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@gaychristianthinkboard
Pro Family?
To the people who say that they are Pro family.
You say: “The Gays” are destroying the family unit.
I am deeply ashamed to admit that a long, long time ago, I thought the same thing.
When I was 17, a really really good friend told me that she was gay. Instead of opening my arms and giving her a hug, I put my hands together and I prayed for her soul.
Till today, I do not know how she forgave me.
When I was 18, I said to my 40 year old friend, “But isn’t it a choice? I don’t hate gay people, I just don’t think its the right choice to make.”
He said, “If I had a choice, why would I choose this path? You have no idea how hard it has been.”
And we just need to look around to know that it is hard.
Now, at 27, I have friends whose parents won’t talk to them. Friends who are ashamed to talk about their gay siblings. Friends who won’t tell people they are gay because relatives might talk.
The way I see it, “The Gays” are not destroying the family unit;
You are.
When you decide that the “unconditional love” you have been given makes you more right than someone else.
When you tell your friend, “Don’t let your son wear pink, don’t let your girl wear blue, don’t let your children read about gay penguins because they might turn gay too.”
When you say to your child “Stop being ‘A Gay’, how am I supposed to face my friends.”
As though who they are is dirty and shameful. As though it is some kind of disease that you catch.
Shame… On you.
“Family, is where life begins and love never ends.”
And it is a tragedy when society stops families from being what they can and should be; a source of neverending and true unconditional love and support.
The family unit IS being destroyed.
But… Let us be honest…
By who?
***********
I wrote this piece a while ago in response to the National Library wanting to pulp children books that “didn’t promote the traditional family structure” and put it on my personal fb page. One of the books was And Tango Makes Three based on the TRUE STORY of two male penguins who hatched an egg and raised a baby penguin. If you wanna find out more about the National Library Saga, search “National Library Penguin”.
I decided to post it again and on more public platforms because I recently watched this video of a family just reacting in such a crushing manner to the boy coming out to them, and it was really… Disappointing. Sad. And disappointing. That for all the progress we have made as a human race, we still can’t respect another person’s basic right to be who they want to be.
The link to the video is here. http://youtu.be/kUx4qkCgfU8
We can do better. We must.
If you are struggling with it, I just want you to know that you are not alone. There are people on your side. If you need someone to talk to, check out this site http://www.oogachaga.com , a friend of mine told me about it. If any of you have other suggestions, please share below.
Love, hugs and sparkles,
Shunicorn
I am bisexual. i am a christian and i feel awful about it. i just find girls so attractive and i cant help it. i feel like the lord would not like me to feel this way because in the bible it says man shall not lie with man as he does with woman....... i just know this is who i am though i dont know what to do/ how to feel.....
Hello dear anon!
It sounds like you have come to terms with your bisexuality (congratulations!), and are having difficulty deciding whether or not God will bless your non-heterosexual attractions or condemn you for this desire. This topic is constantly debated among MOGAI (marginalized orientations, gender alignments, and intersex) Christians, and I implore you to read up on this debate on the Gay Christian Network (GCN) website here. On “Side A,” Justin Lee does a phenomenal job describing why he believes God blesses same-sex marriages and partnerships. Personally, I agree with Justin’s perspective and will attempt to give a brief outline of what he says in this response (yet his full response is much better and I highly recommend you read his essay!).
I am going to start by picking apart what you say here - You believe the Lord would not like you to find women attractive, because in the Bible it says “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable” (Leviticus 22).
