WHAT REALITY IS THIS Nico trying his luck by asking Lewis a question during the grid walk and LEWIS ACTUALLY TURNED AROUND (Okay it immediately failed after that but STILL. HE TURNED) cd @rosbergvet•12
Pretty much since I watched the last of the seasons Seb and Mark raced in together, I've been thinking about making this list: as much of a bite-sized view as I could manage of Seb and Mark's relationship as seen through their racing interactions. And I've finally done it.
Please don't consider this to be a comprehensive list of every encounter they've ever had on track. Rather, my hope here is that I can provide a little more context of the whole trajectory of their dynamic, including both their best-known moments and some of my favorite little details that don't get talked about enough, if at all.
So below, you'll find a list of 26 races pulled from the 120 race starts they had together. For each race, I provide their quali and race results, some context for how the race fits into the season as a whole, and a little summary on the relevance of the race for Seb/Mark. I also include my "Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating," which goes as follows:
Required Viewing: the most critical Seb/Mark lore
Worth It: good races with a lot of Seb/Mark action
For The Completionists: either the races are really boring or the Seb/Mark details are too small to be worth watching if you're only going into it for them
Don't Bother: self-explanatory. consider these races I watched so you don't have to
Once we hit 2009 when they become teammates, I also provide some overall season stats about their quali and race head-to-heads. They're bleak. Not a day goes by that Mark Webber doesn't embarrass me.
Anyway moving on—for your consideration, my Seb/Mark Race Watchlist.
2007 Season
United States Grand Prix (race 7 of 17)
Quali Results: Seb P7, Mark P9
Race Results: Mark P7, Seb P8 (.45 seconds apart)
In the context of Seb's season: It was Seb's F1 debut, subbing in for Robert Kubica who'd had a severe accident at the previous race in Canada. This was a one-off appearance, but he would replace Scott Speed in the Torro Rosso later in the season (from race 11 onward).
In the context of Mark's season: This was Mark's first season with Red Bull. He moved there expecting an acclaimed Adrian Newey car, and when the car was on it he was quick, but unfortunately he'd suffered a slew of bad luck and car failures (3 mechanical DNFs in a row for 3 different problems). He had yet to score a point.
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: For The Completionists, mostly because it's at least a decently exciting race for the McLaren battle up front.
The last several laps of this race see Mark and Seb running in a pack with Jarno Trulli, the last of the unlapped cars but trailing behind 5th place Kovalainen by 20 seconds. Mark is running in P6 but is overtaken by Trulli, and then Seb harries him for the last 10 laps or so. Unfortunately we don't see much of it (TV directors didn't know what we know…) but their proximity over the line says everything.
Japanese Grand Prix (race 15 of 17)
Quali Results: Mark P7, Seb P8
Race Results: Double DNF
In the context of Seb's season: In the US GP, Seb raced in a BMW, which was consistently in the points that season. The Torro Rosso was much slower; this was the first race where he started higher than P16, probably helped along by the fact that qualifying was run on a wet track.
In the context of Mark's season: Besides a podium in Germany – only the second of his career, 2 years after the first – things had been quite middling. It was a combination of more car problems, bad luck and bad strategy, and a healthy dose of Mark's own driving. Total, he'd scored 10 points. He would not score any more in the final races of the season.
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: Required Viewing
The race described by Mark as "the first time [he and Seb] would make love to each other on track." Like normal. So much happens in this race beyond the Seb/Mark of it all that we don't even have time to get into. Mark is seriously ill and at one point throws up in his helmet. (I think he did it with the radio on but I have no interest in looking for the audio.) They crash under safety car, and if you go into the race knowing that, it will be impossible to think about anything else each time they go under safety car. I did find it interesting to see some moments prior to their crash where Mark was, in my opinion, driving erratically under the safety car, but the conditions were so poor that everyone was struggling at points.
For the emotional impact of the crash, I also want to emphasize that Mark was running in P2 and Seb in P3 when their collision happened. Prior to the safety car, they actually had remarkable pace compared to Lewis in the lead, and they were catching him at quite a clip before the safety car bunched them up. Obviously we don't know what would have happened in the final 20 laps, but beyond losing out on potential podium finishes for both of them, I think Mark might have been able to fight for a win, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he was thinking the same. No wonder he sounded so distraught when he was interviewed immediately out of the car.
