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@justasussybitch
God I love Lucemond. They are both second sons. They are complete opposites. They are the same. Aemond is obsessed with Luke. Luke is afraid of Aemond. They start the war that destroys their house. A part of Aemond canonically dies with Luke. They parallel so many other pairings/couples. They practically unknowingly wed in the traditions of their house. They are soulmates in the most deranged and toxic and doomed way. Itās all subtext but also so in your face you canāt ignore it. And itās absolutely 100% unintentional. I feel so insane about them. God I love Lucemond.
What do you envision would have happened if Luke stayed sunken in his depression?
hmm, not good things but thatās pretty obvious I suppose haha
He probably would start refusing to eat, which at first Aemond would be patronizing about & then annoyed by then eventually it would freak him the fuck out. he probably would be able to get him to eat eventually, through finally learning how to properly leverage ākindnessā or through punishmentāeither something painful enough Luke would eat to avoid it (though that of course risks Luke switching to a more active method of suicide), or the classic of threatening to kill random innocents. still, that would be a temporary solution.
the only hope Aemond would have at that point is getting his hands on something that would give Luke a reason to want to live. a purpose. like, say, maybe a younger brother or twoā¦
imagination (1963) - harold ordway rugg
"chekhovs cat / schrƶdingers razor / occams gun"
Chekov's Cat: if you see a cat in the first act, it will probably be relevant later. (example: Alien)
Shrodinger's razor: an unopened box may or may not contain the solution to the story; there's no way to know without opening it. (example: Monk)
Occam's gun: the simplest way to kill off a character is to shoot them. (example: Bambi)
i have been cracking up at this for the past 3 minutes
Chekov's Box: If there is a container introduced in the opening act, it will be opened later.
Schrodinger's Gun: Treat every gun as if it's loaded unless you've checked it yourself.
Occam's Cat: If you hear strange noises at night, it's probably a cat.
I Want To Live (Life and Death)
the unique suffering of wanting to write fucked up dead dove do not eat fic for a fandom that is just. very wholesome. like where am i meant to put my 10000 words of non-con. between the fluffy found family & the coffee shop au????
Picturing LFL au where Luke did manage to escape with Shiera that day. Imagining Luke offering to inter Aemond on driftmark rather then have him killed.
Everyone thinking itās some weird guilt thing or a devotion to the seven he mustāve found in captivity (obviously no one knows the extent and assumes most rumours spread by mushroom are obviously false (side note George making the drunken lecher having more truths versus the oh so pious Septon Eustace is something I can 100% see)).
Luke just enjoys having the say of whatever Aemond eats or wears. The fact that heās the only person who can decide if the terror of the riverlands lives or dies is something he probably thinks of whenever heās having some trouble with sexual intimacy ( though no one would know about the extent to his occasional internal struggles with his past not even Rhaena). anytime he remembers his abuse thatās only been shared with (maybe Rhaena??) ,Jace or Daemon (who would have a bit more of an idea of war time practices in Westeros) he remembers that he has Aemond in his hands not the other way around.
Balancing never seeming weak again and being this loving brother/son/heir that once came so easy to him. Then him and Rhaena having her six daughters like canon (for Rhaena) and him making the eldest heir like he fought for but always in the back of his mind that men are not safe from other men in war time but especially not women. Just whole other bucket of trauma for him to deal with. Especially after he started praying to primarily female deity figures during his own s/a and captivity.
Probably spoilers if anyone has ever read my own fic but I quite enjoy Luke claiming Cannibal trope (now a trope, at the time I started publishing my fic in October 2022 there was crumbs to eat but thankfully weāre feasting now as lucemonders!!). Arrax being this pearlescent dragon who was swift and growing every year symbolising Luke himself growing from this unsure boy into someday maybe someone more sure of himself then claiming cannibal a dragon rumoured to be strange enough to devour its own kind, pitch black and monsterously older than the Iron throne itself. Just a very silly and lazy way for me to bring this visual of loss of innocence tho I defend myself in my mind that GRRM probs wanted Arrax to evoke that when he made him Pearl white with golden chest to die when he was 13 along with Luke.
