe. Only the faithful can stay in the Tribe.
Right now, you might be asking yourself: Why would you stay in a tribe like this??
Because the dynamic is ever-evolving, which is titillating, and participants get a sense of power, because they are able to help craft the narratives—by being so smart as to see the truth where others are blind sheep—so they can bond over how unique they are.
Plus… TAEKOOK NEEDS THEM.
The boys absolutely depend on their support. You see, Taekookers are the real HEROES here.
They understand the boys like normal people never could. If you know you know, and they are steadfast against any and all lies presented as evidence. They are loyal.
The whole world is against their baby bear and baby bunny!! They are the boys Only Defense. Just take a look at this video of their rallying cry:
If you've got martyrs, you've also got... CRUSADERS.
Yikes, right?
So, here are millions of fans who were lied to, misled, misinformed… They developed relationships over time with people who also believe this misinformation… They get a sense of power in crafting their own reality, in which the objects of their affection are victims and they are the heroes… And the only way to prove themselves worthy of the group is to stalwartly ignore anything that contradicts these narratives.
This is a literal, textbook cult.
Cults use deception, isolation, peer pressure, group-think, and suppression of critical thought. To varying degrees, all Taekook spaces do this too. (And yes, other ships and solos and mantis ALSO rely on these tactics. But I've never seen anything quite so open or pervasive in ARMY like the Taekook cult tactics.)
I feel I should make one thing should be made clear: a LOT of people sincerely believe in Taekook.
But there are also a lot of Taekook content creators who sincerely believe in the money they make off people believing in Taekook.
Like all cults, at the end of the day, it's a scam.
Now there’s evidence of a real relationship, and of course anyone who has invested time and money in Taekook is going to be pushing back—hard.
So how do we navigate this chaos?
Well, most cults end in one of two ways: an FBI raid, or everyone drinks the Kool-Aid and dies.
But more often than not, cults don’t really end so much as fizzle out over years.
Plenty of cults are still alive and well despite amble debunking (Scientology, Q-Anon, Illuminati, flat-Earthers, Larries—what they believe doesn’t really matter; it’s how they believe that makes them a cult.)
Cults are a bit like hydras—you cut off one head, three stronger ones pop back up.
They won't stop. They have to BE STOPPED.
HOW TO DEPROGRAM A CULT
Well, back in the 70s, in the early days of deprogramming, the only thing that was effective was to separate the individual from access to the cult (by kidnapping if you had to), then bombard them non-stop with facts (using imprisonment or restraints if you had to) and eventually they are coerced into re-integration. But none of that is humane or legal by today’s standards.
It also leads to relapses.
Really the only way to deprogram cult conditioning is for a mental health professional to slowly and methodically discredit the cult leader(s) and gently present contradictions.
(How can Jungkook really be in a relationship with Taehyung if he’s always mentioning Jimin? How can Jimin be hurting Taehyung and yet they are on FaceTime for hours, trading fan art and watching tv shows? Why would the two most rich and famous pop stars in the world need a publicity stunt?)
And even then, the cult member has to be sort of able to question things for themselves, and it just helps to have other supportive people echoing their own questioning sentiments back to them.
It can take YEARS until a cult member reaches the breaking point and begins to listen to Out-Group ideas. (On average, five years, to be exact.)
And then they may begin a journey of self-expression, where they openly voice doubts or complaints against cult narratives. They may even engage in transference, jumping off the Taekook ship and onto another (the need for tribe is very real). This is an extremely vulnerable stage and should not be taken advantage of.
At this critical moment when someone is tittering on the fence, trying to figure out what reality is, you need to REWARD THE BEHAVIOR YOU WANT.
You want them to question. You want them to express their grief and doubts. You want them to look for real sources of information.
This is NOT the time to kick someone when they are down, or look for “gotcha” moments to shame them publicly.
If you see a Taekooker wondering if they’ve been lied to this whole time—they HAVE. And that is abuse. And abuse victims need to be handled with care.
I know that Taekookers have dragged Jimin to hell and back for years so I’m not about to preach love and acceptance.
But it’s also fair to say that Taekookers have been gas-lit and realizing that can be traumatic.