2008 Season
Although there isn't any notable on-track action between Seb and Mark in 2008, I still think it's worth briefly summarizing their season trajectories in order to set up their first year as teammates in 2009. The Torro Rosso in 2008 was essentially the 2007 Red Bull with minor modifications and a Ferrari engine shoved in. And around halfway through the season, it became clear that the Ferrari engine was far superior to Red Bull's Renault engine—the Torro Rosso just had so much more pace than the Red Bull. Seb won in Monza, and he genuinely won on pace. That Torro Rosso was just good.
Seb finished 8th in the Driver's with 35 points. Mark finished 11th with 21 points. David Coulthard, in the other Red Bull, finished 16th. It was deeply embarrassing for Red Bull.
It's also worth noting that in between the 2008 and 2009 seasons, Mark was in a severe cycling accident and came away with a broken leg. No doubt it affected his results on track, but I won't make any speculations about how much.
2009 Season
Qualifying H2H: 15-2 in Seb's favor; depending on how generous you want to be with Mark, here, I'll note that in Bahrain he didn't make it out of Q1 because he was severely impeded, and in Japan he crashed during practice and his car wasn't ready in time for quali
Race H2H: 9-8 in Mark's favor; Mark had 2 DNFs, Seb had 5 (2 mechanical)
Season Results: Seb came 2nd in the Driver's with 84 points; Mark came 4th with 69.5
Chinese Grand Prix (race 3 of 17)
Quali Results: Seb P1, Mark P3 (a little under 3 tenths between them)
Race Results: Seb P1, Mark P2 (11 seconds apart)
In the context of Seb's season: Seb had DNFed the first two races of the season. In Australia, after starting P3 he crashed out of P2 in the final laps of the race (for which he received a 10-place grid drop the next weekend). In Malaysia, he was one of several cars that spun off shortly before the red flag was waved for pouring rain. This was also the first race where a Brawn was not on pole.
In the context of Mark's season: He'd had a classic Mark Webber bad luck home race but his performance was quite alright in Malaysia. While they're in parc fermé, Martin Brundle alludes to Mark still having metal in his leg as part of a series of surgeries in the wake of his bike accident.
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: Worth It
Red Bull's first race win, Seb and Mark's first 1-2 finish (Mark's first P2 finish period), and the only grand prix not won by Jenson Button in the first 7 races. The vibes are okay between Seb and Mark post-race. Mark leans into 2 talking points both after qualifying and post-race: that he and Seb are able to push each other, and that their success this weekend is a credit to Red Bull. He also mentions really struggling with grip due to the rain in the final stint of the race, which I interpret as an attempt to justify why the gap between him and Seb is quite so large.
Spanish Grand Prix (race 5 of 17)
Quali Results: Seb P2, Mark P5 (4 tenths between them)
Race Results: Mark P3, Seb P4 (5 seconds apart)
In between China and Spain, as I noted with regards to their full season H2H, Mark was impeded in Q1 in Bahrain and started P18 while Seb started P3. Seb finished on the podium and Mark put in an alright recovery drive, finishing 11th—so their races didn't really have anything to do with each other.
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: Don't Bother. I think it's mostly important as context for Turkey.
As Mark says in the cooldown room, Seb's pit strategy gets fucked over by a much slower Felipe Massa in this race, which ultimately puts Mark ahead after the final stops. Seb either is not able to close the gap or is told not to close the gap. If he does receive team orders, we don't hear it on the broadcast, unlike at…
Turkish Grand Prix (race 7 of 17)
Quali Results: Seb P1, Mark P4 (3 tenths between them)
Race Results: Mark P2, Seb P3 (7 tenths apart)
In between Spain and Turkey, Seb crashed into the wall in Monaco under braking. Mark's race was fine.
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: Teetering between Required Viewing and just Worth It for me. But given the Multi21 of it all, dare I say that anything with these two and team orders is Required Viewing.
