yes, maybe a good chance to post my translation of this interview with Martin Gore from 2003 again. Hold during his solo tour here in Cologne / Germany 2003. Ignore mistakes please!
MARTIN L. GORE – Interview by Max Dax for Alert in 2003
From the Tulip Suite of the Cologne’s Hyatt-Hotel you’ve got a beautiful view on the dome – and the carnival which is celebrated by hundreds of thousands on the other side of the river. But the spectacle is far away, the isolated windows don’t let the noise get in. Martin L. Gore, the songwriter of Depeche Mode, sits comfortably on the leather-chrome sofa on which presents like letters, cd’s, vinyls are piling up that were made to him by journalists during the day.
The actual reason for this interview is Martin Gore’s second solo-album “Counterfeit²”. Same as its proceeder it contains cover versions only, amongst them some surprising highlights, two country ballads, one song from Cluster, “Lost In The Stars” by Kurt Weill. But the conversation soon focuses more on life with Depeche Mode. Since their singer Dave Gahan nearly overdosed and died in 1996, the band has redefined itself radically.
Mr. Gore, do you like America, do you like country music?
I love Willie Nelson. Why do you ask?
Because hearing the name Depeche Mode everyone thinks of electropop, maybe stadium rock or Dave Gahan’s drug history. On your second solo album “Counterfeit²” you are completely surprisingly interpreting two traditional American country ballads.
That is right. Already the opening song is an old Blues song. It’s called “In My Time Of Dying” and I became aware of it just recently when I played again Bob Dylan’s first album on my record player. I didn’t know the original version which was the starting point for Dylan’s version – he only re-arranged that song, particularly the way he sings the song makes his version a re-arrangement. I liked the lyrics and the atmosphere of the song, so I started to search for older versions. I got hold of a version from Josh White, who also only reinterpreted the song, because in the end “In My Time Of Dying” is a traditional. It was a shellack record from the 1930s. During my search I also discovered another version of this song, which I obviously also bought. It was the one from Blind Willie Johnson, a recording from the 1930s. The melody was in all three versions similar, the arrangements were always different and also the lyrics varied from version to version a little bit. Only the theme, the built-up of the song was the same. The fact that the lyrics in these old traditionals are never exactly the same is probably due to the fact that those travelling musicians in America that were going from place to place with their guitars, all used the same roots of the song but they all added some verses themselves. The history of American music is also a history of oral culture from the father to the son. Wasn’t it like that?
And then you recorded a second ballad that also originated from that time.
Exactly, that is “I Cast A Lonesome Shadow” – a track from Hank Thompson. This is a real country-outlaw song, here simply all pieces fall together. This one is from the 1950s.
The beauty about these songs is that they are all about myths and legends. They are all kind of compressed written history of the old, dark America as the pop critic Greil Marcus once called it.
For me it was not really this idea of the old America that fascinated me. I’ve simply always been more attracted to the rather sad stories than those with a happy ending. I always found the idea of writing a happy song one day appalling. Happy songs simply are not able to reach and touch you deep inside. I feel much more connected to the universe when I write or sing songs that deal i.e. with variations of loneliness or sadness.
Is it for you a quality criterion if a song consists mostly of moll-chords?
In my songs most but not all of the chords are in moll. But it’s not that I have the rule that it has to be sad or in moll. It simply happens. People told me repeatedly that the subjects of the songs I covered are the same subjects that I write about for Depeche Mode. This is probably not a big surprise. I simply feel safe and at home in these songs. I like this music.
Because you’re working on known ground. But isn’t it frustrating at the same time to realize that every feeling of loneliness, every description of sadness has been said already? That there have been other singers and songwriters before you who have written down everything already?
I can assure you that I really can’t be bothered what other people have said already or not. The only thing I think about is what I myself have already said. Dave has once commented very fittingly on this “Martin has built up a carrier of 20 years on one single subject”.
Yes, in a certain way. Most songs I write are about the various forms of relationships. What makes them good is that they always have a certain twist, a turn. This distinguishes them from ordinary, straight pop-songs. It only gets absurd if people expect you to stay with this subject. Still, it needs to be interesting. This is maybe something like the artistic difficulty of the whole thing. And this is possibly as well the reason why there are so long breaks in between the Depeche Mode albums.
You mean you first have to make certain experiences in order to write about them? In the end you are more or less the songwriter in the band and not Dave who is only singing your songs.
For me it is difficult to publish records quicker than in this 3 – 4 years cycle. In the very beginning of the band this was somehow much easier. Maybe that was because when you’re younger you might still make the same amount of experiences but you’re reflecting them differently. Maybe quicker because the brain is still working quicker, don’t know. Additionally, something that I would call quality control didn’t play such a big role. I wouldn’t feel comfortable nowadays producing records in such a short period of time.