Wounded animals are dangerous. A traumatized human lashes out. And you know who the prime target always is. They are already starting to take it to Jimin directly.
I strongly recommend you take a very cautious approach if you engage with them right now. Especially if you’re thinking about arguing with them.
People who defend Jimin or Jikook end up doxxed, suspended, harassed--and someday, I fear a wounded cult member will get physically violent.
Be especially careful because plenty of big accounts are closeted Taekookers. Here's a thread exposing some "mystery cult" members:
THE MOST EFFECTIVE RESPONSE
I normally don’t try to police people or preach too much, but I’m going to give you some unsolicited advice if you managed to read all this:
Don’t go into Taekook tags or spaces. Don’t debate them. Don’t talk trash about them or the members. Don’t slam-dunk or spike the ball with snarky words or memes. Don’t give them a taste of their own medicine. Don’t be cruel.
First of all, don’t do any of that because Jimin and Jungkook would be mortified by it.
But second of all, don’t do it because it just makes them dig in harder; it adds weeks or months to the deprogramming timeline.
The goal is to get the cult out of ARMY fandom. Because they thrive on a victim/hero complex, attacking them reinforces cult dynamics.
I believe there is a better approach.
First, you can and should go Gray Rock whenever possible.
Starve them of oxygen. Don’t acknowledge them. If you do, be generic in your responses—boringly bland, detachedly polite. Ignore them completely; their hot takes do not matter.
Block and report if warranted, but never engage. On some level, they really want to be persecuted for their beliefs. It's why they keep coming into Jikook spaces looking for a fight.
But their beliefs are so ridiculous that they aren’t worth our time. Instead, direct your focus on what you want, which is to promote and celebrate Bangtan.
Second, you can provide what’s called a Graceful Exit.
It doesn’t always work if they know that’s what you’re doing, but it is perhaps the most effective technique, especially if they are already questioning the cult narrative.
You see, a shamed human being gets defensive, doubles down, won’t listen. But a human being offered a Graceful Exit Out of a Bad Place gets to reinvent themselves in a way that allows them some dignity while they change direction.
A Graceful Exit has a few components to it:
“Hello, Taekooker. I also saw a lot of misleading content when I was a baby ARMY. The algorithm feeds you Taekook content almost immediately. Then you make online friends, and they all believe in Taekook. Suddenly everyone is telling you really complicated theories about how Taekook is being hidden. Once you believe that, you have to also believe that Taekook are lying by omission, that Jimin and the members are also lying, that the company executives and translators and managers and staff are all lying, that Korean ARMY is lying, that fellow I-ARMY is lying… and that’s a lot of people spreading a lie for no real gain. Now that you have some evidence that Tae is happily in a relationship with someone else, it’s only natural to question your beliefs, because YES, Taehyung and Jungkook absolutely love each other. But are they IN love? NO. For my part, I trust Taehyung. I love and support Taehyung. I don’t spread the idea that he or Jungkook engage in fake relationships. If you support them, then you’ll accept what they are showing you. When you’re ready to stop shipping Taekook, ARMY will be ready to welcome you back. We can stream together and vote together and help our boys achieve their dreams. We can watch their content and go to concerts together and enjoy fan-works. But what we can’t do is make up really complex stories around BTS’ reality. Our place as fans is to appreciate their music, and let them live their own lives in their own way. It’s time to let go of old ideas, and embrace the new things they share with us.”
This tactic allows the cult member to feel sympathy for being human. It provides understanding that they’ve been deceived. It appeals to their higher nature and love for the objects of their affection. And reassures them they could have a place in a bigger tribe if they let go of the in-group.
It invites them in, instead of calls them out.
Now, you guys might not be willing to do that. Especially considering the hate trains and rape jokes and death threats they gave Jimin for years. Believe me, I get it. I GET IT.
So if you see someone spewing vitriol, now is not the time to call them in. Now is the time to block and report.
However, if I take out my anger on them, it’s serving my own feelings.
And I’m here to serve Jimin, Jungkook, and BTS, not my own need to be right.
So I believe the best way to do that is to Gray Rock the Die-hards and provide a Graceful Exit for the Questioners.