Seb loses the lead very quickly to Jenson, who starts with him on the front row. Seb pits earlier and intends to attempt a 3-stop while the other front runners are on 2-stops. Unfortunately, he's unable to pass the heavier-fueled Jenson after the first round of pit stops, so when he comes out after his final stop, he's behind Mark, running in P2 and P3, and he's instructed by the team to hold position. At the time, team orders were technically illegal, so the actual feedback he's given over the radio is, "Mark is faster than you." He isn't; Seb closes the gap between them very quickly but does not try to overtake.
In the post-race press conference, Seb is asked about the team orders and emphasizes that he was not instructed not to pass Mark, he was simply told that Mark was faster. He talks about how disheartening it can be to see that someone else has more pace than you in the final laps of the race.
German Grand Prix (race 9 of 17)
Quali Results: Mark P1, Seb P4 (.25 seconds between them)
Race Results: Mark P1, Seb P2 (9.2 seconds apart)
In between Turkey and Germany, Seb won in Silverstone; Mark finished 2nd, with 15 seconds between them.
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: Worth It. Obviously Seb/Mark is mostly about Mark being second-best, but in my opinion that makes things very interesting between them when Mark actually comes out on top.
Not going to say much about this one, mostly because I don't know how to be normal about Mark's first race win. He has to serve a drive-through penalty and still manages to finish nearly 10 seconds ahead of his teammate. It's just an undeniably impressive win. In the post-race press conference, Seb says that Mark earned the victory with his quali lap on Saturday and then by successfully converting the result on Sunday.
Abu Dhabi Grand Prix (race 17 of 17)
Quali Results: Seb P2, Mark P3 (1 tenth between them)
Race Results: Seb P1, Mark P2 (17.8 seconds apart)
In the context of Seb's season: Seb gained points steadily over the back half of this season and won the race in Japan. At the previous race in Brazil, he overtook Rubens Barrichello in the Driver's for P2, 15 points behind Jenson.
In the context of Mark's season: Mark looked pretty strong going into summer break; after his win in Germany, he gained enough points on Seb in Hungary to be P2 in the championship. And then for 5 races in a row, from Spa through Japan, he finished out of the points or DNFed. He won in Brazil, which was enough to keep him solidly in P4 in the Driver's standings over Lewis Hamilton.
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: For The Completionists. This race feels kind of like a TV season finale where all of the main plot lines for a season are all wrapped up so the writers use the episode to tease the next season. But that's sort of it.
Seb is on another planet in this race. He and Lewis have a solid fight at the beginning, but Lewis has to retire the car pretty early on for mechanical reasons, and after that Seb's just flying. I think the most important thing to come out of the race is Mark's recap of the full season at the post-race press conference. The first sparks of resentment are definitely there on his side.
2010 Season
Qualifying H2H: 12-7 in Seb's favor
Race H2H: 11-8 in Seb's favor; Seb had 3 DNFs (2 mechanical) and Mark had 2
Season Results: Seb won the championship with 256 points; Mark came 3rd with 242 points
Monaco Grand Prix (race 6 of 19)
Quali Results: Mark P1, Seb P3 (4 tenths between them)
Race Results: Mark P1, Seb P2; they finished having just been released by the safety car, so the gap here isn't representative
In the context of Seb's season: Seb's had a decent start to the season. He's won once and been on the podium once. Unfortunately he's had 1 mechanical DNF, but his other classified finishes saw him solidly in the points. He started on pole for 3 of the first 5 races.
In the context of Mark's season: Mark also has 1 win under his belt from Spain (finishing 24 seconds ahead of Fernando in P2 and nearly a minute ahead of Seb), as well as a 2nd place in Malaysia (which was a Red Bull 1-2). He started on the front row for 4 of the first 5 races, but besides his podiums, he's only finished 8th and 9th this season.
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: Don't Bother. If you're really curious, a highlight reel + everything in parc fermé is probably enough.
It won't come across from the timings, but Mark dominates this race. The problem is that he keeps on building an immense gap and then losing it under safety car, which is frustrating to watch and no doubt even more frustrating for Mark to endure in the car.
I'm including this race on this list for a few reasons. First, Mark takes the lead in the Driver's championship for the first time; he and Seb are tied in points, but Mark has 1 race win on him. Second is simply The Way They Are in parc fermé. This is probably the most romantic we ever see them.
