I'm a Master's student in Finland. I study linguistics and Karelian language and culture. I've studied White Sea, Olonets, and Tver Karelian (vienan-, livvin- da tverinkarjala). This blog will be a source of information about the Karelian language in English. I'll also include English translations of Karelian texts. Please feel free to contact me with any questions, comments, or requests. However, I'm currently working on my MA thesis (Compound Words in Livvi Karelian Newspapers), so I can't guarantee how quickly I’ll respond. But I'll do what I can!
Missä sie opiskelet miekin haluun! Mietin nuita kieli karttoja että tuntuu vähän omalta kantilta hömelöltä vetää tarkkoja rajoja (mihin ne tarkat rajat perustuu?) Kun mun mummit tulee uudelta kirkolta ja sortavalasta ja heidän puheensa vilisi livvinkarjalaa kotona neljän seinän sisällä, vai onko kannaksella puhuttu murteita?
Opiskelen Itä-Suomen yliopistossa Joensuussa. Täällä on karjalan kielen ja kulttuurin sivu- sekä aineopinnot. Täällä myös kansalaisopistossa opetetaan joskus karjalaa. Sitä opetetaan myös jonkinvertaisesti helsingin yliopistossa, mut tietääkseni ei yhtä syvästi kuin täällä. Varmasti siellä ja Oulussakin sitä opetetaan kansalaisopistossa mut en oo varmaa, ja voi olla et eräissä muissa kaupungeissa on tilaisuuksia.Joo noi murteet (viena, suvi ja livvi) on itte päämurteita. Niillä alueilla on paikallisiakin murteita, eli on kyllä livvinkarjalan paikallisia murteita, joita siun mummit varmasti puhui. Kielitieteilijät piirtää tarkkoja rajat vaan sen takii et muuten ei voi piirtää karttaa ollenkaan eli noi kartat on suosituksii eikä lakeja. Kun kieli itse on semmone spectrum, on murteita, joita on vaikeaa päättää onkse vienaa tai suvea, suvea tai livviä? Samoin kuin tsekkiä ja slovakkia pidetään eri kielinä, mut kun siirrytään itä-slovakista länsi-tsekkiin, jokainen alue voi ymmärtää naapureita ilman välejä. Kun kieli- tai murreraja pitää piirtää, yleensä päätös on perustettu alueiden politiikalla tai kansojen omaidentiteetilla. Esim jos kansa luulee itseään livviläiseksi, eikä oo vahvoja kielitieteellisiä (tai muiden alojen) syitä riidellä sitä vastaan, se lasketaan livviläiseksi kansaksi, vaikka ois myös syitä sanoa et se on suvikarjalainen
I was wondering, what "karelians" would count as proper separate karelian languages and which are Karelian-influences dialects of Finnish? (karjalanmurteet)? Or are they all just Karelian?
When you use the word karjalanmurteet, you have to already know if you’re talking about the Finnish language or the Karelian language. When discussing the Karelian language, “karjalanmurteet” refers to the dialects of the Karelian language (Viena, South, Livvi and Tver). When discussing the Finnish language, “karjalanmurteet” refers to certain eastern dialects of Finnish, specifically those spoken in the municipal regions of North and South Karelia. So-called “karelian” dialects of Finnish are not necessarily dialects of Finnish that have been influenced by the Karelian language. The name refers instead to the geographical area where the dialects are spoken.
This maps shows a little bit of the difference: https://www.kotus.fi/files/3179/karjalat-kartta.JPG
The blue and purple regions (Etelä and Pohjois-karjalan murteet) are regions where dialects of Finnish are spoken. These dialects are referred to as Karelian dialects, but they are, in fact, dialects of the Finnish language.
The other colors represent Karjalan kielen murteet, or dialects of the Karelian language.
This can be confusing, especially since there is a lot of overlap between where Karelian is spoken and where so-called “karelian” dialects of Finnish are spoken. Dialects along the boarder between Karelian speaking and Finnish speaking areas can intermix in a way that makes it hard to tell which language the person is speaking. The intermixing is also usually due to the fact that the person’s mother tongue or most frequently used language is Finnish, so that influences their own personal way of speaking. However 99% of the time, it’s extremely clear if someone’s using the Karelian language or a karelian dialect of Finnish.
From a more cultural perspective, quite a lot of Finns to this day are under the impression that the Karelian language doesn’t actually exist, but is instead just a dialect of Finnish. This is not true and is due to propaganda spread by the Finnish government during and after World War 2. Unfortunately the modern Finnish government has done little to undo the damage it caused during that time, and the misinformation prevails. In Russia, there’s essentially no question about what is Finnish and what is Karelian both linguistically and culturally, because there haven’t been decades of propaganda claiming that they’re the same.
