Interview: Sassmouth + Jarvi [chicago]
Sam Kern, aka Sassmouth, has been at the forefront of the Chicago scene for years. She’s a resident at Smart Bar, and in 2013 was inducted as a resident into San Fran’s As You Like It production group. Not to mention the launch of her own label god particle. Jarvi hails from Metro Detroit and got into DJing vinyl early. Now she’s extremely active as a Chicago DJ, holding influence as a Junior Resident at Smart Bar in addition to being a member of Chicago's Naughty Bad Fun Collective. Caught up with them at the female-oriented 2015 edition of Communikey in Boulder, Colorado.
How did you get into making dance music and what were you influenced by?
Sam: Geographically, I really got into dance music in Chicago, where you could listen to amazing house music pretty much any night of the week. A lot of times I was working on the weekends, and I was lucky enough to see house music during the week – and a lot of the underground people went out then too. It was a really incredible scene and you could see artists like Derrick Carter and Green Velvet play on a Monday night. And at the same time I was constantly going to Detroit. People began to think that I lived there. I was always just an active person in the scene there, and felt so fortunate to live so close to Detroit so I could experience a party scene that was different from Chicago. When I started in Chicago everything was based in the clubs and in the bars; due to the RAVE act things had been pushed out of the underground. But in Detroit, the underground was thriving. There were a lot of warehouse spaces and lofts; a lot of my friends were living in interesting spaces and throwing parties there. In a way, it was through being exposed to Detroit techno and those experiences that I began hearing more music that I fell in love with, like the minimal Berlin sound. l loved that delicate trippy music and started to explore that more. I always have found ways to connect and bridge different sounds--I’m not as interested in a streamlined sound, but rather, I want to make an eclectic thing cohesive, and that’s still what I do today. When I can play longer sets, too, I can definitely do that.
Jarvi, how did you get into DJing with vinyl?
Jarvi: I started playing with vinyl mostly because that’s what I was surrounded by. The people I looked up to and the people around me were doing that. It just made sense to me. In Chicago, there are just a lot of old school house people [who DJ with vinyl]. I was fortunate to learn this way; it’s definitely a nice way to get into DJing. It’s like you are learning the tricky way to do it first. At least that’s what people have told me. At first I was intimidated by CDJ’s - they seemed complicated to me. I haven’t really used one before. Also, between 2003 and 2010 when I was being exposed to the Detroit techno scene there were, at the time, a lot of people using digital releases. If I had started DJing then I probably would have been using CDJs.
Sam, what about you? Were you always attracted to DJing with vinyl?
Sam: I started out with records mostly because I just loved them, and I loved the physicality of it. I made the switch to using Serato in 2005, and I was one of the first people among my friends to use it in Chicago, which I was getting a lot of flak for at first – lots of my friends were working for record label distributors. It was exciting at first (this was also when Beatport first started) but over time it got to the point where there was so much content on Beatport constantly…I was having a hard time keeping up. And then it clicked for me: I realized it’s not about keeping up; it’s not about finding the newest track that no one has yet. It’s about asking myself - how do I take all these beautiful tracks from five, ten, or twenty years ago and mix them with what’s current, to make something completely new. When I’d hear these old and new things mixed together, I’d think--that’s what I need to do and focus on. At that point I stopped using Beatport and online services, and I started going to record stores again. I started digging again, and I felt renewed and revived. My love and passion for it just came flowing back.
I feel like Detroit and Chicago are sister cities. Is that a vital connection that is still active? Despite Chicago generally defining itself through house and Detroit defining itself through techno, is there a lot of overlap?
Sam: Absolutely. I hate genres and subgenres; they can be so limiting. People describe me as a tech house DJ sometimes or as one or the other [techno or house]. And sometimes, when two people are listening to the same song, one might say it sounds like house and someone else may say it sounds like techno. It’s such a subjective experience. Because those two are so deeply connected and related to each other and vice versa. As far as the two cities are concerned, of course there are things that are classic Chicago house and certain acid lines that seem to define the sound, but the two cities are always influencing each other. There’s a deep respect for both cities, and a lot of support and communication. We invite a lot of Detroit artists to come and play with us on my label.
Jarvi: I don’t think one city or sound is better than the other, but I also don’t think they could be around without each other. I grew up going to parties in Detroit. I’d go to parties in crazy spaces that were super random, and I haven’t really experienced that kind of thing in Chicago yet (I’ve only been in Chicago 3 and a half years though). It seems like that culture died out a bit. To me, the Chicago scene definitely feels like a family, and Detroit seems to be about intentionally showcasing the best artists. It is the birthplace of techno, after all. Detroit is crazy because you can see Mike Huckaby at the Works and there will be like 40 people there, but if that show were in Europe, it’d be nuts. I was just there last month and there is so much happening: new places and people doing events in bars and new spaces, whereas Chicago does parties in clubs primarily. Detroit allows you to be a little more free. Movement [Festival] couldn’t happen in Chicago. There would be so many permits. In Detroit it doesn’t matter if it’s a coffee shop a or bar or a dry cleaners. There could be a party happening there.