Turkish Grand Prix (race 7 of 19)
Quali Results: Mark P1, Seb P3 (a little over 4 tenths apart)
Race Results: Mark P3, Seb DNF
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: Required Viewing
About two thirds of the way into the race, Mark is leading with Seb close behind in P2. Mark is attempting to go into fuel-saving mode, but Seb is very much on the attack, and he makes a move on Mark going down the straight. They collide as they near the turn, ending Seb's race. Mark loses the lead to Lewis and Jenson. The results of this race knock Seb down from 2nd to 5th in the championship standings.
British Grand Prix (race 10 of 19)
Quali Results: Seb P1, Mark P2 (1 tenth between them)
Race Results: Mark P1, Seb P7
In between Turkey and Silverstone, they both had solid points results in Canada. Seb won in Valencia while Mark DNFed (one of the freakier crashes I've watched). As a result, Seb overtook Mark in the championship 115 points to 103.
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: Required Viewing
Mark really has the measure of Seb with this one; he makes a move on him very quickly for the lead, which he's able to make stick, and then he runs away with the lead while Seb gets a puncture in the first few corners and then has to limp back to the pits for a tire change. So despite the fact that this weekend is all about Seb being given Mark's front wing in quali and, "Not bad for a number two driver," most of the grand prix sees them driving two completely different races. Mark is desperate to keep Lewis behind him for the lead, and a safety car gives Seb the opportunity to make serious gains from the back of the grid. Still, Mark overtakes Seb in the championship again.
Obviously every point matters in a title fight, but this result is also interesting to me as far as the full season is concerned—if Seb had finished 10th or lower, Fernando would have won the championship.
Hungarian Grand Prix (race 12 of 19)
Quali Results: Seb P1, Mark P2 (4 tenths between them)
Race Results: Mark P1, Seb P3
In between Silverstone and Hungary, they both drove an alright race at Hockenheim but that weekend was about different teammate drama ("Fernando is faster than you").
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: Worth It. I found this one quite exciting in general, lots of good fighting amongst Mark, Seb, and Fernando.
Mark loses position to Fernando almost immediately and then spends the first several laps of the race fighting with him while Seb runs away in the lead. The safety car comes out late enough that most cars pit, but Mark elects to keep track position. This works out in his favor when Seb also receives a drive-through penalty for leaving more than 10 car lengths between himself and the safety car. He's able to make up quite a lot of time but when he catches Fernando, they just end up slowing each other down in their battle for P2, giving Mark the win. Mark ultimately crosses the line 17 seconds ahead of Fernando. The vibes in the cooldown room and on the podium are weird; Seb still doesn't understand quite why he's been penalized and he's very intent to clear it up with Mark.
After this weekend, Mark has won 4 races in 2010; Seb, Fernando, Lewis, and Jenson have won 2 each.
Japanese Grand Prix (race 16 of 19)
Quali Results: Seb P1, Mark P2 (less than 1 tenth between them)
Race Results: Seb P1, Mark P2 (9 tenths apart)
In between Hungary and Japan, Seb had a particularly bad race at Spa (finishing P15), but otherwise he and Mark both had a decent run of results. At Singapore, Seb fought Fernando for the win right up to the line, finishing less than 3 tenths behind him while Mark was 30 seconds adrift in P3.
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: For The Completionists, mostly because I found the race overall to be quite boring.
Seb pretty summarily has the lead for this whole race, and Mark can match him alright but can't pass him. In Aussie Grit, he says that he was instructed to hold position, although if he was, I don't recall them playing a radio about it on the broadcast. It's possible he was told not to race Seb very hard even before the grand prix. This was the first race where I noticed a trend of Mark nabbing the fastest lap when Seb is winning.
Brazilian Grand Prix (race 18 of 19)
Quali Results: Seb P2, Mark P3 (1 tenth apart)
Race Results: Seb P1, Mark P2 (4 seconds apart)
In between Japan and Brazil, there was a double Red Bull DNF in South Korea. Mark spun out when he lost grip on the wet track, and Seb had to retire because of an engine failure. As a result of Mark's DNF, Fernando gained the championship lead. Fernando, Mark, and Seb went into Brazil with 231 points, 220 points, and 210 points respectively.