Many cult members are not going to believe in Taennie unless Kim Taehyung makes an announcement directly--and even then, he’ll have to do it in such an emphatic way that they buy what he sells.
So we should accept that the cult is going to be around for a long, long time. Conserve your energy, my dears.
But for the ones who just got fooled but don't intend any harm, we can either hope they let go of their own volition, or we can try to make room for them as part of true ARMY.
What we shouldn’t do is get down in the mud and start slinging. Everyone loses ground that way.
THIS WAS THE LONGEST EVER POST; I AM SORRY!
But these have been my thoughts over the last few days. I’m okay if you want to comment, but I would like to ask that you DO NOT reblog to tag Taekook and that you don’t weaponize this post by spreading it around specifically where it could cause drama.
Drama is the exact opposite of my intention.
My desire is to provide some better understanding around how cults work and how to disband them.
In conclusion: Keep it classy. Ignore assholes. Be gentle with people recovering from gas-lighting. Stay true to the principles of BTS and ARMY. Apobangpo.
Hi Euna! So as an international Army I've always seen other international Army saying that the level of platonic physical and sometimes emotional intimacy we see between BTS is common in South Korea and they often times use that reasoning to downplay the idea of a romantic relationship between jikook.
I saw this talking point being used this week with the jikook hickey saga. People commenting that it's no big deal in the grand scheme of things. Saying that using this as some kind of proof for jikook is nonsense. Comparing jikook interactions to things like jimin kissing tae on the hand or tae kissing namjoon on the side of the head.
Now personally I think there's a difference between how jikook interact with each other and how they individually interact with the rest of the guys. I also think that people are leaning heavily on the idea that jikook interactions are normal south Korean skinship activities between male friends to debunk the idea that their interactions are romantic.
But if that's the case, why do so many Korean army's interpret jikook interactions as something more than platonic? Wouldn't they know the difference between friendly skinship and romantic skinship? Is there a difference?
I guess my question is, what can you say about the people who lean on skinship to excuse away everything jikook do with each other? Is it just us using our western eyes to view something not of our culture and misinterpreting? Is south Korean male skinship really as close as we think it is?
Would love to hear your views on this as someone familiar with both cultures intimately. Love your deep dives btw!
Firstly, I truly wonder what gives some international Army the confidence to speak on Korean culture so freely when they're not Korean themselves. Like no, you are not an expert on another culture's social norms just because you're a fan of their celebrities. No matter how invested you are.
I completely understand and respect not wanting to 'ship' Jungkook and Jimin. But when you start undermining their relationship and speaking on things which you have no authority to speak about just to push forth a narrative that makes you comfortable, that's when we have a problem.
Yes, it can be said that in some cases, skinship between male friends are more commonplace and normalized than it is in the west. But as with any aspect of culture, its nuances and boundaries are complex and situational.
A younger dongsaeng* having a drink with his hyung is perfectly normal. No one would bat an eye.
A younger dongsaeng having a drink with his hyung, lifting his hyung in a bridal carry, spinning him around until said hyung got dizzy enough to demand he be let down—which he expressed by biting said dongsaeng on the neck, significantly hard/long enough to form a bruise—emphatically does not fall under normal levels of skinship. No matter how selectively you pick and choose parts of Korean culture to use for your own means, and even if you choose not to read anything romantic into what happened, that doesn't change the fact that it's just plain weird. They're weird for what they did, and Jin and Tae's reactions to them re-telling their story are further proof to that.
I guess in conclusion, I would like to respectfully ask that if you're not Korean, to not drag our culture into a discussion that you're not qualified to participate in. It comes across as silly and ignorant and frankly—is quite annoying.
(*Here's another word that people love to misinterpret/pretend they're experts on. For the record, no, dongsaeng not limited to blood-related ties. It's used to refer to anyone who is younger than you.)
T.N: Jungkook addressed Jimin as if he was talking to someone younger when in reality Jimin is 2 years older. It is also a way senior artists talk to younger/less experienced ones to show them their support. And Jimin answered as if he was really the youngest willing to work hard after getting encouragement from a veteran artist.
The way Jungkook stops whatever he is doing the second Jimin calls his name or asks him for something.
