Pain

Pain

[letmetakethesuffering]

Sigh… smokes a cigarette and then tears it open so I can squish the spongey part

[letmetakethesuffering]

@skeleton-bat why did you block me? I thought you accepted all lesbians? Lesboys exist, why are you pretending this one doesn’t?

You responded to my first post, where I clearly make it known I am one of the identities you are defending. My opinions on the larger discourse are closer than you realize yet you blocked me because I defended my fellow lesbians? For me defending my fellow genderqueer?

Let’s both be honest, you instant blocked me because i prove your “cause” isn’t the true reason you’re fighting so hard. You’re having fun cry bullying Ant, a cis bi man unrelated to the original discourse, yet you block me the second I speak.

I am an “exclusionist” yet you have ACTIVELY EXCLUDED ME FROM THE EQUATION. You can grandstand as much as you want but your actions are louder than words.

[letmetakethesuffering]

The funniest part is like… I get what Skeleton-bat was initially trying to say. I was actually going to start defending them and kinda try to give some more nuance to the other parties since, yknow, I’m what’s being fucking argued about.

And then I read the whole argument between @skeleton-bat and @thetepes . And then it became more and more clear this wasn’t about protecting lesboys or mspec lesbians anymore, even if that’s what Skeleton-bat still thinks it’s about. Even if that was the intention. This became about protecting their ego. So oops there goes any nuance, there goes any basic empathy.

Thank you skeleton-bat for the supportive reblogs and moral grandstanding and virtue signaling, that sure will do anything other than boost your own ego and signal others how immature you are when it comes to actual homophobia and lesbophobia. The constant tagging surely will show you’re an alllyyyyy.

[thetepes]

I personally want to apologize if I was uncouth or incorrect with any of my statements. In the initial disagreement I really tried to do my best to say it wasn't my place to talk about the lesbian community and their finer points. I'm not a lesbian, I've never been a lesbian. I did my best to only say what my lesbian friends, not just Britt and Sai, have told me. I fully accept that I may have been wrong with some of what I said and I apologize sincerely for any mishandling on my part.

I hopefully expressed my discomfort as being seen as being excluded by Lesbians. I didn't appreciate how they were using my identity to hurt my friends and others. I agree there is so much nuance in identity and it's not as simple as woman and man, but I feel like Bats was calling more than one group of people men who don't identify as that and also calling people who identify as women men.

I didn't get to really express any of this the first time we had an interaction because they took advantage of my good faith to hurt me. I told them repeatedly I had trauma around engagements like this and that they were making me uncomfortable and they used that against me. I made the mistake of being vulnerable to try to express to someone I thought was a good person they were hurting others.

Again, I am sorry if I overstepped. I hope I represented my points well and I like your horse avatar.

[letmetakethesuffering]

Hey no problem, I didn’t see any overstepping and like you said, any opinions you did have were informed by lesbians within your circles. And like I said, I read the entirety of your conversations. It was so obvious you were trying to stay in your lane and only let said opinions out once boundaries and patience was repeatedly pushed.

Like I tried saying to skeleton-bat, their arguments were utter cow shit. Lesbians do exist in the categories they listed (Intersex, nonbinary, definitely butch) but using these categories to INHERENTLY describe maleness within, lesbian or not, is fucking stretching it.

And while a few of the things said (particularly from Sai) were kinda making me uncomfortable, it wasn’t as horrible or queerphobic as bat is making it out to be. From what I know of Sai, she’s an old school gay who barely understands it pronouns, you think she’s gonna understand the nuances of Lesboys? 😅

I’ve also tried saying this- if you’re going to be arguing in simple terms and without nuance, do not fault for others to be replying in simple terms and without nuance. If you say “lesbians can like like men” without specifying you’re talking about a large group of people with various configurations of gender who are both self indentified lesbians but also some flavor of maleness in their indentity, the AVERAGE person is going to understand you as “any women who likes women likes men” (as binary as possible because our societal gender norms are still binary)

Hell, If I hear you talking about men and men adjacent, I’m gonna assume you’re talking about cis and trans men. Men adjacent again is…. Really in the grey zone here.

I care about my identity, yes. I will defend it and sometimes there are things said by cis lesbians or people who aren’t lesbians at all that hurt or are purposely exclusionary. This was not one of them. Britt especially was charitable and inclusionary in her responses. Sai is very forward, anyone within a 2000 mile radius knows this. You particularly I feel shitty for cuz you obviously didn’t want a part of this in the first place.

The lies bat is pushing about you, about how they treated you is complete malarkey. In the long run, lesbian discourse about lesboys and who gets to say what slur doesn’t matter if we’re causing real ass damage over it. Arguing with strangers on the internet isn’t activism, I had to learn that the hard way.