Records of the Karelian people’s distinctness from Finnish people based on language, traditions, beliefs, values, cultural identity, etc go back into the early 1000s CE.
Hopefully this answered your question? If you know any Finnish or are a Finn, try reading some Karelian, perhaps this newspaper: http://omamua.ru/. You’re sure to understand a lot of it, but lot of it may also seem foreign to you.
Or, especially for people who don’t speak Finnish, you can look at the Yle news in Karelian: https://yle.fi/uutiset/18-44136. These articles are translations from Finnish articles, and a link to the Finnish article is almost always found at the end, so it should be easy to open them side-by-side and compare.
Going off of the ask I received about the northern dialects of Karelian, I thought I’d share a bit more information about the dialectography of Karelian.
I’ve studied both Viena Karelian and Livvi Karelian for a year each. I’ve also taken a two-week intensive course on Tver Karelian and next week I’ll start a two-week intensive course on Lude (lyydin kieli), which Russian scholars tend to consider a dialect of Karelian (mostly for political, rather than linguistic, reasons). I’ve also taken a course on Karelian dialects in general (their common and contrasting characteristics, their geographical spread, history, etc). Unfortunately I haven’t been able to study South Karelian outside of the dialects course.
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The Karelian language is made up of two main dialects: Karelian Proper and Livvi Karelian. Karelian Proper is further split into two main sub-dialects: Viena Karelian and South Karelian.
There are a number of different terms to refer to these dialects. Viena Karelian is known in English also as North Karelian and White Sea Karelian. Livvi Karelian is known also as Aunus Karelian and Olonets Karelian (sometimes Olonec Karelian). In Finnish, Livvi Karelian is known as livvinkarjala and aunuksenkarjala. In Livvi Karelian itself, Livvi Karelian is known as livvinkarjal as well as anuksenkarjal.
In my posts, I choose to use the words closest to the word used in the language itself. Therefore, I will say Viena, South, Livvi, and Tver Karelian.
Below is a map of the Karelian dialects from Karjalan kielen sanakirja “The dictionary of the Karelian language”: http://kaino.kotus.fi/kks/kkskartta.html
The link gives more information on how to interpret the map, but in general, blue county names show where Viena Karelian is spoken, red (orange? brown?) county names is where South Karelian is spoken, and green is where Livvi is spoken. Tihvinä, Valdai, and Tver Karelian are all related to South Karelian; however, they have been separated from the original dialect since the 1600s and have extremely different characteristics. Essentially, they’re their own dialects. The few unnamed counties near Petroskoi (Petrozavodsk) is where Lude is spoken.
I personally prefer the following map, even though it has less information and lacks Tver Karelian:
Of course, brown is Viena Karelian, green South Karelian, yellow Livvi and pink Lude. The horizontal lines in the green and yellow represent the “Boarder Karelian” dialects, essentially dialects of Karelian that have a lot of influence from Finnish (mostly Savo dialects).
Karelian is spoken outside of its native area throughout Russia (e.g. the Tver dialects) and throughout Finland. This has to do with boarder politics, a topic for another post. Tver is the biggest island community in Russia, Helsinki and Oulu house the biggest island communities in Finland. Here’s a map:
You may ask yourself: Why do the first two maps make it seem like Karelian is only spoken in Russia? The dialect areas in the first two maps end harshly at the Finnish boarder, but in the third map, there’s a large red area in Finland connected to them.
The answer to that question lies in the different language policies of Finland and Russia during the two world wars. Finland’s policy was essentially “There’s no such thing as a Karelian, they’re just Finns who talk funny”, whereas Russia had no incentive to pretend like Karelians don’t exist (instead it was more of a “whatever you are, be Russian or die” tactic). As a result of these two assimilation tactics, Karelian populations are dwindling. Finland’s tactics were (arguably) more successful, so a lot of research focuses on the Russian side of the boarder. This is actually a very important topic, but one that will have to wait for its own post.
The dialects of Karelian (not including Tver) don’t differ much in terms of grammar (sentence structure, noun declensions, verb conjugations, etc.), but they differ mainly in their sounds (phonologically) and in their lexicon. Tver and other nearby dialects differ in all ways from other dialects.
Unfortunately I’ll have to end this post here. Expect a post detailing the differences between the dialects at some distant point in the future. My plan is to first talk more in depth about Livvi and then use that as a point of comparison to explain the other dialects (at my university in Finland, Karelian is taught using Finnish as a point of comparison, but that doesn’t work for an English speaking audience). However, in the future if you have questions about other dialects than Livvi, feel free to contact me and ask!