Not even getting into the fun interactions with Aemond. Maybe Luke is still keeping this love act up for some fucked reason in his head and has Aemond convinced heās alive out of love. Or if history changes yet again and Aemond has the injuries of Rooks Rest instead of Aegon (like the rumours his dick broke) after the war kicks off later, how Luke would manipulate his way into topping him (the thing heāll think will ācure himā of his nightmares and traumas. Not how that works bookie but I understand even being raised by a polycule in this time would not save him from the patriarchys nonsense lol)
Even better him visiting winterfell with Jace and stumbling upon his brother and Cregan and watching their interactions (Cregans fucking Jaceās ācuntā and still sees him as a man??? Talks about loving Jaceās cock despite being the āmanā in their relationship) just completely breaking apart his ideas of what heās internalised m/m relationships being.
I wouldnāt change a thing of LFLEFE of course, itās perfection. itās always fun to read someoneās work and wonder of the āwhat ifsā (which is what I do between chapters of fanfiction too as youāve seen from my delirious asks before lol) and how the characters would shift and change when the butterflies wings change to a different direction.
At that point in the story Aemond has already planted this cruelty in Luke (not in general, we see him freely empathise with people even when not knowing them like the servants entering the chambers after shieras death) that Luke has to foster against Aemond in his mind to survive the ordeal. Itās a coping mechanism for him that allows him to continue the charade. The satisfaction of tricking Aemond is probably what kept him alive through much of the uncertainty.
A scene of the new show Mary & George where the main character who usually tops bottoming with his enemy after (falsely) professing love just to fuck with his mind and get one final āIām the one who won here. Go fuck yourselfā literally gave me this vibe and I donāt know where it could possible fit in this āauā lol. Luke taking back his own asshole in a way idk thatās so silly hahah
Luke taking his own feelings of self loathing and low self esteem and sharpening them into a weapon to use against Aemond? Art, chefs kiss!
Sorry this got so long I was inbetween tasks and kept forgetting how long it was š¤£
some very mild spoilers for the themes/arcs i have planned for the series
Are there any circumstances under which efelfl!Aemond would forcibly kiss Luke?
hmmm, maybe! Aemondās trauma means it would be unlikely ā Luke forcibly kissing Aemond would be more likely tbh ā but maybe if Luke ādangled itā over his head too long or suddenly started to refuse to kiss him or broke his in-love act very harshly & Aemond began to drown in his internal dissonance. though, maybe the fact that Aemond hasnāt kissed Luke since Luke ran indicates that a part of him does now know itās all an act. which in turn indicates that, yeah, he canāt bring himself to initiate a kiss that isnāt ārealā. or receive a kiss that isn't 'real' for that matter.
if he did do it Aemond would immediately regret it though. but whatās new. self-sabotage is basically the core of Aemondās character in this fic
I can't stop thinking about their wedding, it's not for nothing that Aemond is so fixated on this, when he's away from Luke, he's probably choosing a wedding outfit for them in his head and kicking his legs.
oh 100%. heās got a pinterest board & everything
I was reading all the feminised language Aemond tends to use towards Luke in their sex scenes in efelfl and thinking how lucky Luke is that theyāre not in an ABO universe, because Aemond so would have tried to baby trap him by now.
ngl, this did make me go & look up the forced pregnancy tag on ao3
The update was so worth the wait!!! Any HotD fic you post, trust I will be eagerly waiting with my knife and fork out!
thank you!!! i hope you find any future hotd fics delicious
please help me- i used to be pretty smart but iām having so much trouble grasping the concept of diegetic vs non-diegetic bdsm!
gfkjldghfd okay first of all I'm sorry for the confusion, if you're not finding anything on the phrase it's because I made it up and absolutely nobody but me ever uses it, but I haven't found a better way to express what I'm trying to say so I keep using it. but now you've given me an excuse to ramble on about some shit that is only relevant to me and my deeply inefficient way of talking and by god I'm going to take it.