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: Required Viewing
The question hanging over this entire race is whether Red Bull will attempt to enforce team orders to enhance Mark's championship chances. They do not and Mark drives angry about it. Red Bull wins the constructor's at this race, but you wouldn't know it from the awkward cooldown vibes.
Again, there's a question of whether Mark was told to hold back that comes up in Aussie Grit. He says that he was told partway through the race to turn his engine down because of a water pressure issue. He believed that this was a genuine instruction and that he would have actually been in danger of a car failure if he raced Seb full-out, providing the justification that he had a a good relationship with their Renault engineers and that he didn't believe they would willfully sabotage him.
Abu Dhabi Grand Prix (race 19 of 19)
Quali Results: Seb P1, Mark P5 (5 tenths apart)
Race Results: Seb P1, Mark P8
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: Worth It
I'm not calling this one required viewing mostly because this is just relevant to Seb/Mark for the overall championship fight and for how much Mark is actually a non-issue in Seb's winning the title in Abu Dhabi. Mark and Fernando spend the entire race fighting with each other, falling far enough back that they don't even meaningfully encounter Seb on track.
In Aussie Grit, Mark recounts that he went to Seb's driver's room for 20 minutes after this race. It was very important to him to be a good sport.
2011 Season
Qualifying H2H: 15-5 in Seb's favor
Race H2H: 16-4 in Seb's favor; they each had 1 DNF (Seb's was mechanical)
Season Results: Seb won the championship with 392 points; Mark came 3rd with 258 points
British Grand Prix (race 9 of 19)
Quali Results: Mark P1, Seb P2 (less than 1 tenth between them)
Race Results: Seb P2, Mark P3 (4 tenths apart)
In the context of Seb's season: Seb's 2011 season was immensely dominant, particularly in the first half. He won 6 of the 8 races before Silverstone and finished 2nd in the other 2. Going into Silverstone, He had 186 points and a nearly 80-point lead on the 2nd place man, Jenson, in the Driver's championship.
In the context of Mark's season: Mark's season up to this point honestly looked plenty strong except that Seb's season had been so exceptional. Aside from a 5th place finish in Australia – literally no home race curse is as bad as Australia – he's finished no lower than P4 and he's been on the podium 4 times. In amongst these races and completely outside of the context of Seb/Mark, I would not be doing my due diligence if I didn't encourage you to watch China 2011 to see him do one of my favorite recovery drives. 💜
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: Required Viewing
This is the race that actually inspired me to make this whole list—because I really emphatically want to make the case that it needs to be more of a talking point to contextualize how their relationship goes bad.
Mark ignores team orders. He ignores several calls from the pits telling him to stay behind Seb. In Aussie Grit, he describes how, "I kept pushing for a while before ultimately holding station as instructed." I am largely trying not to editorialize here, but I'll say that I can't help feeling skeptical of Mark's intent to "hold station" given that he finished so close behind.
That said, he also notes that Seb was quite understanding afterward: "to his credit, Seb said we were simply racing and he saw nothing wrong with that."
So.
Let's just put that in our back pocket for now. 🙂
Korean Grand Prix (race 16 of 19)
Quali Results: Seb P2, Mark P4 (4 tenths between them)
Race Results: Seb P1, Mark P3
In between Silverstone and Korea, Seb won 3 out of 6 races and was on the podium for 2 more; in Japan, the race prior to Korea, Seb clinched the Driver's championship. Again, Mark put in respectable results and finished 5th or higher at every race except for Monza, where he spun out on his way back to the pits after a collision with Massa at the first chicane.
Seb/Mark Watchlist Ranking: For The Completionists; separate from the Seb/Mark of it all, allow me to say that this is a great one to watch for Lewis's racecraft (even if he is using it to keep Mark behind…)
I've mostly included this race because they won the constructor's here. This is the last time Mark actually finishes a race where they win the championship, as he has car failures at both COTA in 2012 and India in 2013. Perhaps unsurprisingly, given the vibes at Brazil in 2010, this is also the only race where Seb and Mark celebrate with a formation lap. I feel. Normal about it!
