The issue isn’t just the goat. It’s also the idiots who let the goat in, who decided we queer and neurodivergent people of color are subhuman. Because this isn’t a Twilight Zone episode; some stock footage and a stop motion monster isn’t going to grab the idiots and turn them into goats at a farm being prepped for curry. (As a hypothetical; I don’t eat goat and having heard one bleat at night in Kerala once while it was being prepped for the next days meal, I have no desire to try it.) we don’t know how to make sure they never get power again
@khapikat222 talked about this; hang on lemme try to find it
I should clarify; I don’t want to revoke the right to vote. That is a slippery slope and what every fascist regime does.
What I want is for the goat cultist views to become shameful. That the cultists who won’t be able to get their heads out of their asses and make amends bury those heads in the sand instead. And they keep their mouths shut when elections roll around or we bring in the crabs.
I want to feel safe again. Right now my hypervigilance is 200 percent. I’m wondering when I’ll not be seen as a person at the wrong time. And I’m privileged; 600 people without that privilege are being disappeared every day. My rep’s office still can’t answer why she said in writing that the detention facility where our governor wanted to feed people to alligators met national prison standards. The staff go “Uhhh…” when I point out Fidel Castro, the fascist she hates, did the same thing in Cuba.
We once shamed Nazis, and we sure as hell judge the white-ass Karen moms who yelled at a little black girl trying to go to school. Indiana Jones features Nazis who lose to a guy with a whip and steals from them regularly. Nearly every Holocaust movie paints Nazis as bad. Every animated show covering segregation shows the parents enabling racism as awful.
Societal shame is not an ideal solution, but it’s an alternative to violence when you can’t talk the goat out of the cultist. So we know it’s possible.
Let me go get a tooth pulled and I'll come back with some history notes on how to effectively guilt people for their political BS.
Because you @jayalaw are 10000000% valid for your fear and wants.
Shame is much like a callout post in that you have to keep it measured to be useful in changing someone's mind.
Be back in 2/3 hours maybe 4 tops with some notes.
Okay tooth did break, I am recovered with enough brain power left over to think. Thank you all for your patience.
When regarding the continuation of ALL society, and the reintegration of MAGA once Trumps regime is done and dead (because that is inescapable, these people are going to need to return to society and not get concentration camp-ed fascist style). The goal should not be to revoke their rights or ability to reintegrate themselves into society as they are now. But rather to help them see the harms they precipitated and prevent those harms from rising into authority again.
In the simplest terms: we will need a De-nazification program for MAGA and white supremacists. Frankly any supremacists seem to be the basis for the most horrific crimes against humanity that we currently know of now. . . .A De-supremacist program if you will.
Back on track,
De-nazification, was the Allies answer for Nazism as a party after Adolf Hitler's death and the victory of WW2. While the world leaders believed the public trials and sentencing of Nazi leadership would be sufficient deterrent, the practice of de-nazification was far more widespread it seeped into civilians lives as well. Leading to the collective public guilt and societal change that Germany went through after 1950. But that is not everything that occurred.
The entire process was roughly implemented in different phases: Assessing the level of guilt of a person (a quiz that was adopted by all allies called the Fragebogen), Applying the letter of the law depending on the assessment of guilt, sending the accused to their punishment, or outright death. This process was partially spearheaded by President Eisenhower, And was also limited to the "American Zone." Wherein the US legal process for prisoners was applied.
This was not a one size fits all approach to vetting, and getting though the German population of everything that had happened. Of which I think boasted roughly 75 million people? different allies in the region took on different approaches:
Germans within the Soviet Union zone for example were beaten, re-imprisoned and interned with the rest of the prison population from Nazi's in Eastern Germany to become part of the Gulag and the process of sorting prisoners therein.
Britain's Zone was far more relaxed and allowed Germans not to take the Fragebogen UNLESS the German national was seeking a career that would give them governance over other people, especially in political spheres. (Which would explain why white supremacy is rampant in the UK the same time as the US, as both nations allowed leniency for Germans who were ranked II on offense, but had skills that could be utilized).
French and Italian governments flipped the expectation and focused instead of sorting through the Teachers with Nazi memberships along with member leaders in a process they called épuration (purification).
Regardless of how the law was applied. The consensus was the greatest offenders within the military itself and those who after taking the Fragebogen were marked any less than a IV:
V. Persons Exonerated (German: Entlastete). No sanctions.
IV. Followers (German: Mitläufer). Possible restrictions on travel, employment, and political rights, plus fines.
III. Lesser Offenders (German: Minderbelastete). Placed on probation for two to three years with a list of restrictions. No internment.