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Another important mention: I realize I’m not citing sources for anything I’ve said up til now. I realize that’s bad form, and I plan to go back and add sources at a later date (another reason why I didn’t go into explaining the history and politics of the Karelian dialects in this post is that those topics require citations far more than just verb conjugations and such). For now feel free to challenge me on anything and request a citation.
I also plan to compile a master post of Karelian materials (dictionaries, textbooks, newspapers, etc). I’ve already posted the link to a textbook for Viena Karelian, so there will be more to come. Unfortunately none of these will be in English, hence the existence of this blog, but they may still be of some use
Hi! I really appreciate your posts on livvi karelian. You said if we had any requests/suggestions we should message you and you also said you've studied (a bit of?) other dialects so I was wondering if you could at some point if you have the time, energy and interest to do so share some of hour knowledge on the northern dialects? Or if you know any learning resources for them could you share them? Thank you and sorry about bothering you with this.
Hi! Thanks so much for your question. I’ve spent a year studying Viena (White Sea) Karelian, the northernmost dialect. My professor actually published an online beginner’s textbook at this link:
It’s really nice because it has audio to go along with it.
My posts have focused on Livvi because at the moment my thesis topic is on Livvi, I’m working with a professor on a project concerning Livvi, I’m part of a translation seminar working with Livvi, and it was the most recent dialect I’ve studied, so I’ve got Livvi on the brain lol. I’m definitely planning on writing posts about the other dialects in the future, but at any point feel free to contact me with any questions about them!
This post discusses vowel harmony and diphthongs/triphthongs found in Karelian
Vowel harmony is a phenomenon found in many different languages, both in the Uralic language family (e.g. Finnish and Hungarian) and outside of it (e.g. Turkish). If you already know about Finnish vowel harmony, congrats, Livvi Karelian vowels work (almost) the exact same way!
In languages with vowel harmony, vowels are separated into different classes which determine which vowels any given word can contain. If vowel harmony is a new concept to you, this video discusses a number of languages that have vowel harmony, as well as how it works in Finnish: https://youtu.be/fA_slID7tEY. If you still don’t get it, don’t stress! It’s such a common feature of the language, you’ll catch on in no time, probably without even noticing it.
In Karelian, vowels are split between front and back vowels. Front and back refers to the position of your tongue when producing the sound. However, you don’t have to be a linguist to master this. The front vowels in Karelian are “y, ö, and ä” while the back vowels are “u, o, and a”. With the exception of loan words and compound words, words in Karelian may only contain either front vowels or back vowels. If an ending is applied to a word (more on this in a later post), the vowels in that ending change to match the frontness or backness of the other vowels in the word.
“e and i“ can exist in any word. However, if they are the only vowels in a word, any endings applied to the word will take front vowels. Therefore, they are usually referred to by Karelian grammars as front vowels.
Let’s see a few examples:
Juomine (stem: juomise-) “drink” (noun) -- this word contains back vowels and the vowels “i and e”. This makes it a back vowel word. The partitive ending -tu/-ty will then take its back vowel form: juomistu.
Syömine (stem: syömise-) “food” -- this word contains front vowels and the vowels “i and e”. This makes it a front vowel word. The partitive ending -tu/ty will then take its front vowel form: syömisty
Using the “we” ending for verbs -mmo/mmö: astummo “we walk” vs näimmö “we see”
A word that only contains “i and e”: kiireh “hurry” (noun) vs kiirehty “hurry” (partitive case)
Using the essive case for nouns (to be discussed in a later post) -nnu/nny: Erähänny päivänny pienenny lapsennu “One day as a small child...”
In Livvi Karelian, clitics, or little particles that attach to the end of a word, do not change to match vowel harmony like they do in Finnish (as well as northern dialects of Karelian). These include:
-go, the interrogative particle:
Oletgo? “Are you?” vs. Näitgo? “Do you see?”
-häi, the emphasis particle:
Sehäi on hyvä “It [really] is good” vs. Opastujathäi ollah hyvät “The teachers [really] are good”
-päi, attached to certain locative cases to clarify their meaning (more on this later):
Lähten Petroskoilpäi “I’m leaving [from] Petrozavodsk” vs. Lähten kylyspäi “I’m leaving [from] the sauna”
Diphthongs are the combination of two vowels within the same syllable. Try saying the words “eye”, “how”, and “boy”. How many vowels do they have? (hint: two). How many syllables do they have? (hint: one) Karelian contains a boat load of diphthongs and a bunch of triphthongs (syllables which contain three vowels). In fact, it is impossible for a Karelian word to have two or more vowels next to each other without them belonging to the same syllable.