One thing that has never changed is your relation to Germany. At school you learned German, you have recorded several Depeche records in Germany and today you’re even singing Nico’s song “Das Lied vom einsamen Maedchen” in German. Is it the grey sky that attracts you?
I’d say it was a lucky coincidence that in contrast to most others I learned German and not Spanish or so. West-Germany then was the obvious choice of place to visit. For most of the Americans or British Germany is a really strange country because they don’t understand their language. In 1984 I even moved to Berlin and lived there for about 2 years. Obviously this time has made an impression on me. I had a German girlfriend in Berlin, I stayed with her for 5 years altogether. These things do influence you, they build a basis of feelings you may have for a country. Surely I was also always interested in German music, especially the music of Kurt Weill. Just to make that clear: if I would have to take 10 songs off my album then the one song that would have remained would be Lost In The Stars from Kurt Weill.
Interestingly this is also the one song that remained the closest to the original version. Due to respect?
You’re right but how should I have recorded this song any differently? “Lost In The Stars” was the first song that I chose. This was very clear right from the beginning. All other songs were re-interpreted and equipped with my own identity. Up to now I don’t know what to change to such a perfect song. I mean, at least I have recorded it electronically. But Kurt Weill’s music is so complex and his chord structure is so unique that leaving even one sound out would leave a gap. This was very different with John Lennon. Here I could reduce “Oh My Lord” on a minimum of chords and the song still worked. You understand what I mean? I have quite a few strong relations to Germany.
You like to work with German avantgardists like for example when you give remix works to producers like Stefan Betke
Yes, Stefan is a really nice guy. I met him a while ago after a Depeche Mode show in Berlin. I really like Pole. One of my favorite musicians is Uwe Schmidt alias Atom Heart alias Senior Coconut. He did the remix for my first single Stardust.
How close do you follow the current music scene in Germany? After all you have a tendency to program music more and more compressed and abstract. This is an area which has been cultivated by Cologne bands like Coloma or Kreidler.
Surely I follow what is released in Germany. And I also listen closely to what is released in other countries. But I have to admit that lot’s of this music is coming from Germany and here from Cologne. But every now and then there is the same in America and even more in the UK. I have always tried to follow the development of music. I’m constantly buying new music, contemporary, modern electronic, underground electronic, minimal house, clicks & cuts. All these things, you know what I mean. It’s not my fault that music always splits up in new sub-genres.
You started just recently dj’ing. This surely helps to find your way.
Oh yes, out of fun! I started this in a really small pub in Santa Barbara where I live now and which belongs to a friend. On a really, really good evening I might have had around 100 people around. On bad days not more than 10 and they were even playing pool in the back room without even listening. The good thing about dj’ing is that you listen to music very differently. I listen much more to music now, I do sort them differently. In the last few months I haven’t dj’d so much but the possibility that I could maybe do it tomorrow always makes me buy more and more records, also via internet. And most of all, I listen to these records. The volume plays a big role: when you’re dj’ing you start to realize the basses in those tracks.
How is this pub in Santa Barbara?
It’s like a small English pub. You can get there English beer, it looks like an English pub and most of all it attracts British people that live in Santa Barbara. You know, when you feel homesick and you’re longing for your country, then as a Brit abroad you love to go to a pub that looks like the ones in London or Manchester *laughs*. It’s that kind of pub.
Andy Fletcher also started dj’ing recently. He was here in Cologne…
*interrupts*…… have you been there?
Andreas Reihse from Kreidler was there. He told me about it.
Oh yeah, Kreidler. I also like dj’ing there.
He told me that it was a rather surreal situation because lots of efforts were made to keep it secret that someone from Depeche Mode is doing a dj set.
Ah yes, I see, so that no fans turn up? Yeah, it is sometimes strange to what lengths you have to go….. In Santa Barbara there is no need to keep something secret. I love the sun in California. That is really much better than the constantly grey sky and rain.
When Depeche Mode were in the studio in Hamburg for SOFAD in 1992, you also visited the Mojo Club on the Reeperbahn. Next day you were the talk of the town. It even appeared in the newspapers.