II. Offenders: Activists, Militants, and Profiteers, or Incriminated Persons (German: Belastete). Subject to immediate arrest and imprisonment up to ten years, performing reparation or reconstruction work, plus a list of other restrictions.
I. Major Offenders (German: Hauptschuldige). Subject to immediate arrest, death, imprisonment with or without hard labor, plus a list of lesser sanctions.
Those people who scored as a II or I faced the harshest punishments for their participation. While people who ranked III or IV at the worst got probation with legal restrictions for a few years.
The drawback however to the Fragebogen was that a lot of Offenders who did not commit enough atrocities to justify death, But were high up in the Nazi hierarchy, were instead imprisoned or had their work heavily sanctioned, because they held a lot of skills that were necessary for helping Germany as a country recover (doctors/teachers/construction you get the jist). in an effort to perform Reparaitions, but ended up allowing fervent believers to continue to spread propaganda in secret (Trump owning Mein Kampf is no accident, he has Nazi relatives)
In addition to Nazi leader trials and quizlet style criminal processing: De-nazification also included things like: public service/propaganda posters/ads/articles detailing every life lost in concentration camps, Nazi propagandists were sentenced in Nuremburg. Citizens were conscripted into exhuming and carrying the bodies of victims from mass Graves, classes of kids as young as 7 were required to bring children to camps like Auschwitz to see what their parents or close relatives participated in, tv shows were encouraged to show Nazi's in their worst light and defeated by heroes (one of the few ways to get around the hays code but that's a different discussion), pamphlets and information guides on how to recognize an authoritarian/nazi were printed and distributed en mass.
Admonishes Americans that they will lose their country if they let fanaticism and hatred turn them into suckers. Let's forget about 'we' and
The Jewish Virtual Library and the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum both have exhaustive links and examples of all the history and efforts taken towards the four D's (Demilitarization, Denazification, Decentralization, and Democratization).
Then came the brutal linchpin that was regarded as a bad move: JCS 1067. Which while a Demilitarization direction for the US military occupation, and was intended to guide the soldiers stationed there. The local government it was nationally applied and hindered everything industrial that Germany had built up pre-war. The creator specifically over it was an asshole named Henry Morgenthau Jr, then US secretary of the Treasury. Who's main interest was wreaking the German economy to such a severe degree that -aside from the agriculture to feed the people- the country would destabilize the local market to prevent another military from rising. And it did! Most of the Morgenthau plan was interwoven into the Potsdam Agreement and by the time anyone realized it, Germany was effectively split by that wall and in economic and cultural turmoil.
Why do I bring this shit up when we're talking about MAGA and America today?
Because the level of Guilt is on a Different Scale, and the methods of communication have changed. Just outright Shaming MAGA will not work, not to the same degree of collective guilt we witnessed with Post War Germans.
As we've seen with recent clips: a lot of Influencers in right wing media are being paid to spout MAGA propaganda. Sometimes they themselves don't personally believe it, sometimes they do, but because they're like you and I, and are taking anything in a desperate bid to finance their food and shelter (often to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars). How would we go about classifying their part in this second hypothetical Nazi trial? Alex Jones and OAN are easily unrepentant, but is Tucker Carlson not also deserving of redemption, considering his recent (and personal opinion rather late) about face to Trump? What about Lindsey Gram and Mitch McConnell who were both Vocal disparages of Trump until he took office? The billionaires who financed him? the people who thought he would fix the economy and now openly express their remorse for voting him? With the pervasiveness of the internet and social media: would everyone who reblogged a MAGA post be charged with the same severity as the creator of the post? Should we judge someone based only on the selected mark on a ballot for their innocence or guilt?
Remember Trump and the GOP specifically prey upon the illiterate, uneducated, and easily emotionally volatile among the US population. and have plans to ensure the next generations of American's are just as stupid as the suckers who voted three times for Trump in a row. How can we fully fault them for a government/possibly even religious system(s?) that purposefully limited their ability to comprehend their own choices?
We face the same moral challenge as our grandparents and great grandparents who fought in WW2 did. How far does our democratic mercy go? How far is too far to the point of allowing intolerant people to continue having a say in anything at all? What mercy should we extend to those teeth that have bitten us collectively?
These are things we're going to have to consider collectively, and or government officials will have to contend with, when it comes time to judge and persecute MAGA leaders and his appointees.
