read a comment on the hotd reddit couple years back where someone claimed that in aemmas situation irl ye olde doctors wouldve used tongs to crush and remove the baby, killing it but hopefully saving aemmas life. every once and while i remember it and go on a little rabbithole looking for a source. i havent found anything abt that Exact thing happening but i have read about procedures similar. including descriptions of d&cs being preformed in the 2nd century. thats crazy!!! not often successfully (infection. perforation.), but still! they had the knowledge and the tools to do it!
but what i find just as interesting is these old physicians attitudes on abortion. pliny the elder (23-79 ce) condemning abortion and the people who help with them. and then going on to painstakingly catalog every abortifacient and contraceptive, superstition, folklore, ect. that he could find. and he opposed abortion on a legal ground not necessarily a moral one, that abortion was a crime against the babys father cause if its male it couldve inherited. from what ive read this seems to be the common roman thought. (i also find non christian views on abortion soo interesting. here its a crime not a sin!)
or that the hippocratic oath* contains a line about not preforming abortions when hippocrates himself prescribed abortions and also cataloged abortion methods.
*- not written by hippocrates himself. i also read an argument that this line could be referring to that in this time doctors and midwives where separate professions and midwives handled pregnancy/childbirth/abortion. not necessarily doctors.
these bits of a very interesting article i read on medieval views of contraception and abortion which kinda shocked me. i expected it to be much harsher. (link)
which does bring me back around to that reddit comment about aemma. op made a long and well written post about it (i should try and find it again…) and i remember one of the things they said is while germ does very good research on some parts of his story… other parts he just abandons. pregnancy and childbirth being one of them. no suprise here, theres endless posts about how when germ needs a woman to leave the story he goes for ole reliable. kill her in childbirth. while, yes, pregnancy and childbirth is very risky (even today), i do think it happens a little more than statistically probable in asoiaf.
which leads me to a tangentially nebulously related question*, how much of a hold does the faith of the seven have over the citadel/the maesters? and i dont mean in like, a ~maester conspiracy~ way.
*-(these questions may be because im only halfway through the asoft books and i havent touched them in over a year. be nice if im being stupid.)
i mean more in a, ‘medical/scientific research blocked by the church. stem cells and birth control is a sin’ way. ive talked about this before, regarding baelon. after his death hes given an autopsy, just like that. no fanfare or argument. irl the church (in whichever form) outlawed autopsies and it took a very long time for us to start doing them again. especially on someone You Know and not just a random executed criminal youre dissecting for research. similarly with moon tea/tansy. while theres a certain low level hushhush shame, it doesnt seem to have the wider ‘youre killing a baby’ shame attached to it like irl abortion does*.
*- i did go and wikiwarrior double check this and yes, further reading wouldve answered some of my questions but also not really because this was said by the leader of a fringe radical sect of the seven. you wouldnt take what a mormon says about christianity to be fact.
so does the faith not care about these things? does our stand in for the catholic church not try and execute total body and mind control over its flock? or do they just have no sway over these kind of medical decisions/the maesters? if they didnt youd think wed see less concerningly young mothers. lesser/no moral stigma around abortion (unless westeros is rome and its a crime against the father, which i could see), abortions preformed for medical reasons and an understanding, even back then, that you cant get a tween pregnant and expect it to go well. but we have aemma pregnant at 13-14(? 15 at oldest), maesters saying they know its dangerous but not doing anything about it. why. at this point viserys is the son of a second son. why does he have to get his wife pregnant as soon as physically possible.