Sam: It also has to with the economics of the two cities. They both started out economically strong and in Detroit, that changed. There’s this mode of survival in Detroit that gives it an edge. It feels like a tough nut to crack at first but then once you get to know people, they are so warm and lovely. It ends up being about the people there. Here, [in Boulder, CO] things are well kept and things are pristine – in Detroit you are going absolutely for the people. That’s part of the Midwest identity in general. It’s about the people. We will be returning to Detroit this year for Movement; this will be our fourth year there. We are doing a party called Industry Brunch. It’s at a place called Tangent Gallery. They’ve had their issues with the city but now they have a legal liquor license, which is great. It follows the after party No Way Back, and we have fresh fruit and bloody marys and it’s just a good time.
How do you relate the music as dancers? Even though you are the ones playing music, what’s your relationship to dance?
Sam: For me, it’s basically just as important as the music. I’ve been dancing since I was able to stand up, and I took ballet and then my body began to change. I realized I wasn’t cut out for that kind of dance. I’ve always had a desire to dance and a love for dancing. I’m always a little weirded-out by DJs who just hang out in the booth during the night when they aren’t DJing, instead of being out on the dance floor connected. I’ve been known to pop out on the dance floor and I have to be lured back into the DJ booth. Sometimes I’d rather be dancing – it’s that zen moment of just being connected with the music. I don’t get into the art of dancing in the way some people do. For a long time that was a big part of the scene and it’s not so much any more. When I used to go to Smart Bar years ago, there would be a proper dance circle. Smart Bar started as a mostly African American dance club in the early 80’s, but over the years it’s shifted.
As someone that’s really into house dance, I’m curious about that. Do you see much of that happening in Chicago anymore?
Sam: It’s fading out. And those spaces are becoming less African American. Those spaces for them to feel free and dance aren’t as prevalent anymore and it’s just changed the dynamic. But there’s the whole south side of the city too that’s African American and celebrates the tradition. I went to the Boiler Room for the Frankie knuckles tribute, and sort of assumed no one would be dancing, but because it was Frankie Knuckles’ tribute people were really getting down. It was a full on sweaty dance-a-thon because these people were gathering together who have been listening to him for 30 years. So there’s definitely still that element and culture.
Jarvi: As far as dance culture is concerned, it also depends on the kind of music that’s popular. For some people, the deeper stuff isn’t necessarily conducive to getting down and getting sweaty. The popularity of the genres rotates. And dance is still a thriving part of the city; there’s a Juke fest in Chicago – it’s in a random spot but it’s awesome. But then again, some people might not even realize Juke is a genre or a thing.
I feel that there’s a symbiotic relationship between the DJ and the dancer. How do you connect to that?
Jarvi: Oh yeah, you have to watch the crowd. In terms of the dance music fueling the culture, you need that energy of people moving around. And sometimes when there are just a few people moving around, it’s difficult. If you aren’t watching the crowd, you are just playing tracks. Sometimes I’ll throw something weird out there and I may not get a good response. Even if I want to go there and get weird, you have to be able to read the crowd and respond to them.
Sam: People always ask me what I’m going to play tonight, and I’m like, “Well, I don’t know.” And I won’t know until I get there and feel the vibe and see how people are reacting during the set.
“J: One time I was at a guitar center and the employee asked me what I’d be using a certain piece of gear for, and I said I’d be making techno. He replied, “you are the only woman I’ve met that would want to do that – usually they just want to make house.”
How do you feel about being a female in the scene?
Jarvi: One thing I really enjoy about being a female in the scene is, to me, it seems like people are actually more likely to pay you a compliment, because they want to show that they appreciate what you are doing. I find that people care. They can be very gentle. I’ve had people go out of their way to let me know that I did something for them. Even if you are playing crazy hard techno. I think there are issues of course with not being appreciated as well, but [in my experience] it’s a been a little more inviting.
Sam : I have gotten to know so many different women over the years that are involved in the scene, and I feel very fortunate to have them in my life. We can just vent about these challenges we face, that maybe a guy friend who DJs wouldn’t get. I find that sometimes male DJs have a hard time stepping out of their own experience to understand what it’s like – it’s about stopping and listening to what other people’s experiences are, and thinking about how we can change negative experiences in the scene so they don’t happen to other people.
Jarvi: We should put that on blast too – the internet helps with creating awareness among women and men. Things aren’t always talked about a lot. It’s intimidating to try to be a female DJ in the scene, and to put yourself out there.
Sam: It’s not my nature to push myself aggressively towards everyone else. I’m not sure whether that’s how I was raised as a woman or just who I am, but sometimes we are made to believe it’s necessary in an environment of testosterone-fueled self-promotion. I’ve always tried to fight that by approaching it from the perspective of building a community and a culture from the ground up. Sure, it means maybe I didn’t rise to the top. And I’m sure there’s a lot of women who’ve felt that way – because if you do promote yourself [as a woman] you run the risk of coming across as pushy, or as a bitch.