And while I might be controversial to say this: For the time being, The personal answer to these issues, is simple.
Stop. Feeding. The. Trolls. Start. Feeding. The. Empath.
Stop Electing MAGA's into any official business or position of power.
Stop giving MAGA the arguments they so desperately want.
Stop hate Watching their media and block it on your devices and the devices of your relatives.
Stop Engaging with them on their politics.
Petition to removal the MAGA public officials.
Stop them from being hired if you are in a position to do so.
Stop giving MAGA's a voice to speak in day-to-day conversations.
Do drag them out to Anti-Trump rallies/ICE protests.
Do make them volunteer with you outside ICE camps to drive people to safety or clothe them on release.
Do make them volunteer for homeless shelters.
Question their beliefs and question their reasoning and do not settle for anything less than a parroted answer. Make them state their personal reasoning, not what Fox News says to think.
Make them see America beyond their tv/phone screens!!!!
Do mention the crimes committed under Trump's name.
Do mention the horrors of the American Concentration Camps,
The destruction of National Parks,
Epstein and his GLOBAL network being investigated everywhere EXCEPT in the US.
If you physically have to walk out of a conversation the moment they try to twist the narrative: Do it.
Make a point to steal the remote of their TV and turn FOX news off.
Give every indication that their propaganda isn't worth listening to or spewing.
Teachers do not allow your students to repeat MAGA language in the classrooms, Silence it as the disrespect it is. There is no political protection for an ideology that praises mass murder. Hiring Managers: check for MAGA paraphernalia in their social media, do not trust AI to do all the screening for you as most are trained by MAGA loyalists. Tech folks: Keep poisoning the AI's, Keep building filtering tools, keep finding the illegal surveillance being applied on all our technologies. Everyone who is Anti-Fascist: Keep Living. VOTE IN NOVEMBER FOR CIVIL SERVANTS, NOT BUSINESS PEOPLE, Not Retired folks, OR MAGA ALIGNED.
We may not be able to turn every MAGA away from their misty eyed reminiscing in 25-50 years from now when Trump is dead and the movement spluttered to the grave where it belongs. But we can prevent their idolatry from having any significant position of command. Over us, our family, friends, communities, or local government beyond today.
I leave this now to the words of Cambridge University writers Brian Lawlor, Sandra Baez, Hernando Santamaría-García, and Agustin Ibanez, from their Article: The Harming Power Of Shame (2025):
Culturally aware approaches can better address shame-related stigma. Reframing shame in public discourse (from stigmatising to fostering empathy and accountability) can drive prosocial behaviour and civic responsibility. Public health and education efforts that leverage shame constructively can enhance social cohesion and promote compassionate, equitable policies. Thus, an integrated approach can significantly enhance shame-related dynamics at individual and societal levels.
Not Every MAGA on the street you see is a level I Major Offender according to the Fragebogen. And I wholly agree that the one's in the administration are due for the death penalty like the Nazi's before them. But unlike Nazi's, we have the collective power to keep those people out of government offices in November and correct a wrong made by 1/3rd of our nation's population 2 years earlier than the German's could, or shame and outust the local leaders of their mayoral positions, as we've seen so often with these Data Center town halls.
Here's a guide I made to help you pick your electoral officials in the upcoming election.
Here's some helpful coping mechanisms for living in a Fascist Environment
A Masterlink Post for grassroots resistance against MAGA
And a little hopeful note that Trump's health is so bad he has not gone golfing since June 13th of this year (which is not normal for him at all :))
Thank you; also hugs and hopes for speedy tooth recovery.
My issue is with neighbors and people in Tosstmasters. Specifically, Steve.
Steve is chirpy, bright-eyed, and enthusiastic. He’s also very openly Republican and cheerful when saying things like, “being trans is a matter of opinion.” I called him out for it during a speech and in response, the current president told me, “I think you hurt Steve’s feelings.”
I’ve been skipping that toastmasters chapter for the past few years because I can’t trust anyone there having my back. When I do speak, it’s about how our governor is a fucking idiot And I don’t know how many members think like Steve. I only know two that don’t. At another chapter, I’ve been upfront that if I see more crap like that, then I’ll ghost. Just poof.
My fight response is active with Steve; he’d technically be V under that classification but he makes me feel unsafe. So I don’t know what the answer is or why people like him treat me like a Catholic priest.
Once again, khapi for the win here folks 🫡