SO. the way diegetic and non-diegetic are normally used is to talk about music and sound design in movies/tv shows. in case you aren't familiar with that concept, here's a rundown:
diegetic sound is sound that happens within the world of the movie/show and can be acknowledged by the characters, like a song playing on the stereo during a driving scene, or sung on stage in Phantom of the Opera. it's also most other sounds that happen in a movie, like the sounds of traffic in a city scene, or a thunderclap, or a marching band passing by. or one of the three stock horse sounds they use in every movie with a horse in it even though horses don't really vocalize much in real life, but that's beside the point, the horse is supposed to be actually making that noise within the movie's world and the characters can hear it whinnying.
non-diegetic sound is any sound that doesn't exist in the world of the movie/show and can't be perceived by the characters. this includes things like laugh tracks and most soundtrack music. when Duel of Fates plays in Star Wars during the lightsaber fight for dramatic effect, that's non-diegetic. it exists to the audience, but the characters don't know their fight is being backed by sick ass music and, sadly, can't hear it.
the lines can get blurry between the two, you've probably seen the film trope where the clearly non-diegetic music in the title sequence fades out to the same music, now diegetic and playing from the character's car stereo. and then there are things like Phantom of the Opera as mentioned above, where the soundtrack is also part of the plot, but Phantom of the Opera does also have segments of non-diegetic music: the Phantom probably does not have an entire orchestra and some guy with an electric guitar hiding down in his sewer just waiting for someone to break into song, but both of those show up in the songs they sing down there.
now, on to how I apply this to bdsm in fiction.
if I'm referring to diegetic bdsm what I mean is that the bdsm is acknowledged for what it is in-world. the characters themselves are roleplaying whatever scenarios their scenes involve and are operating with knowledge of real life rules/safety practices. if there's cnc depicted, it will be apparent at some point, usually right away, that both characters actually are fully consenting and it's all just a planned scene, and you'll often see on-screen negotiation and aftercare, and elements of the story may involve the kink community wherever the characters are. Love and Leashes is a great example of this, 50 Shades and Bonding are terrible examples of this, but they all feature characters that know they're doing bdsm and are intentional about it.
if I'm talking about non-diegetic bdsm, I'm referring to a story that portrays certain kinks without the direct acknowledgement that the characters are doing bdsm. this would be something like Captive Prince, or Phantom of the Opera again, or the vast majority of bodice ripper type stories where an innocent woman is kidnapped by a pirate king or something and totally doesn't want to be ravished but then it turns out he's so cool and sexy and good at ravishing that she decides she's into it and becomes his pirate consort or whatever it is that happens at the end of those books. the characters don't know they're playing out a cnc or D/s fantasy, and in-universe it's often straight up noncon or dubcon rather than cnc at all. the thing about entirely non-diegetic bdsm is that it's almost always Problematic⢠in some way if you're not willing to meet the story where it's at, but as long as you're not judging it by the standards of diegetic bdsm, it's just providing the reader the same thing that a partner in a scene would: the illusion of whatever risk or taboo floats your boat, sometimes to extremes that can't be replicated in real life due to safety, practicality, physics, the law, vampires not being real, etc. it's consensual by default because it's already pretend; the characters are vehicles for the story and not actually people who can be hurt, and the reader chose to pick up the book and is aware that nothing in it is real, so it's all good.
this difference is where people tend to get hung up in the discourse, from what I've observed. which is why I started using this phrasing, because I think it's very crucial to be able to differentiate which one you're talking about if you try to have a conversation with someone about the portrayal of bdsm in media. it would also, frankly, be useful for tagging, because sometimes when you're in the mood for non-diegetic bodice ripper shit you'd call the police over in real life, it can get really annoying to read paragraphs of negotiation and check-ins that break the illusion of the scene and so on, and the opposite can be jarring too.
it's very possible to blur these together the same way Phantom of the Opera blurs its diegetic and non-diegetic music as well. this leaves you even more open to being misunderstood by people reading in bad faith, but it can also be really fun to play with. @not-poignant writes fantastic fanfic, novels, and original serials on ao3 that pull this off really well, if you're okay with some dark shit in your fiction I would highly recommend their work. some of it does get really fucking dark in places though, just like. be advised. read the tags and all that.
but yeah, spontaneous writer plug aside, that's what I mean.