Real bigots won’t care if cis lesbians accept me or if I count as a lesbian or whatever, they’re going to hurt both of us the same. And real bullies will care more for their rhetoric than actual victims.

Thanks! I like your icon? Of a grandma thing??????

[thetepes]

I really appreciate you sticking up for me, by the way. I know it's...not exactly mature of me to have let myself get triggered in an online argument.

I hope one day we can have a more nuanced discussion in the space about gender and sexuality, I think it would help a lot of people feel more comfortable knowing there are people out here willing to fight for them? I know it would have done baby me a lot of good.

I couldn't agree more. Online arguments aren't activism, especially when the terms are so vague. I think Bat did that on purpose, but maybe I'm a cynic.

It's turbo granny from dandandan? I don't actually watch it myself, but I was helping some kids deal with someone online and they said I reminded them of her so I changed my profile picture.

[letmetakethesuffering]

Hey man, you don’t have to apologize for being triggered. It’s hard to handle, let alone control when or how you’re triggered.

Bats legit doesn’t care. When an actual “male adjacent” lesbian comes up to them to give them an actual informed opinion, they block and shrivel up. What a twit.

That funny 😂

[letmetakethesuffering]

The funniest part is like… I get what Skeleton-bat was initially trying to say. I was actually going to start defending them and kinda try to give some more nuance to the other parties since, yknow, I’m what’s being fucking argued about.

And then I read the whole argument between @skeleton-bat and @thetepes . And then it became more and more clear this wasn’t about protecting lesboys or mspec lesbians anymore, even if that’s what Skeleton-bat still thinks it’s about. Even if that was the intention. This became about protecting their ego. So oops there goes any nuance, there goes any basic empathy.

Thank you skeleton-bat for the supportive reblogs and moral grandstanding and virtue signaling, that sure will do anything other than boost your own ego and signal others how immature you are when it comes to actual homophobia and lesbophobia. The constant tagging surely will show you’re an alllyyyyy.

[thetepes]

I personally want to apologize if I was uncouth or incorrect with any of my statements. In the initial disagreement I really tried to do my best to say it wasn't my place to talk about the lesbian community and their finer points. I'm not a lesbian, I've never been a lesbian. I did my best to only say what my lesbian friends, not just Britt and Sai, have told me. I fully accept that I may have been wrong with some of what I said and I apologize sincerely for any mishandling on my part.

I hopefully expressed my discomfort as being seen as being excluded by Lesbians. I didn't appreciate how they were using my identity to hurt my friends and others. I agree there is so much nuance in identity and it's not as simple as woman and man, but I feel like Bats was calling more than one group of people men who don't identify as that and also calling people who identify as women men.

I didn't get to really express any of this the first time we had an interaction because they took advantage of my good faith to hurt me. I told them repeatedly I had trauma around engagements like this and that they were making me uncomfortable and they used that against me. I made the mistake of being vulnerable to try to express to someone I thought was a good person they were hurting others.

Again, I am sorry if I overstepped. I hope I represented my points well and I like your horse avatar.

[letmetakethesuffering]

Hey no problem, I didn’t see any overstepping and like you said, any opinions you did have were informed by lesbians within your circles. And like I said, I read the entirety of your conversations. It was so obvious you were trying to stay in your lane and only let said opinions out once boundaries and patience was repeatedly pushed.

Like I tried saying to skeleton-bat, their arguments were utter cow shit. Lesbians do exist in the categories they listed (Intersex, nonbinary, definitely butch) but using these categories to INHERENTLY describe maleness within, lesbian or not, is fucking stretching it.

And while a few of the things said (particularly from Sai) were kinda making me uncomfortable, it wasn’t as horrible or queerphobic as bat is making it out to be. From what I know of Sai, she’s an old school gay who barely understands it pronouns, you think she’s gonna understand the nuances of Lesboys? 😅

I’ve also tried saying this- if you’re going to be arguing in simple terms and without nuance, do not fault for others to be replying in simple terms and without nuance. If you say “lesbians can like like men” without specifying you’re talking about a large group of people with various configurations of gender who are both self indentified lesbians but also some flavor of maleness in their indentity, the AVERAGE person is going to understand you as “any women who likes women likes men” (as binary as possible because our societal gender norms are still binary)

Hell, If I hear you talking about men and men adjacent, I’m gonna assume you’re talking about cis and trans men. Men adjacent again is…. Really in the grey zone here.

