Utopia is The Best Form of Commonwealth

Thomas More | Author | Philosopher | Hellenist | Peter Giles is the only reason that I write anything | Sleep? Me? Never! |

[lessmonsters-moregoodsocieties]

Utopia has Marriage figured Out!

the ways that people get married in Utopia are some of the best that I’ve ever heard of.  @remarkable-hythloday was telling @peter-giles and I about how their institution of marriage is structured over there, and I was blown away.  Women do not marry until they are 18, and men until they are 22, and if they are ever caught having relations before then, they are barred from marriage forever (unless the ruler lets them, anyways)!  This is done, apparently, so that they appreciate being with one spouse for their whole lives more than they would if they were allowed to have sex whenever they wanted.  And the way that they date? Well the bride is taken to the groom’s room *naked* by a responsible woman, and the man does the same!  This is done so that neither can hide something from the other, that could ruin the wedding night. Quite the custom if you ask me!

It may seem odd, but when you consider that their marriages can’t be dissolved? it makes a lot more sense.  They only way that a Utopian marriage is dissolved is by death or adultery, or some other horrible act.  And, in that case, the offender is never allowed to remarry!  But, you can’t divorce a woman simply because her body becomes disfigured, which seems like a good idea to me.  Why should men be allowed to leave woman when she needs his support the most?  And, adultery is the only crime that has prescribed punishments.  On the first offence, they are forced to hard labour, and the victims can remarry (unless they choose to pity the undeserving party), and on the second offence, they are killed.  All other laws, though, are punished on a case by case basis.

[seawardsiward]

Hold on, hold on! This can’t be a real thing!  You’re just making this up to trick us into reading your philosophies because you can’t sell a proper book!

[remarkable-hythloday]

Quite the contrary, Siward! I have been to this Utopia myself, and all of what my friend recounts is true!

[lessmonsters-moregoodsocieties]

My dear Siward, do you really think that I would something like that?  I mean come on, if I was trying to make this a falsehood, then I would hide little jokes in it! Ones that only really smart people would get, like calling the country something like No-Place!  Or even just Good-Place!  I understand your caution, but just ask Hythloday himself! Shoot him a DM and see what he has to say for himself!

[lessmonsters-moregoodsocieties]

Utopia has Marriage figured Out!

the ways that people get married in Utopia are some of the best that I’ve ever heard of.  @remarkable-hythloday was telling @peter-giles and I about how their institution of marriage is structured over there, and I was blown away.  Women do not marry until they are 18, and men until they are 22, and if they are ever caught having relations before then, they are barred from marriage forever (unless the ruler lets them, anyways)!  This is done, apparently, so that they appreciate being with one spouse for their whole lives more than they would if they were allowed to have sex whenever they wanted.  And the way that they date? Well the bride is taken to the groom’s room *naked* by a responsible woman, and the man does the same!  This is done so that neither can hide something from the other, that could ruin the wedding night. Quite the custom if you ask me!

It may seem odd, but when you consider that their marriages can’t be dissolved? it makes a lot more sense.  They only way that a Utopian marriage is dissolved is by death or adultery, or some other horrible act.  And, in that case, the offender is never allowed to remarry!  But, you can’t divorce a woman simply because her body becomes disfigured, which seems like a good idea to me.  Why should men be allowed to leave woman when she needs his support the most?  And, adultery is the only crime that has prescribed punishments.  On the first offence, they are forced to hard labour, and the victims can remarry (unless they choose to pity the undeserving party), and on the second offence, they are killed.  All other laws, though, are punished on a case by case basis.

[lessmonsters-moregoodsocieties]

Gold is a Social Construct and the Utopians can tell you why!

You know, it never occurred to me how much the worth of gold is fabricated, but after meeting @remarkable-hythloday and hearing about Utopia, you would think that we were foolish for attaching our personal values to it!  In Utopia, they give gold and jewels to children to play with! it has almost no monetary value there, they even use it to eat and drink out of, and for chamber pots!  Raphael even told me that they dress their slaves in gold.  So you can imagine their surprise when ambassadors came to meet them, all dressed in finery and silk.  We would have given them respect based off of that alone, but the Utopians were embarrassed for these men!  they greeted the lowest of the men as the highest of lords, and really bruised a few egos.  I wish I had been there to see it!  It’s funny the amount of value that we, as a society, have attached to a lump of metal.  It’s really got no inherent value, after all.  Perhaps we ought to rethink it more…

[seawardsiward]

Wait a minute? Slavery in a Utopia? Isn’t that a bit contradictory?

[lessmonsters-moregoodsocieties]

Ah but it is not like the slavery we have seen before.  POWs are not considered slaves, in fact, unless the Utopians themselves are the ones who captured them.  And it is not a hereditary form of slavery, for the children of slaves are free men and women. And the only ones who they treat harshly are those who break serious laws, which, when you consider their especially good education, isn’t all that unreasonable.  How could act so horribly when you live in such a good place!  Hythloday even told me of slaves who are there of their own accord! And these ones are free to leave at any time (empty-handed, of course).