Brazilian Grand Prix (race 19 of 19)
Quali Results: Seb P1, Mark P2 (a little under 2 tenths between them)
Race Results: Mark P1, Seb P2 (17 seconds apart)
In between Korea and Brazil, Seb wins in India and suffers a car failure in Abu Dhabi. Mark continues to have the world's okayest season.
Seb/Mark Watchlist Ranking: Required Viewing
This race is Mark's only win of the 2011 season, and here's the thing: I think it rings hollow for him. Because Seb has a fine start and is running in the lead until he has some car problems, and while not terminal, they prove to be enough of an issue that Seb lets Mark through. Mark doesn't actually get to fight Seb for the win. He doesn't actually beat him. Brundle and Crofty are baffled in the commentary afterward when they see how subdued Mark looks compared to many of his other wins, but I think it's pretty clear that this is why.
It also to some degree explains the other interesting thing about this race, which is how Mark handles a question in the post-race press conference about whether he'll be able to give Seb "a bit of a harder time" in 2012. I don't have a clip of his full answer, but I do have their body language; Seb who smiles because he does want Mark to bring the fight to him, and Mark who crumples because he knows how difficult that will be.
2012 Season
Qualifying H2H: 12-8 in Seb's favor
Race H2H: 13-6 in Seb's favor; including 1 double DNF, Seb had 2 DNFs (both mechanical) and Mark had 3 (1 mechanical)
Season Results: Seb won the championship with 281 points; Mark came in 6th with 179 points
Italian Grand Prix (race 13 of 20)
Quali Results: Seb P6, Mark P11
Race Results: Double DNF
In the context of Seb's season: Seb's 2012 had been a mixed bag up to this point, particularly compared to his absolute dominance in 2011. Going into Monza, he only has 1 win under his belt. He overtook Mark for 2nd in the Driver's championship behind Fernando at the previous race at Spa, but he's 24 points adrift.
In the context of Mark's season: Mark actually has 2 wins this season to Seb's 1 – the final 2 wins of his career – but these wins also mark his only 2 appearances on the podium out of 12 races, so his overall results are less impressive. He and Seb are arguably as closely matched as they are for points because Seb had to retire the car out of the lead in Valencia.
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: Don't Bother
This season was very sparse with Seb/Mark on-track action because simply put, they were generally running in different races; even when Mark qualified next to or ahead of Seb, he was starting to deal with pretty severe start problems that meant Seb was fighting for podiums while Mark was just fighting to climb back up the points. I've included this race on the list because it's a notable example of the sort of interaction we could expect to see from them at this point—if they cross paths due to offset pit strategies. It hangs over the race and the commentary that they might not be as respectful with each other on track as teammates ought to be.
Korean Grand Prix (race 16 of 20)
Quali Results: Mark P1, Seb P2 (about half a tenth between them)
Race Results: Seb P1, Mark P2 (8 seconds apart)
In between Monza and Korea, Seb had won both races. Following his Monza DNF, he was trailing Fernando by 39 points. Going into Korea, he'd closed that gap to only 4 points. Mark… well. Mark sure had driven some races. (He went from P7 to P11 in Singapore and P2 to P9 in Japan. Let's not talk about it.)
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: Worth It
Mark loses the lead to Seb in turn 1 and is never really able to fight to take it back. Particularly notable for the Seb/Mark of it all: on the one hand, Seb continues to push to the end of the race despite being told by his engineer repeatedly to drive more cautiously due to some tire degradation issues. On the other hand, Mark is hungry and hunting behind him, once again stealing fastest lap on the second to last lap of the race.
Brazilian Grand Prix (race 20 of 20)
Quali Results: Mark P3, Seb P4 (about 2 tenths between them)
Race Results: Mark P4, Seb P6
In between Korea and Brazil, Seb finished on the podium in all 3 races, including at Abu Dhabi, where he started from the pit lane. He went into Brazil with 10 points on Fernando. Mark continued to embarrass me.
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: For The Completionists as far as Seb/Mark goes, but like. it's a great race so have fun and give it a watch anyway!
It would be remiss of me to ignore this race because it was a big deal to Seb. Specifically, at the start of the race, Mark makes a move toward Seb which Seb interpreted as an attempt to squeeze him and sabotage his start to help Fernando through. Honestly, I rewatched the start several times with that in mind and I don't see it, but it will Matter come Malaysia 2013.