Wow I like those words ashgfkjvmgk
Would you mind if I used them?
(have been using bdsm(canonical) and bdsm(material) instead as in this narrative acknowledges bdsm as something happening in the story vs this is not bdsm in universe but it is bdsm related and just like, stuff to feed your fantasies, rules and morals do not apply because nobody is trying to portray real situations, these narratives are shallow as they are merely tools.) But I guess both the descriptions have slight differences.
oh yeah go nuts lol, it's just the best way I could come up with to phrase it, I don't own the words or anything
Watsonian BDSM vs Doylist BDSM
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Work in Progress Wednesday
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second scene of a a/b/o rhaelicent fic i've been working on for ages, tentatively titled green with envy. hopefully now that LFLEFE is done i can finish & post it before moving back to lucemond
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I can kind of see Luke taking his āpowerā as far as he can. Like getting to the point where heās asking Aemond to bottom for him. Whether Aemond would ever get to that place remains to be seen (youāve said one of the things primary to this Aemond is we canāt get into his mind). I picture Luke probably coming as soon as in that position due to his āheās nothing without meā line of thought we have seen this chapter (Iāve summarised that terribly you wrote it way more compelling but I canāt fit Lukeās state of mind into a 4 word sentence Iāll leave that to the professionals (you!)).
If he got to the point where heās got Aemond to the point in his fake love routine to open up his ācuntā willingly, it would probably be his greatest achievement in his now fucked up mind lol.
Knowing how Jealous Aemond was of Sel I can see him thinking well Luke doesnāt need pussy heās got mine. Because again, heās delusional !
Unfortunately luke coming from the power trip would probably convince Aemond he has crazy throw back power and rules Luke with his ass and dick and I donāt want that for him haha. Picturing Lukeās reaction to Aemond thinking HES the one being manipulated with sex is hilarious though šš.
This is probably so duh but I think Luke has really been conditioned to see sex=power which is obviously a symptom of his abuse. How heād go about having healthy sexual relationships in the future (even with women!) puzzles me. I donāt know if you read the fic nobody, nothing, nowhere by hypothesistest but it also plays the abuse quite straight too and focuses on the impact it has on Luke and is one of my favourite fics on the subject matter with how it explores how the abuse affected Luke long after it was over and in what ways his abuse reared itās head (which I can see in your excerpt you posted today!) during his everyday life and his attempts at intimacy. Iām really looking forward to the sequel for this reason and it will NOT be a skip for me! I love your Luke for who is not his bussy!!
If Luke did ever make it back to his family how do you think he would go back to being Rhaenaās bethrothed or Rhaenyraās āgood boyā. Especially if Jacegan is canon in your views. One brother experiencing the joys of bottoming with the man he swore a blood oath to up north after building a relationship through hunting and drinking and friendship versus the other experiencing it as this shameful reaction from his body that makes him unworthy and had brought so much pain on a physical and psychological level!
The irony of Jace going to a secluded castle during war time and being the one with the healthy sexual experience versus Luke going from an argument with his uncle
Just Luke whump all around!
I havenāt read this fic since December?? I think but you being back has got me on theories galore! Please let me know if you donāt like this kind of in depth q&aās for your fics and Iāll stop no harm done! Iām just usually question question question about character dynamics!
Thank you very much for listening to my delusions I just like your work a lot haha
some more, slightly more spoiler-y stuff
"heās nothing without me" summarises it pretty well. Aemond tried to make himself the centre of Luke's life & in the process made Luke the centre of his, oops. Luke didn't ask to be part of this dynamic, but if they're going to be stuck in each other's gravity he's certainly going to use it to whatever advantage he can. which definitely means making power plays via fucking (as you point out, this whole thing has taught him power=sex, which already is an idea pretty present in Westeros). i may have to break out the switch! tags for Hand for Hand.