It doesn’t matter whether or not he heard the question or even registered in his mind whatever Jimin said, because the second he hears his name coming from Jimin, he automatically stops everything.
It’s almost as if taking care of Jimin takes priority above all else. From the gimbap vlive alone, just look at the way he keeps dropping whatever he’s doing to help Jimin whenever he asks. Not once did he whine or complain that Jimin should just do it himself. From answering Jimin’s questions, to looking for something for him, he almost always gives him his undivided attention.
*Disclaimer: This post isn’t against any ship, it’s against a narrative for shipping.
Can We Rely on Body Language to Confirm a Ship?
Before answering this question, I have to bring up and answer another question: “Can we rely on body language at all?”
The answer is yes, but we can do this only in specific circumstances. Not all acts or interactions are interpretable in the body language system. What do we mean when by “Body Language”?
Definition of Body Language
Body language refers to the nonverbal signals that we use to communicate. According to experts, these nonverbal signals make up a huge part of daily communication. From our facial expressions to our body movements, the things we don’t say can still convey volumes of information. It has been suggested that body language may account for between 60 to 65% of all communication. Understanding body language is important, but it is also essential to pay attention to other cues such as context. In many cases, you should look at signals as a group rather than focusing on a single action.
Before starting to learn body language and going into detail, you have to know the first and most important thing which is “baselining”. A baseline is how someone acts when they are under normal, non-threatening conditions. You easily can establish baselines by sitting down with the person you want to read better—your child, your spouse, your friend–and talking casually to them about neutral topics that they would have no reason to lie about, such as the weather or what they want to have for dinner. Take note of how they act, how they hold their body, how they sound. Once you have established someone’s baseline, you can look for some of the typical gestures people make with their eyes, outlined below. If you see one of these clues and it is different from their baseline behavior, you know it is a red flag and you have to dig a little deeper. [1]
This might sound boring but if you read the upper paragraphs, you will know how important baseline is. You can’t analyze a person’s body language without having enough data about their personality and normal behavior unless you are an expert in this field. Now let’s find the answer to this post’s main question.
Can We Rely on Body Language for Sexual Attraction?
Can we use body language to tell if two persons have ever had an intimate relationship or they are sexually attracted to each other? The answer is positive. Experts can do this and Ms. Cora Boyd, is one of them. You can watch this video to see how amazing she does her job:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywpoj0SS0sk
Cora Boyd is a dating coach who works with big dating app companies and if you visit her official website and LinkedIn profile, you can see that her education is all in psychology-related fields and with the gift she has, she can tell if two persons have ever been in an intimate relationship just by monitoring their interactions and body language.
In conclusion, body language can be used for this purpose only by professionals (amateurs can have their opinions too) BUT there is a big BUT here a professional will ever expose a closeted celebrity, this is rule no.1 of professionalism. So, we can tell body language analysis can be used to confirm a ship but it can never come to the eyes of the public for moral and professional reasons.
Umentory
If you are into ships of BTS, you have probably heard that a “body language expert has analyzed both KM and TK ships” and in his opinion, TK can be real but KM is just a friendly/brotherly relationship. But what was the story behind these analyses?
The YT channel which released these videos was named Umentory (now changed to Supercepción) is running by a guy named César Aurelio Ceballos Peña. He created a poll in his channel to do a ship analysis including KM, TK, Larry, and few other ships. Both Jikookers and Taekookers voted for their favorite ship and as we expected TK won the first place. When I watched his first video and heard him saying "touching ear is an undeniable sign of sexual desire” I found out that this guy has no idea about Korean culture and Kpop skinship and the case was closed for me. But when he made a video for KM (despite TK winning the second poll too) and claiming that KM can’t be real, by familiar statements like “JK is not comfortable” I started to doubt his sincerity and honesty and did a deep research about him:
Mr. César Aurelio Ceballos Peña has a Ph.D. in Fiscal Science and runs courses about body language (apparently from 2015 to 2017). You can check his resume and his LinkedIn profile. I searched a lot but didn’t find any psychology-related subject in his education except an article named “Bases para la interpretación del Lenguaje Corporal (2013)” which I couldn’t find it to be published anywhere. All his job experiences and educations are related to Fiscal Science and he has to be good at his jobs as an economy expert or teacher at communication in the economy. But as I said before, a body language expert has to have psychology-related educations to make legit statements, and they have to be aware that those statements can ruin lives of closeted celebrities in a homophobic country.