Jarvi: And you don’t want to be hyper-sexualized either. Sometimes the only option is to play a cheesy event [that markets itself in a hyper-sexualized way]. Now that I’m doing stuff with Smart Bar I can be a little more relaxed about what I want to do. But before that, I had propositions to do parties that promoted an all-female “sexy” lineup which morally isn’t what I’m about. It’s one aspect of being a female DJ that kind of sucks, because there’s a lot of talented women that may not get exposure if they don’t play into that game.
I grew up listening to a lot of punk and hardcore, and I found that scene to be very male-dominated as well. There seems to be some crossover...
Jarvi: The DIY punk scene is a really good way to describe how it is with the electronic scene. It’s notoriously been a boy’s club – and that’s how techno is too. Yes the Riot Girl movement happened but at the end of the day – at least from what I’ve experienced in Chicago and Michigan -- the dudes in the scene have the mentality of “yea we run this.” But it’s definitely changing. There are more and more women I’m learning about that are doing these really hard techno sets in Japan and Berlin and places that at one point seemed to be so exclusively male. In relation to this, one time I was at a guitar center and the employee asked me what I’d be using a certain piece of gear for, and I said I’d be making techno. He replied, “you are the only woman I’ve met that would want to do that – usually they just want to make house.”
Let’s talk about Communikey - the festival that’s happening this weekend. Paula Temple, Erika, Experimental Housewife - it’s almost an entirely female lineup. What do you think?
Jarvi: This is my first year. It’s nuts. I see this lineup and I just think about all of the people who say “there just aren’t enough women to book.” Look at this. there are more women on this lineup than there are men! But I’m not just looking at in this way – it’s more that I’m seeing these artists who are all doing what they do really well, and they happen to be women. and they are all respected in their own right, they’ve all flown all over the world and done stuff. This is a pretty perfect example of how those points are not even true or relevant. It’s like an old wive’s tale that there are no good female DJs. But if you actually look, at this lineup for example, there are.
Sam: This brings us back to this issue of visibility. I feel like people who are really taking the time to create and curate festivals -- it’s their responsibility to make a conscious effort to make women more visible. And to make this more accessible to people so that they see that it’s possible. Tonight is a perfect example of that, and it’s great because it’s not being marketed as an “all female lineup.” It’s this idea that women have been doing things. Women will always be doing things. I’m sure there will be young women tonight who are absolutely inspired and young men, too. It’s just about looking to the future and making these small changes.
Jarvi: It’s also about being gender neutral. Keeping in mind artists like Rrose and DJ Sprinkles. it’s unnecessary to say “all female lineup.” There’s a younger generation that’s a lot more informed and not focusing on traditions of the past. The younger people that are becoming in charge – they have a much different mentality than the promoters 20 years ago did. The internet helps of course.
Sam: In line with what Jarvi’s saying, the gay scene is not so segregated and separated anymore – it’s becoming normal, like people are finally accepting that it’s a part of life – it’s such an important change in our culture that’ happening. About fucking time. I’ve noticed a huge difference since I was an angry teenager and saw a lot of homophobia. Fifteen years later it’s so much more comfortable and accepted.
S: [Music] can build a community and a culture. But it’s also just a mirror or a reflection – all of the same problems that you are trying to escape by entering into a scene and community are still there, and those issues need to be worked out. There’s this paradox: in some ways we are trying to escape reality, but there is also this spirited alternative vibe that exists as a positive thing through which people can connect.
What do you think of dance music as a social movement? Can it be a method through which we can evolve?
Sam: In some ways, it is, because it can build a community and a culture. But it’s also just a mirror or a reflection – all of the same problems that you are trying to escape by entering into this scene and community are still there, and those issues need to be worked out. There’s this paradox because in some ways we are trying to escape reality, but there is also this spirited alternative vibe that exists as a positive thing through which people can connect.
Jarvi: As big as it is, and as it continues to grow, I think the really lovely thing about it is that there are so many people who are actually becoming full-time artists. It’s becoming realistic to get paid to be an artist. I don’t know many people in my parents generation that were able to do cool jobs like this – festival culture allows creative people to do what they love for a living. There are so many groups of people that I wouldn’t have expected to curate a festival and now the things they do are so vast and ridiculous and incredible. Americans have a hard time understanding that clubbing can be a normal thing. It’s so normal in other countries to just go out and have a good time – now that that it’s becoming more normal here, it’s proving that going to a club can be a good thing. Americans have this idea that you can only be a twenty something or younger to be in a club scene. That’s what’s really great about the coming generation – it creates a lot less problems when rave culture is more accepted by people of all ages. Detroit is awesome in that way – it’s different than other festivals where there’s this specific demographic. In Detroit, I’ve seen three-year-olds with their parents and then an 80-year old grandma. That’s why I like our Industry Brunch parties too--it shows the aspects of rave culture that prove it’s not about just being in a sweaty basement. Things are definitely changing. It’s a safe, inviting space where people can be open -- free to be themselves.
Sam: We are definitely cultivating a long-term perspective.