We will start by looking at Justin’s Essay, Argument #4 - our homosexual desires are wrong “Because God Says So” or there’s a supposed ‘rule’ against it. But is there evidence for this in the Bible?Basically, Justin says: “the evidence for a rule against same-sex relationships consists of a few Bible passages where homosexual behaviors are condemned. They are used as “prooftexts” for the Traditional View. (A prooftext is a passage that is frequently quoted or referred to as a direct reference to a particular issue or theological question. Prooftexts can be useful at times, but we must be careful to read them in their proper context, or they can lead us astray.)”In your message, you cited one prooftext (Leviticus 22). Here is what Justin says about this specific prooftext; I bold and italicize for emphasis:
“In the Old Testament book of Leviticus, God gives Moses a long list of rules for the Israelites. Some of these are rules we still follow today; others we don’t. The most famous of all is in 18:22, which says, “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman” (NIV). The NIV translation follows this with, “that is detestable,” but the more famous version is the King James Version, which reads, “It is abomination.”Now before you start freaking out or thinking God hates you, please understand that “abomination” in Hebrew refers to anything forbidden for the Israelites. For instance, Leviticus 11 says that eagles are an abomination, and so are owls, storks, various types of water creatures, “and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth,” just to name a few. Locusts, by the way, aren’t abominations. Still, abomination or not, the prohibition of male-male sex is pretty straightforward. And at the beginning of the passage, God tells us why He’s giving these rules — because He wants to keep the Israelites pure and separate from the polytheistic cultures surrounding them (Lev. 18:1-4). This helps explain why the Israelites are forbidden to shave (Lev. 19:27), get tattoos (Lev. 19:28), wear clothing made of mixed fabrics (Lev. 19:19), or have sex during a woman’s period (Lev. 18:19). It also helps explain the rather strange comments about things like sacrificing children to Molech (Lev. 18:21) and eating fruit too quickly from a tree (Lev. 19:23); and why the Israelites are forbidden to have sex with a woman and her daughter (Lev. 18:17) but nothing at all is said about sex outside of marriage or having multiple sexual partners. Outside of the context of keeping the Israelites separate, it would be a very odd collection of rules.I’ve heard people quote Leviticus to forbid homosexuality and tattoos, but other than that, people generally don’t turn to Leviticus for moral guidance. There’s something very haphazard about that approach to the Bible, picking and choosing passages like side dishes at a buffet.”
Later on, Justin comments that the only reason why we are having this debate now (about same-sex relationships instead of, say, women speaking in the church), is that our culture’s standards have changed. He says: “But let’s be honest with ourselves. If we’re going to seriously be “not of this world” and follow Christ at all costs, how can we approach the Bible with a constantly changing standard, always trying to adapt it to fit our preconceived ideas? That’s exactly what the church has done for many, many years. Unless we’re going to start requiring women to wear head coverings (1 Cor. 11:3-13), we’re going to have to find a clear, consistent way of determining which passages in Scripture we’re still obligated to follow, and which ones we’re not. And it has to be a standard that we can apply in every culture and in every context, not something that lets us reinterpret things every few years to suit our desires.” Later, he continues on this subject: “When it comes right down to it, no one consistently applies Scripture passages in a literal, word-for-word, direct application to today’s problems in every case. Any honest Christian has to admit that there are at least some passages that either a) don’t apply today; b) still apply but don’t mean what they seem to mean on the surface; or c) are overruled by other passages or biblical themes.”
What it all comes down to, Justin argues, is Romans 13:8-10:“Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ 'Do not steal,’ 'Do not covet,’ and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.’ Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.”
Please, read this passage a few times. What Paul is saying here, according to Justin, is: “whatever commandment there may be can be summed up in the rule to love your neighbor. What a concept! To put it another way, Paul is saying that if we lived our lives with a truly loving spirit, acting in truly loving ways, we would automatically fulfill every one of God’s laws. We wouldn’t have any need for specific rules.” In Galatians 3:23-25, Paul says: “Before this faith [in Jesus] came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.”
So, we are free from the law, but we still must not sin. In Galatians 5:13-14, Paul says: “You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
What Justin is arguing here is “God detests sin and cannot have anything to do with it. But God also knows, in His infinite wisdom, that mere rules and regulations are not always sufficient to define what is sinful. The specifics of the situation make a huge difference… .God judges our actions on a case-by-case basis, taking into account our heart, our motives, and the specifics of the situation, not just mindlessly applying a set of rigid rules.”
So, do all things in love, because at the end of the day that is what matters.