[lessmonsters-moregoodsocieties]

Gold is a Social Construct and the Utopians can tell you why!

You know, it never occurred to me how much the worth of gold is fabricated, but after meeting @remarkable-hythloday and hearing about Utopia, you would think that we were foolish for attaching our personal values to it!  In Utopia, they give gold and jewels to children to play with! it has almost no monetary value there, they even use it to eat and drink out of, and for chamber pots!  Raphael even told me that they dress their slaves in gold.  So you can imagine their surprise when ambassadors came to meet them, all dressed in finery and silk.  We would have given them respect based off of that alone, but the Utopians were embarrassed for these men!  they greeted the lowest of the men as the highest of lords, and really bruised a few egos.  I wish I had been there to see it!  It’s funny the amount of value that we, as a society, have attached to a lump of metal.  It’s really got no inherent value, after all.  Perhaps we ought to rethink it more...

[lessmonsters-moregoodsocieties]

@remarkable-hythloday provided me with this lovely map of Utopia! You can see how the tower guarding that straight there would be great against any incoming ships, and Raphael was telling about how complicated the straits are.  Apparently only the Utopians themselves know about it.  Even with all of the ports around the edge its extremely easy for the to defend everything, hence why they have yet to be conquered (besides the time when Utopus founded the place of course).  All of the 54 cities on the island are exactly the same, apparently, in language, custom, laws, and institutions! And every year they all send three reps to the capital to discuss problems that affect them all.  And, no matter what the issue, they are all peaceful cities!   Of course, this is because they do not consider themselves to be the owners of the land.  they think of themselves more as tenant-farmers than landlords.  In fact, they take turns going out and living on the farms, rotating so that everyone gets a chance to work the land.  If they like it, then they can even stay!  Each of the houses are watched over by a single couple, and there are two slaves to each house, and 40 citizens, 20 of whom do the rotating.  Everything that they far and grow seems perfect, and any surplus they grow is given to their neighbours.  They get everything they can’t grow themselves from abroad as well.  It really seems like a way better way to run an economy.

[lessmonsters-moregoodsocieties]

Hythloday Found the Best Government and yes, it IS better than ours.

On my recent trip to Antwerp, my friend @peter-giles introduced to one of the most fascinating men I’ve ever met.  I had though that he was a sailor of some kind, but I was apparently far off the mark, because he is so much more.  @remarkable-hythloday turned out to be quite the adventuring type, and has quite a bit to say about his recent travels to Utopia.  Because he never posts on his own blog, I figured I would let you all know about this land he’s found.  

The man knows that Seneca and Cicero are the only valuable Romans, and so speaks far more Greek, and has devoted himself to the study of it, as I have. And, like Odysseus, he’s travelled far and wide, and found governments that are even worse than ours is.  He also, however, found one that far surpasses ours, in Utopia.

According to him, they have almost no laws and everyone is treated as equals, and shares nearly everything.  Of course, he thinks that this is because no personal property is the quickest way to true equality, and I am inclined to believe him.  I had though that it seemed contrary, but he made a very good explanation against me, and I found myself convinced.  We talked at some length about the politics of this, and it took me forever to get him to talk about the actual island, besides its laws (or lack thereof).

[peter-giles]

I’ve always wondered why @remarkable-hythloday doesn’t go into government of some kind.  With everything that’s he’s seen, any leader should consider themselves grateful to have him on their team.

[remarkable-hythloday]

@peter-giles we’ve had this discussion before, and as Plato remarks, a wise man should never take on a government role.  There is a folly in man that they cannot cure, and they are cursed to do the wise thing while they watch everyone else suffer.  And @lessmonsters-moresocieties, as for the private property issue, it’s impossible for everyone to be happy in a world that is built on the monetary value of things.  

[lessmonsters-moregoodsocieties]

you make an interesting point, friend, but I’m sure that @peter-giles will have more to say.  He’s a bit harder to persuade

[lessmonsters-moregoodsocieties]

Hythloday Found the Best Government and yes, it IS better than ours.

On my recent trip to Antwerp, my friend @peter-giles introduced to one of the most fascinating men I’ve ever met.  I had though that he was a sailor of some kind, but I was apparently far off the mark, because he is so much more.  @remarkable-hythloday turned out to be quite the adventuring type, and has quite a bit to say about his recent travels to Utopia.  Because he never posts on his own blog, I figured I would let you all know about this land he’s found.  

The man knows that Seneca and Cicero are the only valuable Romans, and so speaks far more Greek, and has devoted himself to the study of it, as I have. And, like Odysseus, he’s travelled far and wide, and found governments that are even worse than ours is.  He also, however, found one that far surpasses ours, in Utopia.

According to him, they have almost no laws and everyone is treated as equals, and shares nearly everything.  Of course, he thinks that this is because no personal property is the quickest way to true equality, and I am inclined to believe him.  I had though that it seemed contrary, but he made a very good explanation against me, and I found myself convinced.  We talked at some length about the politics of this, and it took me forever to get him to talk about the actual island, besides its laws (or lack thereof).