('may'. i already have a pretty strong (ha) idea for how bottom!Aemond is going to make it's appearance in the plot)
i hadn't read the fic nobody, nothing, nowhere by hypothesistest, but thank you for the rec because i went & devoured it today. really great psychological stuff. based on it, i don't think you'll be disappointed by what i have planned for Tooth for Tooth. strangely, the lucemond dynamics in nobody, nothing, nowehere -- the only one able to understand what the other has been through -- feels like the cousin to the darker, more fucked up lucemond dynamics i have planned for hand for hand. nobody, nothing, nowhere did actually manage to make me regret for a second not writing a more wholesomely co-dependent lucemond. for a very loose definition of wholesome. because them getting to heal together was an amazing ending to read. unfortunately, the Aemond in lflfefe isn't a fellow victim but the abuser (Aegon, meanwhile, has two for two going on the rapist front). i do plan for Rhaena to have a small part in Tooth for Tooth, and a larger part in Hand for Hand. i won't say more, except to thank you for the reminder that fleshing out some non-Luke relationships might be worthwhile. i mean, personally, i think Luke should be the centre of all relationships -- romantic, platonic, familial -- but apparently having everything be in relation to just one character can make it hard to 'flesh out themes' or 'build the narrative' smh. (side tangent, but i read the Locked Tomb series this year & that had fucking amazing side character/relationship work, so definitely something i want to practice!) you make a good point that jacegan could have some very juicy parallels. thank you for the ask(s)! it's amazing having someone care this much about the character dynamics in something i wrote. fanfic as a medium has very different rules & conventions to, say, novel as a medium, but for me, even as i'm being self-indulgent, LFLEFE (& Deuteronomy 19-21) is a place where i'm cutting my teeth in regards to character work, relationship dynamics, plotting, etc. and also just finishing a piece of writing (even if it takes years). so it's very validating to have someone analyse & theorise like this! based on the ask(s) i think there's quite a few things you'll enjoy if i stick to my current outline ;)
Wow I really have no idea how things could go based off your spoilers which I think is a due to your writing talents and my being a dumb bitch (but Iām usually really good at connecting dots!)
Tooth for tooth: maybe Luke does successfully escape (heās in the riverlands with what I imagine is the traditional look and maybe moves with an army??) or maybe heās just under guards and one tried to take liberties?? The No Aemond tag has perplexed me but Iām hoping for some black family bonding. Hoping he sees his mother again and can speak to her before we leave your both tragic and hopeful (lolāheās alive isnāt he???) world. Iām nervous though esp for my bbygrl nyra. Sheās usually a head on a platter by fics end š„² (but maybe this is switcharoo!! ~delusion~)
Hand for hand: throw me out with the bath water maybe Aemonds now captive??? But Iām not sure if Luke would go to Aemond if his family could find out considering the shame he feels. Hoping for maybe war stuff but the smut has me stumped and Iām ignoring the most logical answer (Aemond has him again). I feel like that one picture of Charlie day from always Sunny in front of a cork board trying to solve this because I was a chapter 15 escape truther!
See these assumptions are based off if these are equal length fics!! Hand for hand could be a 5 shot for all I know hahahha
But dude lost 3 fingers and an eye and I know your description/tags at one point (not sure if it still does) has a line about how some people only get some of what they deserve and considering how other of your fics ended im kind of hoping (delusionally) for a somewhat hopeful ending (in Lukeās POV ā boy probably considers him and Aemond dead a win for him :( )
Thanks for the the spoilers! Made my day š (probably not Lukeās thoāOR is he actually in a āgoodā place in your excerpt?? At least in Lukeās mind lmao)
very slight spoiler-y stuff
i'm delighted you're thinking so much about what's to come for Luke. in a lot of places you're close to the outline ;)
right now, for Tooth for Tooth i'm aiming for just four chapters, though they'll be on the longer side. Hand for Hand is definitely the lengthier of the two in terms of what i have planned.
Luke is in a better place than he has been in a while. but that bar is kind of six foot under.
i'm like 90% sure you're the same anon you sent the next ask as well, so i'll continue my answer there (if you're not, my apologies and thank you for the ask! i definitely think there's some things you'll enjoy if i stick to my current outline)
Any crumbs/spoilers/scene leaks for lflefe sequel?? I promise to forget about them by next week and completely erase them from my mind by the time the sequel comes out. You can trust me I was a scout š«”š«”š
well, i mean, if you were a scout spoilers ahead