Dr. César Aurelio Ceballos Peña didn’t act like a professional but the 3 videos (2 for TK and one for KM) were a breakthrough for his channel. If you check his channel on this website you can see the significant growth in the number of his subscribers, viewers, and income after that specific date.
But what made me do this research?
To make it more clear, I have to refer to another YT channel, the infamous Taekook-lives. If you have watched her videos you already know that body language plays a big role is her analysis and she always claims to know about body language more than the rest of us.
TW/ conspiracy theory
If you try to connect the dots with some conspiracy theories you can tell that Umentory guy came at the exact time of need when TK was almost cancelled by Tae himself and Umentory’s unprofessional claims were perfectly matching with Taekook-lives theories and narratives. I have heard much worse Youtubers jobbery stories that this one will not surprise if it comes out to be true.
Anyways, conspiracy or not, this was a win-win game for both of them.
Conclusion
When someone tries to do a body language analysis, they have to consider many things and the circumstance is the most important one of those things. You have to know everything that person is going through, the stress, exhaustion, sleep deprivation, presence of cameras, audiences and many other things can change the behavior of a normal person. And not to mention some people are not easy to read and they can easily get misunderstood (I am one of them!)
So when we talk about shipping, body language can’t be considered as a reliable source to prove that ship is real or not. What we saw from the idols’ lives, is just a surface, the thing they (idols themselves, the companies …) decide to show us. The acts that are affected by thousands of variables and those acts can never be analyzed properly and reliably unless you know all the variables.
Sure we can read people’s body language signs and tell if they are happy, excited, sad, stressed, shy, feeling down, and … but we can never make conclusions about ships out of these emotions. These emotions, actions and reactions can be the result of many things we are not aware of. And as Ms. Cora Boyd said perfectly:
There’s a certain domesticity in Jimin and Jungkook’s relationship nowadays.
Sometimes it’s mellow and underlying, like the warmth of a fireplace on a cold night. Soothing, comforting. Other times it’s as blatant as the spicy scent of the earth after the first rains hit it. It leaves a freshness in its wake that you just can’t ignore, unless you risk holding your breath.
JM has always relished in his role as JK’s ‘elder’. Being a hyung is second nature to people like him and TH. They both eased into it right from the start, as opposed to Jin or JH, who had to learn how to become an elder sibling. The way JM doted on JK at the beginning was not very different from how he would have treated his own little brother. The similarities between them made it all the more easy, it was familiar grounds for him. He knew the game play, knew which cards to lay on the table. The elder gave, the younger received. It was a rather set in stone dynamic.
But JK is not his little brother. Similar does not mean same and the familiarity stopped once JK started giving back. And JM was, perhaps, pleasantly surprised by the reversal.
It started with the subtle yet not so small things actually. When JK stood by the window, waiting for JM while he went to retrieve his lost bag alone (BV1), when JK lagged behind from the group to walk alongside JM, when JK eased JM into soft hugs from the back, when JK stuttered at JM’s touch, only to caress the same spot pensively with his own fingers later. And then it escalated to JK staring at JM unwaveringly, JK complimenting JM at every turn, JK sitting by JM’s side as he worried over his imperfections, JK buying JM and only JM birthday presents, and getting called out for it.
JK dedicating his first major, memorable work of art - made entirely by himself - solely to JM.
You see, younger siblings don’t really do that. They’d sometimes hold surprise birthday parties, or maybe leave notes of love and thanks. They’d be that random source of encouragement when you least expect it, but they’re very rarely a constant source of support. Younger sisters would cry to you about their worries, and then turn around and hug you when you spill yours. Younger brothers would play-fight you for the last slice of pizza, then share a piece with an embarrassed shove to your shoulder when you tease them for being too soft.
JK, he went above and beyond that.