An example of vowels that are next to each other, but not part of the same syllable, can be found in the English word “aortic”. Phonologically speaking, this word contains three syllables and two diphthongs: [ei.our.tik].
Look at the following Livvi Karelian words and think about how many syllables they might have if they were part of your own native language. (a “.” is used to separate syllables):
oi.gei “right”
oi.gie.du “right” (partitive case)
kač.čuo “to watch”
piäs.tiä “to pass, get to, get into”
ma.guau “he/she/it sleeps”
ru.bieu “he/she/it begins, starts”
har.mai “gray”
har.mual “on/from the gray one”
jiäy “he/she/it stays”
jäi “he/she/it stayed”
ko.di “home”
kois “at home”
In practice, knowing about diphthongs and triphthongs won’t be of much importance to you if your goal is only to use Karelian, rather than study it linguistically. The word “aortic” wouldn’t really be pronounced all that differently if it only had two syllables [eiour.tic]. However, it can come in handy when trying to understand the language as a whole, as well as to make the smoothness of your speech sound more natural.
If you speak Finnish, you’ll notice that for cognates which contain a long vowel in Finnish, the Karelian word contains a diphthong. There is a regular rule that can help you determine which Karelian diphthong will be in the Finnish long vowel’s place. This will be discussed in a future post. The only long vowels allowed in Livvi Karelian are “ii, uu, and yy”. Other dialects allow even fewer long vowels.
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If you have any requests as to what my posts contain more or less of, please feel free to message me or reply to any of my posts! At the moment my life is pretty busy, so I’m lucky when I have to write a post of any kind, regardless of its content, but based on your feedback I can write future posts differently or update my old posts! Passibo, gu luvit! “Thanks for reading!”
The only vowels that can occur long in Livvi Karelian are “i, u, and y”.
For examples on how to use length and what it sounds like, check out these videos about Finnish. It functions in Karelian the exact same way:
https://youtu.be/1msI1kEnR18
https://youtu.be/4XnYfwpX3TQ?t=1m1s
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Aspiration:
In English, the sounds p, t, and k are often pronounced with a puff of air, called aspiration. Say the words “pat”, “top”, and “cat” with your hand in front of your mouth. You will feel a puff of air. In Karelian, there is no aspiration. Try saying the words above without the puff of air. Practice repeating them with your hand in front of your mouth until you feel as little air as possible.
More about palatalization:
Palatalization happens occasionally in places where it is not marked with an apostrophe (’). Speakers of Finnish may notice some of these instances, such as when a word in Livvi Karelian contains a double consonant where the corresponding Finnish word has a single consonant followed by “j”. There are other causes of palatalization as well, which I will cover in a later post.
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Now that you know how the letters should be pronounced, try practicing yourself! The following is an excerpt from p. 9 of Tiedoiniekan hattu “Moomin and the Magic Hat” by Tove Jansson (translated by Natalja Sinitskaja):
“Erähänny keväthuondeksennu nelländel čuasul Muuminotkon piäl lendi enzimäine kägöi. Se istavui Muumitaloin sinizele levole da kukui kaheksa kerdua -- vähästy käheittäjen, sendäh ku kevät vaste vie algavui.
Sit se lendi ielleh päivännouzupuoleh.
Muumipeigoi havačui da hätken virui lageh kaččojen da miettijen, kus häi on. Häi magai sada yödy da sada päiviä, unet vie pyörittih hänes ymäbri da tahtottih kiškuo hänen järilleh omih mualoih.“
I don’t have the English version of the book, so the following is my own translation, as close to word for word as possible:
“One spring morning at 4 o’clock over Moomin Valley flew the first cuckoo. It sat itself onto the Moomin House’s blue roof and cuckooed eight times -- a little hoarsely, since spring had just begun.
Then it flew again to the east.
Moomin troll awoke and for a long time lay stretched out looking at and thinking about where he is. He slept one hundred nights and one hundred days, dreams still spun around inside him and wanted pull him back into their own lands“
I'm a Master's student in Finland. I study linguistics and Karelian language and culture. I've studied White Sea, Olonets, and Tver Karelian (vienan-, livvin- da tverinkarjala). This blog will be a source of information about the Karelian language in English. I'll also include English translations of Karelian texts. Please feel free to contact me with any questions, comments, or requests. However, I'm currently working on my MA thesis (Compound Words in Livvi Karelian Newspapers), so I can't guarantee how quickly I’ll respond. But I'll do what I can!