I care about my identity, yes. I will defend it and sometimes there are things said by cis lesbians or people who aren’t lesbians at all that hurt or are purposely exclusionary. This was not one of them. Britt especially was charitable and inclusionary in her responses. Sai is very forward, anyone within a 2000 mile radius knows this. You particularly I feel shitty for cuz you obviously didn’t want a part of this in the first place.

The lies bat is pushing about you, about how they treated you is complete malarkey. In the long run, lesbian discourse about lesboys and who gets to say what slur doesn’t matter if we’re causing real ass damage over it. Arguing with strangers on the internet isn’t activism, I had to learn that the hard way.

Real bigots won’t care if cis lesbians accept me or if I count as a lesbian or whatever, they’re going to hurt both of us the same. And real bullies will care more for their rhetoric than actual victims.

Thanks! I like your icon? Of a grandma thing??????

[letmetakethesuffering]

The funniest part is like… I get what Skeleton-bat was initially trying to say. I was actually going to start defending them and kinda try to give some more nuance to the other parties since, yknow, I’m what’s being fucking argued about.

And then I read the whole argument between @skeleton-bat and @thetepes . And then it became more and more clear this wasn’t about protecting lesboys or mspec lesbians anymore, even if that’s what Skeleton-bat still thinks it’s about. Even if that was the intention. This became about protecting their ego. So oops there goes any nuance, there goes any basic empathy.

Thank you skeleton-bat for the supportive reblogs and moral grandstanding and virtue signaling, that sure will do anything other than boost your own ego and signal others how immature you are when it comes to actual homophobia and lesbophobia. The constant tagging surely will show you’re an alllyyyyy.

[letmetakethesuffering]

Dumb bitch blocked me so I’ll post here:

I LITERALLY TOLD YOU I AM A LESBOI, I HAVE A COMPLEX SITUATION WITH MY GENDER AND SEXUALITY. I ALREADY TOLD YOU MY IDENTITY AND PEOPLE LIKE MINE’S INDENTITY IS CONTESTED AND REQUIRES NUANCE.

Did you even read my tags? Lesbians exist in all these categories but I have a huge fucking problem with you calling these categories man or man adjacent and I have an even BIGGER problem with you using my identity to fuck people over.

Are intersex lesbians who indentify 100% as a woman "men/men adjacent"?

Is nonbinary just fucking half boy half girl to you?

We calling butches men now?

Funny you're calling me exclusionist when I'm literally one of the identities you have failed to defend. Sorry that I don’t want the person “sticking up for me” or anyone like me to be a manipulative, whining, triggering peice of shit?

Lesbois and nonbinary lesbians aren’t this secret underground underdogs who need defending, we know our shit an we rock our shit. What we’re not gonna do is attack random ass bitches and we’re not going to let someone WHOS NOT EVEN A LESBIAN IN ANY CAPACITY attack our lesbian sisters who might not understand us.

This not to mention that the majority of this DOESNT EVEN MATTER. PEOPLE HATE YOU FOR BULLYING SEVERAL PEOPLE AND TRIGGERING A VICTIM.

If your version of inclusion means bullying, manipulating and swinging without thought, I don’t wanna be included.

[skeleton-bat]

Me saying men lesbians exist is not me saying that you are a man oh my god that utter leap in logic is lily level

[letmetakethesuffering]

You literally listed intersex, nonbinary and butch as examples following the statement that Lesbians are attracted to men.

The fucking implications. Think of the implications before you open your wide fucking maw for shit you don’t understand

[skeleton-bat]

Anyways I'm sorry your fefes get hurt by the fact lesbois exist u_u

[letmetakethesuffering]

Hi, Lesboi here. Fuck off. You did diddly fuck squat. You don’t speak for me and you don’t speak for others like me. Your arguments were dumb as shit and actively gave me secondhand embarrassment. If you want to actually fight for my rights, you don’t harass other lesbians who had a whole different discussion about being harassed and you don’t harass other people to the point of fucking triggering a grooming victim.

Thanks for the attempt but honestly you did more harm to the public perception of my identity than anything said by the people against you. I read the ENTIRETY of everything. Your arguments against Britts-galaxy-brain, Thetepes, and purpledemonlilyposting was total shit, even if it was in the right spirit.

Yes, we exist. We don’t need someone who IS NOT A LESBIAN NOR A MASC LESBIAN to fight our own fights. Nor are you even HELPING WHO YOU SAY YOU ARE. No masc lesbian is looking at this and thinking “oh thank you random fuck nugget for weaponizing my already contested identity that people need nuance to understand and using it to abuse several people without the nuance at all”

You proved this wasn’t about lesbianism the moment you started infantilizing and publically humiliating Thetepes

Do everyone a favor, shut the fuck up, go back in your lane and learn something called Accountability and responsible activism.