And JM was likely left overwhelmed because not only was he seeing a different side to JK, JM was folding over into a different role himself. He was seeing the world through the eyes of someone being cared for, someone being doted on. For JM, a natural giver, someone who’s used to being in control, this would have generally clashed with his own character but it didn’t. For JK is always observant enough to let JM run the show as the latter saw fit, interjecting softly whenever he wished to remind JM that he needn’t be a ‘hyung’ to him all the time anymore.
This in turn helped JM evolve, both as a person and as one-half of JM&JK. When he says he sometimes feels like he is JK’s father, he’s in awe. He’s shy (the subtle hair touches), he finds it funny and intriguing that JK brings out such emotions in him. It’s different to how a father would feel upon tucking his child in and kissing them goodnight, but it’s similar to how the same father would feel when he sees his partner lying sprawled on the bed, tired, and he shakes his head smiling as he coaxes them to go shower before sleep. It is domestic and JM is intrigued that JK evokes such feelings in him. We see this when JM touches/rubs JK’s back sometimes when they’re sitting around chatting with others, in the proud smile on JM’s face when JK demonstrates his emotional growth, when JM senses JK’s hesitation to talk and speaks in his stead, only to pass the baton back to him once JK is ready to share his two cents to the world.
There’s a relay in between them, a give and take, the same yin and yang as before, only much more enhanced, so much more beautiful.
When I look at them now I do see a family, I do see friendship, I can still see two brothers, but I see so much more than that. I see a couple so comfortable in each others’ spaces, that their previously separate bubbles have now conjoined to envelop them both inside one big bubble. I still see the hyung in JM when he playfully ruffles JK’s hair, but that morphs into something softer, stronger when his hand caresses down JK’s head and lingers at his neck to lay soft touches there. And I see the same softness being relayed back, when JK takes the spatula from JM’s hand and cuts the pizza for him, leaving JM free to smile and giggle and engage in the conversation around them. It reminds me of my own family, of my dad taking the bowl of half-peeled potatoes from my mom, continuing on the task for her as she gets engrossed in her animated conversation with him. It makes me feel like i’m intruding, yet it leaves me content more than embarrassed.
There is a certain domesticity in Jimin and Jungkook’s relationship nowadays, and it reminds me of warm fireplaces and earthy scents. Of love and life and happiness and the little things that build up to it.
Anything that focuses on Erica where they live? Please? Thanks for your help last time, loved them all!!!
So glad I could help!! ❤️ Thank you for your patience! I know sometimes it takes me awhile. 🤦🏻♀️
You’re an Understatement (you’re getting worse) by LadySlytherin | 13.5K
Erica’s goal in life was to be hired by Neckz’n’Throats. Not as a model, though she knew she was hot enough for that. No, she wanted to be behind the camera. And to do that, she needed two things. A glowing recommendation, and a portfolio that would grab their attention; that would make them take her seriously. For that, she needed the right models. Thankfully, she knew just who to ask.
Unwind by coffeeinallcaps | 15K
Hope you enjoy your present, the text from Erica says. Payment’s taken care of. You can thank me tomorrow.
“So you’re a werewolf, huh,” the guy says when Derek looks up at him again. His gaze drifts down from Derek’s face to the rest of his body, slowly, shamelessly. When it’s traveled back up and their eyes meet again, the corner of the guy’s mouth twitches up into a cocky little half-smile. “I fucking love working with werewolves.”
have a mind to just let my whole body go by verity | 14.3K
Derek’s a pregnant omega werewolf; Stiles and Erica do steady business as the only supernaturally qualified omega midwives in five counties. Clearly, it’s meant to be.
The Predictability of I Told You So’s by crossroadswrite | 3.1K
“Erica,” he calls, patiently waiting until she deigns to turn his way. “It’s the fifth time in two weeks. I didn’t order this. You know it. I know it. Hot Angry Hale knows it, and I’d really like to get to work without any significant maiming so could you please, give me my order.”
Erica pouts, “You’re no fun, Stilinski.”