2013 Season
Qualifying H2H: 17-2 in Seb's favor
Race H2H: 18-1 in Seb's favor; Seb had 1 mechanical DNF, and Mark had 4 DNFs (2 mechanical)
Season Results: Seb won the championship with 397 points; Mark finished 3rd with 199 points
Malaysian Grand Prix (race 2 of 19)
Quali Results: Seb P1, Mark P5 (a little over 2 and a half seconds between them)
Race Results: Seb P1, Mark P2 (4 seconds apart)
In Australia the race before, the Red Bulls shared the front row to start and both lost places, ultimately finishing P3 and P6. (Do I even need to specify who finished where?)
It's actually a little eerie to me how comparable Malaysia 2013 is to Turkey 2009—Seb is incidentally screwed over by strategy, and Mark ends up ahead of him. They tell Seb to hold position, quite possibly because they're concerned about how well Mark's tires are going to hold up when there are 2 Mercedes drivers not too far behind. (Although Mercedes has also instructed Nico Rosberg to stay behind the slower Lewis Hamilton! Their likelihood of catching the Red Bulls seems minimal.) But unlike in Turkey in 2009, Seb ignores the instruction and makes a move on Mark anyway. It's some of the best racing I think I've ever seen Mark do. It's not enough.
Mark fumes about it in the cooldown room and on the podium, but in the context of everything above, I hope I've gotten across that he sort of brought it upon himself. This is not to say, "Seb did nothing wrong uwu," but Mark cultivated an environment where they ignored team orders "because it's just racing." He and Seb together cultivated an environment where they don't trust each other and assume the worst of each other.
Italian Grand Prix (race 12 of 19)
Quali Results: Seb P1, Mark P2 (2 tenths between them)
Race Results: Seb P1, Mark P3
In between Malaysia and Monza, Seb finished 4th or higher in every race except for Silverstone, which was his only DNF of the season. After Spa, Seb was 46 points clear of Fernando in the Driver's championship. Mark's season was… fine. He finished in the points in every race except China, where he DNFed, but he was consistently having bad starts and having to fight back up the grid instead of being able to fight for wins.
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: For The Completionists
I've included this race because it's one of my favorite post-Multi21 cooldown rooms and podiums. Adrian Newey goes up as Red Bull's team representative, and it's so clear that he in particular feels an obligation to keep the peace between Seb and Mark and not play favorites.
Japanese Grand Prix (race 15 of 19)
Quali Results: Mark P1, Seb P2 (1 tenth between them)
Race Results: Seb P1, Mark P2 (7 seconds apart)
In between Monza and Japan, Seb won twice from pole, reaching 4 race wins in a row. Mark DNFed twice. Moving on.
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: Worth It
Realistically, I think this race is the last time Mark has a proper shot at a win. Red Bull splits the team strategy to guarantee that at least one of their drivers finishes ahead of Romain Grosjean, and it's genuinely up in the air which one is going to work. In true Mark fashion, he takes the fastest lap since he can't beat Seb.
Abu Dhabi Grand Prix (race 17 of 19)
Quali Results: Mark P1, Seb P2 (1 tenth between them)
Race Results: Seb P1, Mark P2 (30 seconds apart)
In between Japan and Abu Dhabi, Seb won the Driver's championship and Red Bull won the constructor's in India. Mark DNFed.
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: Don't Bother
Mark's final pole position. He loses the lead to Seb in the very first turn and never even has a sniff at taking it back. Unfortunately for him, Fernando gets the fastest lap.
United States Grand Prix (race 18 of 19)
Quali Results: Seb P1, Mark P2 (1 tenth between them)
Race Results: Seb P1, Mark P3
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: For The Completionists
I hesitated about whether to include this race BUT!! I decided this is my post and I do what I want and by this point in the list most people probably aren't reading anyway, so welcome to my conspiracy corner. Going into this race, Seb has 7 consecutive wins, tying Michael Schumacher for the record. All he needs to do is win this race, and he'll set a new record. Red Bull loves to break a record.