*laughs* This was similar earlier on in West-Berlin when the wall was still up. But you know why we chose cities like Hamburg or Berlin for recording? It was exotic for us. We were sitting in London, contemplating were to do our next record, someone said “Berlin” and we spontaneously thought it would be a great idea as so cool bands like Einstuerzende Neubauten lived there. Originally it was Gareth Jones with whom we wanted to work on the record, who simply proposed the city (Berlin) in which he was living at that time. He said “What about Hansa studio right next to the wall?” And we were just like “Great idea! Sounds adventurous!” It was really that we were looking for adventures and this dark Berlin with its wall and all that history sounded like adventure. We then recorded CTA in Berlin and the whole stay came across like an adventure film. So it was just consequent that we also recorded the next two records there. And this was also the time when we agreed that every new studio session for recording an album had to become an adventure. Simply because it was more fun. After that we also recorded in Spain and Italy. And Hamburg.
Exactly. And there you went to a club and everybody stared at you.
Yes, but luckily this only happens to us in Germany. This Michael-Jackson-syndrome that people are following your every move, this we only experience here. But this is not happening in the rest of the planet. I’m living now in Santa Barbara, US, at the Pacific Ocean. There I’m living a very anonymous life. There are people far more famous than me living in Santa Barbara. This is really good. Just recently I watched a special feature on tv about Michael Jackson and I can assure you that I really felt very sorry for this man. This man can’t walk anywhere on this earth without provoking massive reactions. And then the people say that he is not normal.
Did it help that you were always going around as a gang of four men?
Not only Depeche Mode but also other bands tend to live the image of an outlaw gang from a cowboy film. Suddenly beards are growing, tattoos turn up, hats are being bought….Did you feel yourself as well like a member of such a gang within Depeche?
Absolutely. We were intentionally using this image not only when touring. Also when we were simply like this hanging out the four of us, when we were going out or when we flew to the US or Europe for TV shows. Especially on the TV shows we really felt sorry for all the solo artists who were hanging around in their dressing rooms. They were always so lonely, in the best case they had a personal assistant with them. It’s really strange because now I’m experiencing this myself as I’m doing promotion for my solo album. I’m travelling alone only with my manager. I’m missing this feeling of being part of Depeche Mode. Suddenly I’m also one of those who I never wanted to be, such a lost solo artist…. I remember: these solo artists always disappeared silently from the TV studios while we as a gang were still discussing to which clubs we would still go. We were a gang and we saw us as such. This started very early with the body language and went further to alcohol consumption. Dave was still drinking back then and Alan was also still in the band. You know: in the good old cowboy films the heroes always drank the alcohol out of bottles without labels. Already in the morning. We four had this feeling of being invincible. We landed on an airport and had this feeling that with our arrival we had taken over the city. That was fantastic. This is really an amazing feeling. We went to clubs, the four of us, with our fancy dressings, for us this felt as if we were entering a saloon. And then we started drinking. We really used to have great nights in these clubs because we never felt alone despite having to get along in a for us complete unknown city. Today this is not like that anymore. Reason for this is obviously that Dave is sober nowadays and Alan left the band. A trio is simply not a quartet, no matter how you turn it. But in a certain way that’s the same in cowboy films: the gang is being reduced *laughs loud*
With other words: You and Fletch are left over. That is no gang anymore.
That’s true, but now we have a drummer, a keyboard player, background singers…..
You are telling this in such a funny way. Your singer, Dave Gahan, nearly died by living this life style when he overdosed 1996 in Los Angeles. How did this change your life and your perception of this fast life style?
That was a very difficult period for all of us. Especially, because back then we couldn’t reach Dave. I mean Dave is a difficult guy anyway. And we knew for a while that he had serious problems. But you can’t help somebody if he doesn’t want to be helped. Obviously all that made me reflect on my own life. I was really lucky that I didn’t get in such trouble with hard drugs. And that way I never overdosed and was never forced to change my life radically.
Robbie Robertson said in the film “The Last Waltz” ‘you can’t lead this life on the street forever – sooner or later it’s gonna kill you’. Nowadays Depeche Mode is a band that fills stadiums – year after year. You don’t think of retirement?
First of all: Today Dave is completely clean and sober. He’s living now in a totally different world than before - and then I do. What he’s doing is just unbelievable for me. What an incredible man! He will come out of the dark of the backstage and walk on stage, in front of him 15.000 or 150.000 people and he get’s this adrenaline kick which you simply get when you’re giving a concert in front of so many people. Believe me, although lot’s about these shows is routine - the whole surrounding never leaves you cold. Never.
Well, the show is over; Dave goes straight to the waiting car and is driven to the hotel. End of the story. He might still read a bit or he will sleep straight away. I admire him for this. I can’t do that. I still say: every world tour that I’m doing with Depeche Mode takes me 5 to 10 years of my life. It’s not a healthy life. But that’s the way it is.
dededos
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