Overall, I ask that you explore this topic on your own - through Bible readings, conversations with other MOGAI Christians, and prayer. Once you feel a strong sense of self (which it seems you’ve got!), and develop a mature reading of the Bible and relationship with your God, you will be better equipped to answer this question for yourself and pick a side on the Great Debate. Continue to ask these difficult questions, and do not hesitate to change your mind if need be!When reading the Bible and picking out certain passages to focus on, do not forget to consider the literary context, historical context, and cultural context. This will allow for a more accurate interpretation of any biblical passage. Also, always seek out multiple sources and opinions before forming your own. It took me ten years to fully accept, understand and appreciate my gray-bisexuality. I was only able to recently return to a church and develop a healthy relationship with God once I began to truly love and accept who I am and after I began to interpret the Bible and God’s word for myself (with research, many readings, and a positive outlook). My work will never be over, and I expect to be on a spiritual journey for many years to come. Although this struggle with our sexuality and our relationship with God is rather personal, private and individualized [and can feel lonely], know you are not alone in this. You do not have to grapple with this by yourself, for there are hundreds of others who can and want to be a support system for you. I hope this response has helped you out a bit. Peace & love.
What is it about the language of social justice that makes people act as though to support its use in any case means that you have to support its use in all cases?
Freddie deBoer has some good questions (via wesleyhill)
Justin Lee (2016)
The Bible says that Jesus experienced everything that a human being could experience. That means that Jesus was gay on some level at some point. I honestly believe that. Hateful Christians have just been disarmed.
This is actually a personal belief of mine, too! If nothing else, this is something I feel like he understands on a personal level.
(And if we’re being real,,,,,,, John, right?? “The one who Jesus loved” we see you boy,,,,, anyway that’s the hot tea nothing else to see here)
-mod Sarah
The Gay Debate
This clear and compelling speech made by Matthew Vines back in 2012 is still reaching new people.
I just found out that this girl who goes to church is gay and I'm so happy that I'm not the only gay one, but I only found out because I found her Tumblr I want to tell her "Hey, you're not alone. I'm like you" but without sounding weird. She's the first other gay Christian I have met irl, and I need that support when I'm struggling and I want to be there to support her too. How do I approach her about it?
If you arent comfortable doing it in person you can definitely do it on tumblr. but if you want to do it in real life, you can maybe bring up that youre feeling alone and maybe she will tell you? or say you arent the only one.
Christianity isn’t about doing good deeds and hoping God takes notice. It’s about how God took notice of us when we had nothing good to offer.
Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:10
(How you love the people around you is what matters to God, not whether you’re straight & cis)
I'm just a passerby who saw your post on calling God a she. Let me preface this by saying I'm hardly religious and am comfortable using gender neutral pronouns. However, the Bible starts with God making man in his own image. That first human was Adam, a man. Later on, Jesus is said to be God himself. Jesus was a man. I don't believe in creationism, I'm just using the Bible. That's why I find it odd that you'd think it reasonable to call God a she. Not to say you're not allowed to.
Well, alot to unbox here, yeah?
Number One: God has no gender, when God came down to be incarnated from the Virgin Mary as Jesus (the human form God took) wasn’t suppose to reflect what God “actually” looks like. God in God’s heavenly form is… formless. Meaning no gender (at least in the traditional sense of the term). That means in the creation of Adam when God makes Adam in His own image. It is less literal and more on a deeper spiritual level. As many would agree the “Old White Guy with a Long Beard on a Cloud” stereotype is obviously not accurate.
Also if you are referencing to this line “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them” the man in that sentence means mankind (confusing I know)
Number Two: Hebrew and Greek the main original languages used to in the Old Testament and New Testament respectively are gendered languages. And the gender neutral pronoun would then be He/Him. So it’s usage to our gender neutral God is not surprising.
Number Three: The Bible actually does compare God to a mother multiple times! As the Bible compares God to a father too. A.k.a the message: God is like our parent.
“As a mother comforts her child, so I will comfort you; you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.”- Isaiah 66:13
“But I have calmed and quieted my soul, like a weaned child with its mother; my soul is like the weaned child that is with me.”- Psalms 131:2
“God is like a mother eagle hovering over her young” - Deuteronomy 32:11
“God experiences the fury of a mother bear robbed of her cubs” - Hosea 13:8
“You forget the rock who begot you, unmindful of the God who gave birth to you”- Deuteronomy 32:18
Etc, etc.
Number Four: Most importantly, there is no concrete word in the Bible that says you can not refer to God with She/Her pronouns or as a mother. It doesn’t break any kind of commandment and most importantly it doesn’t bear bad fruit.