“You know what I am though? Hungry-“
petals in my pocket by Withpetals_withblood | 36K
Derek is the alpha of a pack of young wolves who are busy finding babysitters, planning holidays, holding jobs and clinging to normalcy. When Peter pitches the idea to plant flowers on the Hale property, Derek doesn’t quite take him seriously. That is until he walks into the little floral shop off 1st and Oakheart and meets the strange young man from out of town, Stiles Stilinski.
Our Kind of Nuts by ericaismeg | 22.5K
Stiles doesn’t know that reaching out to Erica, a girl from his Psych class, is going to change his entire life. All he wanted was a quiet place to study. Suddenly, he’s becoming best friends with Erica, getting a tutor from Boyd, going crazy over this guy who is quite passionate about Pride and Prejudice named Derek, being supportive to Lydia, finding some weird peace treaty with Jackson, and inviting Erica’s best friend to live with him, Scott, and Jackson for a bit.
He didn’t expect things to turn out like this, but hell, he’s not complaining one bit.
Hale’s Library & Coffee Shop by scarlettletterr | 3.8K
College Student Stiles is looking for a place to work - so he can pay his bills - when his friend from class, Erica, mentions that her boss is looking for someone to help at Hale’s Library and Coffee Shop.Stiles gets the job, along with a giant crush on his boss, Derek, that seems obvious to anyone but him.
here is the deepest secret nobody knows by owlpostagain | 22.3K
“Derek,” Stiles groans. “You have me. You’ve always had me, you absolute moron, how many physically impossible feats of life-saving heroics do I have to perform before you get it?”
Where You Still Remember Dreaming by yodasyoyo | 95.6K
“What’s your name? I can’t keep calling you Balto.”
“What’s yours?”
“Stiles.”
Derek raises an eyebrow. That isn’t his real name. There’s no way. But now he thinks about it, he has a vague memory of someone, probably Uncle Peter, telling him that with the fae, names have power. “I’m Miguel,” he says.
Possibly I Like The Thrill Of Under Me You by stilinskisparkles | 12.2K
It’s not that the idea of Stiles talking about him doesn’t make his stomach wrap itself in knots, it’s that it does just that. It makes him unbelievably uncomfortable and he doesn’t quite know why. He’s twenty seven years old, he pays taxes, he takes his mother out for lunch on Sundays; he is a grown up. But he’s getting weird butterflies when he glances over his shoulder to look at Stiles and a heat in his chest that feels something like what he supposes want must feel like.
Sorry if this has already been asked recently but any updates on the feral!derek tag? Also thanks for all the work you do :D
Sure!
lost and found by EvanesDust | 7.7K
After his 21st birthday, Stiles finally has enough money to move out on his own. It’s been 6 months and while he sees his father often, he sometimes still feels alone. Which is why he’s currently standing outside of Beacon Hills Humane Society.
Fully Grown by thedaughterofkings | 36K
Stumbling across a wolf in the preserve is not what Stiles expects when he goes for a run the last night before school starts again. But even if the wolf acts more intelligent than a mere animal, he can’t have anything to do with Stiles’ unusual soulmark, four vicious scratches down his forearm, can he?
And what is Kate Argent doing back in Beacon Hills for the first time since the Hale Fire?
That Infamous Middle Ground by LadyDrace | 6.8K
Stiles is the spark that can get shit done when others can’t. Talia is President of the United States.
And Derek? Gets kidnapped.
It’s a lot more complicated than that, however.
Stay by Smowkie | 18.4K
Stiles had just gotten off his fourth long shift in a row and was looking forward to going home to his bed. He had plans to spend the next day, his first day off in more than a week, in bed or on the couch with junk food and bad tv. When he approached his Jeep and saw Derek on the ground next to the passenger door he groaned but hurried over.
“Derek, what the fuck? What happened?”
Resolutions Are Made to be Broken. by isthatbloodonhisshirt (wasterella) | 12.6K
Red stained the floor in front of his window, a pool of it slowly spreading outward from the unconscious body. Black hair was grown out, greasy and full of leaves. The hand Stiles could see was missing a few nails, and covered in light scratches. The leather jacket was ripped to shreds and the jeans were dirty and holey, blood staining the material.
Even though he couldn’t see his face, even though it had been two years, even though he had just promised himself that this year, this year, would be the year where he never again thought of Derek Hale…