Seb has a very good start from pole and gets away well. Mark loses P2 to Grosjean. And then he spends half the race being told by the pit wall to wait behind Grosjean for the right moment to attack, killing his tires in the process. By the time he's instructed to make a move, all of his pace advantage from his tire offset is gone and they finish with Grosjean about 6 seconds behind Seb and 2 seconds ahead of Mark.
Am I suggesting ☝️ the team used Grosjean as a buffer to protect Seb's win streak, because they knew that if Mark got ahead of Grosjean he'd have no incentive to follow team orders and stay behind Seb?
Maybe so.
Brazilian Grand Prix (race 19 of 19)
Quali Results: Seb P1, Mark P4 (1.1 seconds between them)
Race Results: Seb P1, Mark P2 (10 seconds apart)
Seb/Mark Watchlist Rating: Required Viewing
Brazil 2013 my Roman empire!!!! Things are undoubtedly awkward between them during the cooldown and the podium but they're also both clearly feeling weirdly sentimental and not sure what to do about it. Seb ignores the procedure of the race winner getting the first podium interview and wants Mark to do it instead. They both fumble over how to talk about what they mean to each other. It's disgusting and it's beautiful.
You guys comparing every rivalry to Brocedes makes me wonder if you guys understand brocedes at all.
Lewis, who was borderline poor, came from this English city and had a dream of becoming the best despite this.
And Nico, who came from money, his father won that championship, and he was chasing after it too. He lived in Monaco, surrounded by the richest people, and the sport.
Lewis, who knew that every weekend could be his last in karts, because he had co compete against kids like Nico, rich, white and surrounded by Formula 1. Always the exception.
Nico, who was bullied because he looked like a girl, and was just SO lonely.
Lewis and Nico, who became friends for theor shared passion, and loneliness. Coming from the most different background.
Keke Rosberg had to buy a whole karting team to make sure that Lewis and Nico were teammates.
Anthony Hamilton who told Lewis to beware, that Keke bought the team, so his son could be favoured.
Nico who got to Formula 1 to prove he wasn't just his father's son, he was more, his own person. Lewis who was the first ever black man to get to Formula 1.
Nico and Lewis who were teammates again at Mercedes, who promised Niki Lauda that they would go along and that they could handle it.
But they just couldn't, with Nico having to prove he wasn't just daddies money, always in the shadow of Keke, and now of Lewis, a world champion in his second year in F1, and Lewis having to prove it wasn't just the car, that he wasn't a one hit wonder.
Still everything happened, they weren't friends anymore, Nico could only eat Frosties before their last race, cereal they ate together when they were kids. Lewis couldn't stop talking about how everything had changed, they didn't eat pizza together anymore, they barely talked. And how Nico had went and got married.
Nico's first podium had seen Lewis at the top, and Nico's last podium had too seen lewis at the top. Just how much had changed in 8 years.
First podium
Last podium
All this to say, that Brocedes is just so particular and different from other rivalries. Because both of them had something to prove.
Lando and Oscar aren't like this, they weren't that different when they were kids. They were barely friends as is.
Kimi and George definitely aren't this. They don't have the history, don't have the pettiness or craziness or childhood lore that Nico and Lewis had.
Lando isn't all like Seb, he doesn't think of himself as a peacemaker, as also the wrong doer. Who says mean stuff about Lewis and Nico, all those clips I'm sure you have seen. Lando isn't PR trained, something like that would never happen today.
Also Kimi and George, and Lando and Oscar really aren't like Sebmark either. Mark being so close to retirement, just chasing that WDC, his childhood dream. Being there for the start of a team, suffering when he got bad results because he knew that RedBull would be good at some point.
Got paired up with this kid, who got favourite because he was younger, who was faster. Who sent Mark crazy. Because he was just that protected by the team, even if it was his fault.
Kid who sent Mark into retirement, without his championship.
But also Sebastian, who wanted to be friends wtih Mark but met this man who hated him, because he was just better.
The sport hated Sebastian because he was good. Sebastian in 2013 won so much he got F1 stats to go down in views.
I understand that Lando is hated, but he can never get this lever. And Oscar isnt all like Mark either, it isn’t over for him yet. But it was for Mark.
I am mentally ill and love their rivalries, and hate when people comprare them.
titsay
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