So is it reasonable? Heck yeah, if it helps the person doing so feel closer to God and more at one with themself. Can it be odd if you don’t hear it used as much. Well yes. Overall I implore you to not criticize people who do use She/Her pronouns with God as it is disrespectful and not unreasonable at all. Asking questions is great! But be sure to not come across as “higher than thou”, okay?
If anyone would like to add to this point or critique anything, please do! I tried to keep the explanations a bit simple as to not confuse the anon so there is bound to be over simplification. Overall I hope this made sense and explained why God can be in feminine forms as God can be in masculine or neither.
Pax Tecum et Bonam Noctem Anon
To add an esoteric perspective as well, in both Kabbalah and Gnostic texts, when ‘Adam’ (The Human) is created They are first a spiritual, androgynous being before becoming flesh, also called Adamas or Adam Kadmon. This is supposed to represent the Soul which, yes, was made in the image of God, who is then also implied to be genderless.
It is only after becoming flesh that Woman (‘Eve’) is taken out of Adam, as in Male and Female were once two sides of the same coin but were then separated. Not as it’s usually interpreted that first there was only man and God just fashioned a woman from his ribs. She wasn’t created as an afterthought, or assistant. She was there with Him in the beginning; both as the Child of God.
Of course this is just the ‘heretical’ interpretation, for all anyone cares. ;)
Number five, God/the Divine is not embodied. The idea of the “image” in which God made Man being physical is such a shallow understanding of what the work is trying to say. You’re talking about a being of infinite power existing in a realm beyond the physical and you’re assigning them a physical form. It’s nonsensical. The body is an allegory to help mortals relate to God. God has no body. God has no gender. God is That Which Chooses, and that is the image of God in which Man was made. Thou art God.
Just to expand a bit on the adam/first human thing, while English Bible translators have traditionally rendered Genesis 1:26 as something like “let us make man in our image” this reflects the patriarchal usage of the English word “man” meaning “mankind,” as @episcopalmystic mentions. The original Hebrew uses adam, that is, “let us make adam” which is a play on words from the Hebrew word for dirt, adamah. A more accurate English translation would be something like “let us make earth creature in our image.” Adam, the earth creature, does not have any specific gender. This is often obscured in English since “Adam” is used as a male name.
In Genesis 2 (a separate creation account from Genesis 1) Yah (YHWH) Godde makes the earth creature (adam) fall asleep (again, obscured in many English translations which say Yah made “the man” fall asleep) and forms isha (woman) from the earth creature (adam). Only after this does the text of Genesis 2 and 3 refer to ish (man) and isha (woman) as two separate entities, as @brideofourladymentions. The way these stories are translated and talked about in English can obscure this bc we have a tendency of saying “Adam” or “man” both when we mean “earth creature” and when we mean “a specifically male human.”
this string of posts makes my brain hurt but i guess that’s the point
So as of this year I’ve only just started to be at peace and come to terms with the fact I’m a lesbian and that I can actually have my faith while being gay, but my head just gets filled with doubt all the time when there is not a single Christian around me that has the same beliefs. I don’t share it with many for this reason but I already know where they stand on LGBT+. I have a very Christian teacher who is wonderful and I feel may be different about it but I’m so scared I’ll be disappointed.
My dude I feel you. I’ve actually been really lucky, before I even knew I was gay, my best friend (mod shelby) was already out to me, so I always had them to talk to. I don’t know any irl adults who are lgbt+ and christian though, and it can be really hard.
My 3 biggest suggestions (which I say on here all the time) are to
1) engage in the online community and build personal relationships with other lgbt+ christians. If you go through our #community tag, you should find links to discords and an application for a LGBT+ christian friend/accountability partner type deal. Take advantage of one or more of these options or make friends on your own! God built us to live in community with one another and you’re not weak for desiring it!
2) if you want some good affirming adult presences in your life, podcasts are really cool! I listen to the @queertheology podcast all the time and there’s another cool one called “a tiny revolution” that I also like. These are also cool ways to work your identity into your daily life and give you peace in it.
3) pray about this! Pray that that teacher will be affirming and a positive presence in your life, or that someone else will. Pray that God will bring a community of people into your life that make you feel safe and loved and affirmed.
I hope this helps! I’ll be praying for you! Remember that even if you feel alone, I love you and God loves you more than you could ever understand.
-mod sarah